Responding to the aid and request of another officer.
This might be a scenario that requires excessive speed.
Did the dispatcher call for assistance... but temper it with a 'but just chill 'cause everything is cool'? Or was the call for help left to interpretation?
I dont know those details but unless there was imminent threat to officer or bystanders such as perp had a gun etc, 106 mph in a mixed use residential /with some businees storefronts at 35mph is completely unnecessary.
I don't know those details either so I'm going to assume the cop felt he needed to respond with a sense of urgency more than simply popping an erection and gunning it- seizing the moment for one sided legally sanctioned street racing (or whatever it was called earlier).
Do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved? I ask because this was implicit in one of your previous posts.
From my perspective, the van should have been waiting at the intersection for the cop to pass- not scooting through to save six seconds of driving time.
They the cops still have the obligation to drive in a safe manner even at speed. 3 times the posted limit isnt in a safe manner given the RESIDENTIAL area.
I drive for a living. It would be hard for me to realistically judge that kind of rate of speed on a freeway much less A RESIDENTIAL AREA. Doubt anyone could even hear the siren at that speed until it was right up on you.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Responding to the aid and request of another officer.
This might be a scenario that requires excessive speed.
Did the dispatcher call for assistance... but temper it with a 'but just chill 'cause everything is cool'? Or was the call for help left to interpretation?
I dont know those details but unless there was imminent threat to officer or bystanders such as perp had a gun etc, 106 mph in a mixed use residential /with some businees storefronts at 35mph is completely unnecessary.
I don't know those details either so I'm going to assume the cop felt he needed to respond with a sense of urgency more than simply popping an erection and gunning it- seizing the moment for one sided legally sanctioned street racing (or whatever it was called earlier).
Do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved? I ask because this was implicit in one of your previous posts.
From my perspective, the van should have been waiting at the intersection for the cop to pass- not scooting through to save six seconds of driving time.
They the cops still have the obligation to drive in a safe manner even at speed. 3 times the posted limit isnt in a safe manner given the RESIDENTIAL area.
I drive for a living. It would be hard for me to realistically judge that kind of rate of speed on a freeway much less A RESIDENTIAL AREA. Doubt anyone could even hear the siren at that speed until it was right up on you.
Avoided my questions and repeated the same stuff you've been saying. I'd avoid answering them to knowing how you're likely going to respond to them.
The intersection where that van pulled out was at a long straight stretch. Seeing the police car coming was not an issue here. The driver of the van needed to wait to allow the service vehicle to pass. If you drive for a living... then you should know this is the rule of the road.
If you were speaking of a scenario where a mother was walking her child across a crosswalk and the car came barreling around the corner going too fast to stop... you'd have my support. You presented a scenario where some person pulled out when they shouldn't have. The cop may have been going too fast, but certain scenarios allow for such speeds. No scenarios provide for someone to pull out in front of, or obstruct, an emergency vehicle rushing to a scene.
And I see you're a fan of bold letters. Here's some for you: YOU HATE COPS. WE GET IT.
No. I dont. But they are no better than the rest of us and as such shouldnt be given deferential treatment. The danger of their notwithstanding.
No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.
Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.
I live here. This shit aint cool.
FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
No. I dont. But they are no better than the rest of us and as such shouldnt be given deferential treatment. The danger of their notwithstanding.
No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.
Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.
I live here. This shit aint cool.
FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.
If you don't... then it's hard to tell that with your stream of comments in the various police threads coupled with your reluctance here to acknowledge the fact that in many cases the driver of the vehicle which never yielded to the service vehicle has made a grievous error in judgement: at a minimum contributing to the crash.
You still never responded to my question to you: do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved?
No. I dont. But they are no better than the rest of us and as such shouldnt be given deferential treatment. The danger of their notwithstanding.
No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.
Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.
I live here. This shit aint cool.
FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.
If you don't... then it's hard to tell that with your stream of comments in the various police threads coupled with your reluctance here to acknowledge the fact that in many cases the driver of the vehicle which never yielded to the service vehicle has made a grievous error in judgement: at a minimum contributing to the crash.
You still never responded to my question to you: do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved?
A 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.
prone to it? no. Happens ? yes. As I stated earlier there are any number of distractions. Shit, checking your mirrors IS taking your eyes off the road. Of course there are drivers that make it more difficult for emergency responders. At the speed that deputy was driving how well was he able to rive in a defensive manner while at the same time arriving on scene SAFELY in the face of others on the road that may not be paying due attention?
I am ALL FOR holding those that need be accountable actually accountable. Cops included.
The burden is on responders. EMTs and Fire arent allowed to just run red lights , they need to slow enough to ensure safe passage through an intersection, more so than a cop on call that is life and death situation nearly every time. Suspected DUI chase changes to Foot chase doesnt warrant 106 MPH. EVEN IF the streets are clear and all other motorists are pulling over as required. At hose speeds , how much adrenalin is pumping ? How amped is that deputy when he arrives on scene? How likely is he going to act in a manner suited to the situation?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
No. I dont. But they are no better than the rest of us and as such shouldnt be given deferential treatment. The danger of their notwithstanding.
No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.
Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.
I live here. This shit aint cool.
FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.
If you don't... then it's hard to tell that with your stream of comments in the various police threads coupled with your reluctance here to acknowledge the fact that in many cases the driver of the vehicle which never yielded to the service vehicle has made a grievous error in judgement: at a minimum contributing to the crash.
You still never responded to my question to you: do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved?
A 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.
At hose speeds , how much adrenalin is pumping ? How amped is that deputy when he arrives on scene? How likely is he going to act in a manner suited to the situation?
About as much adrenalin as the next time a serial killer gets his fix or robber gets his. Left to get away they will always find their fix. You hear sirens you know what to do. If you don't then don't be on the road. Pedestrian or otherwise.
No. I dont. But they are no better than the rest of us and as such shouldnt be given deferential treatment. The danger of their notwithstanding.
No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.
Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.
I live here. This shit aint cool.
FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.
If you don't... then it's hard to tell that with your stream of comments in the various police threads coupled with your reluctance here to acknowledge the fact that in many cases the driver of the vehicle which never yielded to the service vehicle has made a grievous error in judgement: at a minimum contributing to the crash.
You still never responded to my question to you: do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved?
A 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.
At hose speeds , how much adrenalin is pumping ? How amped is that deputy when he arrives on scene? How likely is he going to act in a manner suited to the situation?
About as much adrenalin as the next time a serial killer gets his fix or robber gets his. Left to get away they will always find their fix. You hear sirens you know what to do. If you don't then don't be on the road. Pedestrian or otherwise.
Absolutely. In fact, were all conditioned for that. Except the deaf. And maybe some who are handicapped. Or people who step out in from of a motorcycle going 75 MPH in a 25 zone on a crowded small downtown street and the cycle is leading the cop far enough ahead such that the siren sounds like its happening down at the other end of the street and you step out and WHAM you're dead. And what if that was your spouse or work mate or best buddy or a kid?
It isn't worth it. Take their picture, apprehend them later, save lives.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
And AGAIN, another pursuit here last night. Police tried to pull over someone who was driving as if under the influence. Guy had his family in the car yet still gave chase. Asshole crashed and flipped the car.
In scenarios like this, is it wiser to leave a potentially-impaired driver alone (with or without family/passengers), leave it to luck or fate that he doesn't kill someone while merrily on his way, or do what they can to get his ass off the road?
I'm not saying give cops carte blanche to drive as fast as they want whenever they want.
I'm saying people had better be aware of emergency vehicles on the road- it is every driver's responsibility to have awareness while driving and the rule is pull over when service vehicles have their lights (visual) and siren (audible) on. Drivers are supposed to be aware of the fact that heightened speeds accompany lights and sirens. If a driver fails to recognize an emergency vehicle and pulls out in front of them or refuses to yield... that is on them.
There are obviously scenarios where police abuse the license we have given them to use speed. In these scenarios, I am for holding them accountable for any damage caused. Recklessly flying around a cobblestone street and plowing into a mother and child using a crosswalk would be one.
Thirty, I always have my window cracked at the least so I can hear the sirens (yes, a Pearl Jam reference ) . I've seen so many people completely unaware, just sitting there blocking the lane while the blaring and lights happen.
I don't care if it's a police car, fire engine, ambulance, whatever. Pay attention and get yer ass to the side!
I figure it's git to be about common sense... though that is probably too much to ask. Seems like a matter of real risk assessment done on the fly. How much risk is this person and the public and myself at if i don't chase this guy versus if i do, under the assumption that high speed police chases are very dangerous?
If the driver is known to be a mass serial killer or a terrorist with a trunk full of explosives ... yeah, chase the fucker. If the driver is some drunk yahoo, no, take down his license plate and wait for him at his house because a drunk in a high speed chase is a lot more dangerous than a drunk slowly weaving home. Is the driver suspected of having someone captive? Chase the fucker or you might never see the kidnapped person again. Is the person someone who just sold a dime bag on the street corner? Fuck off, starting a high speed car chase for that kind of thing should result in the cop having to be retrained (in a world.wjeremcops get good training of course. Not this world). I think most car chases start when a cop simply tried to pull someone over for whatever reason/excuse and the driver speeds away and the cops have absolutely no idea who is in the car or why they are running. That is crazy. Just get the plate number and let them go. Find them later and charge them for evading police.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I figure it's git to be about common sense... though that is probably too much to ask. Seems like a matter of real risk assessment done on the fly. How much risk is this person and the public and myself at if i don't chase this guy versus if i do, under the assumption that high speed police chases are very dangerous?
If the driver is known to be a mass serial killer or a terrorist with a trunk full of explosives ... yeah, chase the fucker. If the driver is some drunk yahoo, no, take down his license plate and wait for him at his house because a drunk in a high speed chase is a lot more dangerous than a drunk slowly weaving home. Is the driver suspected of having someone captive? Chase the fucker or you might never see the kidnapped person again. Is the person someone who just sold a dime bag on the street corner? Fuck off, starting a high speed car chase for that kind of thing should result in the cop having to be retrained (in a world.wjeremcops get good training of course. Not this world). I think most car chases start when a cop simply tried to pull someone over for whatever reason/excuse and the driver speeds away and the cops have absolutely no idea who is in the car or why they are running. That is crazy. Just get the plate number and let them go. Find them later and charge them for evading police.
But what if that person that tries to evade the police is doing so for good reason? In other words... what if they are a dangerous person and after letting them go because they took off... they hurt someone? If I'm the parent of a daughter who is raped by a serial rapist that was detained two days before the crime, but not arrested because they drove away rendering the law useless... I'd be furious.
I said it earlier: the 'go to' move cannot be as simple as racing away knowing the cops are not going to pursue you. If you're a criminal... what have you got to lose by driving away every time you're pulled over knowing a pursuit is not going to occur?
Once again... people are dissecting police behaviours when ultimately... this is about offender behaviour. If people would stop breaking the law... we wouldn't need police racing about.
No. I dont. But they are no better than the rest of us and as such shouldnt be given deferential treatment. The danger of their notwithstanding.
No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.
Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.
I live here. This shit aint cool.
FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.
If you don't... then it's hard to tell that with your stream of comments in the various police threads coupled with your reluctance here to acknowledge the fact that in many cases the driver of the vehicle which never yielded to the service vehicle has made a grievous error in judgement: at a minimum contributing to the crash.
You still never responded to my question to you: do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved?
A 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.
At hose speeds , how much adrenalin is pumping ? How amped is that deputy when he arrives on scene? How likely is he going to act in a manner suited to the situation?
About as much adrenalin as the next time a serial killer gets his fix or robber gets his. Left to get away they will always find their fix. You hear sirens you know what to do. If you don't then don't be on the road. Pedestrian or otherwise.
Absolutely. In fact, were all conditioned for that. Except the deaf. And maybe some who are handicapped. It isn't worth it. Take their picture, apprehend them later, save lives.
If anything these people are the ones with heightened senses. Oculary in particular. They are safer then the rest of mindless pedestrians.
I figure it's git to be about common sense... though that is probably too much to ask. Seems like a matter of real risk assessment done on the fly. How much risk is this person and the public and myself at if i don't chase this guy versus if i do, under the assumption that high speed police chases are very dangerous?
If the driver is known to be a mass serial killer or a terrorist with a trunk full of explosives ... yeah, chase the fucker. If the driver is some drunk yahoo, no, take down his license plate and wait for him at his house because a drunk in a high speed chase is a lot more dangerous than a drunk slowly weaving home. Is the driver suspected of having someone captive? Chase the fucker or you might never see the kidnapped person again. Is the person someone who just sold a dime bag on the street corner? Fuck off, starting a high speed car chase for that kind of thing should result in the cop having to be retrained (in a world.wjeremcops get good training of course. Not this world). I think most car chases start when a cop simply tried to pull someone over for whatever reason/excuse and the driver speeds away and the cops have absolutely no idea who is in the car or why they are running. That is crazy. Just get the plate number and let them go. Find them later and charge them for evading police.
But what if that person that tries to evade the police is doing so for good reason? In other words... what if they are a dangerous person and after letting them go because they took off... they hurt someone? If I'm the parent of a daughter who is raped by a serial rapist that was detained two days before the crime, but not arrested because they drove away rendering the law useless... I'd be furious.
I said it earlier: the 'go to' move cannot be as simple as racing away knowing the cops are not going to pursue you. If you're a criminal... what have you got to lose by driving away every time you're pulled over knowing a pursuit is not going to occur?
Once again... people are dissecting police behaviours when ultimately... this is about offender behaviour. If people would stop breaking the law... we wouldn't need police racing about.
That is simply not possible for them to know so can't be considered IMO. I think the police should only be doing something that endangers the public if they have actual knowledge that it's going to worth it. But hey, I am also in favour of "safe" pursuit... chase until it gets dangerous... which would often be pretty quickly. But there is a LOT of car chase footage in this world, and IMO, 90% of the ones I've seen were not worth the risk or damage. If this method isn't working time for cops to think of some new methods. How about some kind of system to make it easier to throw out spikes or just have someone up ahead to pick up the trail or something?? And I have mentioned many times recently that this would be a great way to put drones to good use. Seems like the simplest and most effective option to me.
I don't think talking about how the problem is the criminals not the cops is useful at all. The criminals aren't going anywhere, realistically (though legalizing drugs would help a LOT). We have to look at what we do have control over in these situations, and that is how the police conduct themselves in order to come up with the best outcome overall.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
And B, I get what you're saying up there, but as a pedestrian, don't you also look before stepping into the street?
Generally I just run as fast as I can and hope for the best.
Well, OK, that's true but again, I'm talking about a situation where a lot of people are moving around and where you don't expect high speeds. What if a driver who is parallel parked looks, sees no one coming, starts to pull out and suddenly another vehicle comes charging along at three or four times the normal speed? There are just too many possible scenarios where someone could have gotten hurt or killed. High speed chase on a freeway? Probably OK but still dangerous. High speed chase in a neighborhood? Quite dangerous. High speed chase on a relatively narrow busy downtown street? Highly dangerous.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
Interesting thought, although I have no idea how they would possibly ID a particular vehicle with precision and then affect it. Maybe the license plate is enough to positively identify it, but maybe not; thieves can certainly switch plates. Imagine your car suddenly stopping when you're driving down the highway. I don't have On-Star; does it allow verbal communication with the driver?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I should also say - the policy of our police here is not to engage in high speed chases unless the risk of the perpetrator is high, and yet they generally seem to catch the person regardless, generally by positioning other units up ahead to box them in.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
If criminals knew that police will not pursue them if they drive fast then the criminals would speed away all the time.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I should also say - the policy of our police here is not to engage in high speed chases unless the risk of the perpetrator is high, and yet they generally seem to catch the person regardless, generally by positioning other units up ahead to box them in.
which makes more sense than endangering innocent lives, doesn't it?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Should they? At times yes. Wouldn't want that serial killer to get away. Other times no. Either way whatever happens from a high speed chase would be criticized from the general 10c public. So maybe the cops should do nothing instead. That'll learn em.
One of the most basic on point opinions I have ever read on here…Bravo
I can't wait to read more on what people have to say about this topic..
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
Interesting thought, although I have no idea how they would possibly ID a particular vehicle with precision and then affect it. Maybe the license plate is enough to positively identify it, but maybe not; thieves can certainly switch plates. Imagine your car suddenly stopping when you're driving down the highway. I don't have On-Star; does it allow verbal communication with the driver?
Should they? At times yes. Wouldn't want that serial killer to get away. Other times no. Either way whatever happens from a high speed chase would be criticized from the general 10c public. So maybe the cops should do nothing instead. That'll learn em.
One of the most basic on point opinions I have ever read on here…Bravo
I can't wait to read more on what people have to say about this topic..
What about what has been said so far (other than the one written in verse form you mentioned above), Dan?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
NOOOOOOO
Thought of spending big bucks on a machine that gives others access to my privacy pisses me off.
One of my cars collects data that can be retrieved by the courts to be used against me in court. Need to find way to clear data with push if a button. Won't buy a new gm or other car with tracking devices.
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
NOOOOOOO
Thought of spending big bucks on a machine that gives others access to my privacy pisses me off.
One of my cars collects data that can be retrieved by the courts to be used against me in court. Need to find way to clear data with push if a button. Won't buy a new gm or other car with tracking devices.
Love driving my old analog iron.
Your being a snob.Lock yourself out once and On star becomes your best friend.Also it's a sat phone link. During the Hurricanes when phones went down(cell and land line) I was able to make and receive calls from my vehicle.
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
NOOOOOOO
Thought of spending big bucks on a machine that gives others access to my privacy pisses me off.
One of my cars collects data that can be retrieved by the courts to be used against me in court. Need to find way to clear data with push if a button. Won't buy a new gm or other car with tracking devices.
Love driving my old analog iron.
Your being a snob.Lock yourself out once and On star becomes your best friend.Also it's a sat phone link. During the Hurricanes when phones went down(cell and land line) I was able to make and receive calls from my vehicle.
Hey understand value proposition of on star, (family and did stint managing fleet of cars which used gm and not worth it Sure you've heard of jeeps being hacked recently. Never give someone ability to shut down my car. This is my freedom. Ability to get away.
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
NOOOOOOO
Thought of spending big bucks on a machine that gives others access to my privacy pisses me off.
One of my cars collects data that can be retrieved by the courts to be used against me in court. Need to find way to clear data with push if a button. Won't buy a new gm or other car with tracking devices.
Love driving my old analog iron.
Your being a snob.Lock yourself out once and On star becomes your best friend.Also it's a sat phone link. During the Hurricanes when phones went down(cell and land line) I was able to make and receive calls from my vehicle.
Hey understand value proposition of on star, (family and did stint managing fleet of cars which used gm and not worth it Sure you've heard of jeeps being hacked recently. Never give someone ability to shut down my car. This is my freedom. Ability to get away.
I agree Callen. Weighing the pros and cons of something like On Star I tend to be wary of yet another way to hand over control to someone or some institution.
I still think the best way around this is have to cop photo the vehicles license and call for help apprehending over endangering others by high speed chase- at least in neighborhoods or downtown areas where others are more apt to get hurt.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Unless it's an extremely violent perp,Or a major threat to the gen pub.Police should hang back.Not worth the collateral damage.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
NOOOOOOO
Thought of spending big bucks on a machine that gives others access to my privacy pisses me off.
One of my cars collects data that can be retrieved by the courts to be used against me in court. Need to find way to clear data with push if a button. Won't buy a new gm or other car with tracking devices.
Love driving my old analog iron.
Yeah, I don't approve of anything like that. I wouldn't want cops to have access to the function of our cars. Most of us are law abiding citizens, so we shouldn't all be subjected to that level of control by law enforcement.
Again, drones that can be released specifically to follow suspects. The suspects will never even know it's following them. Seems like the ideal solution to me.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
I drive for a living. It would be hard for me to realistically judge that kind of rate of speed on a freeway much less A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
Doubt anyone could even hear the siren at that speed until it was right up on you.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The intersection where that van pulled out was at a long straight stretch. Seeing the police car coming was not an issue here. The driver of the van needed to wait to allow the service vehicle to pass. If you drive for a living... then you should know this is the rule of the road.
If you were speaking of a scenario where a mother was walking her child across a crosswalk and the car came barreling around the corner going too fast to stop... you'd have my support. You presented a scenario where some person pulled out when they shouldn't have. The cop may have been going too fast, but certain scenarios allow for such speeds. No scenarios provide for someone to pull out in front of, or obstruct, an emergency vehicle rushing to a scene.
And I see you're a fan of bold letters. Here's some for you: YOU HATE COPS. WE GET IT.
No scenario warrants 106 mph on surface streets. Period. The risk is too great.
Poor judgement isnt the word given long standing department policy on chases. Which for this deputy he wasnt even an active part of the initial chase.
I live here. This shit aint cool.
FWIW in my interactions with LE I have always been respectful and received the same in return. Its because I understand how stressful the job can be and appreciate those who do it with integrity and public service in mind.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
You still never responded to my question to you: do you still feel that drivers are inherently prone to gross errors in judgement and therefore share little responsibility in these motor vehicle accidents where an emergency vehicle is involved?
A 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.
I am ALL FOR holding those that need be accountable actually accountable. Cops included.
The burden is on responders. EMTs and Fire arent allowed to just run red lights , they need to slow enough to ensure safe passage through an intersection, more so than a cop on call that is life and death situation nearly every time. Suspected DUI chase changes to Foot chase doesnt warrant 106 MPH. EVEN IF the streets are clear and all other motorists are pulling over as required. At hose speeds , how much adrenalin is pumping ? How amped is that deputy when he arrives on scene? How likely is he going to act in a manner suited to the situation?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Left to get away they will always find their fix.
You hear sirens you know what to do.
If you don't then don't be on the road.
Pedestrian or otherwise.
It isn't worth it. Take their picture, apprehend them later, save lives.
In scenarios like this, is it wiser to leave a potentially-impaired driver alone (with or without family/passengers), leave it to luck or fate that he doesn't kill someone while merrily on his way, or do what they can to get his ass off the road?
I'm saying people had better be aware of emergency vehicles on the road- it is every driver's responsibility to have awareness while driving and the rule is pull over when service vehicles have their lights (visual) and siren (audible) on. Drivers are supposed to be aware of the fact that heightened speeds accompany lights and sirens. If a driver fails to recognize an emergency vehicle and pulls out in front of them or refuses to yield... that is on them.
There are obviously scenarios where police abuse the license we have given them to use speed. In these scenarios, I am for holding them accountable for any damage caused. Recklessly flying around a cobblestone street and plowing into a mother and child using a crosswalk would be one.
I don't care if it's a police car, fire engine, ambulance, whatever. Pay attention and get yer ass to the side!
If the driver is known to be a mass serial killer or a terrorist with a trunk full of explosives ... yeah, chase the fucker. If the driver is some drunk yahoo, no, take down his license plate and wait for him at his house because a drunk in a high speed chase is a lot more dangerous than a drunk slowly weaving home. Is the driver suspected of having someone captive? Chase the fucker or you might never see the kidnapped person again. Is the person someone who just sold a dime bag on the street corner? Fuck off, starting a high speed car chase for that kind of thing should result in the cop having to be retrained (in a world.wjeremcops get good training of course. Not this world).
I think most car chases start when a cop simply tried to pull someone over for whatever reason/excuse and the driver speeds away and the cops have absolutely no idea who is in the car or why they are running. That is crazy. Just get the plate number and let them go. Find them later and charge them for evading police.
I said it earlier: the 'go to' move cannot be as simple as racing away knowing the cops are not going to pursue you. If you're a criminal... what have you got to lose by driving away every time you're pulled over knowing a pursuit is not going to occur?
Once again... people are dissecting police behaviours when ultimately... this is about offender behaviour. If people would stop breaking the law... we wouldn't need police racing about.
Oculary in particular.
They are safer then the rest of mindless pedestrians.
I don't think talking about how the problem is the criminals not the cops is useful at all. The criminals aren't going anywhere, realistically (though legalizing drugs would help a LOT). We have to look at what we do have control over in these situations, and that is how the police conduct themselves in order to come up with the best outcome overall.
Well, OK, that's true but again, I'm talking about a situation where a lot of people are moving around and where you don't expect high speeds. What if a driver who is parallel parked looks, sees no one coming, starts to pull out and suddenly another vehicle comes charging along at three or four times the normal speed? There are just too many possible scenarios where someone could have gotten hurt or killed. High speed chase on a freeway? Probably OK but still dangerous. High speed chase in a neighborhood? Quite dangerous. High speed chase on a relatively narrow busy downtown street? Highly dangerous.
Another thought.With services like On-Star and others that can alter the ignition of a vehicle via Sat communication,What if law enforcement had the capability to tap into that existing resource and technology to ignition kill vehicles that are fleeing?This already exists,just a matter of using it.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I can't wait to read more on what people have to say about this topic..
Thought of spending big bucks on a machine that gives others access to my privacy pisses me off.
One of my cars collects data that can be retrieved by the courts to be used against me in court. Need to find way to clear data with push if a button. Won't buy a new gm or other car with tracking devices.
Love driving my old analog iron.
During the Hurricanes when phones went down(cell and land line) I was able to make and receive calls from my vehicle.
I still think the best way around this is have to cop photo the vehicles license and call for help apprehending over endangering others by high speed chase- at least in neighborhoods or downtown areas where others are more apt to get hurt.
Again, drones that can be released specifically to follow suspects. The suspects will never even know it's following them. Seems like the ideal solution to me.