There is no god

brianlux said:

I just thought of something I hadn't considered for quite some time. While writing my new book about my experiences with music and musicians, I was jotting down notes for a section about seeing the Violent Femmes at a punk club in San Jose in the 80's. That was a wild night. The band came on very late and the crowd was borderline viscous. Once the band started up, everyone was having a great time until half way through the show singer/guitarist Gordon Gano announced he wanted to slow things down for just a few minutes and he went into a folk-style hymn that was simply wonderful. I loved their punk stuff but this was equally great- one of my favorite numbers that night. Gano was rewarded for his efforts by a lot of verbal abuse and booing. What a bunch of losers these punks were, I thought. As it turns out, Gano is a devout Christian and bassist Brian Ritchie and drummer Victor DeLorenzo are both atheists and yet these guys were able to accept their differing opinions and create some great music. Not a bad example there. Something to ponder.

A very good example. I have close friends that have differing opinions on this topic, yet we remain friends. We accept each others differences. We do not pressure each other. I agree these are personal matters, and other then here, I keep it that way. But maybe that's because there is a familiarity here in the forum. On a side note, I believe there is a difference in opinions on this topic within the band we all love, and they also are able to co-exist quite well. Another good example.

badbrains said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

badbrains said:

PJ_Soul said:

chadwick said:

who says god is only purely fantastic, pleasant, cheerful & only is for goodness? norse dick!
god would be a nasty nasty energy just as equally surrounded by angels w/ harps playing in a waterfall pool sitting on rocks eating grapes or a tornado or whatever

what humans (if we can call them humans) do alot of the time is evil. freewill isn't it?

we've all heard the saying - "can't have good without bad" or however it is stated
god & satan are one (hell aint on fire underground, heaven aint on clouds)
get used to it

The First Testament depicts God as a complete prick. Allah doesn't come off so cheery in the Koran either. The idea that he's only kind and loving is pretty new age, actually.

Curious as to your views on Judaism? I've seen you rip apart Islam and Christianity, is Judaism off the table when it comes to ripping on religion. I could be wrong but I haven't seen anything written from you on Judaism. Just curious, are u afraid of being labeled an anti-Semite or something? Maybe I'm wrong and you have ripped it apart?

Sorry, not my place to jump in here, but the old testament IS Judaism.

Exactly.

Ah, I honestly could be wrong but you did say "new" which I take as christ? I could be wrong, and wouldn't be surprised. Is there a diff between new and old?

Edit- don't want to mis-quote you now )

Lol!

Pretty sure I said Old Testament, since that's the one in which God is a bigger asshole. I wouldn't have said New Testament in that context, because God doesn't come off nearly as bad in that one. Edit: actually it says right there - I said "first testament"... by which I meant Old. In retrospect it was a weird term to use, but I think still clear in what I meant.

PJ_Soul said:

badbrains said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

badbrains said:

PJ_Soul said:

chadwick said:

who says god is only purely fantastic, pleasant, cheerful & only is for goodness? norse dick!
god would be a nasty nasty energy just as equally surrounded by angels w/ harps playing in a waterfall pool sitting on rocks eating grapes or a tornado or whatever

what humans (if we can call them humans) do alot of the time is evil. freewill isn't it?

we've all heard the saying - "can't have good without bad" or however it is stated
god & satan are one (hell aint on fire underground, heaven aint on clouds)
get used to it

The First Testament depicts God as a complete prick. Allah doesn't come off so cheery in the Koran either. The idea that he's only kind and loving is pretty new age, actually.

Curious as to your views on Judaism? I've seen you rip apart Islam and Christianity, is Judaism off the table when it comes to ripping on religion. I could be wrong but I haven't seen anything written from you on Judaism. Just curious, are u afraid of being labeled an anti-Semite or something? Maybe I'm wrong and you have ripped it apart?

Sorry, not my place to jump in here, but the old testament IS Judaism.

Exactly.

Ah, I honestly could be wrong but you did say "new" which I take as christ? I could be wrong, and wouldn't be surprised. Is there a diff between new and old?

Edit- don't want to mis-quote you now )

Lol!

Pretty sure I said Old Testament, since that's the one in which God is a bigger asshole. I wouldn't have said New Testament in that context, because God doesn't come off nearly as bad in that one. Edit: actually it says right there - I said "first testament"... by which I meant Old. In retrospect it was a weird term to use, but I think still clear in what I meant.

It is true that God was a bigger asshole in the old testament. In the last (and lost) book of the O.T., Eratacus, God discovered the 12 step system, gave Him/Herself up to a Higher Power and changed His/Her ways which led to the New Testament.

Oftenreading, I'm anxiously awaiting the long-overdue printing to that last part of the Bible Trilogy. Should make for same Awesome Reading!

oftenreading said:

I understand there has been quite a lot of editing, as you might well imagine given some of the howlers that slipped through in the first two volumes. Also multiple file format changes since the original draft, and you can picture how difficult it is to find a drive that takes papyrus these days. No-one could decide if we needed another list of begats to bring things up to date, and who knows which miracles are impressive enough to make it into print ("we've already done loaves and fishes; nachos and salsa just isn't good enough!"). Should be along any day now.

) Ahh! Now I know why my disc drive is so jammed up!

Nachos and salsa? That was en la Biblia en español, si?

God made evolution.

otter said:

God made evolution.

Are you sure humans didn't evolve to make God?

otter said:

Reason is moot without faith.
An enlightened mind is impossible without faith in the inherent good of civilized people.

reason:
-a statement or fact that explains why something is the way it is, why someone does, thinks, or says something, or why someone behaves a certain way

faith:
-strong belief or trust in someone or something
-belief in the existence of God : strong religious feelings or beliefs
-a system of religious beliefs

I'm not making the connection here. I don't understand why a statement of fact would be dependent on a belief since beliefs are not fact. I don't see the logic here. Can you explain why you believe reason is nullified or non-existent in the absence of faith?

enlightenment:
-the state of having knowledge or understanding : the act of giving someone knowledge or understanding

By definition, enlightenment seems much closer to reason than to faith, therefor should not be dependent on having faith.

If by "civilized" you mean "marked by well-organized laws and rules about how people behave with each other" (Merriam Webster) then yes, I suppose we could be coerced into believing we must have faith to be enlightened but I have the faith that humans can be uncivilized and still be enlightened.

catefrances said:

otter said:

Reason is moot without faith.
An enlightened mind is impossible without faith in the inherent good of civilized people.

excuse me? Reason is moot without faith? How do you figure??

I was even more perplexed by the "inherent good of civilized people" part.
:-/