Bernie Sanders for President

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

Bernie Sanders Accepts Rare Invitation to Speak at the Vatican

https://news.vice.com/article/untitled-article-1460123278

I see the Vatican is still very on point with their clever PR campaign.

Clever is a good word, and I agree. While the current Pope may be progressive, that is relative. He heads an organization that has institutionalized pedophilia, and represses women's reproductive rights. Its easy to promote tolerance with words but it would be great to see that organization emerge from the 18th century.

jeffbr said:

Is this about the Pope or the Vatican? I think the current Pope seems like a good dude, relatively speaking. I think the Vatican with its pomp and gaudy trimmings would be better suited to a Trump speech. And I think that church is the polar opposite of Sanders, so the only thing Sanders gets out of the speech is convincing some Catholics that they're safe voting for a secular progressive.

But for me it works against him. I will think less of Bernie for pandering to an exceptionally corrupt and bigoted institution for votes. If the KKK's grand wizard started preaching tolerance with no change to their policies and unfortunate dogmas would you support Bernie speaking to their org? The church just seems to be the antithesis of what Bernie is all about so I just don't understand why he's validating their harmful teachings.

I guess it all depends on what he says to that audience. I don't see how him or anyone speaking to any audience validates them. He should be judged on the content of what he says, not who he is speaking to. If he changes what he says to kiss the vaticans ass well than that's a different story, but given the history of the man I would be very surprised.

And let's not think that any of the candidates wouldn't love this opportunity.

Free said:

The Vermont senator said they share the same views on inequality.

He's trying to inject this sense of morality into how we do economics... and we need that absolutely desperately."
He will attend a conference on social, economic and environmental issues and give a speech on 15 April, his campaign said.

Mr Sanders and Pope Francis have similar views on fighting income inequality, he said, and he was "very moved" by the invitation from the Vatican.
He said he and the pope disagree on women's rights and gay rights, but Pope Francis has "injected a moral consequence into the economy"...

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35999269

Francis is the best Pope the world has had in some time. I'm all for having the Bernie Sanders become the best president we've had in quite some time as well. I'm not particularly religious but this is more about the issues and doing the right thing. I think it's great. Hopeful, inspiring and motivating. We can do this.

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

For sure. It is also still an enemy to female equality (women still have absolutely ZERO power in the Vatican or the church. They can be nuns, who are subservient to all male hierarchy, and that is basically it. They have these little worthless positions that mean nothing - something like abbots or whatever, and it's pure lip service. It's absolutely sick, this day and age), and gay rights. I hate the Vatican.

Oh please, we already know you're an atheist, first off. If you know anything about the Catholic religion, they will never make women equal or accept homosexuality. they're so seeped in tradition that things will never change on that front. NOTHING NEW.

What IS new is Pope Francis breathing a refreshing acceptance and difference into the Vatican. One of love, equality in economics and class, environmental awareness, and actually pushing for a better world.

Don't turn this news story about Sanders into an unrelatable, 'religion' thread.

I highlighted (quoted) why he was invited to the Vatican. This has to do with how the world should be run (pro-people, pro-environment, pro-equality) and not about religion. He's a Jew after all!

Me being an atheist has nothing to do with it.
You seriously think that the Catholic Church will never have gender equality? Why? I know a LOT about the Catholic Church, and one thing that is undeniable is that it changes drastically in response to changing societies. It has changed its doctrines hundreds of times and rewrote the Bible dozens of times (and added to it, which is why it has its own version of the Bible).
Anyway, sure sure, great that Bernie gets the publicity. That is good. I'm just sorry that the Vatican benefits from that publicity as well.

You being an atheist has everything to do with your views on the Vatican.

I was a life-long Catholic, w/ 13 years of Catholic school. It is foolish to think that the Catholic Church will ever change their traditions. It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism. The only thing that's changed is that priests are seeing their fate after screwing (literally) so many people over the years. I left the church because the church is a disgrace.

But this new pope is finally what the church is needed, a little far too late. Read up, I suggest to you. But this isn't about religion.. Try reading the 2 links I posted. This is about leadership.

WTF are you talking about?? Sorry, you are the one who knows not much about the history of the Catholic Church if you think that it hasn't changed in response to changing societies (usually for the worse, mind you). Anyway, the argument is really about whether or not the Church will be forced to change due to societal changes. I think yes, assuming the Church wants to continue to suck up all that money, and that is a pretty safe assumption. I think the inequality of women in particular will demand change soon enough.
No, me being an Atheist has nothing to do with it. Perhaps me not being a Catholic does, since I haven't got those blinders on (perhaps that's your problem? Having learned about the Church from the Church? They aren't exactly transparent about a lot of shit).

Free said:

Ahh, the insults again. You people realize that the need to belittle says more about you than Anything else.

And no, Pj soul. The church will never Make women be equal. Keep believing what you want but that is true. The fact that you think the church evolves? That Says more than anything. Because you obviously don't know Catholicism. Don't get your panties in a bunch about it, it's the way it is.

No one is insulting you. I went to Catholic school as well and we didn't learn Vatican II. I didn't know about that until college or something. Old liner priests were bitter about it.

But when you say things like this..."It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism.", you set yourself up. First two lessons about arguing... Never make it personal and always leave yourself an 'out', when faced with new information. You'll notice most people here don't make incontrovertible statements. You have a habit of it. When you do that, you have no place to go.

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

Ahh, the insults again. You people realize that the need to belittle says more about you than Anything else.

And no, Pj soul. The church will never Make women be equal. Keep believing what you want but that is true. The fact that you think the church evolves? That Says more than anything. Because you obviously don't know Catholicism. Don't get your panties in a bunch about it, it's the way it is.

No one is insulting you. I went to Catholic school as well and we didn't learn Vatican II. I didn't know about that until college or something. Old liner priests were bitter about it.

But when you say things like this..."It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism.", you set yourself up. First two lessons about arguing... Never make it personal and always leave yourself an 'out', when faced with new information. You'll notice most people here don't make incontrovertible statements. You have a habit of it. When you do that, you have no place to go.

But are we here simply to argue? Is this just an exercise in who wins Debate 101? Also, "Never make it personal" seems rather ironic here. Would it not be better to stay with the subject rather than just argue for the sake of arguing? Just a thought. Maybe I'm reading this wrong.

But, lest I be a hypocrite, on to the subject... Any religion as big as Catholicism is going to be seen differently depending on ones perspective. From my own experience and limited exposure, Catholicism is an exercise in tedium, inconsequential mythology and pointless ritual, but relatively harmless. What do I know? Not much. But to a friend of mine who, as a little girl, was raped by a priest, Catholicism is an unspeakable evil worse than hell. This kind of this has happened time and time again and some of that blame has to be put on the religious institution.

From my perspective, the Pope is just a rock star of sorts with a funny hat, but nevertheless he has a lot of influence in the world and the current one, Francis seems like one of the better Pope Dudes we've had. So I'm glad Bernie is spending some time with him. Our future president should be familiar with big names like Francis.