Bernie Sanders for President

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Comments

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Free said:

    hedonist said:

    russel, you've been a class act through your comments here, and there. And there too.

    It's appreciated.

    Your presence here is to play back up, huh? If your motives are to create more divisiveness, I'm sorry, not happening.

    Not playing games and I already told Russell our arguments were over weeks ago when we cannot see eye to eye at all. No matter how much the need to push an argument.

    This whole Catholicism debate? Clearly, a shift in getting off topic and obviously we are just dying to make another argument, for arguments sake. Maybe I'm thinking more modern times than they are. It doesn't matter, the initial story it was Bernie being invited to the Vatican to speak.

    But I'm sticking to the topic of Bernie.
    Yes, I am a back-up player. Should've seen me when I toured with the Temptations...had some awesome moves.

    And divisiveness, woohoo!

    Really, this is ridiculous.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    hedonist said:

    russel, you've been a class act through your comments here, and there. And there too.

    It's appreciated.

    russel is a great poster. But isn't this message better left to a PM?
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    dignin said:

    hedonist said:

    russel, you've been a class act through your comments here, and there. And there too.

    It's appreciated.

    russel is a great poster. But isn't this message better left to a PM?
    No. Why? Similar comments have been made all over the place without such controversy.

    Jeesh! Wasn't even "divisive", it was actually positive. Read it and move on, no?
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    hedonist said:

    dignin said:

    hedonist said:

    russel, you've been a class act through your comments here, and there. And there too.

    It's appreciated.

    russel is a great poster. But isn't this message better left to a PM?
    No. Why? Similar comments have been made all over the place without such controversy.

    Jeesh! Wasn't even "divisive", it was actually positive. Read it and move on, no?
    I don't want to take away from the topic so I'm not even going to bother. Carry on.

    image
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    edited April 2016
    You're all very sweet. I'm going to do what I'm going to do either way, but I really want to make the discussion analytical and steeped in reason. For a long time, that was what being Progressive was all about. I hope that continues.

    Brianlux - You bring up a good question as to whether this is supposed to be an argument. But I used the word argument in its positive connotation, not a negative one. I think we are all generally on the AMT because this is where debate happens. At least I am. I like a good debate and will bring up points that I don't always agree with just to spark the conversation or offer a counterpoint. For example, you won't generally see me defending the Catholic Church. But if someone says something that is blatantly wrong or unnecessarily insults the millions of Catholics (for example) in this country, then I'll probably speak up. If we all were to agree, what fun would that be? That's just group think...

    -Matt
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Russ I mean Matt: come for the debate as well. Now "unnecessarily insulting millions of Catholics" well ah what's the boundary. I say all Catholics need a boost in confidence and take life on as it's own. God and bible are rubbish. Cross the line? :)

    As to the new pope, well refreshing and welcomed. Now think all religion is under siege from reality and equality so being forced to stop being dicks for survival. When cruising through central Tx search out "Christian" radio stations. Did so this past weekend and during " Christian News" (yeah can hardly type this) topic was how the church is under siege. It's dying folks. Slowly but dying.

    Oh love debating religion what was the thread topic?

    Oh Bernie the openly athiest front running presidential candidate meeting the pope! Sweet. Very political move but good with it.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    callen said:

    Russ I mean Matt: come for the debate as well. Now "unnecessarily insulting millions of Catholics" well ah what's the boundary. I say all Catholics need a boost in confidence and take life on as it's own. God and bible are rubbish. Cross the line? :)

    As to the new pope, well refreshing and welcomed. Now think all religion is under siege from reality and equality so being forced to stop being dicks for survival. When cruising through central Tx search out "Christian" radio stations. Did so this past weekend and during " Christian News" (yeah can hardly type this) topic was how the church is under siege. It's dying folks. Slowly but dying.

    Oh love debating religion what was the thread topic?

    Oh Bernie the openly athiest front running presidential candidate meeting the pope! Sweet. Very political move but good with it.

    Religion is dying in the Western world. It's probably the natural progression. Over the last several thousand years when have gone from animism to polytheism to monotheism and now... towards spirituality and maybe atheism. It's a progression for sure. Here's the thing though, outside of the prejudicial piece (gay marriage, etc.) I kind of wish I was more of a believer in God. It seems like it would make dying something to look forward to, rather than the end of it all.

    BTW, I don't think Bernie is an atheist. He said at a debate or town hall that he was very religious.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Hmm thought Bernie said he wasn't very religious. I may be wrong.

    I'm good with not needing anything when I die. Just enjoy this time I hAve yet treat all as I want to be treated. And yes if I have a belief that is odd or nonsensically okay with people telling me.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    callen said:

    Hmm thought Bernie said he wasn't very religious. I may be wrong.

    I'm good with not needing anything when I die. Just enjoy this time I hAve yet treat all as I want to be treated. And yes if I have a belief that is odd or nonsensically okay with people telling me.

    To me it's just a little sad to think you would never connect with your children or parents again... that would be the 'joy' of heaven or whatever afterlife there may be.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    callen said:

    Hmm thought Bernie said he wasn't very religious. I may be wrong.

    I'm good with not needing anything when I die. Just enjoy this time I hAve yet treat all as I want to be treated. And yes if I have a belief that is odd or nonsensically okay with people telling me.

    To me it's just a little sad to think you would never connect with your children or parents again... that would be the 'joy' of heaven or whatever afterlife there may be.
    So I'll use an Ed quote. Think it was in Calgary and they were going to another city next day (forgot) and..........

    "Ah ah ah so we're playing in ah ah Edmonton tomorrow so we ah ah need to take it easy tonight". Crowd boos to which Ed continues "ah ah well fuck them it's all about the present".

    Love your family while your here. Stop working at the salt mines as soon as you can. Lead a full life. You die it's over. I'm at peace with this.

    Ed: apologies if I missed quoted you. Hard to keep track of the ahs. :)
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

    Curious then, that his supporters are making a big deal about this Vatican visit. Is it pandering to the Catholic vote in NY?
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    Free said:

    ‘Morning Joe’: ‘Why Does The Democratic Party Even Have Voting Booths? This System Is So Rigged’ [VIDEO]

    http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/joe-dem-primary-system-rigged-against-voters-663318083925?cid=playlist=480866&cid=sm_fb_mojoe

    Morning Joe acknowledges rigging of election.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    Free said:

    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

    :plus_one:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,692
    edited April 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

    Curious then, that his supporters are making a big deal about this Vatican visit. Is it pandering to the Catholic vote in NY?
    It's pandering to everyone who is on the Pope Train. That's a lot of people. The Vatican's PR campaign is highly effective, and Catholics and non-Catholics alike are largely in love with the fuckin' guy. It's very smart for Bernie to accept the invitation. Nothing wrong with it either, IMO. It never even occurred to me to link this to Bernie's personal religious position, especially since he's not even Catholic. It's just a good opportunity for some solid publicity for a huge audience that has a very positive feeling about the Pope right now.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    brianlux said:

    Free said:

    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

    :plus_one:
    But it (Vatican visit) was brought up in this thread? I found the overall discussion interesting though still trying to follow some of the rationales.

    Oh well!
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

    Curious then, that his supporters are making a big deal about this Vatican visit. Is it pandering to the Catholic vote in NY?
    It's pandering to everyone who is on the Pope Train. That's a lot of people. The Vatican's PR campaign is highly effective, and Catholics and non-Catholics alike are largely in love with the fuckin' guy. It's very smart for Bernie to accept the invitation. Nothing wrong with it either, IMO. It never even occurred to me to link this to Bernie's personal religious position, especially since he's not even Catholic. It's just a good opportunity for some solid publicity for a huge audience that has a very positive feeling about the Pope right now.
    Yeah, I have no issue with politicians appealing to certain blocs or segments of the population. It's a natural part of politics in my mind. Some call it micro targeting, other identity politics. My point was to Brian I think or others that say "keep religion out of politics" on one hand and "vote Bernie" on the other. I'm just saying here.... there's a lot of criticizing of certain normal political activities but then when Bernie does it, it's okay. This is one, the active courting of the super delegates is another... there's many more.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,692
    edited April 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

    Curious then, that his supporters are making a big deal about this Vatican visit. Is it pandering to the Catholic vote in NY?
    It's pandering to everyone who is on the Pope Train. That's a lot of people. The Vatican's PR campaign is highly effective, and Catholics and non-Catholics alike are largely in love with the fuckin' guy. It's very smart for Bernie to accept the invitation. Nothing wrong with it either, IMO. It never even occurred to me to link this to Bernie's personal religious position, especially since he's not even Catholic. It's just a good opportunity for some solid publicity for a huge audience that has a very positive feeling about the Pope right now.
    Yeah, I have no issue with politicians appealing to certain blocs or segments of the population. It's a natural part of politics in my mind. Some call it micro targeting, other identity politics. My point was to Brian I think or others that say "keep religion out of politics" on one hand and "vote Bernie" on the other. I'm just saying here.... there's a lot of criticizing of certain normal political activities but then when Bernie does it, it's okay. This is one, the active courting of the super delegates is another... there's many more.
    Well, okay... althought the Pope, to me, is a lot more than just religion. He is a political figure in his own right (could even be considered a dictatorial leader).
    As for Bernie's methods in the campaign... I feel like people have taken his message about electoral reform and run with it. There seems to be this assumption that Bernie is very black and white as far as this goes, and I don't know why. To me, Bernie comes of as a very complicated political character, where black and white doesn't exist.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mrussel1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Separation of church and state! Separation of religious discussion and Bernie running for president!

    GO BERNIE!

    Curious then, that his supporters are making a big deal about this Vatican visit. Is it pandering to the Catholic vote in NY?
    It's pandering to everyone who is on the Pope Train. That's a lot of people. The Vatican's PR campaign is highly effective, and Catholics and non-Catholics alike are largely in love with the fuckin' guy. It's very smart for Bernie to accept the invitation. Nothing wrong with it either, IMO. It never even occurred to me to link this to Bernie's personal religious position, especially since he's not even Catholic. It's just a good opportunity for some solid publicity for a huge audience that has a very positive feeling about the Pope right now.
    Yeah, I have no issue with politicians appealing to certain blocs or segments of the population. It's a natural part of politics in my mind. Some call it micro targeting, other identity politics. My point was to Brian I think or others that say "keep religion out of politics" on one hand and "vote Bernie" on the other. I'm just saying here.... there's a lot of criticizing of certain normal political activities but then when Bernie does it, it's okay. This is one, the active courting of the super delegates is another... there's many more.
    Well, okay... althought the Pope, to me, is a lot more than just religion. He is a political figure in his own right (could even be considered a dictatorial leader).
    As for Bernie's methods in the campaign... I feel like people have taken his message about electoral reform and run with it. There seems to be this assumption that Bernie is very black and white as far as this goes, and I don't know why. To me, Bernie comes of as a very complicated political character, where black and white doesn't exist.
    Well it is interesting that when JFK (first Catholic president) was running, there was a smear campaign against him that the Vatican would be calling the shots if he was President. That was a real fear during a time when the political structure was 100% WASP. So your point is valid (not sure about dictator though) regarding what he represents.

    And you are right and I think we are saying the same thing, although I'm a bit more critical. Bernie's backers have created this 'purity' thing around him that really does not exist. He has lots of warts like everyone else. It's easy to find hypocritical issues espoused more by his followers than the candidate himself. I'm not sure B&W exists for any issue or any candidate. There's almost always some merit to a counterpoint (other than really sensitive issues like racism, etc.).
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