Trans-Gender Kids
Comments
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Is this really about what a child wants to wear or so-called gender-specific toys to play with?
Katharine Hepburn was an icon for women wearing pants; has nothing to do with identifying as a man.
These things are - or can be - inconsequential. I don't doubt some have sensed themselves at a young age, but is it so far-fetched for the child's parents to not rush things along? Patience, talking about and through it, leaving things be as your child ages and re-considers, or even affirms?
People, especially children, need time to cook a bit before being tossed out of the pan too soon and declared a specific dish.
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There is a big difference between telling a kid know regarding important things like safety and honesty and another thing to say no to interests or inclinations. When I was a kid, my parents said no A LOT! Even to the point where I resented it at times, but they were looking our for my welfare. But, when I was very young (two or three or four) I told my parents I wanted a doll and they gave me one. It was a girl doll and that was my favorite toy for years. I don't see that as being a bad thing at all."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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Interesting timing. I just read this article yesterday. It's long but I learned some things from it. It's about a clinic that works with transgender kids and teens.
star-telegram.com/living/health-fitness/article23863225.html
To give a few points from it that may apply to this thread:*Children and teens who identify as the opposite gender go through extensive counseling before being admitted to the program and throughout the process.
My first thought on the idea of trans kids and teens is Woah, they are too young to make these kinds of choices. After reading the article, I don't know, but at least I don't feel that they are being coerced into being trans.
*Some children change their minds about being trans. Teens rarely do.
*Trans surgery can only be performed on adults. It's illegal for minors.
*Medications that help kids transition can be stopped without permanently affecting them.
*It's hoped that if kids are helped to transition while they are young, with counseling and acceptance, they will be well-adjusted adults. Until now, many trans adults have problems because they have had to struggle with this issue throughout their lives."The stars are all connected to the brain."0 -
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
When people want to be critical of parents for pushing alternate gender roles on children it comes off as though the only problem they have is with the roles themselves.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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What if it's a pleated plaid skirt?JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
No, the dress would be a distraction because even at age five children would realize that it was out of place. Much the same way they would if the boy showed up in a Halloween costume. Teacher's have a hard enough job without that kind of distraction. It's not about parents dictating what is acceptable or even about transgender children. (My apologies to the OP.) It is about a five year boy telling his parents he wants to wear something unacceptable to school. In that regard it is no different than pajamas or shorts in January. It is up to the parents to say no.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.
Maybe someday boys wearing dresses will be a societal norm. That day is not today.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Wow.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.Post edited by FoxyRedLa onOh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
So at age 5 children are capable of understanding gender roles but not where they fit in them?JimmyV said:
No, the dress would be a distraction because even at age five children would realize that it was out of place. Much the same way they would if the boy showed up in a Halloween costume. Teacher's have a hard enough job without that kind of distraction. It's not about parents dictating what is acceptable or even about transgender children. (My apologies to the OP.) It is about a five year boy telling his parents he wants to wear something unacceptable to school. In that regard it is no different than pajamas or shorts in January. It is up to the parents to say no.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.
Maybe someday boys wearing dresses will be a societal norm. That day is not today.
Are you suggesting societal norms arise spontaneously?
It seems to me that they come from parents' interpretions of the things their children see and ask about.Post edited by rgambs onMonkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Sweet contribution.FoxyRedLa said:
Wow.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
I wasn't trying to contribute to the discussion. My apologies.rgambs said:
Sweet contribution.FoxyRedLa said:
Wow.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
I'm suggesting it is up to the parents to tell a five year old boy he cannot wear a dress to school. When that child is older and capable of making his own decisions, and if that child still wants to wear a dress to school, then good for that child. If doing so, in time, changes social norms, then good for society. But a five year old boy is not old enough to make such a decision, and shouldn't be used by his parents or anyone else in this way to make a statement.rgambs said:
So at age 5 children are capable of understanding gender roles but not where they fit in them?JimmyV said:
No, the dress would be a distraction because even at age five children would realize that it was out of place. Much the same way they would if the boy showed up in a Halloween costume. Teacher's have a hard enough job without that kind of distraction. It's not about parents dictating what is acceptable or even about transgender children. (My apologies to the OP.) It is about a five year boy telling his parents he wants to wear something unacceptable to school. In that regard it is no different than pajamas or shorts in January. It is up to the parents to say no.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.
Maybe someday boys wearing dresses will be a societal norm. That day is not today.
Are you suggesting societal norms arise spontaneously?
It seems to me that they come from parents' interpretions of the things their children see and ask about.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
It's not easy to parent a situation where your 5 year old son wants to wear dresses to school.
Liberal types might insist it should mean nothing and they are correct; however, realists are grounded in the fact that in most cases, a small boy wearing a dress to school becomes socially ostracized- they are correct as well.
I wouldn't entertain the idea of my son wearing a dress to school for a moment: not because I think dresses are for girls... more because I would hate for my son to deal with the heap of abuse that will inevitably come his way before he has the chance to develop socially.
Whatever choices parents wish to make is fine with me, however don't think for a second everybody out there is open minded like many here on the MT. In fact, most are ignorant and their ignorance is capable of irreparable harm to a child."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Good point about AMT. I think we should take into consideration that not all places in the real world are the same. In a small conservative town in the middle of the Bible belt, you would have more difficulty making the decision to let the kid wear the dress. The example I gave happened in a place where I'm guessing it was no big deal. And where such things are more socially acceptable, that's the place where change can start. In fact, many social changes do start in areas that are more progressive and they spread from there.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:It's not easy to parent a situation where your 5 year old son wants to wear dresses to school.
Liberal types might insist it should mean nothing and they are correct; however, realists are grounded in the fact that in most cases, a small boy wearing a dress to school becomes socially ostracized- they are correct as well.
I wouldn't entertain the idea of my son wearing a dress to school for a moment: not because I think dresses are for girls... more because I would hate for my son to deal with the heap of abuse that will inevitably come his way before he has the chance to develop socially.
Whatever choices parents wish to make is fine with me, however don't think for a second everybody out there is open minded like many here on the MT. In fact, most are ignorant and their ignorance is capable of irreparable harm to a child.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
By refusing to allow the child to wear a dress it is YOU who is the parent that is using the child to make a statement!JimmyV said:
I'm suggesting it is up to the parents to tell a five year old boy he cannot wear a dress to school. When that child is older and capable of making his own decisions, and if that child still wants to wear a dress to school, then good for that child. If doing so, in time, changes social norms, then good for society. But a five year old boy is not old enough to make such a decision, and shouldn't be used by his parents or anyone else in this way to make a statement.rgambs said:
So at age 5 children are capable of understanding gender roles but not where they fit in them?JimmyV said:
No, the dress would be a distraction because even at age five children would realize that it was out of place. Much the same way they would if the boy showed up in a Halloween costume. Teacher's have a hard enough job without that kind of distraction. It's not about parents dictating what is acceptable or even about transgender children. (My apologies to the OP.) It is about a five year boy telling his parents he wants to wear something unacceptable to school. In that regard it is no different than pajamas or shorts in January. It is up to the parents to say no.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.
Maybe someday boys wearing dresses will be a societal norm. That day is not today.
Are you suggesting societal norms arise spontaneously?
It seems to me that they come from parents' interpretions of the things their children see and ask about.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
This is exactly my point, the judgement of deviation from normalcy comes from the parent, not the children.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:It's not easy to parent a situation where your 5 year old son wants to wear dresses to school.
Liberal types might insist it should mean nothing and they are correct; however, realists are grounded in the fact that in most cases, a small boy wearing a dress to school becomes socially ostracized- they are correct as well.
I wouldn't entertain the idea of my son wearing a dress to school for a moment: not because I think dresses are for girls... more because I would hate for my son to deal with the heap of abuse that will inevitably come his way before he has the chance to develop socially.
Whatever choices parents wish to make is fine with me, however don't think for a second everybody out there is open minded like many here on the MT. In fact, most are ignorant and their ignorance is capable of irreparable harm to a child.
If there weren't so many parents with such old-fashioned modes of thinking, children wouldn't think twice about it.
It reminds me of the old days when women were kept in the kitchen, it may not be nearly so extreme, but it is rooted in the same place.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
If you let your five year old boy wear a dress to school to prove a point then you are indeed using that boy to make a statement.rgambs said:
By refusing to allow the child to wear a dress it is YOU who is the parent that is using the child to make a statement!JimmyV said:
I'm suggesting it is up to the parents to tell a five year old boy he cannot wear a dress to school. When that child is older and capable of making his own decisions, and if that child still wants to wear a dress to school, then good for that child. If doing so, in time, changes social norms, then good for society. But a five year old boy is not old enough to make such a decision, and shouldn't be used by his parents or anyone else in this way to make a statement.rgambs said:
So at age 5 children are capable of understanding gender roles but not where they fit in them?JimmyV said:
No, the dress would be a distraction because even at age five children would realize that it was out of place. Much the same way they would if the boy showed up in a Halloween costume. Teacher's have a hard enough job without that kind of distraction. It's not about parents dictating what is acceptable or even about transgender children. (My apologies to the OP.) It is about a five year boy telling his parents he wants to wear something unacceptable to school. In that regard it is no different than pajamas or shorts in January. It is up to the parents to say no.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.
Maybe someday boys wearing dresses will be a societal norm. That day is not today.
Are you suggesting societal norms arise spontaneously?
It seems to me that they come from parents' interpretions of the things their children see and ask about.
If you let him wear the dress simply because he wants to and you don't want to say no, then you are likely not saying no in other instances when you should.
Neither of these scenarios is one to be applauded.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Nice points Thirty and Brian.brianlux said:
Good point about AMT. I think we should take into consideration that not all places in the real world are the same. In a small conservative town in the middle of the Bible belt, you would have more difficulty making the decision to let the kid wear the dress. The example I gave happened in a place where I'm guessing it was no big deal. And where such things are more socially acceptable, that's the place where change can start. In fact, many social changes do start in areas that are more progressive and they spread from there.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:It's not easy to parent a situation where your 5 year old son wants to wear dresses to school.
Liberal types might insist it should mean nothing and they are correct; however, realists are grounded in the fact that in most cases, a small boy wearing a dress to school becomes socially ostracized- they are correct as well.
I wouldn't entertain the idea of my son wearing a dress to school for a moment: not because I think dresses are for girls... more because I would hate for my son to deal with the heap of abuse that will inevitably come his way before he has the chance to develop socially.
Whatever choices parents wish to make is fine with me, however don't think for a second everybody out there is open minded like many here on the MT. In fact, most are ignorant and their ignorance is capable of irreparable harm to a child.
Change has to start somewhere, and I think kids are more willing to accept then some might admit. Sometimes I think we don't give them enough credit.
Also think of how far we have come with these issues in such a short period of time, it's quite exceptional when you think about it.
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If you've ever been a kindergarten/preschool teacher (as my mom was for decades), you know that kids of that age come to school in all manner of odd clothing - tutus with rubber boots, batman capes, you name it. The other kids might be briefly interested, particularly if they like the look, but otherwise they pretty much ignore it and go about their business. They're at an age where most things are still new and different. At 5, a boy in a dress would mostly be causing a reaction amongst the other parents, not in the classroom.
Many parents would take the view that their child could choose to wear from within the range of what is generally accepted garb in the classroom and then decide for themselves if they like or dislike the reaction this brings, if any. No kid is going to face endless torment for wearing a dress at age 5.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
That is just making ridiculous assumptions.JimmyV said:
If you let your five year old boy wear a dress to school to prove a point then you are indeed using that boy to make a statement.rgambs said:
By refusing to allow the child to wear a dress it is YOU who is the parent that is using the child to make a statement!JimmyV said:
I'm suggesting it is up to the parents to tell a five year old boy he cannot wear a dress to school. When that child is older and capable of making his own decisions, and if that child still wants to wear a dress to school, then good for that child. If doing so, in time, changes social norms, then good for society. But a five year old boy is not old enough to make such a decision, and shouldn't be used by his parents or anyone else in this way to make a statement.rgambs said:
So at age 5 children are capable of understanding gender roles but not where they fit in them?JimmyV said:
No, the dress would be a distraction because even at age five children would realize that it was out of place. Much the same way they would if the boy showed up in a Halloween costume. Teacher's have a hard enough job without that kind of distraction. It's not about parents dictating what is acceptable or even about transgender children. (My apologies to the OP.) It is about a five year boy telling his parents he wants to wear something unacceptable to school. In that regard it is no different than pajamas or shorts in January. It is up to the parents to say no.rgambs said:
Still not a good example, a Halloween costume is not normal school wear and a dress is. Gender specificity is the only real gripe in the issue.JimmyV said:
The only thing that offends me is parents who are unwilling or unable to say no to their children. Part of the deal you signed up for when you had kids. If you are unable to tell your child "No, you cannot wear that dress to school" then you are probably unable to tell your child no about much else.dignin said:Wearing a dress to school isn't the same as wearing pajamas or shorts in January. Dress vs. Jeans is gender specific, that's what you have a problem with, the blurring of those lines. It's okay to admit it offends you. But you shouldn't be offended. It's no big deal.
You don't like the shorts or pajamas, then how about this: Wearing a dress to school = wearing a Halloween costume to school in April. Both are inappropriate because both are distractions. A boy wearing a dress to school is a distraction that would disrupt any classroom of five year old's in this country. If you want to let your child run around the backyard in a dress, go for it. Don't send them to school that way and impact other children.
The problem here isn't the dress or the child, it is the parents. Thanks though for trying to declare what I have a problem with and what offends me. We can't all be as enlightened as you.
The only reason a boy wearing a dress in school would be a distraction is because of parents (like you?) who try to dictate to their own children what is aacceptable in other people's children, thereby pushing societal and gender roles on kids who haven't yet discovered who they are and what they want to be.
Maybe someday boys wearing dresses will be a societal norm. That day is not today.
Are you suggesting societal norms arise spontaneously?
It seems to me that they come from parents' interpretions of the things their children see and ask about.
If you let him wear the dress simply because he wants to and you don't want to say no, then you are likely not saying no in other instances when you should.
Neither of these scenarios is one to be applauded.
First you assume that everyone understands wearing a dress is inappropriate, so allowing him to do so in the first case is proving a point. That is backwards, it is not allowing the dress that is making the statement, the statement being that dresses are inappropriate. Allowing the dress is making a non-ststatement, that clothes aren't Very important.
Second, you assume that if someone wants to foster independence and creativity by allowing a child to dress themselves they can't possibly be a parent who sets bboundaries.
Ridiculous.
Is your parenting style the only appropriate one?Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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