Chris Hedges: Americans Are Living a Fantasy

Byrnzie

This is great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80CFKM473hg

Byrnzie

Great article here by Chris Hedges published yesterday:

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/23654-chris-hedges-the-power-of-imagination

Chris Hedges - The Power of Imagination
Monday, 12 May 2014

know1

When he uses the term "we", he doesn't mean me. Most people that I've come across who use use such big generalizations, haven't been overly intelligent....or they have an agenda and aren't speaking truth.

callen

First, great clip and thanks for sharing.

First want to acknowledge know1's post. Kinda agree as it's not an American issue but rather say its a human issue. I've seen the European with his 60 mpg diesel, eating small portions, small flat come to US and buy big SUV, 4000 sq house And go to restaurants all the time.

We all have our false realities and all juggle our lies, successfully. How we keep all these balls in the air is amazing. We are animals as well and will eat and consume till nothing is left. Easter Island will happen to the planet and we will greet our fellow human badly by justifying. We all justify. Till it hurts we will not change. I just hope, selfish as I am, and I'm no different, that I'll be gone before we completely destroy this planet.

Byrnzie

know1 said:

When he uses the term "we", he doesn't mean me.

Yes, he does. He's speaking of Americans. Are you not American? Even if you didn't vote for the present incumbent, you still pay taxes that pay for Guantanamo Bay, that paid for the Iraq war, and that bailed out the crooks on Wall Street during the financial crisis, e.t.c. He's talking of America and the people who live in America. If you want to talk semantics and point out that the word 'America' itself is a generalization, then go ahead. But Chris Hedges use of the word 'we' doesn't make him ignorant or untruthful.

Byrnzie

know1 said:

When he uses the term "we", he doesn't mean me. Most people that I've come across who use use such big generalizations, haven't been overly intelligent....or they have an agenda and aren't speaking truth.

What Sean Penn says in this interview is interesting in relation to your comment. Forward to 1:50 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WRJ5Pgoc2s

Thirty Bills Unpaid

So broad scale generalizations for Americans is okay... but similar tactics used to collectively portray the Chinese negatively in the Chinese tiger farm thread or Muslims negatively in any of the Muslim threads are not?

Don't get me wrong... I'm just pointing out to you what I tried to illustrate before to deaf ears: let's offer good Americans the same respect we offer good Chinese people and good Muslim people.

It is noble that Penn takes responsibility for not doing enough to keep Bush from assuming power, but it is a stretch to suggest the people who adamantly opposed Bush didn't do 'enough' to prevent him from making the decisions he did. In reality, there are countless good Americans that live alongside other Americans with ideals different from theirs.

know1

Byrnzie said:

know1 said:

When he uses the term "we", he doesn't mean me.

Yes, he does. He's speaking of Americans. Are you not American? Even if you didn't vote for the present incumbent, you still pay taxes that pay for Guantanamo Bay, that paid for the Iraq war, and that bailed out the crooks on Wall Street during the financial crisis, e.t.c. He's talking of America and the people who live in America. If you want to talk semantics and point out that the word 'America' itself is a generalization, then go ahead. But Chris Hedges use of the word 'we' doesn't make him ignorant or untruthful.

I think he's talking about a mindset and attitudes and not the fact that I'm forced to pay for things that I don't support like all those you mentioned.

I can't see any possible spin that would make me not think he's painting with a very broad brush. And when you paint that way, you screw up a lot of the details.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

So broad scale generalizations for Americans is okay... but similar tactics used to collectively portray the Chinese negatively in the Chinese tiger farm thread or Muslims negatively in any of the Muslim threads are not?

Similar tactics? Did you even watch the video? Do you even know what the criticism consists of? Nobody in this thread has accused Americans of being a 'sub-species', or 'fucking savages'.

Stop trying to justify the racist bile in the other thread. There's no 'similarity' whatsoever.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

It is noble that Penn takes responsibility for not doing enough to keep Bush from assuming power, but it is a stretch to suggest the people who adamantly opposed Bush didn't do 'enough' to prevent him from making the decisions he did. In reality, there are countless good Americans that live alongside other Americans with ideals different from theirs.

Great, except none of this has anything to do with what this thread is about. I suggest you watch the clip I posted before commenting on it.

Byrnzie

know1 said:

I can't see any possible spin that would make me not think he's painting with a very broad brush. And when you paint that way, you screw up a lot of the details.

Great. So what details does he 'screw up'? What exactly does he say that isn't true?

He says that America ("We") has "established off-shore penal colonies where we openly torture other human beings". Is that not true?

He says that America has suspended habeas corpus. Is that not true?

He says that America has engaged in warrant-less wiretapping and eavesdropping of American civilians. Is that not true?

He says that America has built a system of unfettered Capitalism which has turned everything, from human beings to the natural environment, into commodities, for exploitation until exhaustion, or collapse. Is that not true?

He says that America has been borrowing $2 Billion a day from the Chinese, and have been for the last ten years. Is that not true?

He says that America has destroyed it's manufacturing base and described it an an opportunity for growth. Is that not true?

He says that all of this has fed into an illusion of growth and prosperity, whereas the reality is that you are borrowing beyond your means, and living at an unsustainable level of consumption. And that this illusion is being fueled and propagated in a dangerous cycle, and that the illusion is sustained by a self-perpetuating fantasy which convinces people that greater consumption will make us happier. Is this not true?

know1

Byrnzie said:

know1 said:

I can't see any possible spin that would make me not think he's painting with a very broad brush. And when you paint that way, you screw up a lot of the details.

Great. So what details does he 'screw up'? What exactly does he say that isn't true?

He says that America ("We") has "established off-shore penal colonies where we openly torture other human beings". Is that not true?

He says that America has suspended habeas corpus. Is that not true?

He says that America has engaged in warrant-less wiretapping and eavesdropping of American civilians. Is that not true?

He says that America has built a system of unfettered Capitalism which has turned everything, from human beings to the natural environment, into commodities, for exploitation until exhaustion, or collapse. Is that not true?

He says that America has been borrowing $2 Billion a day from the Chinese, and have been for the last ten years. Is that not true?

He says that America has destroyed it's manufacturing base and described it an an opportunity for growth. Is that not true?

He says that all of this has fed into an illusion of growth and prosperity, whereas the reality is that you are borrowing beyond your means, and living at an unsustainable level of consumption. And that this illusion is being fueled and propagated in a dangerous cycle, and that the illusion is sustained by a self-perpetuating fantasy which convinces people that greater consumption will make us happier. Is this not true?

OK - I'll grant you that I didn't take it that way originally. I heard him saying "we" and I thought he meant all of us as individuals. More of it makes sense if you think we=America as a whole.

But there are still things that I view as errors:

"We lived through a banana republic election in which the state supported the theft of the democratic vote"

The shot at Christianity in the context that we're all taught the illusion that Jesus can do miracles isn't entirely accurate if you think we=America.

The comments about us all remaining childish and not being prepared for things like house foreclosure do not seem to follow the we=America concept either.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

So broad scale generalizations for Americans is okay... but similar tactics used to collectively portray the Chinese negatively in the Chinese tiger farm thread or Muslims negatively in any of the Muslim threads are not?

Similar tactics? Did you even watch the video? Do you even know what the criticism consists of? Nobody in this thread has accused Americans of being a 'sub-species', or 'fucking savages'.

Stop trying to justify the racist bile in the other thread. There's no 'similarity' whatsoever.

I'm not justifying anything... so don't twist the issue while you run from your statements.

I'm pointing out the fact that you readily place aside your values when you refer to America or Americans. You consistently seem willing to collectively vilify them whenever the opportunity presents itself. You would deny this?

If you would deny this... this comment would seem to suggest you may not be sincere doing so: He's speaking of Americans. Are you not American?

Jason P

I blame Square ENIX.

backseatLover12

Byrnzie said:

know1 said:

I can't see any possible spin that would make me not think he's painting with a very broad brush. And when you paint that way, you screw up a lot of the details.

Great. So what details does he 'screw up'? What exactly does he say that isn't true?

He says that America ("We") has "established off-shore penal colonies where we openly torture other human beings". Is that not true?

He says that America has suspended habeas corpus. Is that not true?

He says that America has engaged in warrant-less wiretapping and eavesdropping of American civilians. Is that not true?

He says that America has built a system of unfettered Capitalism which has turned everything, from human beings to the natural environment, into commodities, for exploitation until exhaustion, or collapse. Is that not true?

He says that America has been borrowing $2 Billion a day from the Chinese, and have been for the last ten years. Is that not true?

He says that America has destroyed it's manufacturing base and described it an an opportunity for growth. Is that not true?

He says that all of this has fed into an illusion of growth and prosperity, whereas the reality is that you are borrowing beyond your means, and living at an unsustainable level of consumption. And that this illusion is being fueled and propagated in a dangerous cycle, and that the illusion is sustained by a self-perpetuating fantasy which convinces people that greater consumption will make us happier. Is this not true?

Call me crazy, but everything you write here is not describing Americans as individuals but the American government. So point the finger at the problem in Washington rather than the people.

chadwick

scary stuff. i do believe the u.s. is in a fucking jam. many have their heads stuck in the sand. mostly our government is run by slick used cars salesmen. fact

those w/ their heads stuck in the sand truly believe what they are told by their leaders. wake up folks, it's a fucking bullshit story. i've only listened & watched chris' first 5 minutes talking & i gotta say he is not full of shit or dreaming or smoking crack

thank you, byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Wall Street is run by a criminal class at this point.

The decision to commit 12.8 trillion to a financial system dominated by speculators has empowered a criminal class that has not only trashed the global economy, but robbed small shareholders- many of whom are sitting in this room.

Remember that in the 17th century, speculators were hung.

And...

Acknowledge that the for profit healthcare industry is the problem and must be destroyed. It is an industry that holds sick kids hostage as their parents bankrupt themselves to save their sons and daughters.

These comments resonate within me.

gimmesometruth27

"i said to myself "you better have plan b, c, d, e, f, and g, otherwise you are going to starve to death in the america. i saw that the america was going to happen to me. the america is not a place that you live in. it is a video game that you survive."

henry rollins

Jason P

gimmesometruth27 said:

"i said to myself "you better have plan b, c, d, e, f, and g, otherwise you are going to starve to death in the america. i saw that the america was going to happen to me. the america is not a place that you live in. it is a video game that you survive."

henry rollins

Was that one of Henry's quotes while working Hollywood's parts? :ar!

Jason P

Jason P said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

"i said to myself "you better have plan b, c, d, e, f, and g, otherwise you are going to starve to death in the america. i saw that the america was going to happen to me. the america is not a place that you live in. it is a video game that you survive."

henry rollins

Was that one of Henry's quotes while working Hollywood's parts? :ar!

It would be awesome to survive a video game with starletts chasing after you.

The universe ...

brianlux

Jason P said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

"i said to myself "you better have plan b, c, d, e, f, and g, otherwise you are going to starve to death in the america. i saw that the america was going to happen to me. the america is not a place that you live in. it is a video game that you survive."

henry rollins

Was that one of Henry's quotes while working Hollywood's parts? :ar!

I'm pretty sure he was indeed, Jason P. I think he mentions that in the same video which is basically a brief autobiographical video Rollins made. Making movies is part of Henry's effort to survive America. He is one hard working dude who is doing well- for which I am very thankful!

"Hack or pack!"