Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
He conformed. He got in line. He folded.
Better?
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,904
yes. back on topic.
so of the johnson platform thats been reported, where does it veer from libertarian ideals?
I have not researched as thoroughly as I could have so am asking for your take.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
so of the johnson platform thats been reported, where does it veer from libertarian ideals?
I have not researched as thoroughly as I could have so am asking for your take.
Both Johnson and Weld get a lot of shit from Utopia-seeking LIbertarians who think of them as unpure. I am a small 'l' libertarian, and these guys generally align with my politics. They are not hard-core. They are experienced and pragmatic in governing states, lean libertarian, but also understand how the system works.
so of the johnson platform thats been reported, where does it veer from libertarian ideals?
I have not researched as thoroughly as I could have so am asking for your take.
He's said he will force the bakery to bake the cake, he's pro TPP, his vp is anti-gun, he's called hrc wonderful, Weld endorsed Obama, he's for the drug war, he's pro-UN, he loves Romney, he called freedom of religion a black hole, both are globalists, he's for the carbon tax...
Anytime he's asked a question he sounds like someone who doesn't have any concept of being Libertarian, and I've said before he's had four years to get it together.
Just my take. I voted for him in 12, but won't again.
I have seen more posts than I can count , suggesting there are ONLY two choices this election cycle. When in fact there is an alternative.
One that is on the ballot in all 50 states , and I assume in the territories as well.
ANNNNND YET , this was found on the third page.
Do tell, why there isnt more discussion here on this ticket? If the other two are so distasteful to many, it seems logical to me that at a minimum this ticket would get more consideration than has been shown here.
Edit to correct a typo.
Not that I can vote, but if I could, and why I have nothing to say in this thread, I wouldn't spend a second considering Johnson simply because I am 100% not a Libertarian (or whatever bastardized form of it that Johnson is peddling). I do not support the ideology at all when it comes to economics and governance. He would not be considered an option at all for me. I feel like many Americans feel the same way. It's not like Johnson is a nice neutral alternative whose views fall somewhere in between Hillary and Trump. I am actually surprised he is getting as much support as he is. Frankly, I think it's because a lot of people don't really know what Libertarianism is all about or what Johnson is all about, and they don't much care, as long as they aren't supporting the Dems or the Reps.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
So, what about Libertarianism don't you like?
Economics and governance?
You don't like sound money and being left alone? Please explain. I'm asking in a non-volatile way, I really want to know. It seems common sense to me.
You don't like sound money and being left alone? Please explain. I'm asking in a non-volatile way, I really want to know. It seems common sense to me.
Not really into this conversation, because if you boil Libertarianism down to plain common sense then the conversation is pretty pointless. But my #1 issue is that I support strong banking/financial sector, educational, and environmental regulation. And I clearly lean fairly strongly towards more socialist ideals, wherein I support the community above the individual, raising corporate taxes based on earnings, stronger unions (that work - not crooked unions), and in don't believe in trickle-down economics, as Johnson apparently does. That isn't to say that I don't agree with some beliefs held by Libertarians. I do agree with some things. But the things I don't agree with I really disagree with, and i feel like there isn't any wiggle room when it comes to those issues as far as Libertarians are concerned. I mean, they advocate for abolishing income tax, leave environmental protection up to the whims of the free market, and base the education system on competition. Nooooo thank you.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I guess I was in a pissy mood when I said that... are you actually trying to have a real conversation with me? I suppose I assumed that wasn't in your playbook, sorry.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Why would you think that? I've never disrespected you. Yes, I was serious but I also realize people are tough to change, but coming from a lifelong Democrat until 2007 I know it can be done.
Why would you think that? I've never disrespected you. Yes, I was serious but I also realize people are tough to change, but coming from a lifelong Democrat until 2007 I know it can be done.
You don't have to answer, I'm good with that.
No probs answering. I just had that impression about you, not because I felt you were disrespectful to me in particular. I didn't think you seemed to interested in really engaged discussions, that's all. Honestly, I think your rancid, overwrought hate of Clinton might be clouding your contributions. But if you are interested in that, great! So anyway, yeah, Libertarianism is definitely not for me, and there is no way I'm going to change my mind on that one. I am deeply fundamentally opposed to certain aspects of it.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,661
Thought he could have answered it better but this doesn't make me believe that Liar 1 or Liar 2 is the better choice.
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I looked into this guy and the more he talks the more he makes Trump seem eloquent...
if it wasn't for our lack of main party choices would anyone take this guy seriously? He doesn't seem very Libertarian to me
I keep hearing this argument, and I don't understand it. His values seem aligned perfectly to libertarians. Hands off everything. Who cares about environment, who cares about education. All we want is FREEDOM. STATES RIGHTS!!
Johnson's values are not perfectly aligned to libertarians. He's a pragmatist. He pisses off Libertarians when he favors carbon taxes. There are many issues where he fails the Libertarian purity test. Not sure where you're seeing him perfectly aligned. He and Weld, both former Republican governors, have been taking a bunch of flak from the LP faithful. Anyway, I'll be voting for Johnson. Trump is crazy, and I wouldn't trust Hillary for a second. Johnson most closely aligns with my politics, but not to the extent that I'd like. I wish we had great choices. Instead we have to figure out which candidate will do the least amount of harm. I think that is Johnson. And I'm not sure what problem the above poster has with freedom, but if freedom troubles you there are alternatives available.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Johnson's values are not perfectly aligned to libertarians. He's a pragmatist. He pisses off Libertarians when he favors carbon taxes. There are many issues where he fails the Libertarian purity test. Not sure where you're seeing him perfectly aligned. He and Weld, both former Republican governors, have been taking a bunch of flak from the LP faithful. Anyway, I'll be voting for Johnson. Trump is crazy, and I wouldn't trust Hillary for a second. Johnson most closely aligns with my politics, but not to the extent that I'd like. I wish we had great choices. Instead we have to figure out which candidate will do the least amount of harm. I think that is Johnson. And I'm not sure what problem the above poster has with freedom, but if freedom troubles you there are alternatives available.
So because he favors one thing that a standard libertarian wouldn't, that makes him a bad libertarian? Isn't that expected? I don't think once you get appointed as the libertarian candidate that you are supposed to drop your personal views to COMPLETELY align to the party. How would the parties ever change if that was the case? IMO he is a perfect libertarian, he has fairly conservative economic views, he has liberal social views, and he wants a very small central gov't. Isn't that the base of the libertarian party?
I don't claim to be libertarian, and I don't support Johnson, so i could be totally off. but as a 3rd party this is how I view it. I was all hyped up about Johnson when I was a sophomore in college last election cycle, but have since realized many of his policies do not align with my views.
Johnson's values are not perfectly aligned to libertarians. He's a pragmatist. He pisses off Libertarians when he favors carbon taxes. There are many issues where he fails the Libertarian purity test. Not sure where you're seeing him perfectly aligned. He and Weld, both former Republican governors, have been taking a bunch of flak from the LP faithful. Anyway, I'll be voting for Johnson. Trump is crazy, and I wouldn't trust Hillary for a second. Johnson most closely aligns with my politics, but not to the extent that I'd like. I wish we had great choices. Instead we have to figure out which candidate will do the least amount of harm. I think that is Johnson. And I'm not sure what problem the above poster has with freedom, but if freedom troubles you there are alternatives available.
So because he favors one thing that a standard libertarian wouldn't, that makes him a bad libertarian? Isn't that expected? I don't think once you get appointed as the libertarian candidate that you are supposed to drop your personal views to COMPLETELY align to the party. How would the parties ever change if that was the case? IMO he is a perfect libertarian, he has fairly conservative economic views, he has liberal social views, and he wants a very small central gov't. Isn't that the base of the libertarian party?
I don't claim to be libertarian, and I don't support Johnson, so i could be totally off. but as a 3rd party this is how I view it. I was all hyped up about Johnson when I was a sophomore in college last election cycle, but have since realized many of his policies do not align with my views.
Fair enough. As I said, he doesn't perfectly align with my views either, but is the closest candidate out there. What you described above (social liberal, fiscal conservative) used to describe a liberal faction of the Republican party and a conservative faction of the Democratic Party as well. That description shouldn't have to be exclusive to libertarians. And that description aligns with what I'm looking for. These days both major parties continue to grow the size and scope of a centralized federal government, increase debt, relish deficit spending, and whittle away at our liberties. I'd like to see those trends reverse at some point.
Anyway, my main point in my previous response is that Johnson really isn't a true Libertarian (upper case L), and really isn't "perfectly aligned". Sure, he is aligned based on the very broad description you provided, but not aligned along the party platform, and that has true Libertarians holding their noses. But that's fine with me because hard core Libertarians are unrelenting in their belief in Utopia. For an interesting perspective about the centrist role they're taking, check this out: Gary Johnson and the Rise of Libertarian Centrism
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Johnson's values are not perfectly aligned to libertarians. He's a pragmatist. He pisses off Libertarians when he favors carbon taxes. There are many issues where he fails the Libertarian purity test. Not sure where you're seeing him perfectly aligned. He and Weld, both former Republican governors, have been taking a bunch of flak from the LP faithful. Anyway, I'll be voting for Johnson. Trump is crazy, and I wouldn't trust Hillary for a second. Johnson most closely aligns with my politics, but not to the extent that I'd like. I wish we had great choices. Instead we have to figure out which candidate will do the least amount of harm. I think that is Johnson. And I'm not sure what problem the above poster has with freedom, but if freedom troubles you there are alternatives available.
So because he favors one thing that a standard libertarian wouldn't, that makes him a bad libertarian? Isn't that expected? I don't think once you get appointed as the libertarian candidate that you are supposed to drop your personal views to COMPLETELY align to the party. How would the parties ever change if that was the case? IMO he is a perfect libertarian, he has fairly conservative economic views, he has liberal social views, and he wants a very small central gov't. Isn't that the base of the libertarian party?
I don't claim to be libertarian, and I don't support Johnson, so i could be totally off. but as a 3rd party this is how I view it. I was all hyped up about Johnson when I was a sophomore in college last election cycle, but have since realized many of his policies do not align with my views.
Fair enough. As I said, he doesn't perfectly align with my views either, but is the closest candidate out there. What you described above (social liberal, fiscal conservative) used to describe a liberal faction of the Republican party and a conservative faction of the Democratic Party as well. That description shouldn't have to be exclusive to libertarians. And that description aligns with what I'm looking for. These days both major parties continue to grow the size and scope of a centralized federal government, increase debt, relish deficit spending, and whittle away at our liberties. I'd like to see those trends reverse at some point.
Anyway, my main point in my previous response is that Johnson really isn't a true Libertarian (upper case L), and really isn't "perfectly aligned". Sure, he is aligned based on the very broad description you provided, but not aligned along the party platform, and that has true Libertarians holding their noses. But that's fine with me because hard core Libertarians are unrelenting in their belief in Utopia. For an interesting perspective about the centrist role they're taking, check this out: Gary Johnson and the Rise of Libertarian Centrism
That article is interesting and is somewhat hard for me to follow as it was written by someone who feels the reader is a hardcore libertarian already. Being as I learned libertarian-ism from GJ in prior years, maybe my view of what libertarian-ism is quite skewed towards him. Either way, I don't agree with it!
Amazing that the media lets Clinton and Trump lie away and when someone is honest, they are immediately disqualified to be POTUS.
When they're honest about how they don't know the basics when it comes to Seria and what's happening with ISIS? I think that matters. Anyway, Johnson isn't becoming President in any case. He knows it and we know it. He's just using this election to further his own political standing.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Amazing that the media lets Clinton and Trump lie away and when someone is honest, they are immediately disqualified to be POTUS.
When they're honest about how they don't know the basics when it comes to Seria and what's happening with ISIS? I think that matters. Anyway, Johnson isn't becoming President in any case. He knows it and we know it. He's just using this election to further his own political standing.
I feel the other two goombas have had much greater gaffes and the media doesn't declare them unfit to serve. Plus, military expansion isn't high on his to-do list.
Amazing that the media lets Clinton and Trump lie away and when someone is honest, they are immediately disqualified to be POTUS.
When they're honest about how they don't know the basics when it comes to Seria and what's happening with ISIS? I think that matters. Anyway, Johnson isn't becoming President in any case. He knows it and we know it. He's just using this election to further his own political standing.
I feel the other two goombas have had much greater gaffes and the media doesn't declare them unfit to serve. Plus, military expansion isn't high on his to-do list.
Sorry? You don't think the media has declared Trump and Clinton unfit to serve?????? Have you been avoiding the media for the past 4 months?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Amazing that the media lets Clinton and Trump lie away and when someone is honest, they are immediately disqualified to be POTUS.
When they're honest about how they don't know the basics when it comes to Seria and what's happening with ISIS? I think that matters. Anyway, Johnson isn't becoming President in any case. He knows it and we know it. He's just using this election to further his own political standing.
I feel the other two goombas have had much greater gaffes and the media doesn't declare them unfit to serve. Plus, military expansion isn't high on his to-do list.
Sorry? You don't think the media has declared Trump and Clinton unfit to serve?????? Have you been avoiding the media for the past 4 months?
There were / are media outlets that will defend or deflate any piece of monkey poop that flies out of Trump or Clinton. The knives came out for Johnson across the media spectrum.
Have u been avoiding the media for the past 4 months??????? (ha ... one more ?, sucka)
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Better?
so of the johnson platform thats been reported, where does it veer from libertarian ideals?
I have not researched as thoroughly as I could have so am asking for your take.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Here's a good explanation of Libertarian centrism, where Weld is firmly grounded, an Johnson currently finds himself: http://reason.com/archives/2016/08/16/gary-johnson-and-the-rise-of-libertarian
Here's a little piece on Weld, highlighting some of the non-libertarian positions he takes, but he doesn't care. He's just himself, and certainly appeals to centrists like me. http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/22/william-weld-never-mind-libertarianism-h
Anytime he's asked a question he sounds like someone who doesn't have any concept of being Libertarian, and I've said before he's had four years to get it together.
Just my take. I voted for him in 12, but won't again.
Economics and governance?
You don't like sound money and being left alone? Please explain. I'm asking in a non-volatile way, I really want to know. It seems common sense to me.
You don't have to answer, I'm good with that.
I just had that impression about you, not because I felt you were disrespectful to me in particular. I didn't think you seemed to interested in really engaged discussions, that's all. Honestly, I think your rancid, overwrought hate of Clinton might be clouding your contributions. But if you are interested in that, great!
So anyway, yeah, Libertarianism is definitely not for me, and there is no way I'm going to change my mind on that one. I am deeply fundamentally opposed to certain aspects of it.
Seriously....what a dumbass stoner
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
but I agree to a point, at this stage, working knowledge and quick on your feet would be expected imo.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Gary Johnson lost me with his need to be so PC.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
if it wasn't for our lack of main party choices would anyone take this guy seriously? He doesn't seem very Libertarian to me
I don't claim to be libertarian, and I don't support Johnson, so i could be totally off. but as a 3rd party this is how I view it. I was all hyped up about Johnson when I was a sophomore in college last election cycle, but have since realized many of his policies do not align with my views.
Anyway, my main point in my previous response is that Johnson really isn't a true Libertarian (upper case L), and really isn't "perfectly aligned". Sure, he is aligned based on the very broad description you provided, but not aligned along the party platform, and that has true Libertarians holding their noses. But that's fine with me because hard core Libertarians are unrelenting in their belief in Utopia. For an interesting perspective about the centrist role they're taking, check this out: Gary Johnson and the Rise of Libertarian Centrism
http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/what-is-aleppo
Have u been avoiding the media for the past 4 months??????? (ha ... one more ?, sucka)