GARY JOHNSON FOR PRESIDENT

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Gern Blansten said:

InHiding80 said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:
I actually think that a Bernie supporter who turns to Gary Johnson probably didn't know why they supported Bernie in the first place and vice versa. Bernie is farther away from being a libertarian than anyone else.
agreed....there is so much chatter over Bernie supporters going to Trump, to Johnson, etc.

A true Bernie supporter will either vote Jill Stein or write in Bernie.
Fixed.

Bernie is voting for Hillary.

Indeed (and I think that's definitely the smartest and most logical thing to do). I am interested to see what Bernie supporters who are saying they refuse to vote for Hillary have to say about this statement from Bernie.

Gern Blansten · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Gern Blansten said:

InHiding80 said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:
I actually think that a Bernie supporter who turns to Gary Johnson probably didn't know why they supported Bernie in the first place and vice versa. Bernie is farther away from being a libertarian than anyone else.
agreed....there is so much chatter over Bernie supporters going to Trump, to Johnson, etc.

A true Bernie supporter will either vote Jill Stein or write in Bernie.
Fixed.

Bernie is voting for Hillary.
Indeed (and I think that's definitely the smartest and most logical thing to do). I am interested to see what Bernie supporters who are saying they refuse to vote for Hillary have to say about this statement from Bernie.

Same thing happened 8 years ago...Clinton supporters said they wouldn't vote for Obama then they did in droves.

PJPOWER · June 2016

I know it's not really a scientific analysis, but several of my Facebook friends that used to support Bernie are now pushing Gary Johnson... I think this movement is about not supporting corrupt politicians and the vast majority of Bernie supporters that I have had discussions with think Hillary fits that bill. Many of them do not identify with Democrats even though Bernie chose that as his platform. Libertarian candidates appeal to liberals and conservatives in several ways. For example, legalization of marijuana is very libertarian. While it and socialism are definitely in conflict, Bernie aligned himself with the philosophy that corrupt politicians are a huge problem and need to have their power taken away. I think most libertarians align with that philosophy as well. I do not see many Bernie supporters aligning with Hillary's personality if nothing else, voters are finicky.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

I think that anyone who supported Bernie and then would turn around and vote for Johnson are at best very indifferent voters at the end of the day, frankly. It tells me that they don't really care about specific issues and are simply voting because of some vague impression they have about what politics and politicians should and shouldn't be.

jeffbr · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:
I think that anyone who supported Bernie and then would turn around and vote for Johnson are at best very indifferent voters at the end of the day, frankly. It tells me that they don't really care about specific issues and are simply voting because of some vague impression they have about what politics and politicians should and shouldn't be.

If you are an anti-interventionist and supported Bernie for that reason, then it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are pro-legalization and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are against corporate welfare and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. The two differ on many economic issues, but are most closely aligned on social issues. It comes down to what issues are most important to the individual voter.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:
I think that anyone who supported Bernie and then would turn around and vote for Johnson are at best very indifferent voters at the end of the day, frankly. It tells me that they don't really care about specific issues and are simply voting because of some vague impression they have about what politics and politicians should and shouldn't be.
If you are an anti-interventionist and supported Bernie for that reason, then it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are pro-legalization and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are against corporate welfare and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. The two differ on many economic issues, but are most closely aligned on social issues. It comes down to what issues are most important to the individual voter.

An anti-interventionist? Bernie is not that. You can't be a democratic socialist and an anti-interventionist at the same time. The two lines of thinking also actually differ very much in terms of social issues. A few happen to overlap, but dear god, I hope there aren't too many people who are that narrow minded when they vote.

Degeneratefk · June 2016

True libertarian values scare me. True libertarians want literally no government intervention in anything. I don't see how people that supported a self proclaimed socialist, could possibly turn their support towards a party that wants government intervention to be at its bare minimun.

jeffbr · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:
I think that anyone who supported Bernie and then would turn around and vote for Johnson are at best very indifferent voters at the end of the day, frankly. It tells me that they don't really care about specific issues and are simply voting because of some vague impression they have about what politics and politicians should and shouldn't be.
If you are an anti-interventionist and supported Bernie for that reason, then it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are pro-legalization and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are against corporate welfare and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. The two differ on many economic issues, but are most closely aligned on social issues. It comes down to what issues are most important to the individual voter.
An anti-interventionist? Bernie is not that. You can't be a democratic socialist and an anti-interventionist at the same time. The two lines of thinking also actually differ very much in terms of social issues. A few happen to overlap, but dear god, I hope there aren't too many people who are that narrow minded when they vote.

I don't know exactly how your defining anti-interventionist. When I said that I'm talking about someone who isn't going to rush to commit troops to fighting on foreign soil. Clinton is a hawk. Trump is bluster, but probably also a hawk. Sanders and Johnson not so much. I'm not sure how you can say that one can't be an anti-interventionist and a social democrat at the same time. I guess I don't understand how you're defining that.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:
I think that anyone who supported Bernie and then would turn around and vote for Johnson are at best very indifferent voters at the end of the day, frankly. It tells me that they don't really care about specific issues and are simply voting because of some vague impression they have about what politics and politicians should and shouldn't be.
If you are an anti-interventionist and supported Bernie for that reason, then it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are pro-legalization and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are against corporate welfare and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. The two differ on many economic issues, but are most closely aligned on social issues. It comes down to what issues are most important to the individual voter.
An anti-interventionist? Bernie is not that. You can't be a democratic socialist and an anti-interventionist at the same time. The two lines of thinking also actually differ very much in terms of social issues. A few happen to overlap, but dear god, I hope there aren't too many people who are that narrow minded when they vote.
I don't know exactly how your defining anti-interventionist. When I said that I'm talking about someone who isn't going to rush to commit troops to fighting on foreign soil. Clinton is a hawk. Trump is bluster, but probably also a hawk. Sanders and Johnson not so much. I'm not sure how you can say that one can't be an anti-interventionist and a social democrat at the same time. I guess I don't understand how you're defining that.

Socialism is really heavy on regulation and government intervention. If you mean "anti-interventionist" as not running into countries and intervening, I think you're using the wrong term. That would probably be better defined as being isolationist (which I seriously doubt ANY of the candidates would be, including Johnson. The US is too far gone as far as that goes already. It would take 2 terms for a POTUS to even begin turning that around IMO).

jeffbr · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:
I think that anyone who supported Bernie and then would turn around and vote for Johnson are at best very indifferent voters at the end of the day, frankly. It tells me that they don't really care about specific issues and are simply voting because of some vague impression they have about what politics and politicians should and shouldn't be.
If you are an anti-interventionist and supported Bernie for that reason, then it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are pro-legalization and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. If you are against corporate welfare and supported Bernie for that reason, it would make perfect sense to support Johnson. The two differ on many economic issues, but are most closely aligned on social issues. It comes down to what issues are most important to the individual voter.
An anti-interventionist? Bernie is not that. You can't be a democratic socialist and an anti-interventionist at the same time. The two lines of thinking also actually differ very much in terms of social issues. A few happen to overlap, but dear god, I hope there aren't too many people who are that narrow minded when they vote.
I don't know exactly how your defining anti-interventionist. When I said that I'm talking about someone who isn't going to rush to commit troops to fighting on foreign soil. Clinton is a hawk. Trump is bluster, but probably also a hawk. Sanders and Johnson not so much. I'm not sure how you can say that one can't be an anti-interventionist and a social democrat at the same time. I guess I don't understand how you're defining that.
Socialism is really heavy on regulation and government intervention. If you mean "anit-interventionist" as not running into countries and intervening when it comes to other countries, I think you're using the wrong term. That would probably be better defined as being isolationist (which I seriously doubt ANY of the candidates would be, including Johnson. The US is too far gone as far as that goes already. It would take 2 terms for a POTUS to even begin turning that around IMO.

Disagree with your use of the word interventionist. It is certainly frequently used in foreign policy discussions. An isolationist might want nothing to do with other countries. A non-interventionist will certainly have dealings with other countries but doesn't believe in intervening in their affairs to try and affect change (ofen through use of force).

PJ_Soul · June 2016

I have never heard or read the term "non-interventionist" in my entire life TBH. But after looking it up, it says that it is about having alliances with other nations but avoid wars. It seems that this doesn't mean zero intervention. It more sounds like it's about intervention through so-called diplomacy (this is certainly Bernie's take on it as far as I know). Okay.... there are people who would ONLY vote on that, domestic policy and economic system be damned? Well, good luck to them. Neither Bernie nor Johnson can suddenly deliver that to the USA, but yes, that is one of the few issue were Johnson and Bernie overlap a bit (but they aren't the same on that either FWIW).

lolobugg · June 2016

I watched the town hall with Mr Johnson on CNN. this guy is def not ready for primetime.

jeffbr · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:
I have never heard or read the term "non-interventionist" in my entire life TBH. But after looking it up, it says that it is about having alliances with other nations but avoid wars. Okay.... there are people who would ONLY vote on that, domestic policy and economic system be damned? Well, good luck to them. Neither Bernie nor Johnson can suddenly deliver that to the USA.

There are a lot of single-issue voters out there. They have a hot button issue that will get them out of their seat to vote for a candidate. That might be abortion/reproductive rights, guns, anti-war, LBGTQ equality, SCOTUS nominees, pot legalization, etc... They are likely concerned with lots of issues, but one issue will resonate with them and motivate them to take action and actually cast a vote. I can tell you I have NEVER voted for a candidate that reflected or represented all of my policy positions. But some issues are more important to me than others, so those are the issues I want to be aligned with when I'm voting for a candidate. If I disagree with them on issues that are of lesser importance or priority, that's the way it goes. If I have 2 high priority issues, and 20 low priority issues, I'd rather vote for the person who I'm aligned with on my 2 high priority issues, even though I may disagree with them on 15 of my low-priority issues.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Well it is quite frankly shocking to me that anyone who supported Bernie would vote for a guy who put this on his own campaign website:

"Governor Johnson, who has been referred to as the ‘most fiscally conservative Governor’ in the country, was the Republican Governor of New Mexico from 1994-2003....... Not surprisingly, Governor Johnson brings a distinctly business-like mentality to governing, believing that public policy decisions should be based on costs and benefits rather than strict ideology. Johnson is best known for his veto record, having vetoed more than 750 bills during his time in office — more than all other governors combined. His use of the veto pen has since earned him the nickname “Governor Veto.” He cut taxes 14 times while never raising them. When he left office, New Mexico was one of only four states in the country with a balanced budget. Term-limited, Johnson retired from public office in 2003.......
As President, Gary Johnson will move quickly and decisively to refocus U.S. efforts and resources to attack the real threats we face in a strategic, thoughtful way. The U.S. must get serious about cutting off the millions of dollars that are flowing into the violent extremists’ coffers every day. Relationships with strategic allies must be repaired and reinforced. And the simplistic options of “more boots on the ground” and dropping more bombs must be replaced with strategies that will isolate and ultimately neuter those violent extremist groups."

jeffbr · June 2016

Well, again it depends on what motivated someone to support Bernie in the first place. We know from polling that Johnson has taken a few percentage points away from Clinton, and a few away from Trump. We also know from polling that Johnson picked up some Bernie supporters who absolutely won't vote for either Hillary or Donald. I agree that they are vastly different in their economic policies. But they overlap on a number of social issues and foreign policy issues (which Clinton and Trump might not). So you might think it is nuts for a Bernie supporter to now support Johnson, but it is happening at some level.

polaris_x · June 2016

for sure johnson is going to take away votes from both trump and clinton ... but one would think stein would gain the most from disenfranchised sanders supporters ...

PJfanwillneverleave1 · June 2016

Who?

jeffbr · June 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Who?

You must be new to US politics. Google is your friend.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · June 2016

jeffbr said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Who?
You must be new to US politics. Google is your friend.

It was a joke.
He is so miniscule.

jeffbr · June 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

jeffbr said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Who?
You must be new to US politics. Google is your friend.
It was a joke.
He is so miniscule.

He seems like a guy with an average build and smarts, so I'm not sure he's minuscule, but I know Trump and probably his supporters often concern themselves with the size of ones hands.

Oh, if you're referencing the level of his support, that is a result of our two party system. When he was an R he had a machine behind him which allowed for bigger spending and a broader reach.

GARY JOHNSON FOR PRESIDENT

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