The Death Penalty

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  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Byrnzie said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    The simple and direct question has been ignored by most so far: does Rafferty deserve better? For the crime of kidnapping, repeatedly raping an 8 year old girl, bludgeoning her head with a hammer, breaking 16 of her ribs while stomping on her, and then disposing of her remains as one might garbage... does anyone actually think he deserves better than death?

    I don't.

    It has nothing to do with 'deserve'.

    And yet once again you seem to be implying that life behind bars is a life of luxury.
    If it has nothing to do with 'deserve'... then what does it have to do with?

    Life behind bars is most certainly not a 'life of luxury', but comparatively speaking... one could make a case that it is.

    For example, life behind bars is a country club compared to being an 8 year old girl getting raped, having your head smashed in with a hammer, having your ribs stomped in, dying from the ordeal, and getting buried in a shallow grave.
    I see, so as far as you're concerned a just punishment would be rape, followed by the smashing of skulls with a crowbar, and the stomping of ribs, before being buried in a shallow grave?

    That sounds like a very reasonable, stable, and admirable society.

    Actually, it sounds like the sort of depraved society that I imagine many of the psychopaths, whose vile acts you keep trotting out, would relish living in.

    You need to be better at following along.

    I wasn't saying that Rafferty deserved the same fate as the one he administered to poor Victoria (even though some might argue such with some degree of effectiveness).

    But I certainly am saying clinical death is appropriate given his extreme level of depravity. He more than deserves it.

    On that note... in your response to me you said: it has nothing to do with 'deserve'. I asked you what does it have to do with then? You never responded. I'm curious to know what you think it is about when we sentence a man for savagely raping and murdering a child? Should we make him say sorry? It sounds as if that might suffice for you- unless he was from Israel of course.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited September 2014
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    You need to be better at following along.

    I wasn't saying that Rafferty deserved the same fate as the one he administered to poor Victoria (even though some might argue such with some degree of effectiveness).

    But I certainly am saying clinical death is appropriate given his extreme level of depravity. He more than deserves it.

    On that note... in your response to me you said: it has nothing to do with 'deserve'. I asked you what does it have to do with then? You never responded. I'm curious to know what you think it is about when we sentence a man for savagely raping and murdering a child? Should we make him say sorry? It sounds as if that might suffice for you- unless he was from Israel of course.

    When it comes to the question of murdering him in the name of justice, 'deserve' doesn't come into it. I know this may come as a shock to your 'God' complex, but you are in no position to decide whether another person is worthy of life or not. You do not possess that level of omnipotence, or omniscience.
    The only circumstance where your sadistic vengeful fantasies could be established would be in a lawless vigilante state, possibly under conditions of tribal or clan warfare. I think the term used to describe such a society is 'barbarism'.

    Though maybe you're right. But I don't think so. i think civilized societies need to rise above such blood-lust and feelings of revenge.

    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Byrnzie,Im confused here.Isnt a soldier,freedom fighter,etc who is fighting an aggressor also playing an omnipotent god in his decision to pull the trigger against the enemy?I don't think you get to pick which way killing someone is justified.If you disagree with us about the death penelaty then please ship boxes of peace flowers to the soldiers who's cause you support,because that killing is equally as bad,right?
    What thirty said above is on target.Preaching eye for an eye,although fitting is heavy handed.But a quick efficient terminal punishment definitely is within justified behavior.Imo of course
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    On second thought Fuck em!!!

    There is a guy here in South Florida who was driving around with a 8 year old boy dismembered stuffed into a barrel of acid.He Got caught with the chems,the partially eatin away child and another dead little kid back at his house.He is now in a long court battle,dragging the family down again.He deserves so much more then our civility.Would an acid bath not be a fitting punishment also
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Soldiers kill under threat of being killed. Self-defense in a way. Not that I agree with it, joining an actively murdering military is akin to joining a gang in my opinion. Still, the two are hardly the same thing.

    As has been pointed out many times, child murderers are targets in prison. They get raped and beaten, or they get put in solitary confinement for protection. It doesn't take much research to see what kind of hell that is. I agree with Byrnzie, it isn't about what they deserve, and besides, there is logical inconsistency in what you say. After heinous acts they don't deserve rape and torture but they do deserve a painless death that saves them from rape and torture?
    "If you hate something, don't you do it too!"
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    You need to be better at following along.

    I wasn't saying that Rafferty deserved the same fate as the one he administered to poor Victoria (even though some might argue such with some degree of effectiveness).

    But I certainly am saying clinical death is appropriate given his extreme level of depravity. He more than deserves it.

    On that note... in your response to me you said: it has nothing to do with 'deserve'. I asked you what does it have to do with then? You never responded. I'm curious to know what you think it is about when we sentence a man for savagely raping and murdering a child? Should we make him say sorry? It sounds as if that might suffice for you- unless he was from Israel of course.

    When it comes to the question of murdering him in the name of justice, 'deserve' doesn't come into it. I know this may come as a shock to your 'God' complex, but you are in no position to decide whether another person is worthy of life or not. You do not possess that level of omnipotence, or omniscience.
    The only circumstance where your sadistic vengeful fantasies could be established would be in a lawless vigilante state, possibly under conditions of tribal or clan warfare. I think the term used to describe such a society is 'barbarism'.

    Though maybe you're right. But I don't think so. i think civilized societies need to rise above such blood-lust and feelings of revenge.

    By the very definition of the word... to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation... 'deserve' has much to do with how we respond to crimes such as Rafferty's.

    Only God can determine who is worthy of life and who isn't? I guess if you believe in a jolly old fellow sitting in the clouds this might hold some level of truth, however many don't subscribe to such a belief. As such, I don't think we are 'playing God'... I think we are 'playing human' when determining the fate of mutants such as the one in this discussion (or the Southern Florida guy rr mentioned that enjoys dismembering little boys and dissolving them in acid).

    As I'm sure you would agree... I would much prefer people leave other people's kids alone. Given the reality however, we are forced to respond to levels of wickedness that are shocking. To me- and I've said this before- a sentence of death reflects our level of disdain and intolerance for these acts. For the 'typical' murder... prison will suffice, however... for the 'atypical' murder- in particular one that involves a child or several children- a greater punishment is called for from my perspective.

    A child murderer is the lowest form of life on the planet. I don't understand how one can become indignant at the thought of executing a child murderer for their heinous crimes, yet kill... say... insects doing insect things when they are bothering us as we sit by the lake.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rgambs said:

    Soldiers kill under threat of being killed. Self-defense in a way. Not that I agree with it, joining an actively murdering military is akin to joining a gang in my opinion. Still, the two are hardly the same thing.

    As has been pointed out many times, child murderers are targets in prison. They get raped and beaten, or they get put in solitary confinement for protection. It doesn't take much research to see what kind of hell that is. I agree with Byrnzie, it isn't about what they deserve, and besides, there is logical inconsistency in what you say. After heinous acts they don't deserve rape and torture but they do deserve a painless death that saves them from rape and torture?
    "If you hate something, don't you do it too!"

    Most hate being stuffed in a small room too... so by your logic we shouldn't even imprison people?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    We have to segregate these folks from society, we don't have to take sick pleasure in their demise. As many of us have suggested, you have a disturbing desire to see vengeance on these murderers you deem "atypical". It is not simply about eliminating the risk to society, or peace for the family, it is a clearly stated need for deserved vengeance. I haven't seen anyone here become indignant besides yourself. The anti crowd is calm and collected, and often concerned about the well-being of folks who visualize doling out punishments.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited September 2014
    rgambs said:

    We have to segregate these folks from society, we don't have to take sick pleasure in their demise. As many of us have suggested, you have a disturbing desire to see vengeance on these murderers you deem "atypical". It is not simply about eliminating the risk to society, or peace for the family, it is a clearly stated need for deserved vengeance. I haven't seen anyone here become indignant besides yourself. The anti crowd is calm and collected, and often concerned about the well-being of folks who visualize doling out punishments.

    Not entirely true. Before you go on about how awesome you are... look at some of the things you have written about people who hold opposing viewpoints to yours: we don't have to take sick pleasure... you have a disturbing desire... and I could refer to previous posts as well. Can you please copy and paste where I have attacked an opponent of the DP as personally as you have?

    If I felt defensive, I could sling mud too and speak to your soft stance on crime and punishment and your indifference towards the slain children and their families so that you can have justice as you see it (far far removed from the pain inflicted upon some that demand more)... but despite your unflattering argument that sits at a most basic level (name calling)... I'm not feeling defensive.

    The only things sick and disturbing in this long running thread are the obscene crimes that lend weight towards the idea of the DP. Try to keep that in mind when we discuss what we are forced to deal with periodically. Use some of those awful descriptors to describe the murderers like the one with kid in the barrel of acid instead of reserving them for people who have a different sense of justice than yourself.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    rr165892 said:

    On second thought Fuck em!!!

    There is a guy here in South Florida who was driving around with a 8 year old boy dismembered stuffed into a barrel of acid.He Got caught with the chems,the partially eatin away child and another dead little kid back at his house.He is now in a long court battle,dragging the family down again.He deserves so much more then our civility.Would an acid bath not be a fitting punishment also

    damn! who knows exactly how many children this maniac has tortured, killed & put in barrels of acid. fuck this clown, he should be in a fucking big ass jam right this second, not a holding cell & courtroom where his bullshit is drug out for a long, long time.

    the kids' families & society would all be better off if he were not breathing
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    ppl against the death penalty should all volunteer at these prisons, where they can escort the child killer acid barrel guy & other wonderful folks like him to the exercise pens & back to their cells, the showers & back to their cells. you know, maybe sit down & paint or play checkers together
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    edited September 2014
    lukin2006 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    chadwick said:

    oftenreading said:

    Killing an individual in order to avenge another killing just smacks of a frontier justice that has never led to a decent, livable society. Even with those pesky "technicalities" (which help protect everyone's legal rights, including yours), does anyone really want the state to have a legal means to execute its citizens?

    screw the state. private citizens or family members should have a go at some of these low lifes. it would cost the state nothing, it would cost bob $3.50 for a 50 caliber round or go cheaper, throw the maniac child serial predator off a cliff for free
    Does a guy like Michael Rafferty seriously deserve better? He raped and killed beautiful little 8 year old Tori Stafford in as brutal fashion as possible.

    ... he joked and smirked as he chatted with a defence co-counsel, as if he had not a care in the world. And, of course, they knew nothing about his enthusiasm for child rape and other horrors because the Crown's evidence about his Internet interests was ruled inadmissible.

    But the jury probably did notice his attire on one of the trial’s most unpleasant days, when pathologist Michael Pollanen detailed the frightful wounds inflicted on Tori, who was kidnapped, raped and beaten to death with a hammer. To the distress of Tori's relatives, seated at the front of the public gallery, Mr. Rafferty sported a crisp new purple shirt – Tori's favourite colour, and her family's emblem.

    As the awful autopsy images were flashed on to the screen – Tori’s skull was cracked, 16 of her 24 ribs were broken by being stomped upon, and her liver was lacerated – he looked bored, and at one point yawned.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/michael-raffertys-evil-defies-explanation/article4184526/

    How awful of people to think this loser deserves death for his offence.

    Exactly ... why I support the DP for these types is so they can no longer continue to replay their heinous crimes in their minds everyday ... these types are sick fucks with no conscious.
    I don't understand those that want to feed them and house them forever. I'd say ok if they had hard time, hard labor. But the liberals file lawsuits when the prisoners are given pink underwear.

    They can't really have it both ways.

    Post edited by unsung on
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    hard labor is to good for many of these idiots. what would they be laboring at? who wants a product some monster created? smashing boulders into gravel for a road? fuck that. cutting weeds? no, no, & no

    shark & piranha food? i'd seriously like to know what good these defects are good for
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I agree. They can't be rehabilitated.

    So what can we do that the ACLU won't cry abuse?
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited September 2014
    the good folks at the aclu, from the ceo & all his big shot buddies & all the citizens against getting rid of defects, they can volunteer every single day to taking care of them. maybe bring their children & make it a family event of kindness
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Chad,I'm digging your passion.Your in England right? You folks had some nice DP solutions for ages.Maybe a bit shy of fair trial stuff,but quick and efficient for sure.
    Why is guillotine not used anymore?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,668
    rr165892 said:

    callen said:

    Chad and Thirty: don't get how you guys are so close to my veiws on. So many things but on DP we differ greatly.

    Chad: know you've talked on Zen and peace. Or think you have. This is counter to that.

    Thirty we 'be discussed at length and the justification never coincides with all the downsides.

    Look the humans that kill get me in rage as well. I also realize that I can't allow those feelings to over ride being civil and at peace with all repercussions.

    Callen,
    We're they civil when they acted out with violence? And is your being at peace a greater need then the peace the family needs to feel with the elimination of the constant reminder the guilty living represents.With every court date,parole hearing,etc,wounds get reopened and the family is victimized again and again.
    Revenge. Vengence. I don't find it admirable.

    Get revenge on people by committing the same category of crime you proclaim to hate. Makes no sense to sink closer to the level of the one you want to punish. It's morally illogical.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    What do you do with the guy described above?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    What do you do with the guy described above?

    Isolate him from society and try to move on with life. There is plenty of tax money to afford it if we stop jailing drug offenders. It's a nominal fraction of what is spent on corporate welfare and war.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited September 2014
    rr165892 said:

    Chad,I'm digging your passion.Your in England right? You folks had some nice DP solutions for ages.Maybe a bit shy of fair trial stuff,but quick and efficient for sure.
    Why is guillotine not used anymore?

    iowan-corn-shithead, at your service, rr165892. i've lived in washington 9 years or so but moved back here few years ago. never been to england

    alice cooper made the guillotine fun
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

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