What the hell happen in Virginia??

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less than stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

dudeman said:

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.

Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

I looked further into it. The US is by far the worst for gun deaths in the economic leaders of the world, and it 12th in the world overall, only beaten out in places where gang crime is raging out of control and/or where there is war and ongoing extreme conflict. So Mexico and Colombia, Brazil and Panama beat them because of the drug cartels (in all cases most deaths are within the criminal gangs). Panama specifically has basically no gun regulation btw, and same with several of the others listed btwn and apparently the citizens of Panama are begging for it. Where there are regulations the deaths are almost completely restricted to criminal activity). Swasiland beat the US, as does South Africa, the Phillipines, and some other third world countries that I can't recall.
But the US still beats all of those strife - ridden developing nations that should never share a list with a country like the USA in terms of violence and crime but do anyway (and any American should be horrified by just that): the US beats the pants off of all other countries in the world when it comes to school shootings.

I would say that one thing that this all tells us is that population has absolutely nothing to do with gun deaths. It is ALL about culture and about a lot of people being out of control within a nation. That the USA is one of those nations, considering it's relative privilege and wealth and position in the world and relative political and economic stability and high standard of living, is absolutely mind boggling, and totally indefensible.

The US is an economic leader but also has piss poor social programs and the biggest gap between poor and rich.

We let our insane/mental people roam the streets(they aren't the ones doing the shootings I know that)

We have the worst vacation practices compared to other "developed" countries, maternity laws, etc. etc.

I believe all these factors have a significant impact on a culture.

The USA still has a very high quality of life compared to most countries, and the huge gap in wealth isn't because everyone is poor. It's because the rich are so dammed rich. I know the middle class is shrinking, but Americans still live in much greater comfort and luxury than most. I also believe that you are fooling yourself about the social support etc etc if you're comparing to the rest of the world. Sure, some first world nations beat the US there. But there are hundreds of countries thst are way worse, and only 11 of them have more gun deaths than the US.
I really do think you're just trying to make excuses here. The obvious distinction in the US is a very unique obsession with guns. Not all the other stuff you're bringing up. And i son's think the things you mention can be used to explain that obsession either. I think what explains the obsession is YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAW! U-S-A!! The 2nd Amendment, Whoohoo! From my cold dead hands! .... if you get what I mean. Gun culture.

That list up above that someone posted. Look at all those countries and tell me which one has worse social practices than the US…

I do agree that the US has a love for guns. No doubt about it. Never disagreed with that.

I'm also looking at it from a completely different view that everyone wants to just dismiss.

There is definitely something wrong with a society as a whole when you feel the urge to go on a killing spree.

I am talking about the 11 countries that are worse than the US. The USA has no business being amongst those numbers.

And back to my first question... What is their population?

This dance will go on forever...

What difference does it make, when it's clear that large populations aren't the cause?? If they were then China and India would be in the list.

Btw, yes there are social probs in the US, but those couldn't be the cause of the gun problem either IMO. There are a ton of countries with similar and much much worse social probs than Americans have, and they don't have a gun problem either. I'm not saying they'd don't contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the reason behind the problem itself IMHO.

IYHO, what is the reason behind the problem itself?

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

I looked further into it. The US is by far the worst for gun deaths in the economic leaders of the world, and it 12th in the world overall, only beaten out in places where gang crime is raging out of control and/or where there is war and ongoing extreme conflict. So Mexico and Colombia, Brazil and Panama beat them because of the drug cartels (in all cases most deaths are within the criminal gangs). Panama specifically has basically no gun regulation btw, and same with several of the others listed btwn and apparently the citizens of Panama are begging for it. Where there are regulations the deaths are almost completely restricted to criminal activity). Swasiland beat the US, as does South Africa, the Phillipines, and some other third world countries that I can't recall.
But the US still beats all of those strife - ridden developing nations that should never share a list with a country like the USA in terms of violence and crime but do anyway (and any American should be horrified by just that): the US beats the pants off of all other countries in the world when it comes to school shootings.

I would say that one thing that this all tells us is that population has absolutely nothing to do with gun deaths. It is ALL about culture and about a lot of people being out of control within a nation. That the USA is one of those nations, considering it's relative privilege and wealth and position in the world and relative political and economic stability and high standard of living, is absolutely mind boggling, and totally indefensible.

The US is an economic leader but also has piss poor social programs and the biggest gap between poor and rich.

We let our insane/mental people roam the streets(they aren't the ones doing the shootings I know that)

We have the worst vacation practices compared to other "developed" countries, maternity laws, etc. etc.

I believe all these factors have a significant impact on a culture.

The USA still has a very high quality of life compared to most countries, and the huge gap in wealth isn't because everyone is poor. It's because the rich are so dammed rich. I know the middle class is shrinking, but Americans still live in much greater comfort and luxury than most. I also believe that you are fooling yourself about the social support etc etc if you're comparing to the rest of the world. Sure, some first world nations beat the US there. But there are hundreds of countries thst are way worse, and only 11 of them have more gun deaths than the US.
I really do think you're just trying to make excuses here. The obvious distinction in the US is a very unique obsession with guns. Not all the other stuff you're bringing up. And i son's think the things you mention can be used to explain that obsession either. I think what explains the obsession is YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAW! U-S-A!! The 2nd Amendment, Whoohoo! From my cold dead hands! .... if you get what I mean. Gun culture.

That list up above that someone posted. Look at all those countries and tell me which one has worse social practices than the US…

I do agree that the US has a love for guns. No doubt about it. Never disagreed with that.

I'm also looking at it from a completely different view that everyone wants to just dismiss.

There is definitely something wrong with a society as a whole when you feel the urge to go on a killing spree.

I am talking about the 11 countries that are worse than the US. The USA has no business being amongst those numbers.

And back to my first question... What is their population?

This dance will go on forever...

What difference does it make, when it's clear that large populations aren't the cause?? If they were then China and India would be in the list.

Btw, yes there are social probs in the US, but those couldn't be the cause of the gun problem either IMO. There are a ton of countries with similar and much much worse social probs than Americans have, and they don't have a gun problem either. I'm not saying they'd don't contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the reason behind the problem itself IMHO.

IYHO, what is the reason behind the problem itself?

The unique American obsession with guns combined with their unique brand of constant paranoia.

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.

Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?

No, only tighter restrictions on future sales.
An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.

For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.

The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.

Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?

No, only tighter restrictions on future sales.
An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.

For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.

The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.

Your first two sentences seem to contradict each other.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.

Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?

No, only tighter restrictions on future sales.
An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.

For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.

The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.

Your first two sentences seem to contradict each other.

You don't see the difference between having guns confiscated and our government becoming an oppressive body that enslaves its people? One may potentially pave the way for the other but they're not the same thing.

I'm not one that feels like people need guns to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, I think some people feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from other citizens. I am one of the latter and feel like it should be left to a law-abiding, legal citizens to make that decision for themselves.

dudeman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.

Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?

No, only tighter restrictions on future sales.
An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.

For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.

The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.

Talk about paranoia. God forbid the government end private guns sales. Please explain how that is one step closer to confiscation. And if guns are forced to be registered, that must mean the government would then know where all of your guns are and that in turn would make it easier for them to take?

I don't think private sales should be made illegal, I just think that they should be subject to the same NICS background checks that are required for sales from FFL's.

A national gun registry would accomplish exactly what you detailed above. What other purpose would it possibly serve?

It would serve the same purpose as a vehicle registry. It would link a dangerous tool to it's lawful owner. The fees collected would be used to address the issues present in a society with dangerous tools.


It was really difficult not to be sarcastic and dickish, as this is just beyond obvious.
I did my best.

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................

Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.

Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.

Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?

No, only tighter restrictions on future sales.
An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.

For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.

The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.

I would think that the "protection" you refer to would be your local police. That is a city gov't...not federal...or do you not support any type of gov't whatsoever?

I don't understand how gun registration would be different than vehicle registration.