Chris Hedges: Americans Are Living a Fantasy

Byrnzie said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not justifying anything... so don't twist the issue while you run from your statements.

I'm pointing out the fact that you readily place aside your values when you refer to America or Americans. You consistently seem willing to collectively vilify them whenever the opportunity presents itself. You would deny this?

If you would deny this... this comment would seem to suggest you may not be sincere doing so: He's speaking of Americans. Are you not American?

Cute. Please point out where i twisted anything. Then tell me where I 'ran from my statements'. Thanks.

This thread is about the present State of the U.S, and it's self-perpetuating material consumption that's supported by a huge fantasy.
Chris Hedges listed half a dozen examples of this, which I typed out above.

Please point out the comparison with labeling a race of people 'fucking savages', and 'a sub-species'.

I'm not supporting those statements. I'm speaking to your hypocritical nature which apparently you fail to comprehend. Don't worry though- it happens to most that have trouble listening and love their own voice.

You continually rush to condemn those that broadly categorize people of the same ethnicity for the actions of some... yet lead the pack to do the exact thing with Americans.

You are right to defend those unfairly characterized. Just don't pick and choose who you'll defend and you won't come across as you do. I'm not defensive here. I'm not American. I have problems with America like I do most countries, but I don't think all Americans are responsible for the problems I have with their country. You've never qualified any of your scathing statements about America or Americans... it's quite obvious how you feel about both.

I watched your video. It was interesting. I commented on it. It's easy to point out the problems though. There's a long list of people who have essentially said the same thing. What's the solution? Offer a plan that people can buy into... then you're on to something and now you have my attention.

* This is the second time you have made reference to what this thread is truly about. The first time you did I had to laugh to myself. Remember the Sean Penn clip you posted in an attempt to indict all Americans for America's wrongdoings? Do you remember when I commented on it... and then you did your very best Ted Knight Bushwood impersonation uttering your That's not what this thread is about comment?

For future reference... especially in the threads you create... when you offer something... be prepared to be challenged on it without ducking it- citing the old the intent of the thread comment.

Byrnzie said:

He's basically drawing attention to a cultural disease. The same disease that effects individuals. It's the disease that tells us that if we buy something then everything will be better. Then, an hour after we've bought it, the feeling of gratification wears off, and we tell ourselves that we need to buy something else. This cycle repeats itself ad infinitum until we find ourselves surrounded by crap that we don't really need.
This psychological illness can now be seen manifesting itself on a cultural level. Hedges takes the U.S as a prime example - a country living beyond it's means, devastating the environment that it depends on for it's consumption (while keeping the faith in a 2000 year old Middle Eastern desert religion that has zero relevance to the time we're living in), rewarding those who are robbing the country, while destroying the manufacturing base (the livelihoods of the majority of it's citizens) - all the while telling themselves that more consumption is the answer.
He points out that the U.S regards itself as the greatest democracy on Earth, while the system is clearly anything but - a system run by, and for, big business, and which imposes it's interests on other countries by force. A country whose main export to the World is arms, and whose military budget has now entered the stratosphere. A country that preaches freedom, yet imprisons over 2 million of it's citizens, and has been waging a war on the poor of it's country - under the name of a war on drugs - for the past few decades.
He's saying that something has to give, and he wonders if people are ready for it when it hits.

It's not an attack on Americans as people. It's an attack on the fantasies that are fueling this train wreck in motion.

OK - then I go back to my first comment in this thread. He's not speaking for me. I live so far below my means that it's almost embarassing....except that I don't really care what people think.

Not to derail Byrnzie's interesting thread but every time I read the thread title I think of yet another way we are living a fantasy. For example, the other day we went out to eat and I was asked if I wanted a glass of water and I said "Just a small glass please" and was brought an entire pitcher. What I didn't drink I assume got dumped (I think they have to by law). HELLO, we're in a major drought here on the west coast!

Byrnzie said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not supporting those statements. I'm speaking to your hypocritical nature which apparently you fail to comprehend. Don't worry though- it happens to most that have trouble listening and love their own voice.

You continually rush to condemn those that broadly categorize people of the same ethnicity for the actions of some... yet lead the pack to do the exact thing with Americans.

Americans aren't an ethnicity. And nobody accused them of being 'fucking savages', or a 'sub-species'. This thread is about America as a country, and about the illusions that country propagates in order to fuel it's mass-consumption.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I don't think all Americans are responsible for the problems I have with their country.

Neither do I.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Remember the Sean Penn clip you posted in an attempt to indict all Americans for America's wrongdoings? Do you remember when I commented on it... and then you did your very best Ted Knight Bushwood impersonation uttering your That's not what this thread is about comment?

Yeah, I remember posting that clip. Though you're clearly confused - or just being deliberately obtuse - about my reasons for posting it. It was in response to Know1's post in which he claimed that Hedges was ignorant, and that he was ignorant for making such a broad generalization with his use of the word 'We'. Hedges is American. He was addressing a crowd of Americans. His talk focused on the present cultural situation the U.S is in. The criticism is of the culture, not any particular race. And no such abuse of any race, such as that in the Chinese Tiger Farms thread, has occurred.

You tried excusing and justifying the racist filth in that other thread. And here again you're trying to equate it - thereby tacitly defending it - with this thread. Why is that?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

For future reference... especially in the threads you create... when you offer something... be prepared to be challenged on it without ducking it- citing the old the intent of the thread comment.

You don't know me very well do you. I don't duck anything.

Carry on.

For the last time... quit yelling and listen for once: I am not defending racist attitudes.

Here's where you reeaaaaaallllllly need to listen: I am pointing out the hypocrisy that exists within you. I pointed it out before in other threads and I am pointing it out again, now in this thread... because... as you are currently doing... you refuse to acknowledge that, whether justified or not, you have a very unflattering view of America that leaves very little room for acknowledging the reality that there are many more good American people than bad (although you did say neither do I to the point I raised about not all Americans being responsible for the problems with America... it must have been hard for you).

You might wish to take note, Byrnzie, how I 'succinctly' framed this for you. I never went to the Guardian and puked a 12 page essay, nor have I submitted and hour and five minute video for people to spend their day on trying to make myself seem impressive.

To the thread topic if you dare... as I asked before... what's the solution? Lamenting the problems that we know exist has been done before by many people. Dispersing knowledge is an important component of a change effort, but there needs to be much more.

How does a country like the US correct the corporate takeover that appears to have seized it? Who is the person to lead such a change effort? Is it reality to think change is even possible... or is this simply a case of a crumbling empire- such as Rome- being destroyed by decadence and greed?

You have offered the piece and if your intent was to spread the word... well done. I'm sure there are at least 20 people who have sat through the entire video on this forum. If you really want people's attention... and for some really good discussion... let's hear your ideas on what needs to occur for a correction to happen.

rgambs said:

im with you on this byrnzie...
It seems like all people do nowadays is equivocate...everyone is afraid to say something concrete or "paint with a broad brush"

So making general assumptions about demographic groups is reasonable? This would be a turn in attitude on this forum.