What if Humans Aren’t the Most Intelligent Creatures on the Planet?

brianlux

Doesn't seem like a far fetched idea to me at all. What do you think?

(Too long to post the whole article, see link)
http://upliftconnect.com/humans-arent-intelligent-creatures-planet/

What if Humans Aren’t the Most Intelligent Creatures on the Planet?

Paul Watson Asks us to Redefine Intelligence

Cetologists observe, document, and decipher evidence that points to a profound intelligence dwelling in the oceans. It is an intelligence that predates our own evolution as intelligent primates by millions of years. – Paul Watson

I had a profound experience while kayaking in Hawaii this past winter with friends. We were visited by a whale and there is no doubt that this majestic being was coherent, aware of us, and enjoying our company as much as we were enjoying his. We put our snorkeling masks on and jumped in and could easily see the whale gently make eye contact with each of us. With one thrust of his tail he could have left in an instant but he stayed with us for over an hour. A mammal with a brain bigger than ours and complex migration songs that change every year, I couldn’t help but wonder what kind of thoughts could be going through his mind. The recent piece by Dawn Agnos on UPLIFT about a conversation with a horse shows that emotional intelligence and empathy are a language that many animals understand. It was only recently that terms like emotional intelligence emerged and it is interesting to consider that there are many different kinds of intelligence. Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd makes a good argument in a recent Facebook post that perhaps humans concept of intelligence is anthropocentric and lacking in breadth.

Watson starts early in his essay with the bold assertion that, “Biological science is provoking us to shatter our image of human superiority.” Though indigenous wisdom has always considered humans a part of the circle of life rather than above it, that sentiment has almost been completely destroyed by generations of colonial indoctrination. The very roots of colonial indoctrination not only conclude that humans are superior to all other life forms, it also considers some humans as superior to others. Social Darwinism, a myth, was an effort to use science to validate the behavior of employing superior weaponry to oppress other humans. Though we owe much respect to western science we must also understand the cultural and religious backdrop from which this discipline emerged. We must also be willing to explore the assumptions within science if we are to evolve it.

callen

Brian, great thread and article. I frequently challenge our perceived superiority and always fascinated by looking into other creatures eyes and attempting to think of what's going on inside. Horse or cows really stand out as well as dogs and cats.

brianlux

callen said:

Brian, great thread and article. I frequently challenge our perceived superiority and always fascinated by looking into other creatures eyes and attempting to think of what's going on inside. Horse or cows really stand out as well as dogs and cats.

Well said, Callen.

There's a picture in the article that illustrates that a dolphin's brain is larger and appears more complex than the human brain. It's also fascinating to consider that our cleverness with tools is not necessarily an indicator of higher intelligence.

All of this gives me further cause to consider that we would be wise to be more considerate of how we treat the oceans (which we use as a dumping ground for trash and toxins) which is the home base for these marvelous and intelligent creatures.

Last-12-Exit

If we weren't the most intelligent animals on the planet, we wouldn't be on top of the food chain. Luckily dinosaurs aren't around anymore.

I haven't read the article yet. But it looks interesting.

brianlux

Last-12-Exit said:

If we weren't the most intelligent animals on the planet, we wouldn't be on top of the food chain. Luckily dinosaurs aren't around anymore.

I haven't read the article yet. But it looks interesting.

Being on top of the food chain makes us more intelligent? Once you read the article, Last 12, you might see it differently

Last-12-Exit

brianlux said:

Last-12-Exit said:

If we weren't the most intelligent animals on the planet, we wouldn't be on top of the food chain. Luckily dinosaurs aren't around anymore.

I haven't read the article yet. But it looks interesting.

Being on top of the food chain makes us more intelligent? Once you read the article, Last 12, you might see it differently

No, I haven't read it yet. Just based what I wrote your thread title. I will read it when I have a bit more time. However I do do think intelligence and evolution go hand in hand.

callen

Last-12-Exit said:

If we weren't the most intelligent animals on the planet, we wouldn't be on top of the food chain. Luckily dinosaurs aren't around anymore.

I haven't read the article yet. But it looks interesting.

The dumb kids regularly beats up the smart kid.

HughFreakingDillon

callen said:

Last-12-Exit said:

If we weren't the most intelligent animals on the planet, we wouldn't be on top of the food chain. Luckily dinosaurs aren't around anymore.

I haven't read the article yet. But it looks interesting.

The dumb kids regularly beats up the smart kid.

that's not really an accurate summary of what Last 12 was trying to say, in my view.

Sure, if we think of intelligence outside the box as being in harmony with nature and our overall surroundings, one could argue that humanity is actually less intelligent than in years past (as the article also mentions-like untouched tribes). But then we have to redefine intelligence. I think intelligence is seperate from action. Sure, many humans destroy the earth, litter, kill each other, leave the lights on when they aren't home, etc, etc, but that doesn't mean that COLLECTIVELY the human race is less intelligent than a whale or a dolphin.

many humans are pleasantly ignorant of their negative surroundings, completely happy, do nothing but good, but does that make them more intelligent than someone with a higher IQ? I don't know about that.

I don't consider that intelligent, in the traditional sense of the word. Intelligent to me is brain capacity. Emotional intelligence is differentiated for a reason. there is emotional, and there is cranial.

PJ_Soul

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

whispering hands

Intelligence is best defined, and understood as the making use of processed information in our day to day lives. There are 10 basic types, ( 12 if you count the sub forms of logical intelligences), all based on particular sections of brain usage/function. So to say we are the most intelligent creature on earth is really rather stupid. We are one of very few species that squanders resources, and then 're-adapts' into the usage of secondary resources. Some others include sheep, goats and pigs. Now having mentioned pigs, they are REGULARLY classified as a most intelligent animal. ( you can teach a pig more tricks than a dog for example, ALMOST as many as you can teach a horse). Dolphins however have the highest capacity to learn and morize active 'tricks'. But they don't have quite the same problem solving skills as a Crow. So really, intelligence is a matter more of defined perception than a definite divination. As for wether we are the smartest beings in the planet, seeing how we are the only species that has serial killers, or rapists, and child moletsers, even given the ability to weigh reason upon conscience.. I'd say that is a lie. I think we made it to the top simply because we took advantage of our abilities over the disadvantages of other species.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

I agree 100%.
Its all about the thumbs.

whispering hands

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

Not quite.. Apes and primates of like sort have very very high intelligence, and the closest thing TO opposable thumbs, and they aren't ruling things. It is a matter of advantage for sure.. But o think our thumbs have nothing to do with it. It's how we USE the jntligenve we have.. Versus using it in in the most basic sense. Really the only thing that truly sets us apart from the animals, OTHER than our THUMBS, is the ability to process multiple capacities of intellect at one time. Animals don't serve emotion, they don't use logic, and they can't reason, at least not on the level we can. However.. I do think what you're saying about humans and luck?? Is dead on.. We got lucky, plain and simple.

HughFreakingDillon

if you are going to use cognitive ability as your benchmark, then let me know when a horse can perform brain surgery, or play a guitar, and then maybe I'll back the claim that they are more intelligent than humans.

the bad things people do to each other are in no way relative of the species intelligence, as often as people (myself included) sometimes use that as an example in hyperbolic instances.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

not a chance. if it was all based on physical characteristics, then we wouldn't have made it to the top. there are many physically superior beings.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

not a chance. if it was all based on physical characteristics, then we wouldn't have made it to the top. there are many physically superior beings.

Without thumbs, we couldn't make tools.
Without tools, we couldn't have survived as a species. Right?
Its all about the thumbs.

HughFreakingDillon

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

not a chance. if it was all based on physical characteristics, then we wouldn't have made it to the top. there are many physically superior beings.

Without thumbs, we couldn't make tools.
Without tools, we couldn't have survived as a species. Right?
Its all about the thumbs.

they do help in making tacos.

whispering hands

HughFreakingDillon said:

if you are going to use cognitive ability as your benchmark, then let me know when a horse can perform brain surgery, or play a guitar, and then maybe I'll back the claim that they are more intelligent than humans.

the bad things people do to each other are in no way relative of the species intelligence, as often as people (myself included) sometimes use that as an example in hyperbolic instances.

Actually I never said a horse was smarter than a human. However, if they had the body set that allowed it, they DO have the capability to learn to do so. As for heinous acts, yes it does prove lack of intelligence, because it requires the need to ignore the natural understanding of right from wrong. And while right and wrong are taught principles, deep down every person that murderes or accosts another human KNOWS on an internal level that what they are doing is wrong. The ability to divert from that is lack of intellectual process. In other words they never make it that far in the thought process, this is considered a mental illness. That doesn't mean that person is less intelligent, it just means that piece of intellect is missing.

whispering hands

And here's something to consider. We are the only species that contemplated our intelligence, let alone measures it. We are the only species known at the moment to contemplate and or decide things based on a perception. ( we are the only animal Ln
Earth that judges each other based on appearance. (for every other species, it has to do with weakness, illness, or posture.)

HughFreakingDillon

whispering hands said:

And here's something to consider. We are the only species that contemplated our intelligence, let alone measures it. We are the only species known at the moment to contemplate and or decide things based on a perception. ( we are the only animal Ln
Earth that judges each other based on appearance. (for every other species, it has to do with weakness, illness, or posture.)

completely incorrect. countless species base their choice of mate on appearance.

HughFreakingDillon

whispering hands said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

if you are going to use cognitive ability as your benchmark, then let me know when a horse can perform brain surgery, or play a guitar, and then maybe I'll back the claim that they are more intelligent than humans.

the bad things people do to each other are in no way relative of the species intelligence, as often as people (myself included) sometimes use that as an example in hyperbolic instances.

Actually I never said a horse was smarter than a human. However, if they had the body set that allowed it, they DO have the capability to learn to do so. As for heinous acts, yes it does prove lack of intelligence, because it requires the need to ignore the natural understanding of right from wrong. And while right and wrong are taught principles, deep down every person that murderes or accosts another human KNOWS on an internal level that what they are doing is wrong. The ability to divert from that is lack of intellectual process. In other words they never make it that far in the thought process, this is considered a mental illness. That doesn't mean that person is less intelligent, it just means that piece of intellect is missing.

they absolutely do not have the brain capacity to allow them to do so, body type or not. I can't believe this is even being argued.

it's not a lack of intellectual process. it's a lack of giving a shit. it's called free will. there are bad people.

there actually many many cases of animals acting like "assholes" in nature as well.

read the article again. even the author is aware that this idea is "fun to comtemplate". and it mostly speaks to emotional intelligence, not cognitive.

liking animals better than humans doesn't make them smarter.

PJ_Soul

whispering hands said:

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

Not quite.. Apes and primates of like sort have very very high intelligence, and the closest thing TO opposable thumbs, and they aren't ruling things. It is a matter of advantage for sure.. But o think our thumbs have nothing to do with it. It's how we USE the jntligenve we have.. Versus using it in in the most basic sense. Really the only thing that truly sets us apart from the animals, OTHER than our THUMBS, is the ability to process multiple capacities of intellect at one time. Animals don't serve emotion, they don't use logic, and they can't reason, at least not on the level we can. However.. I do think what you're saying about humans and luck?? Is dead on.. We got lucky, plain and simple.

They don't have opposable thumbs. They are incapable of fine motor skills. If there could put together a computer, I bet they could probably learn how to. At least the smart ones.
Actually, whales, dolphins, primates, and elephants do indeed act on emotion. I'm thinking you might be confusing their inability to communicate fully with humans for a lack of intelligence. Apparently, scientists who have analyzed the brains of whales and dolphins say that it's quite likely that they have at least as much emotional intelligence as humans, and may actually be MORE intelligent (but I'm not talking horses here. I have never seen any scientific study suggesting that the intelligence of horses even comes close to that of humans).

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

not a chance. if it was all based on physical characteristics, then we wouldn't have made it to the top. there are many physically superior beings.

Not when it comes to starting fires, building machanical devices, etc. Without our ability to build things, we'd be nothing. How fast we can run, or how easily whe can tear down a tree is neither here nor there in this context.

PJ_Soul

.

Last-12-Exit

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

Thumbs do help, but having opposable thumbs is not what makes us intelligent.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

not a chance. if it was all based on physical characteristics, then we wouldn't have made it to the top. there are many physically superior beings.

Not when it comes to starting fires, building machanical devices, etc. Without our ability to build things, we'd be nothing. How fast we can run, or how easily whe can tear down a tree is neither here nor there in this context.

not nothing, but we'd still be superior, because of our intelligence.

humankind spent many thousands of years thriving without building a single thing.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

whispering hands said:

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

Not quite.. Apes and primates of like sort have very very high intelligence, and the closest thing TO opposable thumbs, and they aren't ruling things. It is a matter of advantage for sure.. But o think our thumbs have nothing to do with it. It's how we USE the jntligenve we have.. Versus using it in in the most basic sense. Really the only thing that truly sets us apart from the animals, OTHER than our THUMBS, is the ability to process multiple capacities of intellect at one time. Animals don't serve emotion, they don't use logic, and they can't reason, at least not on the level we can. However.. I do think what you're saying about humans and luck?? Is dead on.. We got lucky, plain and simple.

They don't have opposable thumbs. They are incapable of fine motor skills. If there could put together a computer, I bet they could probably learn how to. At least the smart ones.
Actually, whales, dolphins, primates, and elephants do indeed act on emotion. I'm thinking you might be confusing their inability to communicate fully with humans for a lack of intelligence. Apparently, scientists who have analyzed the brains of whales and dolphins say that it's quite likely that they have at least as much emotional intelligence as humans, and may actually be MORE intelligent (but I'm not talking horses here. I have never seen any scientific study suggesting that the intelligence of horses even comes close to that of humans).

show me one scientific study that states that whales and dolphins are possibly more INTELLECTUAL than humans.

if they are, I'd better brush up on my accounting skills. Flipper might take my job.

whispering hands

The truth is that intellect and intelligence are relevant to circumstance. Dolphins survive underwater explicitly well. We can't. A horse and an elephant Both have internal mapping systems that allow them to travel to a place ONE time, from then on, from anywhere on earth get back to that one place; from MEMORY ALONE! We can't do that! We can devise complicated structures, and complex mathematics, they can't... it's all relevant to what is necessary for survival. Period. The fact that we possess the ability to set ourselves apart from them by THOSE standards doesn't point to greater intellect. It points out that the needs for different types of intellect, Is in greater demand in our worlds versus theirs.. Period.

whispering hands

A better way to say this would be, the only way Flipper could steal your job as an accountant is if somehow, he developed the need to count, hoard or dispense fish to other Dolphins, or other creature.

whispering hands

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

whispering hands said:

PJ_Soul said:

If whales, dolphins, and maybe even elephants had hands capable of fine motor skills, they very well might be on top of the food chain. But since they are physically limited, humans win. I think it's got more to do with opposable thumbs than it does intelligence. Lucky fucking humans!

Not quite.. Apes and primates of like sort have very very high intelligence, and the closest thing to opposable thumbs, and they aren't ruling things. It is a matter of advantage for sure.. But o think our thumbs have nothing to do with it. It's how we USE the jntligenve we have.. Versus using it in in the most basic sense. Really the only thing that truly sets us apart from the animals, OTHER than our THUMBS, is the ability to process multiple capacities of intellect at one time. Animals don't serve emotion, they don't use logic, and they can't reason, at least not on the level we can. However.. I do think what you're saying about humans and luck?? Is dead on.. We got lucky, plain and simple.

They don't have opposable thumbs. They are incapable of fine motor skills. If there could put together a computer, I bet they could probably learn how to. At least the smart ones.
Actually, whales, dolphins, primates, and elephants do indeed act on emotion. I'm thinking you might be confusing their inability to communicate fully with humans for a lack of intelligence. Apparently, scientists who have analyzed the brains of whales and dolphins say that it's quite likely that they have at least as much emotional intelligence as humans, and may actually be MORE intelligent (but I'm not talking horses here. I have never seen any scientific study suggesting that the intelligence of horses even comes close to that of humans).

show me one scientific study that states that whales and dolphins are possibly more INTELLECTUAL than humans.

if they are, I'd better brush up on my accounting skills. Flipper might take my job.

HughFreakingDillon

whispering hands said:

The truth is that intellect and intelligence are relevant to circumstance. Dolphins survive underwater explicitly well. We can't. A horse and an elephant Both have internal mapping systems that allow them to travel to a place ONE time, from then on, from anywhere on earth get back to that one place; from MEMORY ALONE! We can't do that! We can devise complicated structures, and complex mathematics, they can't... it's all relevant to what is necessary for survival. Period. The fact that we possess the ability to set ourselves apart from them by THOSE standards doesn't point to greater intellect. It points out that the needs for different types of intellect, Is in greater demand in our worlds versus theirs.. Period.

but we are talking exclusively about human intellect in this context. so yes, it does point to greater intellect.

and saying "period" a bunch of times doesn't make someone right.

whispering hands

And no horses are no where NEAR the same scale of intellect as humans. And while animals do EXPERIENCE emotions, they don't serve them like we do. The closest I've found in my research is the elephant and the whale. But we actually ACT on emotions. Animals do not. They experience them, they suffer grief, they are attatched to their offspring, but they don't practice vengeance, they don't lie to cover guilt, they don't conspire against one another.. These are all actions based on emotional motive. Animals don't have that capacity, is what I was saying, when I said they don't serve emotion.