What if Humans Aren’t the Most Intelligent Creatures on the Planet?
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interesting.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
The book I referenced speaks to a tiger's revenge. Animals definitely seek revenge when motivated.HughFreakingDillon said:whispering, is there really NO instance of animal revenge? like a tiger fighting another tiger that may have killed its cub?
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Also, the day a whale makes a Tootsie Pop commercial, that is the day we can have a serious conversation on this topic.Be Excellent To Each OtherParty On, Dudes!0
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How do you know that all that whale singing isn't for marketing purposes?my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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As I said.. This field is growing everyday.. So as far as I myself have ever seen no there is no cases of revenge in the animal world. Does that mean it can never happen?? No. Like I said 26 years ago when I started this field of study, science as a whole stated point blank that animals don't HAVE emotional experiences. Now we know we do. As for this book, I would love to read that, because I have worked with big cats of many species, but have never been do lucky as to work with a Tiger, so I would love to read about the possibly only record of revenge being sought out by an animal. ( not being sarcastic.. I just WORK in this field and have NEVER heard of this). Again, just because myself or my peers haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it hasn't ever happened. There are always exceptions to every rule!Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
On the subject of tigers, I read a book, The Tiger, which was awesome.whispering hands said:
The cool thing is, 26 years ago when I first started studying the psychology of horses, it was believed that animals DIDN'T have emotions, regardless of research written upon it at length by Darwin, Pavlov, and many others. It was initially perceived that we reflected upon them our emotions. Now days, this fid has been upturned by the realization the they DO have emotions. However again, instinct will almost always trump emotion in an animal because it is just how they are programmed. It amazes me the idiocy of human beings that think owning an animalbrianlux said:
We really are capable of great things, Thirty, and it is good to remember especially because our finer traits are worth counting, promoting, encouraging.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:Our arrogance will always prevail in a conversation such as this. We can allude to countless items that would lend great support to our superiority in this debate, but nothing can ever be scientifically proven; therefore, a solid discussion topic.
As much as I hate what we are capable of... I love what we are capable of. I'm not sure their is an animal as complex as us and that alone speaks to our superior levels of intelligence.
My comment isn't about bragging rights as much as it is reality.
As far as our impact, like (I think it was) Speedy mentioned, so much of what we can do is all about the thumbs. I'm just not sure that makes us more intelligent or more complex. Rupert Sheldrake is mentioned in the article (linked at the head of this topic) and his work has revealed some very incredible and complex abilities of animals that we are just now beginning to understand. I don't think it wise of us to assume to much about things we don't fully understand.
It's a fascinating subject and I hope research in this field is allowed to continue. And I say "allowed" in response to Sheldrakes presentation on TED Talk being banned. I found that amazing and a bit disturbing. Like, really? Why?
Like a Tiger for example can be accomplished if enough affection and 'training' is involved. It is literally fascinating to me, that humans can't comprehend that it can't love you back. Can they feel affection towards you? Can it express surreal loyalty towards you ( dogs running into burning buildings to save their owners, or waiting at grave sites in mourning) ??? Yes. But can it love you.. I want to say yes to some degree, but realistically, the Toger probes what I know when they kill you.. No they can't instinct over rides emotion, 9 times out of 10.
Do in reality, I can't see this comparison type study dying out any time soon, because we are learning more and more everyday about himans and animals.. So I think it has a nice long shelf life ahead!
It spoke to the intelligence of the animal and told a story that can only be appreciated reading the book.0 -
Which is honestly why I find this field so fascinating!0
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C'mon everybody knows Dogs are smarter than us & just as important as a human Can we keep the posts to a few lines not whole books worth ...Post edited by josevolution onjesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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Great example of animal intelligence! Thanks! Will check out that documentary, for sure."What if Humans Aren’t the Most Intelligent Creatures on the Planet?"
We'd be in luck - if you haven't noticed, we're not doing so hot. Most other beings can live in balance with their environment and we can't even manage to achieve what amounts to maintaining the status quo. We may be 'intelligent' in our ability to temporarily upset the natural course of things, but is it intelligent to continue to do so? It seems to me our ability to 'cheat' the natural balance is temporary and nature will eventually rebalance things. It's difficult for me to believe our continuing to live as we do is a sign of intelligence.
As to animals not acting on emotions or possessing intellect - watch "Blackfish" (I think that's the name of the documentary?). Killer whales were observed protecting their calves from capture (I believe it was Sea World attempting to capture them - could be wrong) by having a few adults move in one direction as a 'pod' and discretely sending their calves in the other direction accompanied by just a couple of adults, to conceal them in a nearby bay area. Amazing stuff.
Cool article - thanks for sharing!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
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Especially thumb wars.SPEEDY MCCREADY said:
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Had that asteroid not hit 65 million years ago...PJ_Soul said:
Humans would have been naked, living in a cave, eating each others thumbs. And our species would have lasted about 30 minutes.
Take me piece by piece.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....0 -
you haven't seen Jurassic Park, have you? LOLSPEEDY MCCREADY said:
Had that asteroid not hit 65 million years ago...PJ_Soul said:
Humans would have been naked, living in a cave, eating each others thumbs. And our species would have lasted about 30 minutes.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
To pick - humans are animals, not all animals are humans; animals did become humans, ergo, animals can be (in some cases are) human.whispering hands said:Animals cannot be human.. They can't think as complexly as we do, and they can't equate emotion to action like we do.. Period. Believe me.. Until I took up this field of study I was just like you.. I wanted to think that too.. All my animals now are much happier that I am able to recognize that my dog will always only ever be a DOG.. Etc. it's just what it is.
I'm not sure it's safe ground to assume emotions are the result of anything but learned behavior (and evolution) for any kind of animal, including humans - so I agree, we likely respond to them differently. If we experience and act on our emotions in a qualitatively different way and have a limited understanding of how other species respond (which seems safe to infer), I am still stuck thinking we're falling to a perceived/ experienced intelligence bias because we are better able to study, comprehend and create attributes for our own forms of intelligence and emotional reactivity than an 'animal's'.
You have an interesting job!
Not to be crass, but my dog eats her own shit - sometimes whilst it 'comes available'. Do we say that's recycling or the result of a primitive mind? Jury's out... either way, my human 'intelligence' says it's gross (seriously... it's gross); logic says if it was good the first time, there's a good chance it will be on second pass; science says my little one is coprophagic and needs to go to the vet - maybe she has a problem with her pancreas; evolution says she will be eating (and surviving) a hellofa lot longer than I will be. I suppose it depends upon who's watchingjosevolution said:C'mon everybody knows Dogs are smarter than us & just as important as a human Can we keep the posts to a few lines not whole books worth ...
Post edited by InMyInnerSense on0 -
Your dog eats her shit while it's coming out?!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
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Also, if you haven't read The Botany of Desire: A Plant's-Eye View of the World Paperback – May 28, 2002 I highly recommend it.
We're basically being worked by our dogs, our plants, our food... who's actually the more intelligent? Perhaps your dog has forced you to speak its language 0 -
Coprophagia ( eating shit) is actually very common in dogs. Redirect her from Said act, and reward her reward her when she avoids it. Eventually she will learn that NOT eating her poo gets her a tasty treat.. Or at least a treat tastier than her own waste. Is that unsafe for them? Not really. As for the statement that an animal cannot be a human, I should have clarified that they cannot perform the complexities that we can. :-)
To pick - humans are animals, not all animals are humans; animals did become humans, ergo, animals can be (in some cases are) human.whispering hands said:Animals cannot be human.. They can't think as complexly as we do, and they can't equate emotion to action like we do.. Period. Believe me.. Until I took up this field of study I was just like you.. I wanted to think that too.. All my animals now are much happier that I am able to recognize that my dog will always only ever be a DOG.. Etc. it's just what it is.
I'm not sure it's safe ground to assume emotions are the result of anything but learned behavior (and evolution) for any kind of animal, including humans - so I agree, we likely respond to them differently. If we experience and act on our emotions in a qualitatively different way and have a limited understanding of how other species respond (which seems safe to infer), I am still stuck thinking we're falling to a perceived/ experienced intelligence bias because we are better able to study, comprehend and create attributes for our own forms of intelligence and emotional reactivity than an 'animal's'.
You have an interesting job!
Not to be crass, but my dog eats her own shit - sometimes whilst it 'comes available'. Do we say that's recycling or the result of a primitive mind? Jury's out... either way, my human 'intelligence' says it's gross (seriously... it's gross); logic says if it was good the first time, there's a good chance it will be on second pass; science says my little one is coprophagic and needs to go to the vet - maybe she has a problem with her pancreas; evolution says she will be eating (and surviving) a hellofa lot longer than I will be. I suppose it depends upon who's watchingjosevolution said:C'mon everybody knows Dogs are smarter than us & just as important as a human Can we keep the posts to a few lines not whole books worth ...
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Yes, great book!Also, if you haven't read The Botany of Desire: A Plant's-Eye View of the World Paperback – May 28, 2002 I highly recommend it.
We're basically being worked by our dogs, our plants, our food... who's actually the more intelligent? Perhaps your dog has forced you to speak its language
I haven't gotten dog down yet- after all these years, I'm still trying to learn cat. My current cat/god/despotic ruler Annie has taught me well so far. She even pretends to let me be boss now and then. Now if that isn't clever, intelligent reverse psychology, what is?!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
HA Brian. Am too weak mentally to own a cat. I know they are smarter than I and I don't trust them. Are truly fascinating.
So I'm a dog person.
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