Latest Keystone XL news.

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  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    callen wrote: »
    Oil sands obliterates the area they are mining. Strip mining. Yes land is replanted and oil companies put great effort to restore but imagine the plants and animals that are sacrificed. Is it worth it?

    No.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    It's not just about the oilsands and pipeline anyways. It's about standing up to big oil. Th ey ram ahead with plans knowing they will bully the government and for once the government is pushing back. Honestly, I would much rather see this fight taking place over MTR projects. They are devastating to a much lusher ecosystem, they are nasty dirty, and they are homegrown within the heart of our country. Alas, XL Pipeline instead... I support any effort to stand up to big energy companies, even the misguided ones.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    Fair point gambs.
    Economically the oil companies need the heavy oil from the oilsands because the fracking oil from Dakota is a light crude. The refineries need to blend it to get a product they want.

    But strip mining isn't all bad. Look up "Cardinal Lake" near Hinton, Alberta. Just look at the photos.
    That is a man made lake from an old open pit coal mine.

    I've gone fishing there, it is beautiful. The animals love it, they love it

    Is it worth it? Sure there is some environmental impact, but so is the town or city you are living in. At one time animals and flowers and plants grew where your paved street and house sits. This is really a moot point on whether Mining is ethical or not. Animals adapt, plants grow.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    MTR sites are pretty bad. The water that flows off of them is laden with heavy metals and nasty stuff. There are no trees, only scrubby grass grows. Beautiful mountaintops turned to flat empty moonscapes. So sad. Damn those butterflies lol we need to lay off the oil and hydro done right needs to be done.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    1T, I appreciate that you seem to have an interest in nature and that much of what you say is sincere in you belief that a strong economy relies on oil production.

    That said, I keep going back to Beavan's words lately,

    What began to worry me was that I and the political system I participated in ... never exerted much energy toward anything but winning the argument. Too rarely taking any real action.

    so if I don't continue the argument, it's not meant to be out of disrespect. I get it that we all use oil and that their is some hypocrisy in that for me. I just more greatly feel the need to avoid my own hypocrisy by spending less time in a circular argument and more time doing something about what I see as a serious problem.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    You bet man, and I appreciate that. Instead of pointing the finger you are looking at yourself and saying what can I do? That is the most important thing because if we are all busy pointing fingers, no one is looking at themselves as part of the problem!
    If you put something in a public forum, there is always the possibility someone may have a slightly different opinion, or can shed additional light on the subject. Quite frankly, it is rather surprising this is getting so much airplay, but pipelines are the soup du jour for the environmentalist movement at this time.
    And with that, I am going to drive to the airport tomorrow morning, and get in a jet a fly to Puerto Vallarta and kike into the San Madres and explore the coastline and fishing villages all around that area.
    I am not sure if this trip is carbon neutral, and it probably isn't, but considering Canada contributes 1.48% of the world's carbon and Mexico 1.32%, I believe I am entitled to this trip as the US contributes 16.16% of the world's carbon emissions.
    Consider my trip a carbon trade.. And I will keep taking them until we are even :)
    David Suzuki would be so proud of me, the world's #1 environmental hypocrite haha


  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    1ThoughtKnown wrote: »
    You bet man, and I appreciate that. Instead of pointing the finger you are looking at yourself and saying what can I do? That is the most important thing because if we are all busy pointing fingers, no one is looking at themselves as part of the problem!
    If you put something in a public forum, there is always the possibility someone may have a slightly different opinion, or can shed additional light on the subject. Quite frankly, it is rather surprising this is getting so much airplay, but pipelines are the soup du jour for the environmentalist movement at this time.
    And with that, I am going to drive to the airport tomorrow morning, and get in a jet a fly to Puerto Vallarta and kike into the San Madres and explore the coastline and fishing villages all around that area.
    I am not sure if this trip is carbon neutral, and it probably isn't, but considering Canada contributes 1.48% of the world's carbon and Mexico 1.32%, I believe I am entitled to this trip as the US contributes 16.16% of the world's carbon emissions.
    Consider my trip a carbon trade.. And I will keep taking them until we are even :)
    David Suzuki would be so proud of me, the world's #1 environmental hypocrite haha


    Hey man, I disagree about Suzuki but safe travels, enjoy the warmth down their and for cryin' out loud, have a good time! :-D

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    "Man Has Slapped Nature in the Face": Pope Francis Urges Climate Action in Philippines Visit
    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/16/man_has_slapped_nature_in_the
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    "Man Has Slapped Nature in the Face": Pope Francis Urges Climate Action in Philippines Visit
    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/16/man_has_slapped_nature_in_the

    It's truly encouraging to see that, for the most part, people are recognizing the reality of global warming and accepting that we humans are primarily responsible for that climate change. The question is, will we act, will we act quickly enough and will be act strongly enough?

    I guess that's three questions, haha!

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    "Man Has Slapped Nature in the Face": Pope Francis Urges Climate Action in Philippines Visit
    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/16/man_has_slapped_nature_in_the

    Doesn't make sense that god would create us to eventually cause global warming. But hey, he is god and the pope is representative of him. I'm confused, are we supposed to warm the globe or not?
  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/11/the-two-suzukis-theres-saint-suzuki-the-one-you-see-on-cbc-and-secret-suzuki-the-capitalist-millionaire


    Suzuki.. The hypocrite.
  • oceaninmyeyes
    oceaninmyeyes Posts: 4,646
    edited January 2015
    All pipelines leak. Not if but when . . . .
    cnn.com/2015/01/20/us/yellowstone-river-spill/
    And this time, not just 50,400 gallons of oil, benzene as a bonus
    billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_c39e74b3-08ec-5fce-8d18-4085c5c03ed2.html
    Post edited by oceaninmyeyes on
    And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    oceaninmyeyes wrote: »
    All pipelines leak. Not if but when . . . .
    cnn.com/2015/01/20/us/yellowstone-river-spill/
    And this time, not just 50,400 gallons of oil, benzene as a bonus
    billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_c39e74b3-08ec-5fce-8d18-4085c5c03ed2.html

    Oh man, really bummed to hear about this knowing how badly this kind of thing can harm an ecosystem.

    These articles are excellent illustrations as to why it is important to cut our oil consumption (number one priority) and, as well, to work hard to create safer, cleaner sources of energy. And wherever and whenever possible, keep that energy localized. Any good, basic study of renewable energy will talk about the importance of localizing energy sources. Moving this toxic shit hundred and thousands of miles through a pipe is just not a wise move.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    brianlux wrote: »
    oceaninmyeyes wrote: »
    All pipelines leak. Not if but when . . . .
    cnn.com/2015/01/20/us/yellowstone-river-spill/
    And this time, not just 50,400 gallons of oil, benzene as a bonus
    billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_c39e74b3-08ec-5fce-8d18-4085c5c03ed2.html

    Oh man, really bummed to hear about this knowing how badly this kind of thing can harm an ecosystem.

    These articles are excellent illustrations as to why it is important to cut our oil consumption (number one priority) and, as well, to work hard to create safer, cleaner sources of energy. And wherever and whenever possible, keep that energy localized. Any good, basic study of renewable energy will talk about the importance of localizing energy sources. Moving this toxic shit hundred and thousands of miles through a pipe is just not a wise move.

    So what would be your best solution?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    PJfanwillneverleave1 wrote: »
    brianlux wrote: »
    oceaninmyeyes wrote: »
    All pipelines leak. Not if but when . . . .
    cnn.com/2015/01/20/us/yellowstone-river-spill/
    And this time, not just 50,400 gallons of oil, benzene as a bonus
    billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_c39e74b3-08ec-5fce-8d18-4085c5c03ed2.html

    Oh man, really bummed to hear about this knowing how badly this kind of thing can harm an ecosystem.

    These articles are excellent illustrations as to why it is important to cut our oil consumption (number one priority) and, as well, to work hard to create safer, cleaner sources of energy. And wherever and whenever possible, keep that energy localized. Any good, basic study of renewable energy will talk about the importance of localizing energy sources. Moving this toxic shit hundred and thousands of miles through a pipe is just not a wise move.

    So what would be your best solution?

    Several, PJFan:

    Conserve. I wish I could say I were like Colin Beavan in his book No Impact Man. Beavan and his small family spent a year while living in NYC attempting to have as close to zero affect on the environment. This included having no trash, using no motorized vehicles (including elevators- his record for one day that year wash climbing 127 floors worth of stairs in order to go about his business), washable diapers for his baby, sustainable eating, etc. His point isn't that we should or can all do this, but he teaches us a lot about what we CAN do without. I work at this on a daily basis and make daily decisions with this question in mind: how can I get by on less? This covers a huge amount of the "what can we do to make a difference" question.

    Eat locally: Non-local foods require far more energy than local fair.

    Drive less/Ride share/ use public transportation. Walk or ride a horse, a bike or a Xootr Scooter.

    Other ideas?



    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited January 2015
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-votes-98-1-climate-change-not-hoax-n290831

    Post edited by backseatLover12 on
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-votes-98-1-climate-change-not-hoax-n290831

    This:

    Senate Votes 98-1 That Climate Change 'Is Not A Hoax'

    thankfully, is not very surprising anymore and this:

    But a majority of the Senate, including 15 Republicans, are also on record stating that human activity contributes to climate change.

    does seem a bit surprising.

    It's a little ray of hope but we shall see. Even the dems are split on the pipeline issue. It seems to be easier for our elected official to admit there is a problem and quite another thing for them to actually do something about it. I hope they surprise us on that too.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    There are risks to all transportation of oil. Currently oil sands oil is transported by pipe then by ship. So would think pipeline is safest and definitely most cost affective.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    Pipeline - safe?
    Let's look at what happened in Montana recently.
    Last weekend, a burst pipeline in Montana sent more than 50,000 gallons of oil into the Yellowstone River. This week, high levels of benzene – an agent that can cause cancer – were found in a nearby public water system. The CDC said that drinking the water just a few times probably wouldn’t hurt anyone, but long-term consumption would be a problem. Not comforting, especially since it apparently smells like diesel. Yum. About 6,000 people have been told not to drink their tap water.
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Most Canadians feel energy infrastructure needs trump environment: poll

    Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/most-canadians-feel-energy-infrastructure-needs-trump-environment-poll-1.2196190#ixzz3PZIdGYR1
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon

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