History of 10 club tix and seniority

JS38594 · January 2016

RP112579 said:

JS38594 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

JS38594 said:

SVRDhand13 said:

Poncier said:
Seniority has never been a factor in getting tickets.
I

But it should be...
why?
we pay membersip per year
THIS YEAR me and you paid the SAME MONEY
why and how your money is different for this year than mine??
same color the dollars mine and yours,same value for this year..same chances to score tickets
AFTER and IF we both score tix..u get a better seat in the house cos u paid more years than mE..
SYSTEM IN PERFECTION....
The fan club itself places a value on member number. I think we can all agree on that. The lower the number, the longer you have been in the fan club. This is important. If this didn't exist, there would be no seniority argument and it would be a free-for-all. Because this does exist, we can debate how much value is placed on it.

By its very nature, the concept of seniority is dependent upon time. Meaning that it doesnt matter if you and I paid the same money THIS YEAR. I've been paying for the last 18 YEARS. In the context of seniority, how does 1 = 18?
I think the members with low numbers put more value on the member numbers than the fan club ever has.

It may be true, but it doesnt make it right.

DB41 · January 2016

why now u dont bitching?!?!

... for old times sake

dimitrispearljam · January 2016

JS38594 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

JS38594 said:

SVRDhand13 said:

Poncier said:
Seniority has never been a factor in getting tickets.
I

But it should be...
why?
we pay membersip per year
THIS YEAR me and you paid the SAME MONEY
why and how your money is different for this year than mine??
same color the dollars mine and yours,same value for this year..same chances to score tickets
AFTER and IF we both score tix..u get a better seat in the house cos u paid more years than mE..
SYSTEM IN PERFECTION....
The fan club itself places a value on member number. I think we can all agree on that. The lower the number, the longer you have been in the fan club. This is important. If this didn't exist, there would be no seniority argument and it would be a free-for-all. Because this does exist, we can debate how much value is placed on it.

By its very nature, the concept of seniority is dependent upon time. Meaning that it doesnt matter if you and I paid the same money THIS YEAR. I've been paying for the last 18 YEARS. In the context of seniority, how does 1 = 18?

SENIORITY WAS..IS...AND WILL BE ALWAYS FOR SEAT LOCATION AFTER YOU SCORE TICKETS..and NEVER WAS,-IS -WILL BE TO SCORE TICKETS
in plain simple Greekglish..

JimmyV · January 2016

dimitrispearljam said:

JS38594 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

JS38594 said:

SVRDhand13 said:

Poncier said:
Seniority has never been a factor in getting tickets.
I

But it should be...
why?
we pay membersip per year
THIS YEAR me and you paid the SAME MONEY
why and how your money is different for this year than mine??
same color the dollars mine and yours,same value for this year..same chances to score tickets
AFTER and IF we both score tix..u get a better seat in the house cos u paid more years than mE..
SYSTEM IN PERFECTION....
The fan club itself places a value on member number. I think we can all agree on that. The lower the number, the longer you have been in the fan club. This is important. If this didn't exist, there would be no seniority argument and it would be a free-for-all. Because this does exist, we can debate how much value is placed on it.

By its very nature, the concept of seniority is dependent upon time. Meaning that it doesnt matter if you and I paid the same money THIS YEAR. I've been paying for the last 18 YEARS. In the context of seniority, how does 1 = 18?
SENIORITY WAS..IS...AND WILL BE ALWAYS FOR SEAT LOCATION AFTER YOU SCORE TICKETS..and NEVER WAS,-IS -WILL BE TO SCORE TICKETS
in plain simple Greekglish..

Yep. Couldn't be simpler.

Abe Froman · January 2016

Seniority still means better seats like it always has so its still has the same importance it always has had. No reason I should have a better chance at tickets just because Ive been in the 10c longer.

Dercheef · January 2016

JS38594 said:

dimitrispearljam said:

JS38594 said:

SVRDhand13 said:

Poncier said:
Seniority has never been a factor in getting tickets.
I

But it should be...
why?
we pay membersip per year
THIS YEAR me and you paid the SAME MONEY
why and how your money is different for this year than mine??
same color the dollars mine and yours,same value for this year..same chances to score tickets
AFTER and IF we both score tix..u get a better seat in the house cos u paid more years than mE..
SYSTEM IN PERFECTION....
The fan club itself places a value on member number. I think we can all agree on that. The lower the number, the longer you have been in the fan club. This is important. If this didn't exist, there would be no seniority argument and it would be a free-for-all. Because this does exist, we can debate how much value is placed on it.

By its very nature, the concept of seniority is dependent upon time. Meaning that it doesnt matter if you and I paid the same money THIS YEAR. I've been paying for the last 18 YEARS. In the context of seniority, how does 1 = 18?

If you paid your membership for 18 straight years, then you you already got your benefit in those years while you were in the club. Period. Why you think you deserve something better because of this than any other member who paid their membership fee for 2016 is beyond me. Everyone who is an active member should be treated equally imo.

Merkin Baller · January 2016

Abe Froman said:
Seniority still means better seats like it always has so its still has the same importance it always has had. No reason I should have a better chance at tickets just because Ive been in the 10c longer.

Try telling that to someone who has been in the club since the 1800s.

Lost In Ohio · January 2016

I think some people who says seniority counts for "guaranteed tickets" or should count are long-time members from the 90s...and here's why I say that.

In 1996, 98, 2000, whatever, the band used to tour a lot. They'd do NYC two shows, two shows in Philly, two or three shows in Boston, Mansfield, Hartford, etc. They'd do a show in Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati AND Indianapolis. They'd do two in Chicago. They'd do two in LA and one in San Diego and then three in San Francisco.

Well, not maybe not quite, but close. Someone in Chicago wouldn't have to travel to NYC or Philly because there were two Chicago shows, one in Milwaukee and one in Indianapolis. Add in the limits for tickets someone could buy and there was a "why should I even TRY for MSG when I know I have 4-5 shows within a few hours drive?"

They also had a LOT fewer members than they do now. A "high number" back then might have been 169xxx. When the band toured like crazy, there was less incentive to drive or fly long distances to see them, as you could see 3-4 shows within easy driving distance AND maybe do a half-day at work before the show.

There were also varying limits on the number of tickets someone could get via 10C, thus increasing the supply even more.

10C never said "we guarantee tickets to our members" but it probably FELT like they did.

dimitrispearljam · January 2016

Merkin Baller said:

Abe Froman said:
Seniority still means better seats like it always has so its still has the same importance it always has had. No reason I should have a better chance at tickets just because Ive been in the 10c longer.
Try telling that to someone who has been in the club since the 1800s.

Thomas Jefferson was a 10c member?

blondieblue227 · January 2016

so the seat tracker site was totally pointless?
hahahha!

CantKeepmedown · January 2016

It's really not a hard concept to understand. Seniority only means something if you get selected for reserved seats. If me and some dude who just became a member last month each get MSG reserved tix, you can bet my seats will be better. But it doesn't mean I deserve a ticket any more than he does.

It's never not been any different than that. Even back in the day, people with 4 digit fanclub numbers had to get their post cards in on time and hope that there were enough tix for the show they selected.

Much like now, you have to get your entry in on time. And even if you do, it doesn't guarantee you jack shit.

Now, did people have a much easier time in the F5 days? Absolutely. Some had quicker computers, some knew how to bypass certain screens, and some just had better luck. But there were plenty of people on these boards bitching because their screen timed out, or the site crashed for them, or whatever. And as a group, people made a big stink out of it, enough so that the 10C listened and changed things to the lottery.

Poncier · January 2016

Lost In Ohio said:
I think some people who says seniority counts for "guaranteed tickets" or should count are long-time members from the 90s...and here's why I say that.

In 1996, 98, 2000, whatever, the band used to tour a lot. They'd do NYC two shows, two shows in Philly, two or three shows in Boston, Mansfield, Hartford, etc. They'd do a show in Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati AND Indianapolis. They'd do two in Chicago. They'd do two in LA and one in San Diego and then three in San Francisco.

Well, not maybe not quite, but close. Someone in Chicago wouldn't have to travel to NYC or Philly because there were two Chicago shows, one in Milwaukee and one in Indianapolis. Add in the limits for tickets someone could buy and there was a "why should I even TRY for MSG when I know I have 4-5 shows within a few hours drive?"

They also had a LOT fewer members than they do now. A "high number" back then might have been 169xxx. When the band toured like crazy, there was less incentive to drive or fly long distances to see them, as you could see 3-4 shows within easy driving distance AND maybe do a half-day at work before the show.

There were also varying limits on the number of tickets someone could get via 10C, thus increasing the supply even more.

10C never said "we guarantee tickets to our members" but it probably FELT like they did.

Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.

But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.

Empty Glass · January 2016

You're assuming the post lottery whiners can read

:rofl:

josevolution · January 2016

It's funny how people still get worked up about this topic I have to admit it bothered me when they went to rows 1&2 & 9&10 random picking , but now I just doesn't affect me at all I'm not renewing my membership after it expires at the end of this year I have no use for it anymore I've been lucky to have such a low # saw great shows ....seniority only matters if and that's a big IF you get lucky with the current lottery and score tickets ..

dimitrispearljam · January 2016

CantKeepmedown said:
It's really not a hard concept to understand. Seniority only means something if you get selected for reserved seats. If me and some dude who just became a member last month each get MSG reserved tix, you can bet my seats will be better. But it doesn't mean I deserve a ticket any more than he does.

It's never not been any different than that. Even back in the day, people with 4 digit fanclub numbers had to get their post cards in on time and hope that there were enough tix for the show they selected.

Much like now, you have to get your entry in on time. And even if you do, it doesn't guarantee you jack shit.

Now, did people have a much easier time in the F5 days? Absolutely. Some had quicker computers, some knew how to bypass certain screens, and some just had better luck. But there were plenty of people on these boards bitching because their screen timed out, or the site crashed for them, or whatever. And as a group, people made a big stink out of it, enough so that the 10C listened and changed things to the lottery.

Is it that difficult to have more people like u around here who have common sense?

Lost In Ohio · January 2016

CantKeepmedown said:
Now, did people have a much easier time in the F5 days? Absolutely. Some had quicker computers, some knew how to bypass certain screens, and some just had better luck. But there were plenty of people on these boards bitching because their screen timed out, or the site crashed for them, or whatever. And as a group, people made a big stink out of it, enough so that the 10C listened and changed things to the lottery.

Indeed. I used a technique (available to anyone with a computer) in order to quickly snag the RSD mystery vinyl from last year. I still didn't rest until I had the order confirmation number, the order history and the email.

Now, granted, I walked away with an RNDM and color Music for Film, which weren't my first choices...

ckravitz · January 2016

The funny part is that even though seniority only plays a role in seat choice and not in admission, a good many members are actually choosing seat choice over admission by going all out GA in their lottery selections! Maybe they should flip it and make seating random and admission based on seniority. I'm kidding of course, but let's face it, the decision of which of the two elements (seats vs admission) seniority should apply to is quite arbitrary. It's not like there is some law of physics that says "seniority shall mean seating" so it could have easily been "seniority shall mean admission". I personally don't think that would have been wise but lets not pretend there is some universal right to have "fair entrance" capability to Pearl Jam shows. Maybe they should just ditch the numbers all together because if "fair" is the argument (which I don't really buy) then it should be "fair" throughout.

For the record, I'm perfectly fine with the way things are, it's just when fairness starts getting tossed around, I'm not sure any of us have the right to decide what is or isn't fair when it comes to attending a rock concert. If we don't like the rules we always have the option of not going at all.

HesCalledDyer · January 2016

Great post Poncier! I've been searching for that article all week!

lolobugg · January 2016

Poncier said:

Lost In Ohio said:
I think some people who says seniority counts for "guaranteed tickets" or should count are long-time members from the 90s...and here's why I say that.

In 1996, 98, 2000, whatever, the band used to tour a lot. They'd do NYC two shows, two shows in Philly, two or three shows in Boston, Mansfield, Hartford, etc. They'd do a show in Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati AND Indianapolis. They'd do two in Chicago. They'd do two in LA and one in San Diego and then three in San Francisco.

Well, not maybe not quite, but close. Someone in Chicago wouldn't have to travel to NYC or Philly because there were two Chicago shows, one in Milwaukee and one in Indianapolis. Add in the limits for tickets someone could buy and there was a "why should I even TRY for MSG when I know I have 4-5 shows within a few hours drive?"

They also had a LOT fewer members than they do now. A "high number" back then might have been 169xxx. When the band toured like crazy, there was less incentive to drive or fly long distances to see them, as you could see 3-4 shows within easy driving distance AND maybe do a half-day at work before the show.

There were also varying limits on the number of tickets someone could get via 10C, thus increasing the supply even more.

10C never said "we guarantee tickets to our members" but it probably FELT like they did.
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.

But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.

These two posts basically sum it up. the long time members that are not regular poster/visitors to the site are out of the loop. PJ is WAY more popular now than they were in the late 90s/mid 00s.
especially in the NE. no way 10club can meet all these demands. please choose your shows wisely!!!

and here is one for you long time members. I have heard everyone bitching about making 10club tix exclusive to their zip code or whatever.
The general onsale in 1996 was set up this way with ETM. you could only buy tix for a show if you lived in that state or a neighboring state. So, to help friends score some tix, I drove to Georgia and used a payphone to call for Charleston tix. an hour and a half of busy signals. now that's dedication you fucking whiners..

just kidding... I didn't get tix that way and I think that is a stupid idea. everyone should have a chance at tix. I enjoyed the F5 days but I am happy with the lottery.

member since 93/94.
lolo

Poncier · January 2016

lolobugg said:

Poncier said:

Lost In Ohio said:
I think some people who says seniority counts for "guaranteed tickets" or should count are long-time members from the 90s...and here's why I say that.

In 1996, 98, 2000, whatever, the band used to tour a lot. They'd do NYC two shows, two shows in Philly, two or three shows in Boston, Mansfield, Hartford, etc. They'd do a show in Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati AND Indianapolis. They'd do two in Chicago. They'd do two in LA and one in San Diego and then three in San Francisco.

Well, not maybe not quite, but close. Someone in Chicago wouldn't have to travel to NYC or Philly because there were two Chicago shows, one in Milwaukee and one in Indianapolis. Add in the limits for tickets someone could buy and there was a "why should I even TRY for MSG when I know I have 4-5 shows within a few hours drive?"

They also had a LOT fewer members than they do now. A "high number" back then might have been 169xxx. When the band toured like crazy, there was less incentive to drive or fly long distances to see them, as you could see 3-4 shows within easy driving distance AND maybe do a half-day at work before the show.

There were also varying limits on the number of tickets someone could get via 10C, thus increasing the supply even more.

10C never said "we guarantee tickets to our members" but it probably FELT like they did.
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.

But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
PJ is WAY more popular now than they were in the late 90s/mid 00s.
especially in the NE. no way 10club can meet all these demands. please choose your shows wisely!!!

lolo

Imagine the hue and cry here if they decide to go back to allowing you only 1 pair to 1 show per tour.
Some folks have no idea how good they have had it over the last 13 years. Its gotten tougher the past 5, but from 2003 for a good number of years, folks were able to score tix to multiple shows with relative ease.

Always had to go thru Ticketmaster for any shows beyond the 1 before than, and even in 2003, used my 10 club seats for Mansfield 1, but had to get Mansfield 2 and 3 thru Ticketmaster because they didn't do 10 club tickets for rollover shows back then.

History of 10 club tix and seniority

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