Pit bull lover? Don't live in Mississippi

rgambs

oftenreading said:

hedonist said:

oftenreading said:

Although I'm a big supporter of shelters, I don't entirely agree with this. We "rescued", if that's the right word, a 5 year old West Highland White terrier when her first owner died of cancer. She's a wonderful dog, a sweet, spunky little fluff ball. Mysteriously we got all the best terrier traits and almost none of the worst (she doesn't bark or destroy anything). And any rat that ventures into our property is toast.

The problems that come with dogs stem almost entirely from people who have no idea what good dog ownership requires and won't put in the time and energy needed. Cesar Milan's idea that "a tired dog is a happy dog" is spot on (I'm not advocating Cesar in other respects!). Poor breeding and over breeding is also a problem. And, yes, getting a dog that was bred to have a high destructive potential is a real problem. Like others have said, any dog of any breed, or any mix, can bite under the right (or wrong) circumstances, but dogs in the "pit bull" group are likely to seriously injure or kill when they do. However, this proposal is so clearly likely to cause more problems than it solves that you can't help but question the real motives of those drafting it.

Good post there, oftenreading! Especially that last part.

I do place in the same class rescues such as the one you did - and kudos for that; many animals in similar situations end up being euthanized - it's about providing a home to an animal that needs it. I have a problem with those who breed either to sell or out of ignorance/negligence to neuter or spay.

It just increases an already huge population.

And, of course, those who have no knowledge of or business caring for an animal.

(and I'm curious, what aspects of Cesar do you not support?!)

Thanks hedonist. I still feel a bit sheepish about claiming we "rescued" her because she is clearly such an exceptional dog that there were a couple of other people who wanted her, too.... but we won!

As for Cesar, I've read a couple of his books but have never watched his show. I've heard that he has been filmed being physically harsh with some of the larger, more powerful dogs while "establishing dominance" or some such thing. I have no idea if that's true or not, but I know some people kick up a fuss if you mention his name. Personally, I found the books helpful when we first got our dog.

He does pin the dogs down when they are getting out of control... He doesn't hurt the dogs and the whole "violence is never the answer" thing doesn't hold up when dealing with a species which has strict dominance protocols. He certainly gets positive results from it, that much is beyond debate.

hedonist

oftenreading said:

Thanks hedonist. I still feel a bit sheepish about claiming we "rescued" her because she is clearly such an exceptional dog that there were a couple of other people who wanted her, too.... but we won!

As for Cesar, I've read a couple of his books but have never watched his show. I've heard that he has been filmed being physically harsh with some of the larger, more powerful dogs while "establishing dominance" or some such thing. I have no idea if that's true or not, but I know some people kick up a fuss if you mention his name. Personally, I found the books helpful when we first got our dog.

When it's a good match, it's a good match! I bet she's living the life of Riley with your family.

And I bet you'd dig Cesar if you checked out his show. He just gets dogs, their mindset, as well as the energy between them and "their people". Worth your searching out an episode or two.

And Mr. Smellyman!

rgambs

hedonist said:

oftenreading said:

Thanks hedonist. I still feel a bit sheepish about claiming we "rescued" her because she is clearly such an exceptional dog that there were a couple of other people who wanted her, too.... but we won!

As for Cesar, I've read a couple of his books but have never watched his show. I've heard that he has been filmed being physically harsh with some of the larger, more powerful dogs while "establishing dominance" or some such thing. I have no idea if that's true or not, but I know some people kick up a fuss if you mention his name. Personally, I found the books helpful when we first got our dog.

When it's a good match, it's a good match! I bet she's living the life of Riley with your family.

And I bet you'd dig Cesar if you checked out his show. He just gets dogs, their mindset, as well as the energy between them and "their people". Worth your searching out an episode or two.

And Mr. Smellyman!

He does get dogs. He communicates with them in ways most people can't. It can be very informative but his techniques are like Santa Clause...you have to believe lol

Last-12-Exit

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

oftenreading

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

Interesting. This is obviously quite a different approach than a law that apparently allows searches of homes and destruction of animals. I don't disagree at all with the requirement to have these dogs muzzled and leashed. I do, however, think that the conclusions drawn in the article are not completely warranted, since if you click on the "remarkable drop in pit bull bits" link, the graph shows the bites per year dropping dramatically year on year between 2001 and 2004, before the restrictions were put in place. Apparently dog bites from other breeds are down, too, in recent years. There may be some confounders there.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

It's not that I disagree with your logic, it's just that basically wishing death on one particular breed of dog because you don't like them is just cruel.

You use such dramatic language in maligning these dogs. "Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature." lol You are like a tabloid headline sometimes.
I am not arguing that dogs have no potential for danger. You are painting pits with a brush that is more suited to describing dogs in general than one specific breed. What breeds does the Ontario ban specify? There are at least 3 breeds that are considered pitbull by the lay person, and what about mutts?
If pitbulls were not bred anymore that would be fine by me, but death for loving creatures that have done no wrong? That's a step too far.

callen

rgambs said:

oftenreading said:

hedonist said:

oftenreading said:

Although I'm a big supporter of shelters, I don't entirely agree with this. We "rescued", if that's the right word, a 5 year old West Highland White terrier when her first owner died of cancer. She's a wonderful dog, a sweet, spunky little fluff ball. Mysteriously we got all the best terrier traits and almost none of the worst (she doesn't bark or destroy anything). And any rat that ventures into our property is toast.

The problems that come with dogs stem almost entirely from people who have no idea what good dog ownership requires and won't put in the time and energy needed. Cesar Milan's idea that "a tired dog is a happy dog" is spot on (I'm not advocating Cesar in other respects!). Poor breeding and over breeding is also a problem. And, yes, getting a dog that was bred to have a high destructive potential is a real problem. Like others have said, any dog of any breed, or any mix, can bite under the right (or wrong) circumstances, but dogs in the "pit bull" group are likely to seriously injure or kill when they do. However, this proposal is so clearly likely to cause more problems than it solves that you can't help but question the real motives of those drafting it.

Good post there, oftenreading! Especially that last part.

I do place in the same class rescues such as the one you did - and kudos for that; many animals in similar situations end up being euthanized - it's about providing a home to an animal that needs it. I have a problem with those who breed either to sell or out of ignorance/negligence to neuter or spay.

It just increases an already huge population.

And, of course, those who have no knowledge of or business caring for an animal.

(and I'm curious, what aspects of Cesar do you not support?!)

Thanks hedonist. I still feel a bit sheepish about claiming we "rescued" her because she is clearly such an exceptional dog that there were a couple of other people who wanted her, too.... but we won!

As for Cesar, I've read a couple of his books but have never watched his show. I've heard that he has been filmed being physically harsh with some of the larger, more powerful dogs while "establishing dominance" or some such thing. I have no idea if that's true or not, but I know some people kick up a fuss if you mention his name. Personally, I found the books helpful when we first got our dog.

He does pin the dogs down when they are getting out of control... He doesn't hurt the dogs and the whole "violence is never the answer" thing doesn't hold up when dealing with a species which has strict dominance protocols. He certainly gets positive results from it, that much is beyond debate.

Dogs need to know their hierarchy as part of pack structure and putting them in submissive position is key in dog human relationship. Watched few episodes and Caesar never abused a dog.

oftenreading

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

It's not that I disagree with your logic, it's just that basically wishing death on one particular breed of dog because you don't like them is just cruel.

You use such dramatic language in maligning these dogs. "Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature." lol You are like a tabloid headline sometimes.
I am not arguing that dogs have no potential for danger. You are painting pits with a brush that is more suited to describing dogs in general than one specific breed. What breeds does the Ontario ban specify? There are at least 3 breeds that are considered pitbull by the lay person, and what about mutts?
If pitbulls were not bred anymore that would be fine by me, but death for loving creatures that have done no wrong? That's a step too far.

Rgambs - the article TBU posted the link to, and another article that it links to, explain in a fair amount of details which breeds are included, as well as how they determine if a mixed breed is close enough to a "pit bull" to be considered in the ban. The article reports: "The law banning the dogs applies to four breed types — pit bull terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers, and American pit bull terriers (the breeds included in the Star’s tally) — as well as any dog that has “an appearance and physical characteristics substantially similar” to those four.", and goes on to talk about the physical parameters, if you are interested.

rgambs

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

It's not that I disagree with your logic, it's just that basically wishing death on one particular breed of dog because you don't like them is just cruel.

You use such dramatic language in maligning these dogs. "Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature." lol You are like a tabloid headline sometimes.
I am not arguing that dogs have no potential for danger. You are painting pits with a brush that is more suited to describing dogs in general than one specific breed. What breeds does the Ontario ban specify? There are at least 3 breeds that are considered pitbull by the lay person, and what about mutts?
If pitbulls were not bred anymore that would be fine by me, but death for loving creatures that have done no wrong? That's a step too far.

Rgambs - the article TBU posted the link to, and another article that it links to, explain in a fair amount of details which breeds are included, as well as how they determine if a mixed breed is close enough to a "pit bull" to be considered in the ban. The article reports: "The law banning the dogs applies to four breed types — pit bull terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers, and American pit bull terriers (the breeds included in the Star’s tally) — as well as any dog that has “an appearance and physical characteristics substantially similar” to those four.", and goes on to talk about the physical parameters, if you are interested.

My bad for lacking due diligence! I will check that out

goingtoverona

I have a serious question for you breed specific haters. is it ok to use that same logic with people or is it just animals? last2exit, can you empathize with me if I said all black people are bad and should be banned or deported because a couple black guys attacked me when I was young. can you empathize with me if I said all Mexicans are drug cartel henchman because I saw Mexicans arrested for drugs in my local paper so we need to deport them all? if not, can someone explain to me why it's ok to judge an entire group of animals on the actions of a small fraction, but we can't do that with people. it really blows my mind that people can say, hey look, I don't care that literally millions of these dogs are living normal lives, I don't care about that, some microscopic fraction of those dogs will attack people so lets contaminate the whole lot. that is just so hard to fathom.

HughFreakingDillon

goingtoverona said:

I have a serious question for you breed specific haters. is it ok to use that same logic with people or is it just animals? last2exit, can you empathize with me if I said all black people are bad and should be banned or deported because a couple black guys attacked me when I was young. can you empathize with me if I said all Mexicans are drug cartel henchman because I saw Mexicans arrested for drugs in my local paper so we need to deport them all? if not, can someone explain to me why it's ok to judge an entire group of animals on the actions of a small fraction, but we can't do that with people. it really blows my mind that people can say, hey look, I don't care that literally millions of these dogs are living normal lives, I don't care about that, some microscopic fraction of those dogs will attack people so lets contaminate the whole lot. that is just so hard to fathom.

certain breeds of animals are inherently vicious. pitbulls are one of them. some do no harm. others do lots of it. sometimes it can depend on many factors. sometimes it depends on the fact that it was merely 12:03 in the afternoon and the sun shone in its eyes the wrong way so it decided to tear off a kid's nose.

humans were once just as vicious. it's evolution, baby.

you cannot compare animals to humans in any way, shape or form. sorry.

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

goingtoverona said:

I have a serious question for you breed specific haters. is it ok to use that same logic with people or is it just animals? last2exit, can you empathize with me if I said all black people are bad and should be banned or deported because a couple black guys attacked me when I was young. can you empathize with me if I said all Mexicans are drug cartel henchman because I saw Mexicans arrested for drugs in my local paper so we need to deport them all? if not, can someone explain to me why it's ok to judge an entire group of animals on the actions of a small fraction, but we can't do that with people. it really blows my mind that people can say, hey look, I don't care that literally millions of these dogs are living normal lives, I don't care about that, some microscopic fraction of those dogs will attack people so lets contaminate the whole lot. that is just so hard to fathom.

certain breeds of animals are inherently vicious. pitbulls are one of them. some do no harm. others do lots of it. sometimes it can depend on many factors. sometimes it depends on the fact that it was merely 12:03 in the afternoon and the sun shone in its eyes the wrong way so it decided to tear off a kid's nose.

humans were once just as vicious. it's evolution, baby.

you cannot compare animals to humans in any way, shape or form. sorry.

First of all, humans are animals. Fact.
The entirety of this post is highly debatable if not just bunk. That pitulls are "vicious" is not a factual truth, as you present it to be, it is just an emotional opinion. That humans are less "vicious" than they used to be is highly debatable as well. There are serious atrocities committed daily by humans that are FAR FAR beyond what any dog has done. Is that relevant? Not really, but it's true.

oftenreading

goingtoverona said:

I have a serious question for you breed specific haters. is it ok to use that same logic with people or is it just animals? last2exit, can you empathize with me if I said all black people are bad and should be banned or deported because a couple black guys attacked me when I was young. can you empathize with me if I said all Mexicans are drug cartel henchman because I saw Mexicans arrested for drugs in my local paper so we need to deport them all? if not, can someone explain to me why it's ok to judge an entire group of animals on the actions of a small fraction, but we can't do that with people. it really blows my mind that people can say, hey look, I don't care that literally millions of these dogs are living normal lives, I don't care about that, some microscopic fraction of those dogs will attack people so lets contaminate the whole lot. that is just so hard to fathom.

I have a certain sympathy for your point of view but I don't agree that we can equate humans to dogs. Unfortunately, humans have selectively bred this group of dogs to have a higher potential for violence, both in terms of their proclivity to attack and the amount of damage they can inflict. That's not the dogs' fault by any means but nonetheless it needs to be addressed. I don't agree with euthanizing all "pit bulls" but do agree with some of the other measures such as muzzling, in recognition of these facts.

rgambs

I don't really oppose pitbull bans inside municipal limits, hell, you don't rreally fully own your property anyways. It is not a city dog. I do have a problem with pitbulls being singled out specifically. Rottweilers, Dobermans, Dalmations, Huskies, German Shepherds, Akitas, none of these should live in human anthills for their own good, and the good of the people who live there. I also don't think hunting dogs like Springer Spaniels, Labs, Beagles and the like should be forced to live in crowded cities, but that's for the dogs sake.

I think any bans should include ALL breeds known to reach an excess of 35lbs.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

It's not that I disagree with your logic, it's just that basically wishing death on one particular breed of dog because you don't like them is just cruel.

You use such dramatic language in maligning these dogs. "Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature." lol You are like a tabloid headline sometimes.
I am not arguing that dogs have no potential for danger. You are painting pits with a brush that is more suited to describing dogs in general than one specific breed. What breeds does the Ontario ban specify? There are at least 3 breeds that are considered pitbull by the lay person, and what about mutts?
If pitbulls were not bred anymore that would be fine by me, but death for loving creatures that have done no wrong? That's a step too far.

I haven't said I wish death on these dogs. I have said a ban would make our streets safer. As any ban, there is a transition phase that would treat existing animals and owners with a degree of respect.

Sometimes we treat simple terms like 'biting' as footnotes. Every one of those bites are traumatic for the person getting bit and I guess I like to emphasize my feelings on some issues in a less benign manner.

I have come by my strong feelings opposing dangerous dog breeds honestly. My children have not fared well with other people's animals. My son was brutally attacked in an episode that had the entire neighborhood out of their homes followed by a trip to the hospital (German Shepherd). My wife was attacked- by a Cocker Spaniel no less- on her mail route requiring stitches behind her knee.

So... I have no more patience for stupid people with their stupid pets.

And yes, I am not calling for a ban on Cocker Spaniels. I'm not necessarily a fan, however their capacity is what we experienced: I don't think they are capable of injuring so severely to the point of even killing someone such as pitbulls are. Is there a reported Cocker Spaniel killing on record?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

I don't really oppose pitbull bans inside municipal limits, hell, you don't rreally fully own your property anyways. It is not a city dog. I do have a problem with pitbulls being singled out specifically. Rottweilers, Dobermans, Dalmations, Huskies, German Shepherds, Akitas, none of these should live in human anthills for their own good, and the good of the people who live there. I also don't think hunting dogs like Springer Spaniels, Labs, Beagles and the like should be forced to live in crowded cities, but that's for the dogs sake.

I think any bans should include ALL breeds known to reach an excess of 35lbs.

You are on to something here.

You're previous post, sorry to say, has not been your finest. Pitbulls are vicious and temperamental. Of course there are some gentle ones- there are tigers that have become friendly with chimpanzees in the zoo as well- but the breed is marred with brutal violence towards humans and other people's pets as well. Claiming otherwise is foolish.

Your claim parallels the following very closely: a gun is an inanimate object and no more dangerous than a soup spoon.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

It's not that I disagree with your logic, it's just that basically wishing death on one particular breed of dog because you don't like them is just cruel.

You use such dramatic language in maligning these dogs. "Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature." lol You are like a tabloid headline sometimes.
I am not arguing that dogs have no potential for danger. You are painting pits with a brush that is more suited to describing dogs in general than one specific breed. What breeds does the Ontario ban specify? There are at least 3 breeds that are considered pitbull by the lay person, and what about mutts?
If pitbulls were not bred anymore that would be fine by me, but death for loving creatures that have done no wrong? That's a step too far.

I haven't said I wish death on these dogs. I have said a ban would make our streets safer. As any ban, there is a transition phase that would treat existing animals and owners with a degree of respect.

Sometimes we treat simple terms like 'biting' as footnotes. Every one of those bites are traumatic for the person getting bit and I guess I like to emphasize my feelings on some issues in a less benign manner.

I have come by my strong feelings opposing dangerous dog breeds honestly. My children have not fared well with other people's animals. My son was brutally attacked in an episode that had the entire neighborhood out of their homes followed by a trip to the hospital (German Shepherd). My wife was attacked- by a Cocker Spaniel no less- on her mail route requiring stitches behind her knee.

So... I have no more patience for stupid people with their stupid pets.

And yes, I am not calling for a ban on Cocker Spaniels. I'm not necessarily a fan, however their capacity is what we experienced: I don't think they are capable of injuring so severely to the point of even killing someone such as pitbulls are. Is there a reported Cocker Spaniel killing on record?

Cocker Spaniels are bity fuckers!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Smellyman said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every pit bull on the planet would die.

It wouldn't bother me one iota if every one of their bad owners on the planet would die.

Odd sentiment.

Odd like saying it wouldn't bother you if many thousands of wonderful, loving creatures would die and leave their families heartbroken.

The many 1000s of people that have been maimed by those wonderful, loving creatures wouldn't be heartbroken.

Timothy Treadwell tried to convince everyone that grizzly bears were gentle creatures before he was eaten by one. Pitbull owners do the same thing- tell everyone their dog is just wonderful... until it bites someone or attacks someone's dog minding its own business. "I don't know what got into her?" says the tool. Hmmm. Try aggressive animal instincts that are triggered through a variety of stimuli and environmental conditions.

Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature. Too many don't though with disastrous results and this is where advocating for pitbulls loses ground- big time. It is foolish to sit and try to tell people that pitbulls pose no risk to people as long as owners are awesome for two reasons:
1. We will never be able to ensure pitbulls receive the owners they need. Quite frankly... unrealistic.
2. Even if we did find every pitbull the responsibility they require... that would not pacify them to the degree people think it might: being highly territorial and highly protective are two qualities that lead to aggression.

Ontario has a pitbull laws that mandate conditions for owning one. In 2004, 984 registered pitbulls recorded 168 bites in Toronto prompting rigid laws that pitbull lovers deem oppressive. Whatever they think, in 2014, Toronto experienced 13. 138 fewer trips to emergency for human beings- say nothing of the attacks on other people's pets.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opinion/editorials/2014/10/06/ontarios_pit_bull_ban_is_working_and_mustnt_be_repealed_editorial.html?referrer=https://www.google.ca/

It's not that I disagree with your logic, it's just that basically wishing death on one particular breed of dog because you don't like them is just cruel.

You use such dramatic language in maligning these dogs. "Some pitbulls live a long life without ripping their teeth into another creature." lol You are like a tabloid headline sometimes.
I am not arguing that dogs have no potential for danger. You are painting pits with a brush that is more suited to describing dogs in general than one specific breed. What breeds does the Ontario ban specify? There are at least 3 breeds that are considered pitbull by the lay person, and what about mutts?
If pitbulls were not bred anymore that would be fine by me, but death for loving creatures that have done no wrong? That's a step too far.

I haven't said I wish death on these dogs. I have said a ban would make our streets safer. As any ban, there is a transition phase that would treat existing animals and owners with a degree of respect.

Sometimes we treat simple terms like 'biting' as footnotes. Every one of those bites are traumatic for the person getting bit and I guess I like to emphasize my feelings on some issues in a less benign manner.

I have come by my strong feelings opposing dangerous dog breeds honestly. My children have not fared well with other people's animals. My son was brutally attacked in an episode that had the entire neighborhood out of their homes followed by a trip to the hospital (German Shepherd). My wife was attacked- by a Cocker Spaniel no less- on her mail route requiring stitches behind her knee.

So... I have no more patience for stupid people with their stupid pets.

And yes, I am not calling for a ban on Cocker Spaniels. I'm not necessarily a fan, however their capacity is what we experienced: I don't think they are capable of injuring so severely to the point of even killing someone such as pitbulls are. Is there a reported Cocker Spaniel killing on record?

Cocker Spaniels are bity fuckers!

Little assholes. No wonder Hugh gets so snarky sometimes.