Vault 5 orders begin shipping today - UPDATED.

darthvedder said:

Wow, I just dug up my old mp3 copy from Basecamp and it sounds so much more dynamic than the FLAC copy I just bought. That truly makes me sad. Once again, I hope the vinyl sounds better.

There's also some dialog cut after Jeremy. The shoe speech "I love me, I love me, I love me...apparently they do love themselves more than Mudhoney" has been cut for the vault release.

Here's the DR numbers:

First, the FLAC:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:37:50

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / 1993/11/30 Las Vegas, NV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7 0.00 dB -7.77 dB 5:05 01-Even Flow
DR7 0.00 dB -7.60 dB 3:19 02-Once
DR7 0.00 dB -7.53 dB 4:25 03-Deep
DR6 0.00 dB -7.49 dB 5:45 04-Jeremy
DR6 0.00 dB -7.67 dB 3:39 05-Dissident
DR7 0.00 dB -9.15 dB 5:21 06-Daughter
DR6 0.00 dB -7.86 dB 3:03 07-Go
DR7 0.00 dB -7.97 dB 2:59 08-Animal
DR7 0.00 dB -7.31 dB 3:30 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR7 0.00 dB -8.17 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR6 0.00 dB -8.61 dB 5:54 01-Black
DR6 0.00 dB -7.62 dB 2:30 02-Blood
DR6 -0.01 dB -7.62 dB 4:56 03-Alive
DR10 -6.67 dB -21.07 dB 0:24 04-Encore Break 1
DR6 0.00 dB -7.58 dB 5:06 05-Rearviewmirror
DR6 0.00 dB -7.36 dB 2:55 06-Whipping
DR6 0.00 dB -7.61 dB 3:13 07-Leash
DR6 0.00 dB -7.32 dB 6:04 08-Porch
DR10 -0.10 dB -15.39 dB 1:00 09-Encore Break 2
DR6 -0.02 dB -7.84 dB 3:50 10-Swallow My Pride
DR6 0.00 dB -8.02 dB 3:52 11-Ain't Nothing To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 21
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 927 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

MP3:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:35:41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / Aladdin Theater, Las Vegas, 1993
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.62 dB -12.90 dB 5:03 01-Evenflow
DR10 -0.76 dB -12.62 dB 3:17 02-Once
DR11 -0.56 dB -12.67 dB 4:24 03-Deep
DR10 -0.20 dB -13.06 dB 6:27 04-Jeremy
DR10 -1.17 dB -12.69 dB 3:36 05-Dissident
DR11 -0.75 dB -14.35 dB 5:26 06-Daughter
DR10 -1.35 dB -12.89 dB 3:01 07-Go
DR10 -0.92 dB -12.91 dB 2:50 08-Animal
DR10 -0.66 dB -12.57 dB 3:39 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR11 -0.12 dB -13.21 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR10 -0.50 dB -13.63 dB 5:37 11-Black
DR11 -0.66 dB -12.89 dB 2:39 12-Blood
DR10 -0.80 dB -13.02 dB 5:16 13-Alive
DR10 -0.54 dB -12.66 dB 5:03 14-Rearview Mirror
DR10 0.00 dB -12.21 dB 2:40 15-Whippin
DR10 -1.01 dB -12.58 dB 3:10 16-Leash
DR10 -1.15 dB -12.89 dB 6:55 17-Porch
DR10 -0.70 dB -13.32 dB 3:55 18-Swallow My Pride
DR10 0.00 dB -13.11 dB 4:12 19-Ain't Nothin' To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 19
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bitrate: 256 kbps
Codec: MP3
================================================================================

WOW! well this definitely will not take the place of my old MP3s, and will probably not be my "go to" version. (Insert Sad face here)

2-feign-reluctance said:

MedozK said:

darthvedder said:

Wow, I just dug up my old mp3 copy from Basecamp and it sounds so much more dynamic than the FLAC copy I just bought. That truly makes me sad. Once again, I hope the vinyl sounds better.

There's also some dialog cut after Jeremy. The shoe speech "I love me, I love me, I love me...apparently they do love themselves more than Mudhoney" has been cut for the vault release.

Here's the DR numbers:

First, the FLAC:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:37:50

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / 1993/11/30 Las Vegas, NV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7 0.00 dB -7.77 dB 5:05 01-Even Flow
DR7 0.00 dB -7.60 dB 3:19 02-Once
DR7 0.00 dB -7.53 dB 4:25 03-Deep
DR6 0.00 dB -7.49 dB 5:45 04-Jeremy
DR6 0.00 dB -7.67 dB 3:39 05-Dissident
DR7 0.00 dB -9.15 dB 5:21 06-Daughter
DR6 0.00 dB -7.86 dB 3:03 07-Go
DR7 0.00 dB -7.97 dB 2:59 08-Animal
DR7 0.00 dB -7.31 dB 3:30 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR7 0.00 dB -8.17 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR6 0.00 dB -8.61 dB 5:54 01-Black
DR6 0.00 dB -7.62 dB 2:30 02-Blood
DR6 -0.01 dB -7.62 dB 4:56 03-Alive
DR10 -6.67 dB -21.07 dB 0:24 04-Encore Break 1
DR6 0.00 dB -7.58 dB 5:06 05-Rearviewmirror
DR6 0.00 dB -7.36 dB 2:55 06-Whipping
DR6 0.00 dB -7.61 dB 3:13 07-Leash
DR6 0.00 dB -7.32 dB 6:04 08-Porch
DR10 -0.10 dB -15.39 dB 1:00 09-Encore Break 2
DR6 -0.02 dB -7.84 dB 3:50 10-Swallow My Pride
DR6 0.00 dB -8.02 dB 3:52 11-Ain't Nothing To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 21
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 927 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

MP3:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:35:41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / Aladdin Theater, Las Vegas, 1993
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.62 dB -12.90 dB 5:03 01-Evenflow
DR10 -0.76 dB -12.62 dB 3:17 02-Once
DR11 -0.56 dB -12.67 dB 4:24 03-Deep
DR10 -0.20 dB -13.06 dB 6:27 04-Jeremy
DR10 -1.17 dB -12.69 dB 3:36 05-Dissident
DR11 -0.75 dB -14.35 dB 5:26 06-Daughter
DR10 -1.35 dB -12.89 dB 3:01 07-Go
DR10 -0.92 dB -12.91 dB 2:50 08-Animal
DR10 -0.66 dB -12.57 dB 3:39 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR11 -0.12 dB -13.21 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR10 -0.50 dB -13.63 dB 5:37 11-Black
DR11 -0.66 dB -12.89 dB 2:39 12-Blood
DR10 -0.80 dB -13.02 dB 5:16 13-Alive
DR10 -0.54 dB -12.66 dB 5:03 14-Rearview Mirror
DR10 0.00 dB -12.21 dB 2:40 15-Whippin
DR10 -1.01 dB -12.58 dB 3:10 16-Leash
DR10 -1.15 dB -12.89 dB 6:55 17-Porch
DR10 -0.70 dB -13.32 dB 3:55 18-Swallow My Pride
DR10 0.00 dB -13.11 dB 4:12 19-Ain't Nothin' To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 19
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bitrate: 256 kbps
Codec: MP3
================================================================================

WOW! well this definitely will not take the place of my old MP3s, and will probably not be my "go to" version. (Insert Sad face here)

Are these audible differences to human ears?

Just less dynamic. Louder, more compressed, not as good at higher volumes.

MedozK said:

2-feign-reluctance said:

MedozK said:

darthvedder said:

Wow, I just dug up my old mp3 copy from Basecamp and it sounds so much more dynamic than the FLAC copy I just bought. That truly makes me sad. Once again, I hope the vinyl sounds better.

There's also some dialog cut after Jeremy. The shoe speech "I love me, I love me, I love me...apparently they do love themselves more than Mudhoney" has been cut for the vault release.

Here's the DR numbers:

First, the FLAC:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:37:50

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / 1993/11/30 Las Vegas, NV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7 0.00 dB -7.77 dB 5:05 01-Even Flow
DR7 0.00 dB -7.60 dB 3:19 02-Once
DR7 0.00 dB -7.53 dB 4:25 03-Deep
DR6 0.00 dB -7.49 dB 5:45 04-Jeremy
DR6 0.00 dB -7.67 dB 3:39 05-Dissident
DR7 0.00 dB -9.15 dB 5:21 06-Daughter
DR6 0.00 dB -7.86 dB 3:03 07-Go
DR7 0.00 dB -7.97 dB 2:59 08-Animal
DR7 0.00 dB -7.31 dB 3:30 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR7 0.00 dB -8.17 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR6 0.00 dB -8.61 dB 5:54 01-Black
DR6 0.00 dB -7.62 dB 2:30 02-Blood
DR6 -0.01 dB -7.62 dB 4:56 03-Alive
DR10 -6.67 dB -21.07 dB 0:24 04-Encore Break 1
DR6 0.00 dB -7.58 dB 5:06 05-Rearviewmirror
DR6 0.00 dB -7.36 dB 2:55 06-Whipping
DR6 0.00 dB -7.61 dB 3:13 07-Leash
DR6 0.00 dB -7.32 dB 6:04 08-Porch
DR10 -0.10 dB -15.39 dB 1:00 09-Encore Break 2
DR6 -0.02 dB -7.84 dB 3:50 10-Swallow My Pride
DR6 0.00 dB -8.02 dB 3:52 11-Ain't Nothing To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 21
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 927 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

MP3:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:35:41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / Aladdin Theater, Las Vegas, 1993
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.62 dB -12.90 dB 5:03 01-Evenflow
DR10 -0.76 dB -12.62 dB 3:17 02-Once
DR11 -0.56 dB -12.67 dB 4:24 03-Deep
DR10 -0.20 dB -13.06 dB 6:27 04-Jeremy
DR10 -1.17 dB -12.69 dB 3:36 05-Dissident
DR11 -0.75 dB -14.35 dB 5:26 06-Daughter
DR10 -1.35 dB -12.89 dB 3:01 07-Go
DR10 -0.92 dB -12.91 dB 2:50 08-Animal
DR10 -0.66 dB -12.57 dB 3:39 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR11 -0.12 dB -13.21 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR10 -0.50 dB -13.63 dB 5:37 11-Black
DR11 -0.66 dB -12.89 dB 2:39 12-Blood
DR10 -0.80 dB -13.02 dB 5:16 13-Alive
DR10 -0.54 dB -12.66 dB 5:03 14-Rearview Mirror
DR10 0.00 dB -12.21 dB 2:40 15-Whippin
DR10 -1.01 dB -12.58 dB 3:10 16-Leash
DR10 -1.15 dB -12.89 dB 6:55 17-Porch
DR10 -0.70 dB -13.32 dB 3:55 18-Swallow My Pride
DR10 0.00 dB -13.11 dB 4:12 19-Ain't Nothin' To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 19
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bitrate: 256 kbps
Codec: MP3
================================================================================

WOW! well this definitely will not take the place of my old MP3s, and will probably not be my "go to" version. (Insert Sad face here)

Are these audible differences to human ears?

Just less dynamic. Louder, more compressed, not as good at higher volumes.

Bummer.

I can't say I give a shit about all those numbers. I just care about my listening experience. And I have enjoyed listening to all of the Vaults. Not disappointing as far as my enjoyment of them has gone. That said, i believe everything should always been done in the best quality possible, and PJ absolutely should have a serious talk about their quality standards (assuming the conclusion of the talk is that they need to have high standards in all that they put out there).

MedozK said:

Some people "listen" to music, others "critically listen" to music. If you enjoy the music, buy it, if not don't.

I do critically listen to music - I.e. I never listen to Ten and Vs. even though I love them because I only have the reissues still, and they sound fucking awful IMO. Lostening to them critically, I just don't feel that the Vaults sound bad (though Vault 3 does sound a bit better than Vault 4, both sound pretty good IMO). But yeah, I'm not listening critically enough to pour over lists of numbers so I can read what my ears aren't telling me.

MedozK said:

So your telling me you don't want to compare wave forms, to analyze how the top and bottom ends have been cut? .... just kidding.... if your ears like them, enjoy.

I think all I was really saying is that if you A/B the old MP3s and the new FLACs... you can tell a difference, and leave it up to your ears to make that decision, but I would bet 9 out of 10 times you will choose the release with the higher DR numbers.

That's true. Side by side comparisons (listening, not number counting) does make a difference with perception.

dudeman said:

It should also be said that listening equipment plays a large role in what you actually hear.

For example, listening through consumer grade electronics isn't likely to transmit the details of the music to the listener like audiophile grade electronics will.

There is a difference between your typical Sony gear from Best Buy and McIntosh from a audio equipment dealer.

Agree completely.

my2hands said:

darthvedder said:

Wow, I just dug up my old mp3 copy from Basecamp and it sounds so much more dynamic than the FLAC copy I just bought. That truly makes me sad. Once again, I hope the vinyl sounds better.

There's also some dialog cut after Jeremy. The shoe speech "I love me, I love me, I love me...apparently they do love themselves more than Mudhoney" has been cut for the vault release.

Here's the DR numbers:

First, the FLAC:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:37:50

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / 1993/11/30 Las Vegas, NV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7 0.00 dB -7.77 dB 5:05 01-Even Flow
DR7 0.00 dB -7.60 dB 3:19 02-Once
DR7 0.00 dB -7.53 dB 4:25 03-Deep
DR6 0.00 dB -7.49 dB 5:45 04-Jeremy
DR6 0.00 dB -7.67 dB 3:39 05-Dissident
DR7 0.00 dB -9.15 dB 5:21 06-Daughter
DR6 0.00 dB -7.86 dB 3:03 07-Go
DR7 0.00 dB -7.97 dB 2:59 08-Animal
DR7 0.00 dB -7.31 dB 3:30 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR7 0.00 dB -8.17 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR6 0.00 dB -8.61 dB 5:54 01-Black
DR6 0.00 dB -7.62 dB 2:30 02-Blood
DR6 -0.01 dB -7.62 dB 4:56 03-Alive
DR10 -6.67 dB -21.07 dB 0:24 04-Encore Break 1
DR6 0.00 dB -7.58 dB 5:06 05-Rearviewmirror
DR6 0.00 dB -7.36 dB 2:55 06-Whipping
DR6 0.00 dB -7.61 dB 3:13 07-Leash
DR6 0.00 dB -7.32 dB 6:04 08-Porch
DR10 -0.10 dB -15.39 dB 1:00 09-Encore Break 2
DR6 -0.02 dB -7.84 dB 3:50 10-Swallow My Pride
DR6 0.00 dB -8.02 dB 3:52 11-Ain't Nothing To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 21
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 927 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

MP3:
foobar2000 1.3.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-11-26 21:35:41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Pearl Jam / Aladdin Theater, Las Vegas, 1993
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.62 dB -12.90 dB 5:03 01-Evenflow
DR10 -0.76 dB -12.62 dB 3:17 02-Once
DR11 -0.56 dB -12.67 dB 4:24 03-Deep
DR10 -0.20 dB -13.06 dB 6:27 04-Jeremy
DR10 -1.17 dB -12.69 dB 3:36 05-Dissident
DR11 -0.75 dB -14.35 dB 5:26 06-Daughter
DR10 -1.35 dB -12.89 dB 3:01 07-Go
DR10 -0.92 dB -12.91 dB 2:50 08-Animal
DR10 -0.66 dB -12.57 dB 3:39 09-State Of Love And Trust
DR11 -0.12 dB -13.21 dB 3:56 10-Tremor Christ
DR10 -0.50 dB -13.63 dB 5:37 11-Black
DR11 -0.66 dB -12.89 dB 2:39 12-Blood
DR10 -0.80 dB -13.02 dB 5:16 13-Alive
DR10 -0.54 dB -12.66 dB 5:03 14-Rearview Mirror
DR10 0.00 dB -12.21 dB 2:40 15-Whippin
DR10 -1.01 dB -12.58 dB 3:10 16-Leash
DR10 -1.15 dB -12.89 dB 6:55 17-Porch
DR10 -0.70 dB -13.32 dB 3:55 18-Swallow My Pride
DR10 0.00 dB -13.11 dB 4:12 19-Ain't Nothin' To Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 19
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bitrate: 256 kbps
Codec: MP3
================================================================================

If I'm reading that right it isn't even close? Shouldn't those numbers be completely reversed essentially?

Between the mp3 and the Flac? One would hope they'd be about the same.

I can understand where the confusion lies because we're talking about compression. But it's not about compression to save space on a hard drive, as is done for mp3s when information is cut out. It's about compressing the waveform so that it sounds louder. So, FLACs can have just as poor dynamic range as mp3s do, and vice versa.

Those of you who received tracking information: when are your orders supposed to arrive?

dudeman said:

Those of you who received tracking information: when are your orders supposed to arrive?

Mine is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.