He's basically drawing attention to a cultural disease. The same disease that effects individuals. It's the disease that tells us that if we buy something then everything will be better. Then, an hour after we've bought it, the feeling of gratification wears off, and we tell ourselves that we need to buy something else. This cycle repeats itself ad infinitum until we find ourselves surrounded by crap that we don't really need. This psychological illness can now be seen manifesting itself on a cultural level. Hedges takes the U.S as a prime example - a country living beyond it's means, devastating the environment that it depends on for it's consumption (while keeping the faith in a 2000 year old Middle Eastern desert religion that has zero relevance to the time we're living in), rewarding those who are robbing the country, while destroying the manufacturing base (the livelihoods of the majority of it's citizens) - all the while telling themselves that more consumption is the answer. He points out that the U.S regards itself as the greatest democracy on Earth, while the system is clearly anything but - a system run by, and for, big business, and which imposes it's interests on other countries by force. A country whose main export to the World is arms, and whose military budget has now entered the stratosphere. A country that preaches freedom, yet imprisons over 2 million of it's citizens, and has been waging a war on the poor of it's country - under the name of a war on drugs - for the past few decades. He's saying that something has to give, and he wonders if people are ready for it when it hits.
It's not an attack on Americans as people. It's an attack on the fantasies that are fueling this train wreck in motion.
OK - then I go back to my first comment in this thread. He's not speaking for me. I live so far below my means that it's almost embarassing....except that I don't really care what people think.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
OK - then I go back to my first comment in this thread. He's not speaking for me. I live so far below my means that it's almost embarassing....except that I don't really care what people think.
Fair enough. On second thoughts, I only partly agree with what Sean Penn said about being responsible for what government you get. Maybe if you're an active participant in public and/or political affairs, then you're right to feel somehow responsible in the face of a cultural, or political clusterfuck. But I realize that not all people feel an attachment to their culture. I don't feel responsible for the government of self-serving public school boys in power in the U.K right now, or the current state of affairs in that country in general, and I certainly don't feel responsible for the self-serving fascist dinosaurs in power in the country where I'm currently living, or the myriad weird, wonderful, idiotic and deranged things that go into making this country what it is. Chris Hedges isn't talking about particular individuals, but the country as a whole - the general population, or the larger culture or society; call it what you will. We all contribute something to the present day illusions that sustain our modern World though, right? We all spend a lot of time on the internet, distract ourselves with movies, and music, and maybe t.v. Most of us are completely disconnected from the natural World, and from the impact our consumer culture is having on the wider environment.
Not to derail Byrnzie's interesting thread but every time I read the thread title I think of yet another way we are living a fantasy. For example, the other day we went out to eat and I was asked if I wanted a glass of water and I said "Just a small glass please" and was brought an entire pitcher. What I didn't drink I assume got dumped (I think they have to by law). HELLO, we're in a major drought here on the west coast!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Call me crazy, but everything you write here is not describing Americans as individuals but the American government. So point the finger at the problem in Washington rather than the people.
It's not about the government. He's referring to the culture. A culture that now exists mostly in a fantasy World that's created and nurtured by big-business and the media. The government are just one cog in this wheel. Not that other countries aren't also guilty of the same blinkeredness, including the U.K, and China, but the U.S, as far as Hedges is concerned, is leading the way.
Ok. And yeah, the culture is that way, but it's nothing new. Having proposed and started up a green initiative at a former company I worked for, awareness of the existing massive consumeristic and throw away oriented culture isn't new. Happiness to some is in the next purchase. It's an epidemic that has been around for a long time. And like you said, it is not exclusive to the US. The problem is the media, fluff mainstream "news", and the dumbing down of society.
I'm not supporting those statements. I'm speaking to your hypocritical nature which apparently you fail to comprehend. Don't worry though- it happens to most that have trouble listening and love their own voice.
You continually rush to condemn those that broadly categorize people of the same ethnicity for the actions of some... yet lead the pack to do the exact thing with Americans.
Americans aren't an ethnicity. And nobody accused them of being 'fucking savages', or a 'sub-species'. This thread is about America as a country, and about the illusions that country propagates in order to fuel it's mass-consumption.
Remember the Sean Penn clip you posted in an attempt to indict all Americans for America's wrongdoings? Do you remember when I commented on it... and then you did your very best Ted Knight Bushwood impersonation uttering your That's not what this thread is about comment?
Yeah, I remember posting that clip. Though you're clearly confused - or just being deliberately obtuse - about my reasons for posting it. It was in response to Know1's post in which he claimed that Hedges was ignorant, and that he was ignorant for making such a broad generalization with his use of the word 'We'. Hedges is American. He was addressing a crowd of Americans. His talk focused on the present cultural situation the U.S is in. The criticism is of the culture, not any particular race. And no such abuse of any race, such as that in the Chinese Tiger Farms thread, has occurred.
You tried excusing and justifying the racist filth in that other thread. And here again you're trying to equate it - thereby tacitly defending it - with this thread. Why is that?
For future reference... especially in the threads you create... when you offer something... be prepared to be challenged on it without ducking it- citing the old the intent of the thread comment.
You don't know me very well do you. I don't duck anything.
Carry on.
For the last time... quit yelling and listen for once: I am not defending racist attitudes.
Here's where you reeaaaaaallllllly need to listen: I am pointing out the hypocrisy that exists within you. I pointed it out before in other threads and I am pointing it out again, now in this thread... because... as you are currently doing... you refuse to acknowledge that, whether justified or not, you have a very unflattering view of America that leaves very little room for acknowledging the reality that there are many more good American people than bad (although you did say neither do I to the point I raised about not all Americans being responsible for the problems with America... it must have been hard for you).
You might wish to take note, Byrnzie, how I 'succinctly' framed this for you. I never went to the Guardian and puked a 12 page essay, nor have I submitted and hour and five minute video for people to spend their day on trying to make myself seem impressive.
To the thread topic if you dare... as I asked before... what's the solution? Lamenting the problems that we know exist has been done before by many people. Dispersing knowledge is an important component of a change effort, but there needs to be much more.
How does a country like the US correct the corporate takeover that appears to have seized it? Who is the person to lead such a change effort? Is it reality to think change is even possible... or is this simply a case of a crumbling empire- such as Rome- being destroyed by decadence and greed?
You have offered the piece and if your intent was to spread the word... well done. I'm sure there are at least 20 people who have sat through the entire video on this forum. If you really want people's attention... and for some really good discussion... let's hear your ideas on what needs to occur for a correction to happen.
im with you on this byrnzie... It seems like all people do nowadays is equivocate...everyone is afraid to say something concrete or "paint with a broad brush"
im with you on this byrnzie... It seems like all people do nowadays is equivocate...everyone is afraid to say something concrete or "paint with a broad brush"
So making general assumptions about demographic groups is reasonable? This would be a turn in attitude on this forum.
This a human condition not an American one. We're herd animals and we get high on acquiring.
Canadians are not above anyone with regards to such a condition. We're as bad as the next people and getting worse- we're just not under the microscope as much.
im with you on this byrnzie... It seems like all people do nowadays is equivocate...everyone is afraid to say something concrete or "paint with a broad brush"
So making general assumptions about demographic groups is reasonable? This would be a turn in attitude on this forum.
reasonable? Personally, I think so. You can't always say "i understand there are people to which this does not apply" after every statement you make. At some point, those of us who are intelligent should gather it from context. Obviously, (here i go breaking my rule on equivocation) there is a limit to how far you can go but I stand on my point...if the attitude on this forum were the basis for vedders lyrics we wouldn't have WMA, we wouldn't have Getaway, Bushleaguer, etc because they offend. Sometimes you just have to speak boldly and we are lucky Chris Hedges does so.
im with you on this byrnzie... It seems like all people do nowadays is equivocate...everyone is afraid to say something concrete or "paint with a broad brush"
So making general assumptions about demographic groups is reasonable? This would be a turn in attitude on this forum.
reasonable? Personally, I think so. You can't always say "i understand there are people to which this does not apply" after every statement you make. At some point, those of us who are intelligent should gather it from context. Obviously, (here i go breaking my rule on equivocation) there is a limit to how far you can go but I stand on my point...if the attitude on this forum were the basis for vedders lyrics we wouldn't have WMA, we wouldn't have Getaway, Bushleaguer, etc because they offend. Sometimes you just have to speak boldly and we are lucky Chris Hedges does so.
Is there a line anywhere?
For example, when someone becomes indignant after watching people in China abuse tigers... are you saying we should understand the context for which they refer to the Chinese as 'savages' and allow the comment to stand unchallenged or unqualified?
... or when someone becomes enraged watching a public stoning of a woman buried chest high as per Sharia Law... are you saying we should understand the context for which they refer to the Muslims as 'animals' and allow the comment to stand unchallenged or unqualified?
... or when someone becomes depressed watching a video of a Norwegian whaling ship... are you saying we should understand the context for which they refer to the Norwegians as 'scum' and allow the comment to stand unchallenged or unqualified?
of course there is a line, that's why we all love to come in and debate where to draw it! Also these examples are nothing close to equivalent to what Chris Hedges said. He is looking at the culture of America which happens to be a generalization in itself. Should we not discuss different cultures because they paint too broad a stroke? Of course we should! we take it for granted that nobody fits exactly into any labels or generalizations and recognize there are observable tendancies which are worth noting...
of course there is a line, that's why we all love to come in and debate where to draw it! Also these examples are nothing close to equivalent to what Chris Hedges said. He is looking at the culture of America which happens to be a generalization in itself. Should we not discuss different cultures because they paint too broad a stroke? Of course we should! we take it for granted that nobody fits exactly into any labels or generalizations and recognize there are observable tendancies which are worth noting...
I realize those examples are not as 'damning' as what Hedges said.
I only spoke to what appeared to me to be 'selectiveness' with regards to whom one might choose to categorize. I was not speaking to anything else.
Once again... this thread gets mired into a side discussion. It's probably my fault. Sorry.
I asked questions of Byrnzie relevant to the thread discussion that I think are meaningful questions.
I'll ask again given that they are buried now underneath petty squabbling and nobody has summoned the energy to give it a shot:
Lamenting the problems that we know exist has been done before by many people. Dispersing knowledge is an important component of a change effort, but there needs to be much more. What's the solution?
How does a country like the US correct the corporate takeover that appears to have seized it? Who is the person to lead such a change effort? Is it reality to think change is even possible... or is this simply a case of a crumbling empire- such as Rome- being destroyed by decadence and greed and eroding from within?
I never went to the Guardian and puked a 12 page essay, nor have I submitted and hour and five minute video for people to spend their day on trying to make myself seem impressive.
Yeah, that's me. You've got me all figured out. I want to make myself seem impressive.
To the thread topic if you dare... as I asked before... what's the solution? Lamenting the problems that we know exist has been done before by many people. Dispersing knowledge is an important component of a change effort, but there needs to be much more.
How does a country like the US correct the corporate takeover that appears to have seized it? Who is the person to lead such a change effort? Is it reality to think change is even possible... or is this simply a case of a crumbling empire- such as Rome- being destroyed by decadence and greed?
As far as I can see, the solution can only lie within each individual. Maybe begin by venturing outside more often. Also, buying less stuff. Walking, hiking, and reading (. Here's another one - I've ordered it, but not read it yet, but it's a bestseller in France, and looks good: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1781682704/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
...the outdoors life, environmental activism, and an effort to understand that so-called 'primitive cultures and societies' are not as primitive as we like to think, and that they possess valuable knowledge - knowledge that's looking more and more likely to be intrinsic to our survival.
I never went to the Guardian and puked a 12 page essay, nor have I submitted and hour and five minute video for people to spend their day on trying to make myself seem impressive.
Yeah, that's me. You've got me all figured out. I want to make myself seem impressive.
To the thread topic if you dare... as I asked before... what's the solution? Lamenting the problems that we know exist has been done before by many people. Dispersing knowledge is an important component of a change effort, but there needs to be much more.
How does a country like the US correct the corporate takeover that appears to have seized it? Who is the person to lead such a change effort? Is it reality to think change is even possible... or is this simply a case of a crumbling empire- such as Rome- being destroyed by decadence and greed?
As far as I can see, the solution can only lie within each individual. Maybe begin by venturing outside more often. Also, buying less stuff. Walking, hiking, and reading (. Here's another one - I've ordered it, but not read it yet, but it's a bestseller in France, and looks good: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1781682704/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
...the outdoors life, environmental activism, and an effort to understand that so-called 'primitive cultures and societies' are not as primitive as we like to think, and that they possess valuable knowledge - knowledge that's looking more and more likely to be intrinsic to our survival.
I came across like a smart ass. I didn't need to confront you in this thread... but for whatever reason I did. So... sorry, man.
I'll read the article tomorrow. Books are backlogged right now- adding another one to the queue would be contributing to the problem we are talking about! I'll check them out anyways- thanks for the recommendation.
I agree that in the short term and micro scale, people need to begin to simplify- including myself.
As one can surmise, fixing the problem on the grand scale is going to require something dramatic. A complete overhaul is necessary and the forces opposing such a change effort are not going to be very receptive to such a movement.
The earth might need a natural disaster to facilitate the changes necessary to move away from corporatism.
I can't watch the video at this time, but have been reading the comments here.
I think it is true that it's human nature to want to consume. I do think that America is certainly one of the leaders in this area. It's like anything good in life...once you get some, you want more.
I do also agree that this is not sustainable and we need to find a balance before a complete collapse. I know that I have times in my life where I am certainly part of the problem. My house is bigger than I need...I buy more "stuff" than I need...and I do at times get the itch to buy more to get that happy feeling that someone mentioned here. It's pretty obvious to me that it is human nature that is then influenced more by our environment....commericals, TV, all media really.
We do need to gradually scale back and change the thought of what is good. I think the whole idea of appearing successful to others is a big part of the problem. We need to build self esteem through more than possessions.
getting back to nature is the key, yall are smart! i offer guided wilderness hikes, rock climbs, and immersion therapy for all PJ fans who wish to return to the wild. I also offer gardening and husbandry to the faithful! J/K but we are working toward sustainability and making real progress...as long as they don't frack our water.
In all fairness, it was Britain that started the industrial revolution - paid for mostly by the profits from the slave trade - and that also spawned the Puritans, who viewed the natural World, and all the animals, as having been placed here by 'God' solely for our benefit. And it was these same individuals who preached that the harder we work, and the more materialistically wealthy we became, would prove our devotion to the Almighty.
Basically, we fucked it up for everybody.
So there will be surely be a kind of ironic justice at work when the British Isles becomes one of the first places to disappear under the sea, as it's predicted to do, as a result of global warming and rising sea levels.
Good interview with David Foster Wallace here. He touches on some of the points raised in this thread re: consumerism, and the delusional and destructive nature of our culture.
I can't watch the video at this time, but have been reading the comments here.
I think it is true that it's human nature to want to consume. I do think that America is certainly one of the leaders in this area. It's like anything good in life...once you get some, you want more.
It's not human nature. It's learned behaviour. It's something the advertising industry feeds on. But we're not born with an urge to consume. It's a cultural thing - a modern cultural thing. You don't see tribal societies plundering their environments and hording stuff they don't need.
See the Frontline piece on the NSA that aired tonight on PBS
I saw it, it was fantastic.
Just watched both episodes.
One thing that struck me was how the NSA and their apologists keep trotting the same line about how they're concerned with protecting Americans, and how 9/11 could have been prevented if they'd had better technology, and the ability to access everyone's information. This is bullshit. I'm surprised there was zero mention of the 6th August 2001 Presidents daily briefing memo entitled '“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”
They had the info then, and they deliberately ignored it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=1& '...Operatives connected to Bin Laden, one reported on June 29, expected the planned near-term attacks to have “dramatic consequences,” including major casualties. On July 1, the brief stated that the operation had been delayed, but “will occur soon.” Some of the briefs again reminded Mr. Bush that the attack timing was flexible, and that, despite any perceived delay, the planned assault was on track.
Yet, the White House failed to take significant action. Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else.
That same day in Chechnya, according to intelligence I reviewed, Ibn Al-Khattab, an extremist who was known for his brutality and his links to Al Qaeda, told his followers that there would soon be very big news. Within 48 hours, an intelligence official told me, that information was conveyed to the White House, providing more data supporting the C.I.A.’s warnings. Still, the alarm bells didn’t sound.'
He says that America has been borrowing $2 Billion a day from the Chinese, and have been for the last ten years. Is that not true?
if the Chinese gov't purchased 2 billion dollars of treasury securities a day for 10 years they would own 7.3 trillion dollars worth if my math is correct. I believe they only hold ~1.7 trillion in securities. We have borrowed ~9 trillion the last 10 years. That is 2.5 billion dollars a day total if my math is correct.
Not sure where that number comes from, but it sure seems like we do not borrow 2 billion dollars a day from the Chinese nor have we for 10 years.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
He says that America has been borrowing $2 Billion a day from the Chinese, and have been for the last ten years. Is that not true?
if the Chinese gov't purchased 2 billion dollars of treasury securities a day for 10 years they would own 7.3 trillion dollars worth if my math is correct. I believe they only hold ~1.7 trillion in securities. We have borrowed ~9 trillion the last 10 years. That is 2.5 billion dollars a day total if my math is correct.
Not sure where that number comes from, but it sure seems like we do not borrow 2 billion dollars a day from the Chinese nor have we for 10 years.
I caught that as well but haven't researched it. The reason it struck me was that when everyone was screaming about the national debt and screaming about how the Chinese owned us, I saw a chart that listed the countries that owned US debt. If my memory serves, it was still mostly owned by EU nations, Great Britain, Canada and Japan. While China's dollar amount sounds big and scary, it was a small percentage of the total. I'll see if I can find it.
Here it is and I was off. My memory is getting worse. "Other foreign nations" own 19% of the total while China and Japan own 8% and 7% respectively. Mikepegg you weren't too far off with China owning $1.3 Trillion
I can't watch the video at this time, but have been reading the comments here.
I think it is true that it's human nature to want to consume. I do think that America is certainly one of the leaders in this area. It's like anything good in life...once you get some, you want more.
It's not human nature. It's learned behaviour. It's something the advertising industry feeds on. But we're not born with an urge to consume. It's a cultural thing - a modern cultural thing. You don't see tribal societies plundering their environments and hording stuff they don't need.
Fighting over hunting land doesn't constitute human nature. It was a practical necessity. Either way, protecting your land isn't the same thing as consumerism. In the past people fought to survive - they fought over the necessities of life. Now we horde stuff that we don't need. And this hording is mostly encouraged and engineered by the advertising and marketing industries.
Comments
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Chris Hedges isn't talking about particular individuals, but the country as a whole - the general population, or the larger culture or society; call it what you will. We all contribute something to the present day illusions that sustain our modern World though, right? We all spend a lot of time on the internet, distract ourselves with movies, and music, and maybe t.v. Most of us are completely disconnected from the natural World, and from the impact our consumer culture is having on the wider environment.
Here's where you reeaaaaaallllllly need to listen: I am pointing out the hypocrisy that exists within you. I pointed it out before in other threads and I am pointing it out again, now in this thread... because... as you are currently doing... you refuse to acknowledge that, whether justified or not, you have a very unflattering view of America that leaves very little room for acknowledging the reality that there are many more good American people than bad (although you did say neither do I to the point I raised about not all Americans being responsible for the problems with America... it must have been hard for you).
You might wish to take note, Byrnzie, how I 'succinctly' framed this for you. I never went to the Guardian and puked a 12 page essay, nor have I submitted and hour and five minute video for people to spend their day on trying to make myself seem impressive.
To the thread topic if you dare... as I asked before... what's the solution? Lamenting the problems that we know exist has been done before by many people. Dispersing knowledge is an important component of a change effort, but there needs to be much more.
How does a country like the US correct the corporate takeover that appears to have seized it? Who is the person to lead such a change effort? Is it reality to think change is even possible... or is this simply a case of a crumbling empire- such as Rome- being destroyed by decadence and greed?
You have offered the piece and if your intent was to spread the word... well done. I'm sure there are at least 20 people who have sat through the entire video on this forum. If you really want people's attention... and for some really good discussion... let's hear your ideas on what needs to occur for a correction to happen.
It seems like all people do nowadays is equivocate...everyone is afraid to say something concrete or "paint with a broad brush"
Is there a line anywhere?
For example, when someone becomes indignant after watching people in China abuse tigers... are you saying we should understand the context for which they refer to the Chinese as 'savages' and allow the comment to stand unchallenged or unqualified?
... or when someone becomes enraged watching a public stoning of a woman buried chest high as per Sharia Law... are you saying we should understand the context for which they refer to the Muslims as 'animals' and allow the comment to stand unchallenged or unqualified?
... or when someone becomes depressed watching a video of a Norwegian whaling ship... are you saying we should understand the context for which they refer to the Norwegians as 'scum' and allow the comment to stand unchallenged or unqualified?
I only spoke to what appeared to me to be 'selectiveness' with regards to whom one might choose to categorize. I was not speaking to anything else.
Once again... this thread gets mired into a side discussion. It's probably my fault. Sorry.
I asked questions of Byrnzie relevant to the thread discussion that I think are meaningful questions.
I'll ask again given that they are buried now underneath petty squabbling and nobody has summoned the energy to give it a shot:
Lamenting the problems that we know exist has been done before by many people. Dispersing knowledge is an important component of a change effort, but there needs to be much more. What's the solution?
How does a country like the US correct the corporate takeover that appears to have seized it? Who is the person to lead such a change effort? Is it reality to think change is even possible... or is this simply a case of a crumbling empire- such as Rome- being destroyed by decadence and greed and eroding from within?
If you're interested, I've just finished reading a pretty amazing book on this subject: http://www.amazon.com/The-Spell-Sensuous-Perception-More-Than-Human/dp/0679776397/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400121556&sr=8-1&keywords=the+spell+of+the+sensuous As far as I can see, the solution can only lie within each individual. Maybe begin by venturing outside more often. Also, buying less stuff. Walking, hiking, and reading (. Here's another one - I've ordered it, but not read it yet, but it's a bestseller in France, and looks good: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1781682704/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
...the outdoors life, environmental activism, and an effort to understand that so-called 'primitive cultures and societies' are not as primitive as we like to think, and that they possess valuable knowledge - knowledge that's looking more and more likely to be intrinsic to our survival.
Peace
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I'll read the article tomorrow. Books are backlogged right now- adding another one to the queue would be contributing to the problem we are talking about! I'll check them out anyways- thanks for the recommendation.
I agree that in the short term and micro scale, people need to begin to simplify- including myself.
As one can surmise, fixing the problem on the grand scale is going to require something dramatic. A complete overhaul is necessary and the forces opposing such a change effort are not going to be very receptive to such a movement.
The earth might need a natural disaster to facilitate the changes necessary to move away from corporatism.
I believe this too. The Earth will hit back at some point. It won't be pretty, but it will be necessary.
I think it is true that it's human nature to want to consume. I do think that America is certainly one of the leaders in this area. It's like anything good in life...once you get some, you want more.
I do also agree that this is not sustainable and we need to find a balance before a complete collapse. I know that I have times in my life where I am certainly part of the problem. My house is bigger than I need...I buy more "stuff" than I need...and I do at times get the itch to buy more to get that happy feeling that someone mentioned here. It's pretty obvious to me that it is human nature that is then influenced more by our environment....commericals, TV, all media really.
We do need to gradually scale back and change the thought of what is good. I think the whole idea of appearing successful to others is a big part of the problem. We need to build self esteem through more than possessions.
I'll check out the video when I can.
Basically, we fucked it up for everybody.
So there will be surely be a kind of ironic justice at work when the British Isles becomes one of the first places to disappear under the sea, as it's predicted to do, as a result of global warming and rising sea levels.
One thing that struck me was how the NSA and their apologists keep trotting the same line about how they're concerned with protecting Americans, and how 9/11 could have been prevented if they'd had better technology, and the ability to access everyone's information.
This is bullshit.
I'm surprised there was zero mention of the 6th August 2001 Presidents daily briefing memo entitled '“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”
They had the info then, and they deliberately ignored it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=1&
'...Operatives connected to Bin Laden, one reported on June 29, expected the planned near-term attacks to have “dramatic consequences,” including major casualties. On July 1, the brief stated that the operation had been delayed, but “will occur soon.” Some of the briefs again reminded Mr. Bush that the attack timing was flexible, and that, despite any perceived delay, the planned assault was on track.
Yet, the White House failed to take significant action. Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else.
That same day in Chechnya, according to intelligence I reviewed, Ibn Al-Khattab, an extremist who was known for his brutality and his links to Al Qaeda, told his followers that there would soon be very big news. Within 48 hours, an intelligence official told me, that information was conveyed to the White House, providing more data supporting the C.I.A.’s warnings. Still, the alarm bells didn’t sound.'
Not sure where that number comes from, but it sure seems like we do not borrow 2 billion dollars a day from the Chinese nor have we for 10 years.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/who-holds-our-debt/
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I think you are wrong that it's not human nature.
Big difference.