Police abuse

gimmesometruth27 said:

yesterday, in broad daylight, a policeman shot and killed an unarmed black teenager in the middle of the street in ferguson, mo, which is about a 12 minute drive from me. it has been all over the news. there is a bunch of unrest in the community. things are really on edge in st louis tonight. officer has been placed on paid leave with his identity hidden for his own protection.

rival gangs, who apparently have nothing to do with any of this, are putting differences aside and are going to go after police.

things are going to come to a head at some point, and it is not going to be pretty.

becareful, sir

unsung said:

vant0037 said:

unsung said:

vant0037 said:

unsung said:

The Police are supposed to serve and protect and there is a trending scale that shows they might be doing the opposite.

There's no such trend. You make that claim by pointing out instances which are undeniably infrequent (given the millions - yes millions - of citizen/police contacts that occur on a daily basis). Is your only other proof that you once dated a girl who was a cop? You can do better than that.

It's easy to pick out awful situations where cops become the bad guys. That doesn't mean there's an epidemic and it doesn't mean all cops are bad.

So which statement, in your mind, is true:

1. A majority of cops are bad and a minority are good.
OR
2. A majority of cops are good and a minority are bad.

Pointing out the bad instances that happen doesn't make either statement true and you're smart enough to know that. But yet you persist in this line of argument, and say unproven things like "there is a trending scale that shows etc etc etc." That leads me to believe you've made up your mind about what cops are like, and believe, perhaps in spite of a lack of proof (aside from whats reported in the news or an ex-relationship), that one of the above statements to be true.

So which is it? It would be very helpful to the rest of us who read these threads about yet another instance of police abuse if we knew what your bias was. It's clear you have one.

Thanks for joining the thread. If you'll take the time to actually read this thread most of what you seek has been addressed.

Forgive me; these threads are so common and chock full of the same canned responses from both sides, that I didn't both wasting my time.

So, if you'd be so kind: which is it? Majority of cops are bad and a minority good, or vice versa?

Before I can answer that I'd need some sort of defined standards.

In short I'd say most of the old timer cops are good, and most of the young blood is bad.

No standards, just a majority or minority of cops. Sheer numbers.

Thank you for answering (seriously), but do you really believe that? There've gotta be, what? 25,000 "young" cops? You believe a majority of them are bad?

I too am concerned when I read about police abuse, but that's a very bold leap to say that because bad things are sometimes done by cops, a majority (of young ones) are bad, don't you think? Isn't that the same thing as claiming that because some libertarians or democrats say stupid things, a majority of them are stupid?

gimmesometruth27 said:

yesterday, in broad daylight, a policeman shot and killed an unarmed black teenager in the middle of the street in ferguson, mo, which is about a 12 minute drive from me. it has been all over the news. there is a bunch of unrest in the community. things are really on edge in st louis tonight. officer has been placed on paid leave with his identity hidden for his own protection.

rival gangs, who apparently have nothing to do with any of this, are putting differences aside and are going to go after police.

things are going to come to a head at some point, and it is not going to be pretty.

Only the gangs are allowed to kill people in that town. How dare the police. Not saying the police shooting was right but what about the hundreds who aren't killed by cops but gang members. No looting, etc.... it would be nice to see people stand up for their towns when the gangs kill.

unsung said:

It is rather ridiculous that it takes a police shooting for them to care.

Us and Them, Unsung.

You are doing your part to ensure that mentality exists. You should understand.

unsung said:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/31/cop-autistic-teen-pot_n_4178746.html

Serving and protecting.

a very sad event that should have the school district & police force both shutdown. i mean i am sure the schools knew of the undercover drug task force officers infiltrating their classrooms

unsung said:

It is sickening. We are being reduced to nothing more than a revenue stream. Laws are written for no reason other than to raise revenue, and the police are existing to do nothing but suck out as much money as possible out of people.

Your attitude has officially hit the 'disturbing' level (you could use a multitude of adjectives as a substitute for 'disturbing' and be accurate).

This one's a homerun:

Police are existing to do nothing but suck out as much money as possible out of people.

Exactly how were the officers in New Brunswick trying to suck money out of people when they were gunned down by a freedom/rights activist idiot carrying his assault rifle through residential streets?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/justin-bourque-targeted-police-using-semi-automatic-rifle-document-1.2733727

This argument is not even an argument. It's become a petty discussion with one side patiently speaking reason to another side that is nothing short of petulant. The side that is speaking reason to the other side is losing patience.

Keep posting your outliers to affirm your beliefs, however... at some point acknowledge that for every one of the absurd events you post... there are countless- fucking countless- examples of good police work you fail to acknowledge. Do you actually think society could exist without police work?

Oh yeah... don't forget to pat yourself on the back for the stoic, heroic, and exemplary work you do on a daily basis that the rest of society values infinitely more than police and legal work!

unsung said:

I will say that the ratio of police that violate some level of civil rights of the civilians in this country is changing for the worse. Is it 51% of the police force? I don't know. I do insist that a good cop that turns a blind eye to these violations is just as guilty as those that commit them.

Of course. I don't think any one would dispute that last statement.

But you've also got to be aware of the fact that there are literally hundreds of thousands of police contacts that occur on a daily basis where cops do something that doesn't constitute "police abuse" (i.e. make an arrest of a violent offender, enforce the law, assist in emergencies, issue tickets, issue warnings, assist someone in need, etc etc etc).

My point is that if the above is true (it is), then it becomes virtually impossible to believe that a handful of incidents where cops outright violate the law, unjustifiably kill someone etc means there is a growing trend of officers who violate some level of civil rights etc. If there are hundreds of thousands of police/citizen contacts every day, then how could a handful of bad incidents ever mean a majority of cops are bad?

And also, lets clarify terms: when an officer makes an arrest that is later found by a judge to be lacking, say, probable cause, that doesn't mean the officer is somehow a "bad" cop (at least in the sense that I think you mean the term; i.e. corrupt, vicious, aggressive etc). Cops are people too and hence, make mistakes. Sometimes officers make an arrest believing they have probable cause, only to find out later that the law says they didn't. That doesn't mean they're a bad cop; it means they made a mistake.

So when we talk about "abuse," I think it's fair to say we're talking about cops who kill people, use excessive force etc. The real question in the information age is whether the bad instances you're pointing out are actually happening more frequently, or whether there is simply more reporting of the instances that do occur.

I think you're rightly upset about any reported abuse stories out there involving cops. Good citizens should be. But I also think you're taking that outrage and trying to make a broader claim about ALL cops, a claim for which there just isn't evidence.