The Detroit Free Press Building!!!

It probably has more impact if each member composes their own email but here is what I sent (to both city@freepress.com and letters@freepress.com) just as an example to get you started.
You should probably put your full name, city & state at the bottom as well.
Please, for the most impact, let's ALL do this TODAY.
"To whom it concerns (please forward this to the appropriate department if warranted),
I live near San Francisco, California and have recently learned of the deplorable and disrespectful condition of the two U.S. flags that fly above The Free Press headquarters in Detroit.
How ironic that an organization labeling itself "The Free Press" has so little respect for the symbol of one of the many freedoms that we have inherited.
Please locate the funds in your budget to replace these two U.S. flags as soon as possible and, in the mean time, immediately lower and remove the damaged flags.
Your local post of the American Legion can assist you in the to proper disposal of the damaged flags."
Sincerely,
(your name)
(your city, state)

If this is a cause people want to get excited about....ok. Who am I to judge?
Personally, I can think of a bazillion better things to write a letter about, or go make a personal complaint about. I've never been secretive regarding my feelings about nationalist symbols. Like religious symbols, I don't disrespect them because of people I care about and their views....and from an artistic/design standpoint, I'm actually kind of obsessed with them....but I can't help but think that the respect some show these symbols is due to indoctrination and nostalgia for days gone by.
Giving any symbol weight or meaning is like speaking in broad generalizations. Try to tell me what the flag means to you, without speaking in clichés that mean absolutely fuck all upon examination...?
Seeing how easily offended some get about this topic is enough to feel vindicated in my views.

Drowned Out said:

Try to tell me what the flag means to you .

My pleasure.
The U.S. flag represents the freedoms that our ancestors fought for and earned for us.
Showing respect to our flag is our way of honoring and showing thanks to those ancestors.

I'm not the world's biggest U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A'er myself...however, IF you're going to fly a flag on your privately owned building, there's a certain etiquette you're supposed to follow. If the flag gets all ratty, replace it and dispose of the old flag with dignity.

For me the flag doesn't have any effing thing to do with politics or the troops. Maybe it is all nostalgia, honestly, I'm not really sure what the flag means in this day and age, with corporations and banks running what appears to be a pretty corrupt government, the war machine, and a completely distracted population, scared shitless by the media about contracting the ebola, fantasy football results, and Kim Kardashian

If the newspaper (owned by Gannett..they ironically also publish USA Today...) cannot afford to replace it with a new flag because the economy is terrible and people don't buy newspapers, then don't put a new one up.

Yeah, I mentioned the irony in an earlier post. Also wondered about the weather and time factors.

Still, with tiki on the first and third paragraphs of his comments up there.

the tiki bomb said:

that second graph does make me seem a little kooky.

Haha, no! I didn't omit it due to disagreement, just that I realized I may still need to sort out my own thoughts about its general meaning (beyond the personal - if that's possible).

Empty Glass said:

Drowned Out said:

If this is a cause people want to get excited about....ok. Who am I to judge?
Personally, I can think of a bazillion better things to write a letter about, or go make a personal complaint about. I've never been secretive regarding my feelings about nationalist symbols. Like religious symbols, I don't disrespect them because of people I care about and their views....and from an artistic/design standpoint, I'm actually kind of obsessed with them....but I can't help but think that the respect some show these symbols is due to indoctrination and nostalgia for days gone by.
Giving any symbol weight or meaning is like speaking in broad generalizations. Try to tell me what the flag means to you, without speaking in clichés that mean absolutely fuck all upon examination...?
Seeing how easily offended some get about this topic is enough to feel vindicated in my views.

Ok, not that you disagree with those looking to have this fixed but do you want those to chime in with the bazillion things you'd rather take care of? The op noticed the flag of his country was torn. They were hoping to have it changed out. 3 pages of people bitching about the flag means nothing to them is a bit much.

I dunno, maybe we're reading the thread differently....I read it as 3 pages mostly taking shots at Hank for his approach to the topic. I'd rather take shots at him for posting unrelated selfies all the time
I don't expect others to think this way....but it wouldn't be my opinion if I didn't think it was 'right'. Power to the OP if he thinks it's a worthy cause; I realize this wasn't started as some massive, all-consuming campaign. I guess in strict forum-guideline terms, most of us are off-topic here. But...sometimes it's hard to put that genie back in the bottle.
I really don't feel anything either way about the condition of a flag...if anything, it just reflects badly on the company. Bad PR; gives the company a bad impression. If you're going to have ANY kind of decoration on your building, it should be maintained. But esp knowing how some feel about flags, it's just plain bad biz to have a ratty one on your building.

shecky said:

Drowned Out said:

Try to tell me what the flag means to you .

My pleasure.
The U.S. flag represents the freedoms that our ancestors fought for and earned for us.
Showing respect to our flag is our way of honoring and showing thanks to those ancestors.

Exactly my point.... Cliches that don't mean much upon examination. I'm honestly not trying to be a dick by saying this, but this statement sounds like indoctrinated nationalism to me.
Now the examination: Define freedom. Who did your ancestors fight for your freedom, and do you think they'd still be oppressing you today if not for that fight? Did obtaining this freedom come at the expense of other peoples? Do you think the US is unique in its freedoms? Does the US contribute positively or negatively to the freedoms of other countries? How do your answers affect your view of the flag as a symbol of freedom?
All rhetorical questions....just trying to show that these kinds of statements are a kind of over-arching acceptance of our histories that should not get blanket acceptance (hence my comment on generalizations). I have no problem with people invoking nostalgia....I get nostalgic over silly things all the time....but I don't think nostalgia leads to people getting up in arms over the symbol....its when people use generalized, rose-coloured history to make a symbol something they are willing to fight and die for, that it becomes very dangerous.
It is no coincidence that the most militarized countries are also the ones who promote their national symbols with the most vigour.

hedonist said:

the tiki bomb said:

that second graph does make me seem a little kooky.

Haha, no! I didn't omit it due to disagreement, just that I realized I may still need to sort out my own thoughts about its general meaning (beyond the personal - if that's possible).

That's the beauty of this....I think most of us, if we really drilled down and self-examined the feelings that these symbols provoked honestly, would be left a bit confused and unsure, because the personal aspect ends up relating to nostalgia...and the overall meanings are vague and...well...largely meaningless.
tiki - I don't think your second paragraph was kooky or under-flushed at all. Made perfect sense to me.

Drowned Out said:

If this is a cause people want to get excited about....ok. Who am I to judge?
Personally, I can think of a bazillion better things to write a letter about, or go make a personal complaint about. I've never been secretive regarding my feelings about nationalist symbols. Like religious symbols, I don't disrespect them because of people I care about and their views....and from an artistic/design standpoint, I'm actually kind of obsessed with them....but I can't help but think that the respect some show these symbols is due to indoctrination and nostalgia for days gone by.
Giving any symbol weight or meaning is like speaking in broad generalizations. Try to tell me what the flag means to you, without speaking in clichés that mean absolutely fuck all upon examination...?
Seeing how easily offended some get about this topic is enough to feel vindicated in my views.

As usual with your posts, I agree (I'd say it's our Canadian connection, but I know your feelings on nationalism). Am I going to stomp on a flag? Nope. Am I going to waste energy on petitioning for a private corporation to change a flag attached to their facade because it might imply that America is anything but beautiful? Nope.

My apologies for those I will inevitably offend with this statement - but America is a tattered nation (as shown in its poor distribution of power and wealth, its inequalities in treatment based on race or language, as well as its relentless, aggressive and often soulless responses to international conflicts), and a privileged group of nationalistically indoctrinated persons are calling for a facelift while ignoring the fucked up nature of the decision-makers (and what I mean by a facelift is that MedUSA is easier to look at when she's wearing a mask than the ugliness underneath - in other words, it's a self-serving call to action). Similarly, here we have a tattered American flag and a privileged group of nationalistically indoctrinated persons somehow alluding that giving a facelift to Detroit's aesthetics will have any bearing on the city itself (which it will - but a new flag does not equate to a new Detroit). To me, it's a poignant parallel.

At the end of the day, the world is fucked up, and we keep focusing on effects instead of causes. Because we neglect problems and focus on byproducts (collectively), it seems to me that the world will remain fucked up indefinitely. As for flags - I don't believe that focusing on symbols that serve as reminders of our divisiveness does anyone any favours. Wear your nation's flag if it makes you feel good, but that's your flag - do with it what you want. On the other hand, I think we need a flag for "Humans of Planet Earth". That's one I would defend if it got maimed or tattered. Until we found extraterrestrial lifeforms - in which case, we'd need a "Citizens of the Universe" flag (I'd hate for the aliens to feel discriminated against, what kind of a welcome would that be).

shecky said:

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shecky said:

Drowned Out said:

"Try to tell me what the flag means to you ."

My pleasure.
The U.S. flag represents the freedoms that our ancestors fought for and earned for us.
Showing respect to our flag is our way of honoring and showing thanks to those ancestors.

"Exactly my point.... Cliches that don't mean much upon examination."
Thank you for asking for my explanation then insulting me for answering.
My beliefs are not "clichés" and I don't give a shit if they "don't mean much" to you or not.
I am neither dishonest, confused or unsure.
But I am done with your bullshit.

)
First - I didn't direct that questions specifically at you...so I didn't ask for your explanation alone.
Second - I followed the question with 'without speaking in clichés that mean absolutely fuck all upon examination...?'....so...did you not expect me to examine your answer for meaningless clichés?
Third - I never called you any of the things you've implied that I did.
Fourth - I even thru in a disclaimer: 'I'm honestly not trying to be a dick by saying this', because I have noticed over the years that people with low post counts (newbs) seem more easily offended. I guess I should have tried harder not to offend you. Or maybe I just shouldn't have given a shit if your response was going to be so caustic anyway.
Fifth - I'm glad youre done with my bullshit because you seem unable to grasp my point. You seem offended that I've challenged the perception of the country and flag you were taught to believe in. There is no reason to get this upset over a symbol that has only as much meaning as we place upon it. That is where the 'cliche' and 'meaningless' comments come from. I explained my opinion on this with my 'examination'. If you tried to comment on the validity of my examination instead of taking it personally, you might have proved me wrong. Instead, you've only cemented my opinion with this outburst.

Ben - you're right....as soon as I saw that you were agreeing with me, I felt an urge to chalk it up to 'being canadian'....but you're right, that's another example of our indoctrinated self-view....and one that is increasingly meaningless, cliché, and false. Generally speaking, Canadians are becoming more nationalist...and again, it coincides with our military becoming more offensive.

And Hedo - I wasn't accusing you specifically of attacking Hank. Just making a generalized, meaningless statement If you've ever attacked someone personally on this board, I haven't noticed.