Should police pursue in a high speed chase?

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

law of averages says it will happen. thats why THIS particular jusrisdiction ( my county) says when its unreasonable risk to public or deputy to break off. Means shit when the deputy ignores this. wasn't even the primary persuer
The street this happened on is in a pretty densely populated section of town with a lot of side streets and alleys and is fairly narrow commpared to newer neighborhoods. kids on foot and bikes, moms and dads pushing strollers etc......

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/07/30/columbus-ohio-video-shows-franklin-co.-deputy-was-driving-over-100-mph-during-deadly-crash.html

I'm sorry. You're not going to like what I'm going to say:

F**king stupid people.

Number 1 stupid person: the idiot in the left lane that almost reluctantly pulls over to the right lane (let alone the curb as you are required to do).

Number 2 stupid person: the driver of the van. I say this reluctantly because I fear this is the victim. But... why are you pulling out trying to 'beat the police car in pursuit of something'?

Number 3 stupid person: the cop... 'if' the pursuit was something petty and not even remotely close to being necessary.

the suspect had bailed from his vehicle and it had become a foot pursuit. He was driving that fast for a FOOT PURSUIT!!!!!!!!! This deputy had ZERO reason to be traveling at such a rate of speed in this area given the nature of the call at that time he was joining in coming to aid of the arresting deputy.

.

So the cop is definitively Number 3 stupid person and arguably Number 1 stupid person.

The other drivers I referenced don't get a pass for ignoring basic and essential rules of the road: we know, through hindsight, that this high speed pursuit was unnecessary, but if it was a different scenario where lives were in danger... these drivers couldn't have discerned- they made themselves hazards for an emergency vehicle.

From this post I take it you could adequately figure rate of speed and get out of the way in time? Kinda doubt many could really.

Any number of legal and otherwise distractions behind the wheel gets in the way of full sight and sound attention not to mention human thought is probably the biggest.

NO reason for that rate of speed EVER in a 35 mph area.

You're making excuses for drivers.

There is a need for speed at times. If an armed gunman is making his way through a public place shooting people, we expect law enforcement to get there as fast as possible- at least the people under fire and their families do. We don't want them peacefully meandering towards the crime scene- stopping at every light and respecting posted speed limits set for 'everyday' life. I could offer a 1000 other scenarios as well.

The video showed a road that was straight and wide- easy to see, easy to navigate at high speeds, and not at all like those two photos earlier in the thread which you made it sound like.

The responsibility is on the driver to be aware of emergency service vehicles when their lights and sirens are blaring and they are travelling at high speeds. Refusing to pull over until the last second or pulling out in front of them is shitty driving. Period. In my city... all cars on both sides of the street pull over to the curb and stop until the emergency vehicle is gone. Most times, the cars wait for a few seconds because there's usually another rushing vehicle or two as well. But... most of us play with half a brain at least. Maybe in Ohio this isn't the case? Maybe the idea of leaving the roadway to the emergency vehicles is a concept that is simply beyond your guys' capacity for thought?

In my earlier post, I classified the officer as 'stupid'. Before I officially slap that label on him... could you be so kind as to let me know exactly what the rush was? Who were they pursuing? What was the fleeing person on foot running from (what crime did they commit) if you don't mind me asking?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

law of averages says it will happen. thats why THIS particular jusrisdiction ( my county) says when its unreasonable risk to public or deputy to break off. Means shit when the deputy ignores this. wasn't even the primary persuer
The street this happened on is in a pretty densely populated section of town with a lot of side streets and alleys and is fairly narrow commpared to newer neighborhoods. kids on foot and bikes, moms and dads pushing strollers etc......

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/07/30/columbus-ohio-video-shows-franklin-co.-deputy-was-driving-over-100-mph-during-deadly-crash.html

I'm sorry. You're not going to like what I'm going to say:

F**king stupid people.

Number 1 stupid person: the idiot in the left lane that almost reluctantly pulls over to the right lane (let alone the curb as you are required to do).

Number 2 stupid person: the driver of the van. I say this reluctantly because I fear this is the victim. But... why are you pulling out trying to 'beat the police car in pursuit of something'?

Number 3 stupid person: the cop... 'if' the pursuit was something petty and not even remotely close to being necessary.

the suspect had bailed from his vehicle and it had become a foot pursuit. He was driving that fast for a FOOT PURSUIT!!!!!!!!! This deputy had ZERO reason to be traveling at such a rate of speed in this area given the nature of the call at that time he was joining in coming to aid of the arresting deputy.

.

So the cop is definitively Number 3 stupid person and arguably Number 1 stupid person.

The other drivers I referenced don't get a pass for ignoring basic and essential rules of the road: we know, through hindsight, that this high speed pursuit was unnecessary, but if it was a different scenario where lives were in danger... these drivers couldn't have discerned- they made themselves hazards for an emergency vehicle.

From this post I take it you could adequately figure rate of speed and get out of the way in time? Kinda doubt many could really.

Any number of legal and otherwise distractions behind the wheel gets in the way of full sight and sound attention not to mention human thought is probably the biggest.

NO reason for that rate of speed EVER in a 35 mph area.

You're making excuses for drivers.

There is a need for speed at times. If an armed gunman is making his way through a public place shooting people, we expect law enforcement to get there as fast as possible- at least the people under fire and their families do. We don't want them peacefully meandering towards the crime scene- stopping at every light and respecting posted speed limits set for 'everyday' life. I could offer a 1000 other scenarios as well.

The video showed a road that was straight and wide- easy to see, easy to navigate at high speeds, and not at all like those two photos earlier in the thread which you made it sound like.

The responsibility is on the driver to be aware of emergency service vehicles when their lights and sirens are blaring and they are travelling at high speeds. Refusing to pull over until the last second or pulling out in front of them is shitty driving. Period. In my city... all cars on both sides of the street pull over to the curb and stop until the emergency vehicle is gone. Most times, the cars wait for a few seconds because there's usually another rushing vehicle or two as well. But... most of us play with half a brain at least. Maybe in Ohio this isn't the case? Maybe the idea of leaving the roadway to the emergency vehicles is a concept that is simply beyond your guys' capacity for thought?

In my earlier post, I classified the officer as 'stupid'. Before I officially slap that label on him... could you be so kind as to let me know exactly what the rush was? Who were they pursuing? What was the fleeing person on foot running from (what crime did they commit) if you don't mind me asking?

Read the second link I posted.

It usually seems too dangerous. I'm sure in a few extreme cases it's worth it, like of the criminal is a greater immediate threat to public safety than a high speed car chase is, but generally I think they should be avoided in populated areas. Police drones wouod be a GREAT replacement here. I din't know why they aren't already using them for stalking criminals. Such an effective way to chase them....I suppose they aren't because the laws are so fucking slow catching up to technology (and I don't want cops abusing power or ruining criminal cases through the unlawful use of drones... are there drones that go as fast as cars btw??), but I wish the laws would catch up. Meanwhile, police helicopters are also better than car chases, though those cause the criminal to try and evade in a car too, so still dangerous.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Responding to the aid and request of another officer.

This might be a scenario that requires excessive speed.

Did the dispatcher call for assistance... but temper it with a 'but just chill 'cause everything is cool'? Or was the call for help left to interpretation?

I dont know those details but unless there was imminent threat to officer or bystanders such as perp had a gun etc, 106 mph in a mixed use residential /with some businees storefronts at 35mph is completely unnecessary.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Responding to the aid and request of another officer.

This might be a scenario that requires excessive speed.

Did the dispatcher call for assistance... but temper it with a 'but just chill 'cause everything is cool'? Or was the call for help left to interpretation?

I dont know those details but unless there was imminent threat to officer or bystanders such as perp had a gun etc, 106 mph in a mixed use residential /with some businees storefronts at 35mph is completely unnecessary.

I don't know those details either so I'm going to assume the cop felt he needed to respond with a sense of urgency more than simply popping an erection and gunning it- seizing the moment for one sided legally sanctioned street racing (or whatever it was called earlier).

Do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved? I ask because this was implicit in one of your previous posts.

From my perspective, the van should have been waiting at the intersection for the cop to pass- not scooting through to save six seconds of driving time.

They the cops still have the obligation to drive in a safe manner even at speed. 3 times the posted limit isnt in a safe manner given the RESIDENTIAL area.

I drive for a living. It would be hard for me to realistically judge that kind of rate of speed on a freeway much less A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
Doubt anyone could even hear the siren at that speed until it was right up on you.

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Responding to the aid and request of another officer.

This might be a scenario that requires excessive speed.

Did the dispatcher call for assistance... but temper it with a 'but just chill 'cause everything is cool'? Or was the call for help left to interpretation?

I dont know those details but unless there was imminent threat to officer or bystanders such as perp had a gun etc, 106 mph in a mixed use residential /with some businees storefronts at 35mph is completely unnecessary.

I don't know those details either so I'm going to assume the cop felt he needed to respond with a sense of urgency more than simply popping an erection and gunning it- seizing the moment for one sided legally sanctioned street racing (or whatever it was called earlier).

Do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved? I ask because this was implicit in one of your previous posts.

From my perspective, the van should have been waiting at the intersection for the cop to pass- not scooting through to save six seconds of driving time.

They the cops still have the obligation to drive in a safe manner even at speed. 3 times the posted limit isnt in a safe manner given the RESIDENTIAL area.

I drive for a living. It would be hard for me to realistically judge that kind of rate of speed on a freeway much less A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
Doubt anyone could even hear the siren at that speed until it was right up on you.

Avoided my questions and repeated the same stuff you've been saying. I'd avoid answering them to knowing how you're likely going to respond to them.

The intersection where that van pulled out was at a long straight stretch. Seeing the police car coming was not an issue here. The driver of the van needed to wait to allow the service vehicle to pass. If you drive for a living... then you should know this is the rule of the road.

If you were speaking of a scenario where a mother was walking her child across a crosswalk and the car came barreling around the corner going too fast to stop... you'd have my support. You presented a scenario where some person pulled out when they shouldn't have. The cop may have been going too fast, but certain scenarios allow for such speeds. No scenarios provide for someone to pull out in front of, or obstruct, an emergency vehicle rushing to a scene.

And I see you're a fan of bold letters. Here's some for you: YOU HATE COPS. WE GET IT.

mickeyrat said:

No. I dont. But they are no better than the rest of us and as such shouldnt be given deferential treatment. The danger of their notwithstanding.

No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.

Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.

I live here. This shit aint cool.

FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.

If you don't... then it's hard to tell that with your stream of comments in the various police threads coupled with your reluctance here to acknowledge the fact that in many cases the driver of the vehicle which never yielded to the service vehicle has made a grievous error in judgement: at a minimum contributing to the crash.

You still never responded to my question to you: do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved?

A 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.

And AGAIN, another pursuit here last night. Police tried to pull over someone who was driving as if under the influence. Guy had his family in the car yet still gave chase. Asshole crashed and flipped the car.

In scenarios like this, is it wiser to leave a potentially-impaired driver alone (with or without family/passengers), leave it to luck or fate that he doesn't kill someone while merrily on his way, or do what they can to get his ass off the road?