It's really not a hard concept to understand. Seniority only means something if you get selected for reserved seats. If me and some dude who just became a member last month each get MSG reserved tix, you can bet my seats will be better. But it doesn't mean I deserve a ticket any more than he does.
It's never not been any different than that. Even back in the day, people with 4 digit fanclub numbers had to get their post cards in on time and hope that there were enough tix for the show they selected.
Much like now, you have to get your entry in on time. And even if you do, it doesn't guarantee you jack shit.
Now, did people have a much easier time in the F5 days? Absolutely. Some had quicker computers, some knew how to bypass certain screens, and some just had better luck. But there were plenty of people on these boards bitching because their screen timed out, or the site crashed for them, or whatever. And as a group, people made a big stink out of it, enough so that the 10C listened and changed things to the lottery.
I think some people who says seniority counts for "guaranteed tickets" or should count are long-time members from the 90s...and here's why I say that.
In 1996, 98, 2000, whatever, the band used to tour a lot. They'd do NYC two shows, two shows in Philly, two or three shows in Boston, Mansfield, Hartford, etc. They'd do a show in Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati AND Indianapolis. They'd do two in Chicago. They'd do two in LA and one in San Diego and then three in San Francisco.
Well, not maybe not quite, but close. Someone in Chicago wouldn't have to travel to NYC or Philly because there were two Chicago shows, one in Milwaukee and one in Indianapolis. Add in the limits for tickets someone could buy and there was a "why should I even TRY for MSG when I know I have 4-5 shows within a few hours drive?"
They also had a LOT fewer members than they do now. A "high number" back then might have been 169xxx. When the band toured like crazy, there was less incentive to drive or fly long distances to see them, as you could see 3-4 shows within easy driving distance AND maybe do a half-day at work before the show.
There were also varying limits on the number of tickets someone could get via 10C, thus increasing the supply even more.
10C never said "we guarantee tickets to our members" but it probably FELT like they did.
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
It's funny how people still get worked up about this topic I have to admit it bothered me when they went to rows 1&2 & 9&10 random picking , but now I just doesn't affect me at all I'm not renewing my membership after it expires at the end of this year I have no use for it anymore I've been lucky to have such a low # saw great shows ....seniority only matters if and that's a big IF you get lucky with the current lottery and score tickets ..
It's really not a hard concept to understand. Seniority only means something if you get selected for reserved seats. If me and some dude who just became a member last month each get MSG reserved tix, you can bet my seats will be better. But it doesn't mean I deserve a ticket any more than he does.
It's never not been any different than that. Even back in the day, people with 4 digit fanclub numbers had to get their post cards in on time and hope that there were enough tix for the show they selected.
Much like now, you have to get your entry in on time. And even if you do, it doesn't guarantee you jack shit.
Now, did people have a much easier time in the F5 days? Absolutely. Some had quicker computers, some knew how to bypass certain screens, and some just had better luck. But there were plenty of people on these boards bitching because their screen timed out, or the site crashed for them, or whatever. And as a group, people made a big stink out of it, enough so that the 10C listened and changed things to the lottery.
Is it that difficult to have more people like u around here who have common sense?
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Now, did people have a much easier time in the F5 days? Absolutely. Some had quicker computers, some knew how to bypass certain screens, and some just had better luck. But there were plenty of people on these boards bitching because their screen timed out, or the site crashed for them, or whatever. And as a group, people made a big stink out of it, enough so that the 10C listened and changed things to the lottery.
Indeed. I used a technique (available to anyone with a computer) in order to quickly snag the RSD mystery vinyl from last year. I still didn't rest until I had the order confirmation number, the order history and the email.
Now, granted, I walked away with an RNDM and color Music for Film, which weren't my first choices...
Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
The funny part is that even though seniority only plays a role in seat choice and not in admission, a good many members are actually choosing seat choice over admission by going all out GA in their lottery selections! Maybe they should flip it and make seating random and admission based on seniority. I'm kidding of course, but let's face it, the decision of which of the two elements (seats vs admission) seniority should apply to is quite arbitrary. It's not like there is some law of physics that says "seniority shall mean seating" so it could have easily been "seniority shall mean admission". I personally don't think that would have been wise but lets not pretend there is some universal right to have "fair entrance" capability to Pearl Jam shows. Maybe they should just ditch the numbers all together because if "fair" is the argument (which I don't really buy) then it should be "fair" throughout.
For the record, I'm perfectly fine with the way things are, it's just when fairness starts getting tossed around, I'm not sure any of us have the right to decide what is or isn't fair when it comes to attending a rock concert. If we don't like the rules we always have the option of not going at all.
I think some people who says seniority counts for "guaranteed tickets" or should count are long-time members from the 90s...and here's why I say that.
In 1996, 98, 2000, whatever, the band used to tour a lot. They'd do NYC two shows, two shows in Philly, two or three shows in Boston, Mansfield, Hartford, etc. They'd do a show in Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati AND Indianapolis. They'd do two in Chicago. They'd do two in LA and one in San Diego and then three in San Francisco.
Well, not maybe not quite, but close. Someone in Chicago wouldn't have to travel to NYC or Philly because there were two Chicago shows, one in Milwaukee and one in Indianapolis. Add in the limits for tickets someone could buy and there was a "why should I even TRY for MSG when I know I have 4-5 shows within a few hours drive?"
They also had a LOT fewer members than they do now. A "high number" back then might have been 169xxx. When the band toured like crazy, there was less incentive to drive or fly long distances to see them, as you could see 3-4 shows within easy driving distance AND maybe do a half-day at work before the show.
There were also varying limits on the number of tickets someone could get via 10C, thus increasing the supply even more.
10C never said "we guarantee tickets to our members" but it probably FELT like they did.
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
These two posts basically sum it up. the long time members that are not regular poster/visitors to the site are out of the loop. PJ is WAY more popular now than they were in the late 90s/mid 00s. especially in the NE. no way 10club can meet all these demands. please choose your shows wisely!!!
and here is one for you long time members. I have heard everyone bitching about making 10club tix exclusive to their zip code or whatever. The general onsale in 1996 was set up this way with ETM. you could only buy tix for a show if you lived in that state or a neighboring state. So, to help friends score some tix, I drove to Georgia and used a payphone to call for Charleston tix. an hour and a half of busy signals. now that's dedication you fucking whiners.. just kidding... I didn't get tix that way and I think that is a stupid idea. everyone should have a chance at tix. I enjoyed the F5 days but I am happy with the lottery.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
I think some people who says seniority counts for "guaranteed tickets" or should count are long-time members from the 90s...and here's why I say that.
In 1996, 98, 2000, whatever, the band used to tour a lot. They'd do NYC two shows, two shows in Philly, two or three shows in Boston, Mansfield, Hartford, etc. They'd do a show in Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati AND Indianapolis. They'd do two in Chicago. They'd do two in LA and one in San Diego and then three in San Francisco.
Well, not maybe not quite, but close. Someone in Chicago wouldn't have to travel to NYC or Philly because there were two Chicago shows, one in Milwaukee and one in Indianapolis. Add in the limits for tickets someone could buy and there was a "why should I even TRY for MSG when I know I have 4-5 shows within a few hours drive?"
They also had a LOT fewer members than they do now. A "high number" back then might have been 169xxx. When the band toured like crazy, there was less incentive to drive or fly long distances to see them, as you could see 3-4 shows within easy driving distance AND maybe do a half-day at work before the show.
There were also varying limits on the number of tickets someone could get via 10C, thus increasing the supply even more.
10C never said "we guarantee tickets to our members" but it probably FELT like they did.
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
PJ is WAY more popular now than they were in the late 90s/mid 00s. especially in the NE. no way 10club can meet all these demands. please choose your shows wisely!!!
lolo
Imagine the hue and cry here if they decide to go back to allowing you only 1 pair to 1 show per tour. Some folks have no idea how good they have had it over the last 13 years. Its gotten tougher the past 5, but from 2003 for a good number of years, folks were able to score tix to multiple shows with relative ease.
Always had to go thru Ticketmaster for any shows beyond the 1 before than, and even in 2003, used my 10 club seats for Mansfield 1, but had to get Mansfield 2 and 3 thru Ticketmaster because they didn't do 10 club tickets for rollover shows back then.
No way pj is more popular than 98. They seem more popular because they play a heck of a lot less shows so the demand is way more than the supply. I think half the shows this tour won't even sell out. In 98, pretty much every show was sold out. And pj has always been popular in the northeast. However I doubt they could still sell out Randall s two nights in a row.
No way pj is more popular than 98. They seem more popular because they play a heck of a lot less shows so the demand is way more than the supply. I think half the shows this tour won't even sell out. In 98, pretty much every show was sold out. And pj has always been popular in the northeast. However I doubt they could still sell out Randall s two nights in a row.
They aren't more popular with the general public, but their live reputation is as strong as ever which is fuelling the increase in 10 club membership. Full scale tours would alleviate a lot of the demand issues (not everywhere of course), but it appears those days are gone.
When I listen to you guys debate and argue about this, I think some of the issues are pretty obvious. "Fair" is generally going to be in the perspective of whose self interests are being served.
If you have been a member since the 90's and you have a low Fan Club number you generally are going to side with this current system being less fair. If you are a newer member this system serves you better and is more "Fair".
Find me someone who has a 4-5 digit Fan Club number who thinks this is more "Fair", and I will tell you they are trying to sound like a nice guy, but inside they are lying. Show me a guy who joined last year, who would prefer all reserved seating with him being in the back of the line, with no shot at GA, and him thinking that is more "Fair" and will think the same.
I personally like the old system better, but at least I am honest about why, it is because it served me better. It least I can own that. I'm not going to say what is "FAIR" or "UNFAIR. At heart, I love Pearl Jam, and I want to see them from the best seats possible. It doesn't make me bad that I'm not thinking about the rest of you, but it certainly makes me partial and biased to have a debate or argument about it.
Post edited by steved on
1994 - Pensacola, Miami, Atlanta - 1995 - Milwaukee, Milwaukee, New Orleans (Tickets to Phoenix, Las Cruces, Austin, Shows Canceled) - 1996 - Randalls Island, Randalls Island, Charlotte, N.Charleston, Ft. Lauderdale - 1997 - Oakland-1998 - Alpine Valley, Alpine Valley, Chicago, West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach - 2000 - West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach, Phoenix, Las Vegas (10th Anniversary Show) - 2003 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Atlanta, Nashville, Camden, Camden, MSG, MSG - 2004 - Kissimmee, Fl - 2006 - Irving Plaza, Albany, Hartford, Denver, Denver, Las Vegas - 2007 - Ed w/ Jack Irons & Flea in LA - 2008 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Columbia, Camden, Camden, Washington D.C. - 2009 - L.A., San Diego, Philly Spectrum Night 3 & 4 - 2010 - New Orleans, Columbus, Indianapolis, Hartford, MSG, MSG - 2011 - Ed - Hartford, Providence, Boston - 2011 - Alpine Valley X2 (PJ20), Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver - 2012 - Ed - Ft. Lauderdale x2, - 2012 / 2014 Beautiful Daughter "Emily" born 11/07/12. On the bench for 3 years! She's really cute though! - 2015 - Mexico City - 2016 - Ft. Laud, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Greenville, Raleigh, Columbia, Philly 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2, Wrigley Night 1 & 2 - 2016 - MSG, San Francisco, San Francisco, Seattle, Seattle (TOTD) - 2018 - Seattle 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2
No way pj is more popular than 98. They seem more popular because they play a heck of a lot less shows so the demand is way more than the supply. I think half the shows this tour won't even sell out. In 98, pretty much every show was sold out. And pj has always been popular in the northeast. However I doubt they could still sell out Randall s two nights in a row.
You're probably right on the shows not selling out. Anyone and their brother will be able to buy tickets for the southern shows on TicketMaster. Look at those percentages for more proof on that.
There's a general feeling that if a pit isn't selling as fast, they'll bump people from the seats into the pit. If I have Jacksonville RES as #3 and Jacksonville GA as #4 and that pit still has tickets left, I'm getting pit tickets. They can always bump 10C seats into the general public, but can't do that with GA tickets.
It'll be interesting to see photos of the seated sections in Florida, North Carolina, etc.
...and we wonder why they never play the south. I think these percentages prove why.
Then again, if people wanted to skip the NYC experience for Jacksonville or Raleigh or Tampa, wherever, they would have had a much greater chance to obtain 10C seats and get many of the same songs, etc.
Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
What's often left out of the 10c ticket debate is what the band wants and why. The current system works really well as a compromise for everyone involved. PJ is (thankfully) a relevant band. In order to do this, they need new, and younger, fans. Allowing new fans, via the 10c, the chance to get up front in GA makes this happen. The band was also tired of the same entitled, semi-creepy, low 10c number fans in the front row all the time. They went to the lotto, and now GA. The energy is much better with the GA shows, and that's what the band wants; good energy without people clobbering each other. GA is a good mix of oldsters and youngsters, with the goal of rocking out. Those who can't stand for more than 2 hours have their seats.
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SkeeterB
If I knew where it was, I would take you there... Posts: 423
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
This is correct. Although you weren't "guaranteed" tickets, no one ever got shut out. So in essence, you really were guaranteed tickets. So to say tickets were never guaranteed, from a certain point of view, that's not necessarily correct.
Anyway, the other shut out issue was in 2003 with the two MSG shows. They ended up adding and offering tickets to Holmdel in lieu of MSG because MSG demand was so big, and the offer was to all that submitted for tickets, not the last requests to arrive in Seattle. I believe there 7000-8000 fan club tickets sold at each of these MSG shows. The demand for this show was so big for a few reasons: they were originally the last two shows of the tour, and these were the first shows at MSG since the Breath campaign of 98. Of course, the unlimited ticket thing helped, as did I believe these were on a weekend (I could be wrong on that).
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
This is correct. Although you weren't "guaranteed" tickets, no one ever got shut out. So in essence, you really were guaranteed tickets. So to say tickets were never guaranteed, from a certain point of view, that's not necessarily correct.
Anyway, the other shut out issue was in 2003 with the two MSG shows. They ended up adding and offering tickets to Holmdel in lieu of MSG because MSG demand was so big, and the offer was to all that submitted for tickets, not the last requests to arrive in Seattle. I believe there 7000-8000 fan club tickets sold at each of these MSG shows. The demand for this show was so big for a few reasons: they were originally the last two shows of the tour, and these were the first shows at MSG since the Breath campaign of 98. Of course, the unlimited ticket thing helped, as did I believe these were on a weekend (I could be wrong on that).
The way I see it, back in '03 when it was a virtual lock to get tickets, that had less to do with the system (F5 vs lottery) than it did the size of the club / demand for the show. 10c never made a guarantee, the odds were just in your favor. By definition, a guarantee is a formal promise or assurance. Unless I'm mistaken, 10c never guaranteed tickets.
I've had mixed results from both F5 & the lottery. The biggest reason I like the lottery, is the fact that my job doesn't allow me to sit at my PC for hours trying to score tickets. I have to work. How is F5 fair to members who may be roofers, or EMTs, police officers or the firefighter who chimed in? Whether those guys are 1, 10 or 20 year members of the fan club, they are entitled to their shot at tickets as much as everyone else, and F5 doesn't allow that unless you take time off from work (which isn't impossible, but once the system started crashing & sales were postponed for 24 / 48 hours, then what?)
I think from that perspective, the lottery system is more fair.
As far as the whole seating vs GA, I think Go Beavers nailed it. It's all well & good for us to debate what system is fair, but in the end it comes down to what the band wants. The band wants GA, we can either like that, or quit (or complain as nauseum).
Seniority still counts for exactly what it always did, the best SEATS in the house. The location of those seats however, changed based on what the band wants.
Long live the GA. If you want the rail bad enough, you can take the day off & wait in line.
I wish my number was lower. So does everybody. There is a benefit to having a low number. I hope when I go to pick up my tickets at MSG I will be side stage lower level but I won't. The members with the low numbers will have those. I'm not jealous. And I'm glad the long standing members get those kick ass seats after all their years in the club. I wish my number was lower.
5 star thread. They were never guaranteed. Thought so, but I remember calling in in 96 for Randall's tix, so who knows. Thanks for finally setting the record straight. They never guaranteed tix to members at any time.
I wish my number was lower. So does everybody. There is a benefit to having a low number. I hope when I go to pick up my tickets at MSG I will be side stage lower level but I won't. The members with the low numbers will have those. I'm not jealous. And I'm glad the long standing members get those kick ass seats after all their years in the club. I wish my number was lower.
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
This is correct. Although you weren't "guaranteed" tickets, no one ever got shut out. So in essence, you really were guaranteed tickets. So to say tickets were never guaranteed, from a certain point of view, that's not necessarily correct.
Anyway, the other shut out issue was in 2003 with the two MSG shows. They ended up adding and offering tickets to Holmdel in lieu of MSG because MSG demand was so big, and the offer was to all that submitted for tickets, not the last requests to arrive in Seattle. I believe there 7000-8000 fan club tickets sold at each of these MSG shows. The demand for this show was so big for a few reasons: they were originally the last two shows of the tour, and these were the first shows at MSG since the Breath campaign of 98. Of course, the unlimited ticket thing helped, as did I believe these were on a weekend (I could be wrong on that).
The way I see it, back in '03 when it was a virtual lock to get tickets, that had less to do with the system (F5 vs lottery) than it did the size of the club / demand for the show.
In 2003, the system was neither of those. It was the last year of mail in with index cards. It was also the first tour members could get unlimited shows. The reason people didn't get shut out (aside from some at MSG as skeeter pointed out, who then got offered tix for Holmdel) was three fold, a smaller membership (article mentions 40,000 current members at the time), extensive full scale tour with plenty of shows in all regions of the US and the ability for 10 club to get far more tickets from promoters than they can today (If they could get 8,000 seats for each MSG show today, the odds would have been almost palatable in the lottery).
I think honestly (just my opinion) that this rule change to unlimited show purchases for 10 club tickets is a big factor in the membership ranks swelling. If they had never moved off of the one pair per tour limit they had up through 2000, I think there'd be a lot less current members. Some folks wouldn't find it a good value to spend 20 or 40 bucks annually to get one pair of tickets every few years.
Until 2003, you could only get one pair of tix per tour. So basically everybody got what they put In for (there was one notable exception that the article mentions, Toledo 1996). In 2003 they started with unlimited shows, but I don't think anyone was shut out that tour because they could still basically get as many tix as the felt they needed from promoters.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
This is correct. Although you weren't "guaranteed" tickets, no one ever got shut out. So in essence, you really were guaranteed tickets. So to say tickets were never guaranteed, from a certain point of view, that's not necessarily correct.
Anyway, the other shut out issue was in 2003 with the two MSG shows. They ended up adding and offering tickets to Holmdel in lieu of MSG because MSG demand was so big, and the offer was to all that submitted for tickets, not the last requests to arrive in Seattle. I believe there 7000-8000 fan club tickets sold at each of these MSG shows. The demand for this show was so big for a few reasons: they were originally the last two shows of the tour, and these were the first shows at MSG since the Breath campaign of 98. Of course, the unlimited ticket thing helped, as did I believe these were on a weekend (I could be wrong on that).
The way I see it, back in '03 when it was a virtual lock to get tickets, that had less to do with the system (F5 vs lottery) than it did the size of the club / demand for the show.
In 2003, the system was neither of those. It was the last year of mail in with index cards. It was also the first tour members could get unlimited shows. The reason people didn't get shut out (aside from some at MSG as skeeter pointed out, who then got offered tix for Holmdel) was three fold, a smaller membership (article mentions 40,000 current members at the time), extensive full scale tour with plenty of shows in all regions of the US and the ability for 10 club to get far more tickets from promoters than they can today (If they could get 8,000 seats for each MSG show today, the odds would have been almost palatable in the lottery).
I think honestly (just my opinion) that this rule change to unlimited show purchases for 10 club tickets is a big factor in the membership ranks swelling. If they had never moved off of the one pair per tour limit they had up through 2000, I think there'd be a lot less current members. Some folks wouldn't find it a good value to spend 20 or 40 bucks annually to get one pair of tickets every few years.
I did not know '03 was still the postcard system, I stand corrected.
I also agree that unlimited shows contribute to the problem.
If we were all limited to one show each (at least until everyone gets a show) them there would be a lot less unhappy people.
I don't necessarily want them to change that rule (for selfish reasons..... At least I can admit it, right?) but it would be a lot more fair if they did.
I got first row in front of Ed at holmdel due to the overselling at msg 2. Holmdel is a vastly underrated show imo. If you haven't ever checked out the set list do it! It's one of the most unique set lists in the history of the band.
Things are fluid and always have been. in a few years when their kids are older this band might be touring a lot more often. Lots of people will be kicking themselves for punting their membership. Also, they seem to slowly be moving towards stadiums. Playing Giant's stadium would of made getting 10C seats much easier. Don't get stuck on one missed opportunity for tickets and miss the big picture.
What's often left out of the 10c ticket debate is what the band wants and why. The current system works really well as a compromise for everyone involved. PJ is (thankfully) a relevant band. In order to do this, they need new, and younger, fans. Allowing new fans, via the 10c, the chance to get up front in GA makes this happen. The band was also tired of the same entitled, semi-creepy, low 10c number fans in the front row all the time. They went to the lotto, and now GA. The energy is much better with the GA shows, and that's what the band wants; good energy without people clobbering each other. GA is a good mix of oldsters and youngsters, with the goal of rocking out. Those who can't stand for more than 2 hours have their seats.
Im a reasonable newbie to 10c, joined 2 years ago but its not because im a new fan, been that since 1990 but I was struggling in the UK to get to see these guys play live, theres been 21 shows in the uk in the last 22 years and between 2001 and 2010 there were 9 shows, despite me being a regular at many rock shows, the Pearl Jam announcements always passed me by, not publicised particularly well over here, otherwise Id have been there. I get your point though about getting some new energy down the front. as for me, im 51 years old and just joined a band fan club, my wife didn't understand it at all, lol. Doesn't look like a Europe show is on the cards so Im praying for fenway tickets through the lottery, all fans being equal
London, Hyde Park 25/6/10 Isle of Wight 23/6/12 London, Hammersmith 31/7/12 (EV) Leeds 8/7/14 Milton Keynes 11/7/14 London, Shepherds Bush Empire 11/11/14 (EV The Who tribute) Boston, Fenway Park 05/08/16 Boston, Fenway Park 07/08/16 London, Hammersmith Apollo 2017 (EV) London, Hammersmith Apollo 2017 (EV) Taormina, Sicily June 2017 (EV) London, O2 Arena 18th June 2018 London, O2 Arena 19th June 2018 :(
So I'll add this, and hopefully someone can back me up. The only time Seniority being a factor in getting tickets (that I know of) was for the Irving Plaza NY 2006 show. I waited a long time in line to get tickets to that show because you had to buy the album on release day. I heard (forget where, probably saw here somewhere) that long time low number NYC fans had the opportunity to purchase tickets to the show, I think someone posted the e-mail with the details. I remember logging in and seeing the tickets for sale but couldn't buy. So I don't know if this was just a personal favor for friends of the band or something or what, but I do know it happened.
Wouldn't it be funny if the world ended in 2010, with lots of fire?
Things are fluid and always have been. in a few years when their kids are older this band might be touring a lot more often. Lots of people will be kicking themselves for punting their membership. Also, they seem to slowly be moving towards stadiums. Playing Giant's stadium would of made getting 10C seats much easier. Don't get stuck on one missed opportunity for tickets and miss the big picture.
I really hope they don't make the leap to stadiums. 17k crowd as opposed to 60-80k?
No thanks.
I also don't think they would sell out..... Worcester 2 didn't sell out in 2013. If they couldn't do 34k (est.) in two nights, I doubt they could could sell 55k + at Gillette.
(Gillette's capacity is 67k for FB games, idk the concert capacity..... Stabbing in the dark w/ that #.
Things are fluid and always have been. in a few years when their kids are older this band might be touring a lot more often. Lots of people will be kicking themselves for punting their membership. Also, they seem to slowly be moving towards stadiums. Playing Giant's stadium would of made getting 10C seats much easier. Don't get stuck on one missed opportunity for tickets and miss the big picture.
I really hope they don't make the leap to stadiums. 17k crowd as opposed to 60-80k?
No thanks.
I also don't think they would sell out..... Worcester 2 didn't sell out in 2013. If they couldn't do 34k (est.) in two nights, I doubt they could could sell 55k + at Gillette.
(Gillette's capacity is 67k for FB games, idk the concert capacity..... Stabbing in the dark w/ that #.
Things are fluid and always have been. in a few years when their kids are older this band might be touring a lot more often. Lots of people will be kicking themselves for punting their membership. Also, they seem to slowly be moving towards stadiums. Playing Giant's stadium would of made getting 10C seats much easier. Don't get stuck on one missed opportunity for tickets and miss the big picture.
I really hope they don't make the leap to stadiums. 17k crowd as opposed to 60-80k?
No thanks.
I also don't think they would sell out..... Worcester 2 didn't sell out in 2013. If they couldn't do 34k (est.) in two nights, I doubt they could could sell 55k + at Gillette.
(Gillette's capacity is 67k for FB games, idk the concert capacity..... Stabbing in the dark w/ that #.
i'm wondering if both fenways will sell out.
I think Friday will..... Idk about Sunday. My wife's not interested in Sunday, so I'm going to go for one in the public onsale. I think I should be ok for a single.
Comments
It's never not been any different than that. Even back in the day, people with 4 digit fanclub numbers had to get their post cards in on time and hope that there were enough tix for the show they selected.
Much like now, you have to get your entry in on time. And even if you do, it doesn't guarantee you jack shit.
Now, did people have a much easier time in the F5 days? Absolutely. Some had quicker computers, some knew how to bypass certain screens, and some just had better luck. But there were plenty of people on these boards bitching because their screen timed out, or the site crashed for them, or whatever. And as a group, people made a big stink out of it, enough so that the 10C listened and changed things to the lottery.
But back then they did full scale tours, so a lot more shows during tour years meant a lot more opportunities, now with shorter tours (and larger fan club membership) coupled with a cap on the amount of tickets Livenation will give 10 club, demand far outweighs supply in most markets.
You're assuming the post lottery whiners can read
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Now, granted, I walked away with an RNDM and color Music for Film, which weren't my first choices...
For the record, I'm perfectly fine with the way things are, it's just when fairness starts getting tossed around, I'm not sure any of us have the right to decide what is or isn't fair when it comes to attending a rock concert. If we don't like the rules we always have the option of not going at all.
especially in the NE. no way 10club can meet all these demands. please choose your shows wisely!!!
and here is one for you long time members. I have heard everyone bitching about making 10club tix exclusive to their zip code or whatever.
The general onsale in 1996 was set up this way with ETM. you could only buy tix for a show if you lived in that state or a neighboring state. So, to help friends score some tix, I drove to Georgia and used a payphone to call for Charleston tix. an hour and a half of busy signals. now that's dedication you fucking whiners..
member since 93/94.
lolo
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
Some folks have no idea how good they have had it over the last 13 years. Its gotten tougher the past 5, but from 2003 for a good number of years, folks were able to score tix to multiple shows with relative ease.
Always had to go thru Ticketmaster for any shows beyond the 1 before than, and even in 2003, used my 10 club seats for Mansfield 1, but had to get Mansfield 2 and 3 thru Ticketmaster because they didn't do 10 club tickets for rollover shows back then.
And pj has always been popular in the northeast. However I doubt they could still sell out Randall s two nights in a row.
If you have been a member since the 90's and you have a low Fan Club number you generally are going to side with this current system being less fair. If you are a newer member this system serves you better and is more "Fair".
Find me someone who has a 4-5 digit Fan Club number who thinks this is more "Fair", and I will tell you they are trying to sound like a nice guy, but inside they are lying. Show me a guy who joined last year, who would prefer all reserved seating with him being in the back of the line, with no shot at GA, and him thinking that is more "Fair" and will think the same.
I personally like the old system better, but at least I am honest about why, it is because it served me better. It least I can own that. I'm not going to say what is "FAIR" or "UNFAIR. At heart, I love Pearl Jam, and I want to see them from the best seats possible. It doesn't make me bad that I'm not thinking about the rest of you, but it certainly makes me partial and biased to have a debate or argument about it.
There's a general feeling that if a pit isn't selling as fast, they'll bump people from the seats into the pit. If I have Jacksonville RES as #3 and Jacksonville GA as #4 and that pit still has tickets left, I'm getting pit tickets. They can always bump 10C seats into the general public, but can't do that with GA tickets.
It'll be interesting to see photos of the seated sections in Florida, North Carolina, etc.
...and we wonder why they never play the south. I think these percentages prove why.
Then again, if people wanted to skip the NYC experience for Jacksonville or Raleigh or Tampa, wherever, they would have had a much greater chance to obtain 10C seats and get many of the same songs, etc.
Anyway, the other shut out issue was in 2003 with the two MSG shows. They ended up adding and offering tickets to Holmdel in lieu of MSG because MSG demand was so big, and the offer was to all that submitted for tickets, not the last requests to arrive in Seattle. I believe there 7000-8000 fan club tickets sold at each of these MSG shows. The demand for this show was so big for a few reasons: they were originally the last two shows of the tour, and these were the first shows at MSG since the Breath campaign of 98. Of course, the unlimited ticket thing helped, as did I believe these were on a weekend (I could be wrong on that).
www.amazingathletes.com/northchi
I've had mixed results from both F5 & the lottery. The biggest reason I like the lottery, is the fact that my job doesn't allow me to sit at my PC for hours trying to score tickets. I have to work. How is F5 fair to members who may be roofers, or EMTs, police officers or the firefighter who chimed in? Whether those guys are 1, 10 or 20 year members of the fan club, they are entitled to their shot at tickets as much as everyone else, and F5 doesn't allow that unless you take time off from work (which isn't impossible, but once the system started crashing & sales were postponed for 24 / 48 hours, then what?)
I think from that perspective, the lottery system is more fair.
As far as the whole seating vs GA, I think Go Beavers nailed it. It's all well & good for us to debate what system is fair, but in the end it comes down to what the band wants. The band wants GA, we can either like that, or quit (or complain as nauseum).
Seniority still counts for exactly what it always did, the best SEATS in the house. The location of those seats however, changed based on what the band wants.
Long live the GA. If you want the rail bad enough, you can take the day off & wait in line.
(Huh huh...... Beavers)
I think honestly (just my opinion) that this rule change to unlimited show purchases for 10 club tickets is a big factor in the membership ranks swelling. If they had never moved off of the one pair per tour limit they had up through 2000, I think there'd be a lot less current members. Some folks wouldn't find it a good value to spend 20 or 40 bucks annually to get one pair of tickets every few years.
I also agree that unlimited shows contribute to the problem.
If we were all limited to one show each (at least until everyone gets a show) them there would be a lot less unhappy people.
I don't necessarily want them to change that rule (for selfish reasons..... At least I can admit it, right?) but it would be a lot more fair if they did.
I get your point though about getting some new energy down the front.
as for me, im 51 years old and just joined a band fan club, my wife didn't understand it at all, lol.
Doesn't look like a Europe show is on the cards so Im praying for fenway tickets through the lottery, all fans being equal
Isle of Wight 23/6/12
London, Hammersmith 31/7/12 (EV)
Leeds 8/7/14
Milton Keynes 11/7/14
London, Shepherds Bush Empire 11/11/14 (EV The Who tribute)
Boston, Fenway Park 05/08/16
Boston, Fenway Park 07/08/16
London, Hammersmith Apollo 2017 (EV)
London, Hammersmith Apollo 2017 (EV)
Taormina, Sicily June 2017 (EV)
London, O2 Arena 18th June 2018
London, O2 Arena 19th June 2018 :(
No thanks.
I also don't think they would sell out..... Worcester 2 didn't sell out in 2013. If they couldn't do 34k (est.) in two nights, I doubt they could could sell 55k + at Gillette.
(Gillette's capacity is 67k for FB games, idk the concert capacity..... Stabbing in the dark w/ that #.