The National Football League

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

cheating to win? what a bunch of fucking children. brady and belechik should be banned for life.

Poncier · May 2015

HesCalledDyer said:

Poncier said:
At least the NFL is even handed and consistent.
Consistency my ass!!

Brady - 4 games for under-inflated footballs
Ray Rice - 2 games for indisputable video evidence of beating the fuck out of his wife

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_mrNQBLSMU

pjhawks · May 2015

why is it so hard for the Patriots and their fans to admit they got caught cheating (again) and accept their penalties like adults? as i predicted a few pages ago in this thread the amount of deflecting away from the actual cheating from the pats and their fans is pretty annoying and frankly absurd. you cheated, you got caught now stfu (in general not anyone personally in this thread)

Poncier · May 2015

jeffbr said:

Last-12-Exit said:
And for those that think Brady cheated without a shadow of a doubt, do you think he would have been convicted of a crime had the same evidence been presented in court?
Criminal court? No. That standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil court? Perhaps. There you only need a preponderance of evidence, and based on tweets, testimony, and the report, that bar may have been met.

I don't think this means much anyway. Kraft can pay the fine without blinking. Brady can handle a 4 game loss of income without resorting to Top Ramen. The Patriots' reputation hasn't really been impacted, because most fans outside of New England already have a negative opinion of the organization, and most fans in the New England area are sticking by their team no matter what. The Patriot's record might take a hit next season due to the Brady suspension, but they'll still win the division, and will still have a shot at getting back to the Superbowl. So at this point it is an interesting story, and some off-season buzz, but it won't really change anything.

The one thing you leave out is actually the most impactful and the one punishment that doesn't fit this situation at all and that is the loss of a first round draft pick. That's losing a top flight player for maybe 10 seasons or so.
If the league had suspended Brady and fined the team the million. I wouldn't be overly bothered, Brady's suspension will get lowered to 2 or 3 on appeal, the million is relatively minor to an NFL owner. It's the draft pick loss that is the severe and unjustified part of the punishment.

Jason P · May 2015

The Pats stand to make a $800K profit if Brady misses 4 games and they are fined $1M cause they don't have to pay Brady $1.8M in salary.

Even when they are punished the Pats still win ...

norm · May 2015

The Juggler said:
again--this is the dumbest scandal to ever exist in professional sports.

SPEEDY MCCREADY · May 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJETB-MfpnQ

HesCalledDyer · May 2015

pjhawks said:
why is it so hard for the Patriots and their fans to admit they got caught cheating (again) and accept their penalties like adults? as i predicted a few pages ago in this thread the amount of deflecting away from the actual cheating from the pats and their fans is pretty annoying and frankly absurd. you cheated, you got caught now stfu (in general not anyone personally in this thread)

So where are the Colts penalties for cheating, because they had 3 under-inflated footballs in the very same game?

Halifax2TheMax · May 2015

HesCalledDyer said:

pjhawks said:
why is it so hard for the Patriots and their fans to admit they got caught cheating (again) and accept their penalties like adults? as i predicted a few pages ago in this thread the amount of deflecting away from the actual cheating from the pats and their fans is pretty annoying and frankly absurd. you cheated, you got caught now stfu (in general not anyone personally in this thread)
So where are the Colts penalties for cheating, because they had 3 under-inflated footballs in the very same game?

You know, that's a good question. When this story broke, the home page on my computer, msn, had the story with a link to pictures from the AFC championship game. There were about 40 pictures posted on this link and they were action shots of both teams, running backs, receivers, quarterbacks, defenses, etc. Roughly 2/3s were of players in possession of a football, Brady back to pass, ball in hand, arm cocked. Running backs cradling the ball or covering up about to get tackled, etc. etc. Same for the Colts. There was only one picture where you could see the player's grip indent the ball, with his thumb as he gripped. One picture. It was Andrew Luck about to get hit or sacked while poised to throw. I've searched but have been unable to find the same 40 pictures or the link. If I do, I'll post it. Coincidence?

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

jeffbr said:

Last-12-Exit said:
And for those that think Brady cheated without a shadow of a doubt, do you think he would have been convicted of a crime had the same evidence been presented in court?
Criminal court? No. That standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil court? Perhaps. There you only need a preponderance of evidence, and based on tweets, testimony, and the report, that bar may have been met.

I don't think this means much anyway. Kraft can pay the fine without blinking. Brady can handle a 4 game loss of income without resorting to Top Ramen. The Patriots' reputation hasn't really been impacted, because most fans outside of New England already have a negative opinion of the organization, and most fans in the New England area are sticking by their team no matter what. The Patriot's record might take a hit next season due to the Brady suspension, but they'll still win the division, and will still have a shot at getting back to the Superbowl. So at this point it is an interesting story, and some off-season buzz, but it won't really change anything.

It's not a guarantee that the pats win the division. At all. And it's not about the loss of income for Brady. At all. I'm not sure how much Twitter is used in trials, but I doubt it's credible. And the simple fact that these two equipment guys hate Brady plays another part in this. It's not like they're friends and trying to cover for him. These guys didn't like him.

Jason P · May 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

jeffbr said:

Last-12-Exit said:
And for those that think Brady cheated without a shadow of a doubt, do you think he would have been convicted of a crime had the same evidence been presented in court?
Criminal court? No. That standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil court? Perhaps. There you only need a preponderance of evidence, and based on tweets, testimony, and the report, that bar may have been met.

I don't think this means much anyway. Kraft can pay the fine without blinking. Brady can handle a 4 game loss of income without resorting to Top Ramen. The Patriots' reputation hasn't really been impacted, because most fans outside of New England already have a negative opinion of the organization, and most fans in the New England area are sticking by their team no matter what. The Patriot's record might take a hit next season due to the Brady suspension, but they'll still win the division, and will still have a shot at getting back to the Superbowl. So at this point it is an interesting story, and some off-season buzz, but it won't really change anything.

It's not a guarantee that the pats win the division. At all. And it's not about the loss of income for Brady. At all. I'm not sure how much Twitter is used in trials, but I doubt it's credible. And the simple fact that these two equipment guys hate Brady plays another part in this. It's not like they're friends and trying to cover for him. These guys didn't like him.

Of course they don't like him. Brady is using his power position to make an easily replaceable job position do underhanded illegal activity ... And then Tom is bitching at them when they fail to meet the illegal standards he wants.

If you are an equipment manager and one of the all-time QB instructs you to do something underhanded, do you risk your 20 year career and say no way, or comply and keep your job?

You do what any schlub does in that situation and you comply. Or you take a stand in the name of integrity and then find yourself sending in your resume at the local Home Depot when they kick your ass to the curb.

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

Jason P said:

Last-12-Exit said:

jeffbr said:

Last-12-Exit said:
And for those that think Brady cheated without a shadow of a doubt, do you think he would have been convicted of a crime had the same evidence been presented in court?
Criminal court? No. That standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil court? Perhaps. There you only need a preponderance of evidence, and based on tweets, testimony, and the report, that bar may have been met.

I don't think this means much anyway. Kraft can pay the fine without blinking. Brady can handle a 4 game loss of income without resorting to Top Ramen. The Patriots' reputation hasn't really been impacted, because most fans outside of New England already have a negative opinion of the organization, and most fans in the New England area are sticking by their team no matter what. The Patriot's record might take a hit next season due to the Brady suspension, but they'll still win the division, and will still have a shot at getting back to the Superbowl. So at this point it is an interesting story, and some off-season buzz, but it won't really change anything.

It's not a guarantee that the pats win the division. At all. And it's not about the loss of income for Brady. At all. I'm not sure how much Twitter is used in trials, but I doubt it's credible. And the simple fact that these two equipment guys hate Brady plays another part in this. It's not like they're friends and trying to cover for him. These guys didn't like him.
Of course they don't like him. Brady is using his power position to make an easily replaceable job position do underhanded illegal activity ... And then Tom is bitching at them when they fail to meet the illegal standards he wants.

If you are an equipment manager and one of the all-time QB instructs you to do something underhanded, do you risk your 20 year career and say no way, or comply and keep your job?

You do what any schlub does in that situation and you comply. Or you take a stand in the name of integrity and then find yourself sending in your resume at the local Home Depot when they kick your ass to the curb.

I disagree. Odds are these guys are pats fans and want to see them win. If Brady throws the guys a couple hundred bucks a week for doing such illicit activities, they probably keep there mouths shut and don't say a word to Wells. But for whatever reason, they don't like him. I highly doubt it's because Tom Brady is asking them to break their moral convictions.

g under p · May 2015

Being a 40 year Patriot fan the absolute worse thing about this whole nonsense is that two guys are going to or have lost their jobs for doing what they were told to do. If they were on some other team and were told to do the same they would have also. They won't be able to take care their families with the suspension or lost of this job.

I do wonder IF they will STILL get a Super Bowl ring. They should in my humble opinion. Unfortunately someone has to be the scapegoats, as usual and it's they guys at the bottom of the heep.

Peace

Jason P · May 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

Jason P said:

Last-12-Exit said:

jeffbr said:

Last-12-Exit said:
And for those that think Brady cheated without a shadow of a doubt, do you think he would have been convicted of a crime had the same evidence been presented in court?
Criminal court? No. That standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil court? Perhaps. There you only need a preponderance of evidence, and based on tweets, testimony, and the report, that bar may have been met.

I don't think this means much anyway. Kraft can pay the fine without blinking. Brady can handle a 4 game loss of income without resorting to Top Ramen. The Patriots' reputation hasn't really been impacted, because most fans outside of New England already have a negative opinion of the organization, and most fans in the New England area are sticking by their team no matter what. The Patriot's record might take a hit next season due to the Brady suspension, but they'll still win the division, and will still have a shot at getting back to the Superbowl. So at this point it is an interesting story, and some off-season buzz, but it won't really change anything.

It's not a guarantee that the pats win the division. At all. And it's not about the loss of income for Brady. At all. I'm not sure how much Twitter is used in trials, but I doubt it's credible. And the simple fact that these two equipment guys hate Brady plays another part in this. It's not like they're friends and trying to cover for him. These guys didn't like him.
Of course they don't like him. Brady is using his power position to make an easily replaceable job position do underhanded illegal activity ... And then Tom is bitching at them when they fail to meet the illegal standards he wants.

If you are an equipment manager and one of the all-time QB instructs you to do something underhanded, do you risk your 20 year career and say no way, or comply and keep your job?

You do what any schlub does in that situation and you comply. Or you take a stand in the name of integrity and then find yourself sending in your resume at the local Home Depot when they kick your ass to the curb.
I disagree. Odds are these guys are pats fans and want to see them win. If Brady throws the guys a couple hundred bucks a week for doing such illicit activities, they probably keep there mouths shut and don't say a word to Wells. But for whatever reason, they don't like him. I highly doubt it's because Tom Brady is asking them to break their moral convictions.

So you are implying they are Pats fans, working under the greatest QB of Pats history, and they don't like him? Why wouldn't they like him?

Possible reasons? They don't like the Pats (unlikely), or Tom was a dick to them? (Likely).

Why would Super Pats fans undermine their prophet?

The Juggler · May 2015

Poncier said:

MayDay10 said:

I dont see the equivalency in the Vikings/Panthers game. It was cold there. There were big heaters. I dont know. .
Oh, so when its cold, breaking rules is no big deal?
Heating the footballs violated the rule, the league stated this. Just like having them underinflated violates the rule. The Panthers and Vikings were told by the league to stop and don't do it again. The Patriots were subjected to a 100 plus day investigation, a million dollar fine, 2 lost draft picks and a 4 game suspension for their QB.
But the league is even handed and consistent.

Yep. And the NFL was tipped off the night BEFORE the game but didn't give them a warning or anything...why??

Dumbest sports scandal ever.

Halifax2TheMax · May 2015

Not only that but the NFL was notified a week before the game or after the first Indy game and they let them play a whole half of football in an AFC Championship game no less, knowing the Patriots might have altered the balls. I see Irsay's bitter, bitter hands all over this. And why only 4 of Indy's balls get checked at halftime and not all 12? What were they hiding?

The Juggler · May 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:
Not only that but the NFL was notified a week before the game or after the first Indy game and they let them play a whole half of football in an AFC Championship game no less, knowing the Patriots might have altered the balls. I see Irsay's bitter, bitter hands all over this. And why only 4 of Indy's balls get checked at halftime and not all 12? What were they hiding?

nfl caved to pressure from the media. plain and simple.

pjhawks · May 2015

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
Not only that but the NFL was notified a week before the game or after the first Indy game and they let them play a whole half of football in an AFC Championship game no less, knowing the Patriots might have altered the balls. I see Irsay's bitter, bitter hands all over this. And why only 4 of Indy's balls get checked at halftime and not all 12? What were they hiding?
nfl caved to pressure from the media. plain and simple.

yes it's the media fault the Patriots are cheaters. jeezus

the Patriots themselves could have ended this the day after it came up after the AFC Championship but their smugness and arrogance wouldn't allow that. they reap what they have sown.

The Juggler · May 2015

pjhawks said:

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
Not only that but the NFL was notified a week before the game or after the first Indy game and they let them play a whole half of football in an AFC Championship game no less, knowing the Patriots might have altered the balls. I see Irsay's bitter, bitter hands all over this. And why only 4 of Indy's balls get checked at halftime and not all 12? What were they hiding?
nfl caved to pressure from the media. plain and simple.
yes it's the media fault the Patriots are cheaters. jeezus

the Patriots themselves could have ended this the day after it came up after the AFC Championship but their smugness and arrogance wouldn't allow that. they reap what they have sown.

yeah, maybe. but it's the dumbest rule to begin with. such a minor infraction, yet the media drove the nfl to this ridiculous ruling. the outrage by people is just hilarious to me....

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

Jason P said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Jason P said:

Last-12-Exit said:

jeffbr said:

Last-12-Exit said:
And for those that think Brady cheated without a shadow of a doubt, do you think he would have been convicted of a crime had the same evidence been presented in court?
Criminal court? No. That standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil court? Perhaps. There you only need a preponderance of evidence, and based on tweets, testimony, and the report, that bar may have been met.

I don't think this means much anyway. Kraft can pay the fine without blinking. Brady can handle a 4 game loss of income without resorting to Top Ramen. The Patriots' reputation hasn't really been impacted, because most fans outside of New England already have a negative opinion of the organization, and most fans in the New England area are sticking by their team no matter what. The Patriot's record might take a hit next season due to the Brady suspension, but they'll still win the division, and will still have a shot at getting back to the Superbowl. So at this point it is an interesting story, and some off-season buzz, but it won't really change anything.

It's not a guarantee that the pats win the division. At all. And it's not about the loss of income for Brady. At all. I'm not sure how much Twitter is used in trials, but I doubt it's credible. And the simple fact that these two equipment guys hate Brady plays another part in this. It's not like they're friends and trying to cover for him. These guys didn't like him.
Of course they don't like him. Brady is using his power position to make an easily replaceable job position do underhanded illegal activity ... And then Tom is bitching at them when they fail to meet the illegal standards he wants.

If you are an equipment manager and one of the all-time QB instructs you to do something underhanded, do you risk your 20 year career and say no way, or comply and keep your job?

You do what any schlub does in that situation and you comply. Or you take a stand in the name of integrity and then find yourself sending in your resume at the local Home Depot when they kick your ass to the curb.
I disagree. Odds are these guys are pats fans and want to see them win. If Brady throws the guys a couple hundred bucks a week for doing such illicit activities, they probably keep there mouths shut and don't say a word to Wells. But for whatever reason, they don't like him. I highly doubt it's because Tom Brady is asking them to break their moral convictions.
So you are implying they are Pats fans, working under the greatest QB of Pats history, and they don't like him? Why wouldn't they like him?

Possible reasons? They don't like the Pats (unlikely), or Tom was a dick to them? (Likely).

Why would Super Pats fans undermine their prophet?

Just a guess that they are patriot fans. I have no clue why they don't like Brady. Probably because he was a dick to them. I have no clue what you mean by super pats fans undermining their prophet. I've said from the beginning that these guys didn't like Brady.

My point is that if these guys liked Brady at all, they wouldn't have said anything to Wells.

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