Chris Hedges: Americans Are Living a Fantasy

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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    Byrnzie said:


    They didn't fight over hunting land, etc?

    I think you are wrong that it's not human nature.


    Fighting over hunting land doesn't constitute human nature. It was a practical necessity. Either way, protecting your land isn't the same thing as consumerism. In the past people fought to survive - they fought over the necessities of life. Now we horde stuff that we don't need. And this hording is mostly encouraged and engineered by the advertising and marketing industries.

    Big difference.

    There weren't any shipping malls is the only difference IMO. You could be right but I really think it is human nature and the way of most all nature to continue to spread and take more.

    hippiemom = goodness
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037



    There weren't any shipping malls is the only difference IMO. You could be right but I really think it is human nature and the way of most all nature to continue to spread and take more.

    That's right: There weren't shopping malls. And there wasn't t.v. And there wasn't mass advertising and marketing.
    As for human nature, and an innate tendency 'to spread and take more', how do you explain the fact that many indigenous peoples of the World have done nothing of the sort, over thousands of years?

  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    Byrnzie said:



    There weren't any shipping malls is the only difference IMO. You could be right but I really think it is human nature and the way of most all nature to continue to spread and take more.

    That's right: There weren't shopping malls. And there wasn't t.v. And there wasn't mass advertising and marketing.
    As for human nature, and an innate tendency 'to spread and take more', how do you explain the fact that many indigenous peoples of the World have done nothing of the sort, over thousands of years?

    But more of humanity has...even without all that stuff you mention.

    Every study has it's outliers.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014



    But more of humanity has...even without all that stuff you mention.

    Every study has it's outliers.

    That doesn't mean that it's human nature. Most of humanity has been hording material goods and engaging in mass-consumerism - buying things we don't need - for only about the past 100 years.

    So what happened to this 'natural instinct' to consume beyond our needs during the previous 30,000 years? Was it just lying dormant, waiting for the first WalMart to open?


  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    Byrnzie said:



    But more of humanity has...even without all that stuff you mention.

    Every study has it's outliers.

    That doesn't mean that it's human nature. Most of humanity has been hording material goods and engaging in mass-consumerism - buying things we don't need - for only about the past 100 years.

    So what happened to this 'natural instinct' to consume beyond our needs during the previous 30,000 years? Was it just lying dormant, waiting for the first WalMart to open?


    No they continued to take more territory. And in reality, it's not just humans.

    Look I'm not arguing that all that stuff (TV, ads, etc.) doesn't play a huge role in expanding this notion. Just that it plays off of human tendencies that already exist, it doesn't create them.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014


    No they continued to take more territory. And in reality, it's not just humans.

    Except we're not talking about territory. And even if we were, it's still debatable that it's in our nature to conquer more land. Human migration wasn't a result of greed, it was a result of necessity, as a result of changing environmental and climactic conditions. We're talking about consumerism of material goods - over-abundance of everything from clothes, to cars, to food, to electrical appliances. This isn't human nature, it's human stupidity.

    Look I'm not arguing that all that stuff (TV, ads, etc.) doesn't play a huge role in expanding this notion. Just that it plays off of human tendencies that already exist, it doesn't create them.

    So you think it's human nature to consume beyond our means? Even though we've only been doing so for the past 50-100 years at the most? Even though doing so is destructive to our environment and goes against every previously held notion of respect for, and co-existence with, the land?

    Are you really suggesting that the way we've been living for the past 50-100 years is representative of humans in general, going back 30,000 years? Or are you just making it up because it sounds convenient?

    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    You know Byrnzie I'm done talking this with you.

    "Making it up because it sounds convenient" really? Why can't you ever discuss anything without being so pompous?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • i_lov_iti_lov_it Posts: 4,007
    Byrnzie said:



    But more of humanity has...even without all that stuff you mention.

    Every study has it's outliers.

    That doesn't mean that it's human nature. Most of humanity has been hording material goods and engaging in mass-consumerism - buying things we don't need - for only about the past 100 years.

    So what happened to this 'natural instinct' to consume beyond our needs during the previous 30,000 years? Was it just lying dormant, waiting for the first WalMart to open?

    I see your point...But I think it has always been in Human Beings it just needed to brought out...and People being Hoarders that's always been there...They didn't have Mass-Consumerism back then because they didn't even know where there next Meal was going to come from and the Hide on there back was the only bit of Clothing they Had...Fast Forward to the 20th Century...TV gets Invented...WalMart and places like that come about then all of a Sudden Mass-Consumerism starts literally overnight so I don't think that is a Coincidence...Just a Thought.

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014
    Great, then there's no need for the advertising and marketing industries then. If it's human nature then those industries should be made obsolete, right?

    You really think that the purpose of human life on this planet is to horde shit that we don't need, and to destroy the environment in the process?
    Who taught you that? Let me guess...you learned that from watching t.v, and in glossy magazines?
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • i_lov_iti_lov_it Posts: 4,007
    edited June 2014
    Byrnzie said:

    Great, then there's no need for the advertising and marketing industries then. If it's human nature then those industries should be made obsolete, right?

    You really think that the purpose of human life on this planet is to horde shit that we don't need, and to destroy the environment in the process?
    Who taught you that? Let me guess...you learned that from watching t.v, and in glossy magazines?

    I think there will always be a Need for Advertising and Marketing a lot of Psychology goes into it and it's not going away anytime soon because People will always need how do I put it to be 'Encouraged' like I said in my PREVIOUS Statement it just needed to Brought out...But that's just a Thought.

    I couldn't tell you what the "Purpose" of Human Life is Survival?...If Hoarding and Mass-Consumerism has always been there and just needed to be 'Encouraged' then that's just the way it IS Personally I'm not a Hoarder and I don't like it as Much as you but everyone is Different not everyone is the Same...With no Disrespect intended You seem very MOTIVATED in "Correcting" Humans.
    Post edited by i_lov_it on
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014
    i_lov_it said:

    If Hoarding and Mass-Consumerism has always been there and just needed to be 'Encouraged' then that's just the way it IS

    Except there's no evidence to support your theory. Hoarding and mass consumerism is a modern cultural phenomenon. And It's not something people do in every culture either. And so there's zero evidence to prove that it's inherent in human nature. In fact, all the evidence proves the exact opposite to be the case. It's not human nature. It's an aberration that goes against all of our instincts, which maybe explains why we need multimillion $$$ advertising and marketing industries to convince us otherwise.

    I suppose you think it's called 'progress', right? Well, progress doesn't constitute raping and plundering the Earth in order to surround ourselves with distractions. That's not progress, and it's not human nature. It's not human nature to over-consume, it's human nature to be subject to addiction. And that's what mass consumerism is: an addiction. You buy something because it fulfills a short-term sense of gratification. But that feeling doesn't last very long, and so you then buy something else, ad-infinitum. And this cycle is encouraged and stimulated by the culture we live in - the modern Capitalist culture who's main engines are the entertainment, advertising and marketing industries.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,840
    Oh goodness
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Marketing targets human emotions, insecurities.......needing to feel special. Now are these inherent human needs. Well at least as long as we've told our children they are special.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited August 2014
    Byrnzie said:
    10:35 & 40.00

    Did anyone watch this? I'd like to hear what people think of it.

    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    "I've been reading Whitman, you know what he says, cheer up slaves, and horrify foreign despots, he means that's the attitude for the bard, the zen lunacy bard of old desert paths, see the whole thing is a world full of rucksack wanderers, Dharma bums refusing to subscribe to the general demand that they consume production and then have to work for the privilege of consuming, all that crap they didn't really want anyway such as refrigerators, tv sets, cars, at least new fancy cars, certain hair oils and deodorants and general junk you finally always see a week later in the garbage anyway, all of them imprisoned in a system of work, produce, consume, work, produce, consume, i see a vision of a great rucksack revolution thousands or even millions of young Americans wandering around with rucksacks." - Jack Kerouac - The Dharma Bums
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Chris Hedges on 'Empire of Illusion': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHle_turjes
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