hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Yeah, within the "recaps" at the end of the show, there are many whose paths haven't changed; in fact, there was one young man who was killed shortly after. But, there are a handful where it seems, at least, they saw the light.
Now, how many violent, high risk altercations do police officers have every year? I'd imagine the majority of those end peacefully. Sometimes the officers have no choice, and yes, sometimes the officers make mistakes and a tragedy occurs. You are dealing with high risk, high stress situations; human error will play a factor. But unfortunately that doesn't fit into a inflammatory narrative.
We all have reactions to, and most of us have opinions with regard to the many various killings that are the subject of all the numerous reports we've read and seemingly endless threads we posted on here. But maybe instead of simply responding, perhaps it is time to start asking the right question, some of the answers to which might lead to solutions. Good detective work, good science, good research, all start with asking the right questions. So let's see some good questions that might lead to some useful answers as to how to lessen all the killing going on, not just in Dallas, not just in the US, but all over.
Here's the question that came to my mind today:
If black people in America were not being killed without reason by some (emphasis some) law enforcement officers or killed when other measures could have been taken first, would the tragic shooting deaths of five police officers who we're just doing their job in Dallas on 7/7/16 have occurred? (Don't read between the lines. I'm just asking the question.)
We all have reactions to, and most of us have opinions with regard to the many various killings that are the subject of all the numerous reports we've read and seemingly endless threads we posted on here. But maybe instead of simply responding, perhaps it is time to start asking the right question, some of the answers to which might lead to solutions. Good detective work, good science, good research, all start with asking the right questions. So let's see some good questions that might lead to some useful answers as to how to lessen all the killing going on, not just in Dallas, not just in the US, but all over.
Here's the question that came to my mind today:
If black people in America were not being killed without reason by some (emphasis some) law enforcement officers or killed when other measures could have been taken first, would the tragic shooting deaths of five police officers who we're just doing their job in Dallas on 7/7/16 have occurred? (Don't read between the lines. I'm just asking the question.)
I think so.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
because when it comes down to it, we humans are just like every other predator on this planet. we prey on the weak and vulnerable and we pretend we above animalistic urges we try so hard to repress. we like to think were above the actions of the rest of the animal kingdom we label savage, barbaric, horrifying. but the way I see it, we are so much worse. I like to think we know better, but deep down I know we are a lost cause. in the west we offer condolences when our brethren in paris or nice or London become the victims of so called terrorism yet when the same actions happen in Istanbul or we justify it in our minds as somehow understandable afterall thats what those countries are like, right? theyre not like us, right? somehow we cant seem to identify with every other human on the planet, just a select few. I don't know why that is, but I see it as a massive liability. I see our collective amnesia about our shared history as a liability too. our so called democratic governments that we allegedly elect to act in our names continually act in a manner that is detrimental to not only the people who elected them but to the rest of the planet as well and quite possibly the universe. we get so excited when a new planet is discovered that we may one colonise as if we have this desperate need to leave this one and fuck up another. I see capitalism as both the carrot dangled in front of the nose of the donkeys and as a chance for so much good yet failing to deliver on the promise. I see monarchy as the most ridiculous form of governance in the history of mankind and I see theocracies as a blight on the soul of all humanity. if history has shown us anything it is that mankind cannot get along.. we never have. the first time a human picked up a weapon and whacked his mate over head for what was no doubt a stupid and probably selfish reason was the moment the race of man was doomed. we are a violent species. we will continue to be a violent species and no amount of soul searching or logical thinking will change that. we are selfish, we are loud, we are destructive, we are our own worst enemy, we are this planets worse enemy. we are so myopic that when we speak of the destruction of the planet what we are really trying to speak of is the extinction of the human species yet we can not bring ourselves to say that lest we acknowledge our own place in that destruction.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
because when it comes down to it, we humans are just like every other predator on this planet. we prey on the weak and vulnerable and we pretend we above animalistic urges we try so hard to repress. we like to think were above the actions of the rest of the animal kingdom we label savage, barbaric, horrifying. but the way I see it, we are so much worse. I like to think we know better, but deep down I know we are a lost cause. in the west we offer condolences when our brethren in paris or nice or London become the victims of so called terrorism yet when the same actions happen in Istanbul or we justify it in our minds as somehow understandable afterall thats what those countries are like, right? theyre not like us, right? somehow we cant seem to identify with every other human on the planet, just a select few. I don't know why that is, but I see it as a massive liability. I see our collective amnesia about our shared history as a liability too. our so called democratic governments that we allegedly elect to act in our names continually act in a manner that is detrimental to not only the people who elected them but to the rest of the planet as well and quite possibly the universe. we get so excited when a new planet is discovered that we may one colonise as if we have this desperate need to leave this one and fuck up another. I see capitalism as both the carrot dangled in front of the nose of the donkeys and as a chance for so much good yet failing to deliver on the promise. I see monarchy as the most ridiculous form of governance in the history of mankind and I see theocracies as a blight on the soul of all humanity. if history has shown us anything it is that mankind cannot get along.. we never have. the first time a human picked up a weapon and whacked his mate over head for what was no doubt a stupid and probably selfish reason was the moment the race of man was doomed. we are a violent species. we will continue to be a violent species and no amount of soul searching or logical thinking will change that. we are selfish, we are loud, we are destructive, we are our own worst enemy, we are this planets worse enemy. we are so myopic that when we speak of the destruction of the planet what we are really trying to speak of is the extinction of the human species yet we can not bring ourselves to say that lest we acknowledge our own place in that destruction.
because when it comes down to it, we humans are just like every other predator on this planet. we prey on the weak and vulnerable and we pretend we above animalistic urges we try so hard to repress. we like to think were above the actions of the rest of the animal kingdom we label savage, barbaric, horrifying. but the way I see it, we are so much worse. I like to think we know better, but deep down I know we are a lost cause. in the west we offer condolences when our brethren in paris or nice or London become the victims of so called terrorism yet when the same actions happen in Istanbul or we justify it in our minds as somehow understandable afterall thats what those countries are like, right? theyre not like us, right? somehow we cant seem to identify with every other human on the planet, just a select few. I don't know why that is, but I see it as a massive liability. I see our collective amnesia about our shared history as a liability too. our so called democratic governments that we allegedly elect to act in our names continually act in a manner that is detrimental to not only the people who elected them but to the rest of the planet as well and quite possibly the universe. we get so excited when a new planet is discovered that we may one colonise as if we have this desperate need to leave this one and fuck up another. I see capitalism as both the carrot dangled in front of the nose of the donkeys and as a chance for so much good yet failing to deliver on the promise. I see monarchy as the most ridiculous form of governance in the history of mankind and I see theocracies as a blight on the soul of all humanity. if history has shown us anything it is that mankind cannot get along.. we never have. the first time a human picked up a weapon and whacked his mate over head for what was no doubt a stupid and probably selfish reason was the moment the race of man was doomed. we are a violent species. we will continue to be a violent species and no amount of soul searching or logical thinking will change that. we are selfish, we are loud, we are destructive, we are our own worst enemy, we are this planets worse enemy. we are so myopic that when we speak of the destruction of the planet what we are really trying to speak of is the extinction of the human species yet we can not bring ourselves to say that lest we acknowledge our own place in that destruction.
Some good points, but I disagree on one. I think we get along better now than at any other point in human history.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,538
because when it comes down to it, we humans are just like every other predator on this planet. we prey on the weak and vulnerable and we pretend we above animalistic urges we try so hard to repress. we like to think were above the actions of the rest of the animal kingdom we label savage, barbaric, horrifying. but the way I see it, we are so much worse. I like to think we know better, but deep down I know we are a lost cause. in the west we offer condolences when our brethren in paris or nice or London become the victims of so called terrorism yet when the same actions happen in Istanbul or we justify it in our minds as somehow understandable afterall thats what those countries are like, right? theyre not like us, right? somehow we cant seem to identify with every other human on the planet, just a select few. I don't know why that is, but I see it as a massive liability. I see our collective amnesia about our shared history as a liability too. our so called democratic governments that we allegedly elect to act in our names continually act in a manner that is detrimental to not only the people who elected them but to the rest of the planet as well and quite possibly the universe. we get so excited when a new planet is discovered that we may one colonise as if we have this desperate need to leave this one and fuck up another. I see capitalism as both the carrot dangled in front of the nose of the donkeys and as a chance for so much good yet failing to deliver on the promise. I see monarchy as the most ridiculous form of governance in the history of mankind and I see theocracies as a blight on the soul of all humanity. if history has shown us anything it is that mankind cannot get along.. we never have. the first time a human picked up a weapon and whacked his mate over head for what was no doubt a stupid and probably selfish reason was the moment the race of man was doomed. we are a violent species. we will continue to be a violent species and no amount of soul searching or logical thinking will change that. we are selfish, we are loud, we are destructive, we are our own worst enemy, we are this planets worse enemy. we are so myopic that when we speak of the destruction of the planet what we are really trying to speak of is the extinction of the human species yet we can not bring ourselves to say that lest we acknowledge our own place in that destruction.
It's not hard to have these feeling and it is difficult to argue against what you say here, Cate, but I will throw out that I read somewhere that at some point in history Japan went through a 700 year period of peace and if that's true, perhaps under the right circumstances we could learn to be peaceful. Yet if we can't or won't use of big brains to figure out how to live in peace then maybe we deserve what we get which is self-annihilation (both through war and through environmental degradation). I keep pushing for the notion that with the right education we are capable of survival and peace.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
"it's in your nature to destroy yourselves" Terminator
May well be? If so, what do we? Use our big brains to learn how not to destroy ourselves and each other and the planet? Just ignore the problem and let us do ourselves in slowly? Hasten the process and kill each other more quickly and fuck up the environment as fast as we can? You know my choice. Call me a fool.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
"it's in your nature to destroy yourselves" Terminator
May well be? If so, what do we? Use our big brains to learn how not to destroy ourselves and each other and the planet? Just ignore the problem and let us do ourselves in slowly? Hasten the process and kill each other more quickly and fuck up the environment as fast as we can? You know my choice. Call me a fool.
not a fool, Brian. I really do have hope that we'll turn things around eventually. I just don't see it in my lifetime. things will have to get immeasurably bad before those in power (or those not in power take the power) lead us down the redemption road. hopefully it's just not too late when it does happen.
new album "Cigarettes" out Fall 2024!
www.headstonesband.com
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,538
"it's in your nature to destroy yourselves" Terminator
May well be? If so, what do we? Use our big brains to learn how not to destroy ourselves and each other and the planet? Just ignore the problem and let us do ourselves in slowly? Hasten the process and kill each other more quickly and fuck up the environment as fast as we can? You know my choice. Call me a fool.
not a fool, Brian. I really do have hope that we'll turn things around eventually. I just don't see it in my lifetime. things will have to get immeasurably bad before those in power (or those not in power take the power) lead us down the redemption road. hopefully it's just not too late when it does happen.
I hope so too, HFD.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
because when it comes down to it, we humans are just like every other predator on this planet. we prey on the weak and vulnerable and we pretend we above animalistic urges we try so hard to repress. we like to think were above the actions of the rest of the animal kingdom we label savage, barbaric, horrifying. but the way I see it, we are so much worse. I like to think we know better, but deep down I know we are a lost cause. in the west we offer condolences when our brethren in paris or nice or London become the victims of so called terrorism yet when the same actions happen in Istanbul or we justify it in our minds as somehow understandable afterall thats what those countries are like, right? theyre not like us, right? somehow we cant seem to identify with every other human on the planet, just a select few. I don't know why that is, but I see it as a massive liability. I see our collective amnesia about our shared history as a liability too. our so called democratic governments that we allegedly elect to act in our names continually act in a manner that is detrimental to not only the people who elected them but to the rest of the planet as well and quite possibly the universe. we get so excited when a new planet is discovered that we may one colonise as if we have this desperate need to leave this one and fuck up another. I see capitalism as both the carrot dangled in front of the nose of the donkeys and as a chance for so much good yet failing to deliver on the promise. I see monarchy as the most ridiculous form of governance in the history of mankind and I see theocracies as a blight on the soul of all humanity. if history has shown us anything it is that mankind cannot get along.. we never have. the first time a human picked up a weapon and whacked his mate over head for what was no doubt a stupid and probably selfish reason was the moment the race of man was doomed. we are a violent species. we will continue to be a violent species and no amount of soul searching or logical thinking will change that. we are selfish, we are loud, we are destructive, we are our own worst enemy, we are this planets worse enemy. we are so myopic that when we speak of the destruction of the planet what we are really trying to speak of is the extinction of the human species yet we can not bring ourselves to say that lest we acknowledge our own place in that destruction.
Some good points, but I disagree on one. I think we get along better now than at any other point in human history.
I disagree.. respectfully.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's not hard to have these feeling and it is difficult to argue against what you say here, Cate, but I will throw out that I read somewhere that at some point in history Japan went through a 700 year period of peace and if that's true, perhaps under the right circumstances we could learn to be peaceful. Yet if we can't or won't use of big brains to figure out how to live in peace then maybe we deserve what we get which is self-annihilation (both through war and through environmental degradation). I keep pushing for the notion that with the right education we are capable of survival and peace.
and I put it to you brian to ask when this period of peace was... and under what circumstances it was established and maintained. 700 years is a frightfully long time for any peace to ensue on this earth... the fact that you've mentioned a country with a history of violence gives me pause.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's not hard to have these feeling and it is difficult to argue against what you say here, Cate, but I will throw out that I read somewhere that at some point in history Japan went through a 700 year period of peace and if that's true, perhaps under the right circumstances we could learn to be peaceful. Yet if we can't or won't use of big brains to figure out how to live in peace then maybe we deserve what we get which is self-annihilation (both through war and through environmental degradation). I keep pushing for the notion that with the right education we are capable of survival and peace.
and I put it to you brian to ask when this period of peace was... and under what circumstances it was established and maintained. 700 years is a frightfully long time for any peace to ensue on this earth... the fact that you've mentioned a country with a history of violence gives me pause.
Interesting we speak of Japan.
It has been very violent at times, but regarding this era of peace... it's curious to note that historically, Japan sought to seclude itself from other countries and their people. Did self reliance have anything to do with peace?
"My brain's a good brain!"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,538
It's not hard to have these feeling and it is difficult to argue against what you say here, Cate, but I will throw out that I read somewhere that at some point in history Japan went through a 700 year period of peace and if that's true, perhaps under the right circumstances we could learn to be peaceful. Yet if we can't or won't use of big brains to figure out how to live in peace then maybe we deserve what we get which is self-annihilation (both through war and through environmental degradation). I keep pushing for the notion that with the right education we are capable of survival and peace.
and I put it to you brian to ask when this period of peace was... and under what circumstances it was established and maintained. 700 years is a frightfully long time for any peace to ensue on this earth... the fact that you've mentioned a country with a history of violence gives me pause.
Interesting we speak of Japan.
It has been very violent at times, but regarding this era of peace... it's curious to note that historically, Japan sought to seclude itself from other countries and their people. Did self reliance have anything to do with peace?
Well that could be and if so, I chose a bad example because in this highly connected world, the road to peace is not seclusion but rather some kind of common goal. Maybe uniting to find solutions to climate chance and rapid species die off would both bring us together and save our necks while we're at it. Another common goal is the idea of sharing cultures. We play you some cool Pearl Jam style rock and roll and you wow us with some marvelous Lebanese singing.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It's not hard to have these feeling and it is difficult to argue against what you say here, Cate, but I will throw out that I read somewhere that at some point in history Japan went through a 700 year period of peace and if that's true, perhaps under the right circumstances we could learn to be peaceful. Yet if we can't or won't use of big brains to figure out how to live in peace then maybe we deserve what we get which is self-annihilation (both through war and through environmental degradation). I keep pushing for the notion that with the right education we are capable of survival and peace.
and I put it to you brian to ask when this period of peace was... and under what circumstances it was established and maintained. 700 years is a frightfully long time for any peace to ensue on this earth... the fact that you've mentioned a country with a history of violence gives me pause.
Interesting we speak of Japan.
It has been very violent at times, but regarding this era of peace... it's curious to note that historically, Japan sought to seclude itself from other countries and their people. Did self reliance have anything to do with peace?
Well that could be and if so, I chose a bad example because in this highly connected world, the road to peace is not seclusion but rather some kind of common goal. Maybe uniting to find solutions to climate chance and rapid species die off would both bring us together and save our necks while we're at it. Another common goal is the idea of sharing cultures. We play you some cool Pearl Jam style rock and roll and you wow us with some marvelous Lebanese singing.
tbh brian when it comes to the climate and species extinction I don't think humans generally speaking, as a species give a shit. we only care about ourselves so if some critter weve never really heard of dies off who cares, you know? we may feel some sort of twinge about it but at the same time think well that's the way of the world isn't it? species die off all the time... totally ignoring why those species die off. in our highly developed first world climate change hasn't affected us to any degree that has us asking what can we do before its too late because the arrogance in us has us of the opinion that we are above it all. we speak of 'the world' and what we really mean is 'our' world , the first world. we go on safari to see the big 5 in Africa yet turn our heads when faced with the human condition just miles down the road from that elephant sighting. perhaps we feel hamstrung about what it is we can do to alleviate the struggles of our African brothers and sisters, perhaps we don't care and thank jesus/allah/buddha that its not us.
mankind is tribal. our history is tribal. we will always be tribal. and its survival of the fittest. what we do to be 'the fittest' is what tears us apart. shit we cant even separate the actions of Islamic fundamentals wanting to watch the world burn from the overall muslim population.. we feel the need to denigrate and fear them all. our governments are rubbing their hands together with glee cause heres an easy way to control the population. these people want to kill you.. these people hate our freedoms. these people are not like you and me. their religion is one of violence and disrespectful of women.... as if their own has no history of either. personally I don't care if youre muslim, catholic, male, female, transgender sudanese, american, french... if you speak swahili or farsi or japanese... all I care about is that you respect me as youd respect yourself. i am not your enemy... ideology of hatred and ignorance.... politicians and the media telling you what to think are the enemy.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's not hard to have these feeling and it is difficult to argue against what you say here, Cate, but I will throw out that I read somewhere that at some point in history Japan went through a 700 year period of peace and if that's true, perhaps under the right circumstances we could learn to be peaceful. Yet if we can't or won't use of big brains to figure out how to live in peace then maybe we deserve what we get which is self-annihilation (both through war and through environmental degradation). I keep pushing for the notion that with the right education we are capable of survival and peace.
and I put it to you brian to ask when this period of peace was... and under what circumstances it was established and maintained. 700 years is a frightfully long time for any peace to ensue on this earth... the fact that you've mentioned a country with a history of violence gives me pause.
Interesting we speak of Japan.
It has been very violent at times, but regarding this era of peace... it's curious to note that historically, Japan sought to seclude itself from other countries and their people. Did self reliance have anything to do with peace?
Well that could be and if so, I chose a bad example because in this highly connected world, the road to peace is not seclusion but rather some kind of common goal. Maybe uniting to find solutions to climate chance and rapid species die off would both bring us together and save our necks while we're at it. Another common goal is the idea of sharing cultures. We play you some cool Pearl Jam style rock and roll and you wow us with some marvelous Lebanese singing.
tbh brian when it comes to the climate and species extinction I don't think humans generally speaking, as a species give a shit. we only care about ourselves so if some critter weve never really heard of dies off who cares, you know? we may feel some sort of twinge about it but at the same time think well that's the way of the world isn't it? species die off all the time... totally ignoring why those species die off. in our highly developed first world climate change hasn't affected us to any degree that has us asking what can we do before its too late because the arrogance in us has us of the opinion that we are above it all. we speak of 'the world' and what we really mean is 'our' world , the first world. we go on safari to see the big 5 in Africa yet turn our heads when faced with the human condition just miles down the road from that elephant sighting. perhaps we feel hamstrung about what it is we can do to alleviate the struggles of our African brothers and sisters, perhaps we don't care and thank jesus/allah/buddha that its not us.
mankind is tribal. our history is tribal. we will always be tribal. and its survival of the fittest. what we do to be 'the fittest' is what tears us apart. shit we cant even separate the actions of Islamic fundamentals wanting to watch the world burn from the overall muslim population.. we feel the need to denigrate and fear them all. our governments are rubbing their hands together with glee cause heres an easy way to control the population. these people want to kill you.. these people hate our freedoms. these people are not like you and me. their religion is one of violence and disrespectful of women.... as if their own has no history of either. personally I don't care if youre muslim, catholic, male, female, transgender sudanese, american, french... if you speak swahili or farsi or japanese... all I care about is that you respect me as youd respect yourself. i am not your enemy... ideology of hatred and ignorance.... politicians and the media telling you what to think are the enemy.
That's great and everything but you are right. Some people want to kill you for your thoughts and freedoms. I'll leave who that is to remain in your inside voice.
Comments
It's a passion
I think so.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
www.headstonesband.com
Terminator
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
700 years is a frightfully long time for any peace to ensue on this earth... the fact that you've mentioned a country with a history of violence gives me pause.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It has been very violent at times, but regarding this era of peace... it's curious to note that historically, Japan sought to seclude itself from other countries and their people. Did self reliance have anything to do with peace?
mankind is tribal. our history is tribal. we will always be tribal. and its survival of the fittest. what we do to be 'the fittest' is what tears us apart. shit we cant even separate the actions of Islamic fundamentals wanting to watch the world burn from the overall muslim population.. we feel the need to denigrate and fear them all. our governments are rubbing their hands together with glee cause heres an easy way to control the population. these people want to kill you.. these people hate our freedoms. these people are not like you and me. their religion is one of violence and disrespectful of women.... as if their own has no history of either. personally I don't care if youre muslim, catholic, male, female, transgender sudanese, american, french... if you speak swahili or farsi or japanese... all I care about is that you respect me as youd respect yourself. i am not your enemy... ideology of hatred and ignorance.... politicians and the media telling you what to think are the enemy.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Some people want to kill you for your thoughts and freedoms.
I'll leave who that is to remain in your inside voice.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
we will find a way, we will find our place
Really so sorry to hear about more shootings. A weekly experience here on Planet Earth.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Wtf
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.