Pit bull lover? Don't live in Mississippi
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Not at all sure where you were going with this...you seem to be arguing the innate wildness of dogs but the excert is making a point AGAINST that theory...PJfanwillneverleave1 said:It is strange at times that problems in society that people have with pitbulls reminds me of a prolific novel I once read.
I read this book quite some time ago and this extract has played key when I try to explain to people how "they just don't understand how an infant in a car seat was mauled by their family dog",
let alone a fucking pitbull.
Pitbull owners like their owners are a special breed not to be confused with owners of pets eventually look like them.
http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/4218-extract-from-chapter-2-of-the-greatest-show-on-earth-the-truth-dogs-reveal-about-evolution
Fuck pitbulls
They continue to be bred with the selfish gene.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Better call.... Mike Vick and Cruella Deville.Last-12-Exit said:
Dalmations are also a breed I could live without seeing again for the rest of my life.rr165892 said:Btw Dalmations I think are the breed that bites the most,followed by the poodle.If I am remembering proper.
seriously though.....pit bulls were bred for blood sports so inherently they will have the tendency to attack. my in-laws had a Rottweiler for years.. they had her professionally trained. and she was the sweetest dog ever. so big she could lift you up off your feet. so I can see why people would fear these dogs if they are not properly trained from birth. I really don't know how I feel other than I would never approach either of these breeds if I didn't trust the owner and know 100% that they had been thru some kind of training.
Edit: Here is a link for you Scott.... I know you are a sports fan too.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25101022/report-jadeveon-clowney-bitten-by-teammates-pit-bullPost edited by lolobugg onlivefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
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they passed some sort of laws against pit bulls a few years back just over the river in council bluffs, Iowa from where I live here in Omaha... Either way...this is a tough topic that I can relate with both sides... so sorry,..but quite frankly... I'm staying out of this one...0
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Here is something interesting a quick google search turned up...https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php
It appears that a child is much more likely to suffer at the hands of a family member than a dog.
"In 2012, state agencies identified an estimated 1,640 children who died as a result of abuse and neglect — between four and five children a day. 3 However, studies also indicate significant undercounting of child maltreatment fatalities by state agencies — by 50% or more. 10"
"A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 deaths in the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008."
"Every year more than 3 million reports of child abuse are made in the United States involving more than 6 million children (a report can include multiple children)."
"In 2001, an estimated 368,245 persons were treated in U.S. emergency rooms for nonfatal dog bite-related injuries."
Of course, these stats don't come close to telling the whole story...Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Have mixed thoughts on Pits.
First it's NOT the dogs fault.
I have very close friend and he has two and his buddies have several more. When I go to their house and they are outside they come at me. Once I'm in the pack all kisses and petting. Pits are dangerous and I don't understand why one would want one.
I do though know that many love their dogs. Had dogs all my life including German shepherd.
As with Guns and yes perfect example Humans aren't very swift and many can't handle responsibility of owning a Pitt.
So I think we should stop breeding them. Yes get that there are other dogs out there that hurt but Pitts are a problem.
Unauthorized search and seizure is nuts.Post edited by callen on10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
Good points, callen...and as to stopping breeding them, I say this goes for all. Might as well throw cats into that mix.
Neuter / spay your animals, people! Shelters and rescues are overflowing. I say once they're emptied, let the breeding begin again.0 -
And more people die or get injured in automobile accidents than guns each year.rgambs said:Here is something interesting a quick google search turned up...https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php
It appears that a child is much more likely to suffer at the hands of a family member than a dog.
"In 2012, state agencies identified an estimated 1,640 children who died as a result of abuse and neglect — between four and five children a day. 3 However, studies also indicate significant undercounting of child maltreatment fatalities by state agencies — by 50% or more. 10"
"A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 deaths in the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008."
"Every year more than 3 million reports of child abuse are made in the United States involving more than 6 million children (a report can include multiple children)."
"In 2001, an estimated 368,245 persons were treated in U.S. emergency rooms for nonfatal dog bite-related injuries."
Of course, these stats don't come close to telling the whole story...
So what are you saying?"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
I'm not against this (provided the process makes sense) because it would benefit the dogs as well. You should not have a large breed sporting dog if you do not exercise often...dogs need to cover miles, if you wont do that, you shouldnt have any of the "dangerous" or high energy breeds.Jason P said:I look at pit bull ownership the same way I do gun regulation. You should have to take a test to prove you are competent and obtain a a license.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Just saying it is interesting to note the scale of the problem. As I said, it doesn't tell the whole story, it's not an argument as much as a note.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
And more people die or get injured in automobile accidents than guns each year.rgambs said:Here is something interesting a quick google search turned up...https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php
It appears that a child is much more likely to suffer at the hands of a family member than a dog.
"In 2012, state agencies identified an estimated 1,640 children who died as a result of abuse and neglect — between four and five children a day. 3 However, studies also indicate significant undercounting of child maltreatment fatalities by state agencies — by 50% or more. 10"
"A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 deaths in the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008."
"Every year more than 3 million reports of child abuse are made in the United States involving more than 6 million children (a report can include multiple children)."
"In 2001, an estimated 368,245 persons were treated in U.S. emergency rooms for nonfatal dog bite-related injuries."
Of course, these stats don't come close to telling the whole story...
So what are you saying?Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Mutt from shelter only way to get a pooch. Fuck pure breeds.hedonist said:Good points, callen...and as to stopping breeding them, I say this goes for all. Might as well throw cats into that mix.
Neuter / spay your animals, people! Shelters and rescues are overflowing. I say once they're emptied, let the breeding begin again.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
I don't care for pure breeds either. Shelter isnt the only way to get a pooch eethically, my boys came from a bitch that was rescued pregnant and had a litter in their apartment.callen said:
Mutt from shelter only way to get a pooch. Fuck pure breeds.hedonist said:Good points, callen...and as to stopping breeding them, I say this goes for all. Might as well throw cats into that mix.
Neuter / spay your animals, people! Shelters and rescues are overflowing. I say once they're emptied, let the breeding begin again.
Even without pure breeds, dogs that look bullyish will still be unfairly maligned.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Agree.Adoption is the way to go.callen said:
Mutt from shelter only way to get a pooch. Fuck pure breeds.hedonist said:Good points, callen...and as to stopping breeding them, I say this goes for all. Might as well throw cats into that mix.
Neuter / spay your animals, people! Shelters and rescues are overflowing. I say once they're emptied, let the breeding begin again.
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I loved my stupid little spaniel when I was a kid and a teen........still love him to this day after all those years of him passing........but to be honest, the domestication of animals was a really stupid idea in the first place. "hey, let's see if we can train evolution and natural instinct out of this vicious animal! maybe eventualy he'll cuddle me".
our first dog was a beagle we had to give away after 10 days of owning him. he was a vicious fuck that had to be kept locked up so he wouldn't keep biting us and pissing everywhere. he was a nightmare.
it's not just the breed. it's the background, the training/non-training, personality of the owner, etc.
my sister owned a cat that I swear was the devil incarnate. it would lie under coffee tables and wait for you to walk by and SWIPE, fucking claw stuck in your foot. hated that piece of crap.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I of course believe in treating pit bulls as well as any other dog.... but I don't think it should be legal to breed them at all, and there should be a law that requires current owners to spay/neuter them. So yes, I support ending the breed, and thus the problem, which I definitely think exists. I don't fall for the argument that pit bulls are just as safe as any other dog at all. I know there haven't been a dozen attacks this year alone on people or other pets by goldendoodles . I can't say the same for pit bulls. Just in the past week I've read about 3 pit bull attacks in my area.
And while I do see the nature of the breed as a problem, I think that problem is hugely compounded by the people who want to own pit bulls. Aside from those involved in pit bull rescue, the grand majority of those who choose to own a pit bull are fucking loser skids who think that vicious dogs specifically are cool. I've had the misfortune of knowing people like that myself. If these idiots no longer have access to the vicious dog breeds, then that problem goes away.Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
For the record, I believe that there's an instinct in all dogs, an instinct way smarter than we humans can pick up on. I've seen more than one sweet, trusting and wonderful family dog bite a non-family member that came into the home. Dogs sense what we can't, they smell so much more than we can.
So I respect dogs. I know that there is no such thing as a truly tame dog.
That said, I do think pit bulls get a bad rap, but they certainly can be vicious. Regardless, NO dog is truly tame. And this law is used, I believe, by police so they can get into your house in MS without a warrant.0 -
Although I'm a big supporter of shelters, I don't entirely agree with this. We "rescued", if that's the right word, a 5 year old West Highland White terrier when her first owner died of cancer. She's a wonderful dog, a sweet, spunky little fluff ball. Mysteriously we got all the best terrier traits and almost none of the worst (she doesn't bark or destroy anything). And any rat that ventures into our property is toast.callen said:
Mutt from shelter only way to get a pooch. Fuck pure breeds.hedonist said:Good points, callen...and as to stopping breeding them, I say this goes for all. Might as well throw cats into that mix.
Neuter / spay your animals, people! Shelters and rescues are overflowing. I say once they're emptied, let the breeding begin again.
The problems that come with dogs stem almost entirely from people who have no idea what good dog ownership requires and won't put in the time and energy needed. Cesar Milan's idea that "a tired dog is a happy dog" is spot on (I'm not advocating Cesar in other respects!). Poor breeding and over breeding is also a problem. And, yes, getting a dog that was bred to have a high destructive potential is a real problem. Like others have said, any dog of any breed, or any mix, can bite under the right (or wrong) circumstances, but dogs in the "pit bull" group are likely to seriously injure or kill when they do. However, this proposal is so clearly likely to cause more problems than it solves that you can't help but question the real motives of those drafting it.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Good post there, oftenreading! Especially that last part.oftenreading said:Although I'm a big supporter of shelters, I don't entirely agree with this. We "rescued", if that's the right word, a 5 year old West Highland White terrier when her first owner died of cancer. She's a wonderful dog, a sweet, spunky little fluff ball. Mysteriously we got all the best terrier traits and almost none of the worst (she doesn't bark or destroy anything). And any rat that ventures into our property is toast.
The problems that come with dogs stem almost entirely from people who have no idea what good dog ownership requires and won't put in the time and energy needed. Cesar Milan's idea that "a tired dog is a happy dog" is spot on (I'm not advocating Cesar in other respects!). Poor breeding and over breeding is also a problem. And, yes, getting a dog that was bred to have a high destructive potential is a real problem. Like others have said, any dog of any breed, or any mix, can bite under the right (or wrong) circumstances, but dogs in the "pit bull" group are likely to seriously injure or kill when they do. However, this proposal is so clearly likely to cause more problems than it solves that you can't help but question the real motives of those drafting it.
I do place in the same class rescues such as the one you did - and kudos for that; many animals in similar situations end up being euthanized - it's about providing a home to an animal that needs it. I have a problem with those who breed either to sell or out of ignorance/negligence to neuter or spay.
It just increases an already huge population.
And, of course, those who have no knowledge of or business caring for an animal.
(and I'm curious, what aspects of Cesar do you not support?!)
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Thanks hedonist. I still feel a bit sheepish about claiming we "rescued" her because she is clearly such an exceptional doghedonist said:
Good post there, oftenreading! Especially that last part.oftenreading said:Although I'm a big supporter of shelters, I don't entirely agree with this. We "rescued", if that's the right word, a 5 year old West Highland White terrier when her first owner died of cancer. She's a wonderful dog, a sweet, spunky little fluff ball. Mysteriously we got all the best terrier traits and almost none of the worst (she doesn't bark or destroy anything). And any rat that ventures into our property is toast.
The problems that come with dogs stem almost entirely from people who have no idea what good dog ownership requires and won't put in the time and energy needed. Cesar Milan's idea that "a tired dog is a happy dog" is spot on (I'm not advocating Cesar in other respects!). Poor breeding and over breeding is also a problem. And, yes, getting a dog that was bred to have a high destructive potential is a real problem. Like others have said, any dog of any breed, or any mix, can bite under the right (or wrong) circumstances, but dogs in the "pit bull" group are likely to seriously injure or kill when they do. However, this proposal is so clearly likely to cause more problems than it solves that you can't help but question the real motives of those drafting it.
I do place in the same class rescues such as the one you did - and kudos for that; many animals in similar situations end up being euthanized - it's about providing a home to an animal that needs it. I have a problem with those who breed either to sell or out of ignorance/negligence to neuter or spay.
It just increases an already huge population.
And, of course, those who have no knowledge of or business caring for an animal.
(and I'm curious, what aspects of Cesar do you not support?!)that there were a couple of other people who wanted her, too.... but we won!
As for Cesar, I've read a couple of his books but have never watched his show. I've heard that he has been filmed being physically harsh with some of the larger, more powerful dogs while "establishing dominance" or some such thing. I have no idea if that's true or not, but I know some people kick up a fuss if you mention his name. Personally, I found the books helpful when we first got our dog.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.Last-12-Exit said:It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.
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As much as the dog issue is important, I think of your last sentence as being the bottom line for this particular story, bsL. The article in the link here:backseatLover12 said:For the record, I believe that there's an instinct in all dogs, an instinct way smarter than we humans can pick up on. I've seen more than one sweet, trusting and wonderful family dog bite a non-family member that came into the home. Dogs sense what we can't, they smell so much more than we can.
So I respect dogs. I know that there is no such thing as a truly tame dog.
That said, I do think pit bulls get a bad rap, but they certainly can be vicious. Regardless, NO dog is truly tame. And this law is used, I believe, by police so they can get into your house in MS without a warrant.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/26/mississippi-pit-bull-bill_n_6543414.html
makes these points:
"H.B. 1261 raises a slew of concerns on its own, especially the issue of warrantless searches and seizures. "
"This bill effectively removes any protections people have from unreasonable search and seizure, and opens the door to using a dangerous dog claim as a way to scrutinize people for things they couldn’t otherwise get a warrant for."
But the update includes this:
"UPDATE, January 27, 2015, 6:03 p.m.: Andy Gipson, chair of the Mississippi House of Representatives' Judiciary B committee, announced on Tuesday that due to the overwhelmingly negative response to the bill, and the lack of time to fix its flaws, H.B. 1261 will be killed in committee."
Still, you have to wonder about the impetus behind the idea for the bill in the first place.
Post edited by brianlux on"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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