higher powers that be, that's where i am. in fact, i have a large variety of beliefs so unusual i think a lot of folks would declare me mentally insane.
everything is alive
water
rocks
trees
grass, each blade part of a whole
our air is alive
how can this be?
for starters this planet is a god rolling around the galaxy just having a hoot of a time
also, we each are a god of sorts as is every life that ever existed or will exist
CHADWICK,
are you aware that this is all straight out of occult\esoteric tradition, or did you just come to this on your own? The planet being a "god", specifically. But the other stuff too. Alice Bailey, speaking for the Mystery Tradition, claims there are actually 7 Kingdoms of nature, there being two below the lowest we recognize. Things considered inanimate by modern man are considered to be "alive" in a real sense by the Mystery Schools (this includes minerals and atomic "life", and going even further, *light* itself is supposedly the very fabric\breath\spirit of god -- and if you look in to the implications of Quantum Physics' "Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser" experiment, this actually doesn't sound so goofy any more). Planets and the Sun (the sun specifically and in a big way) are all considered to be advanced forms of intelligent life that have lived enough times and mastered their own selves to such a high degree that they are now the larger visible parts of god's body ... and, in the case of the sun, they are in charge of organizing an entire solar system (and providing it with life sustaining light).
RATMANDO,
i think i made a preemptive answer to you question about how i arrived at a "belief" in "god". Check my other posts in this thread. I too have spent a fair share of my time as either agnostic, atheistic, or simply not caring. But now I'm back to a notion of "god".
I see that you have vacillated between "Christianity" and "new age" traditions in your life, and that you seem to think of them as opposites. Have you eve looked at the bible in light of what the esoteric\occult\mystery schools teach? Have you never seen similarities? Particularly, the writings of John are largely occult. The notion of god within in you when you have "accepted" "christ", and of "christ" actually being "the logos" -- he is talking about accepting and believing in the spark of god within you, your soul nature, which when both recognized and then actualized, impels you closer and closer to god. Much of the new testament reads as a metaphorical externalization of the initiatory process, and other parts fairly clearly reference directly occult traditions (for instance, "the seven spirits before the throne", seem pretty clearly to be "the seven rays" of occult "science").
Just wondering.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
higher powers that be, that's where i am. in fact, i have a large variety of beliefs so unusual i think a lot of folks would declare me mentally insane.
everything is alive
water
rocks
trees
grass, each blade part of a whole
our air is alive
how can this be?
for starters this planet is a god rolling around the galaxy just having a hoot of a time
also, we each are a god of sorts as is every life that ever existed or will exist
CHADWICK,
are you aware that this is all straight out of occult\esoteric tradition, or did you just come to this on your own? The planet being a "god", specifically. But the other stuff too. Alice Bailey, speaking for the Mystery Tradition, claims there are actually 7 Kingdoms of nature, there being two below the lowest we recognize. Things considered inanimate by modern man are considered to be "alive" in a real sense by the Mystery Schools (this includes minerals and atomic "life", and going even further, *light* itself is supposedly the very fabric\breath\spirit of god -- and if you look in to the implications of Quantum Physics' "Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser" experiment, this actually doesn't sound so goofy any more). Planets and the Sun (the sun specifically and in a big way) are all considered to be advanced forms of intelligent life that have lived enough times and mastered their own selves to such a high degree that they are now the larger visible parts of god's body ... and, in the case of the sun, they are in charge of organizing an entire solar system (and providing it with life sustaining light).
i am very much unaware of alice bailey & i am unaware of the seven kingdoms; however, these are my beliefs as they make sense to me & from reading pagan, native american indian & some white witch craft books. yes the sun is a god of sorts & or advanced intelligence as is the moon & all planets.
i believe in nature, soil, water, green, animals & fresh air & so on. we are a minority & laughed out of town. which is good, fine w/ me. town sucks ass anyhow
all in all, the powers that be, big business & government will most likely destroy this planet, i will be surprised if they do not
icelanders believe spirits dwell in boulders. when they build roads they go around the boulders that are in the way, they are not removed. boulders in the cities/towns (structures built around them) have names.
ratmondo:
you asked what led me to arrive at my current belief system?
i told you that i answered this previously but i will go one further:
lots of things.
quantum physics, astrophysics, the few extant writings of Tesla and his thoughts about "the ether", new age writing on "the ether", serendipitous life experiences, "coincidence", etc ...
here is one off the top: Consciousness without brain activity (page i got this video from) ... there are too many things I have encountered in my life (not necessarily personally, in fact, but at least i have encountered in text, or in video, etc) that point to the same conclusion indicated here ... this video shows a UVA Professor & Neurobehavioral Doctor speaking before the United Nations essentially acknowledging outright that materialism fails to answer certain recorded incidents involving "the brain" and consciousness. Essentially he says, "in certain recorded cases it is acknowledged by the scientific community that one can "think" without ANY brain function." Why?
If you ask me, and we aren't limiting ourselves to scientific terms only, it seems pretty clear that "the brain" is only a TOOL used by a NON-physical organism that inhabits a physical body. Consciousness EXISTS, period. It is not the product of "the brain". The brain is a mere TOOL, USED by "consciousness", which exists independently. Once you arrive at THAT conclusion, surely you can see the next leap one is encouraged to take?
???
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
ratmondo:
you asked what led me to arrive at my current belief system?
i told you that i answered this previously but i will go one further:
lots of things.
quantum physics, astrophysics, the few extant writings of Tesla and his thoughts about "the ether", new age writing on "the ether", serendipitous life experiences, "coincidence", etc ...
here is one off the top: Consciousness without brain activity (page i got this video from) ... there are too many things I have encountered in my life (not necessarily personally, in fact, but at least i have encountered in text, or in video, etc) that point to the same conclusion indicated here ... this video shows a UVA Professor & Neurobehavioral Doctor speaking before the United Nations essentially acknowledging outright that materialism fails to answer certain recorded incidents involving "the brain" and consciousness. Essentially he says, "in certain recorded cases it is acknowledged by the scientific community that one can "think" without ANY brain function." Why?
If you ask me, and we aren't limiting ourselves to scientific terms only, it seems pretty clear that "the brain" is only a TOOL used by a NON-physical organism that inhabits a physical body. Consciousness EXISTS, period. It is not the product of "the brain". The brain is a mere TOOL, USED by "consciousness", which exists independently. Once you arrive at THAT conclusion, surely you can see the next leap one is encouraged to take?
???
The brain is a tool used by a non physical organism that inhabits a physical body?
I understand that so little that I wish I had never read it.
The brain is a tool used by a non physical organism that inhabits a physical body?
I understand that so little that I wish I had never read it.
You don't understand it, or you don't agree with it?
I posted some videos (look up above) of actual professors and medical doctors who (if they don't go this far) at LEAST acknowledge that materialism itself fails to account for what we now know of how "consciousness" functions.
If the brain is not the cause of consciousness, but simply a tool used by consciousness, then what IS the cause of it?
The quote you take from me and essentially mock and call garbage (be honest with yourself, you are trashing me and my POV, "i understand so little, i wish i had never read it"? pretty much a "fuck you", but whatever) is an attempt to put this in to perspective. If the brain is simply a tool used by consciousness, then from whence does consciousness spring? Would you ascribe it to another organ? No. I'm telling you, modern medical science is beginning to acknowledge that ***the basis of consciousness is NON PHYSICAL***.
what does that imply to you?
The Mystery Schools (and the bible, if you can look through the language) tell you:
a. it comes from god
b. it is non-physical
c. it is universal (meaning it exists not just in your body but elsewhere in the universe)
d. it is permanent (the passing of a physical life does not mean the end of consciousness, refer up to points a,b and c)
a quote from the man in the second video i posted (who is a very real Medical Doctor engaged in research and founding new treatments for OCD based on non-mechanical non-materialist notions):
"When we see an elite, and it is an elite, an elite that controls essentially all the research money in science saying there is no such thing as moral truth, that science will not be related to religion.
If you believe in God, and you believe that there's an intrinsic order in the universe, and you believe that it's the role of science to try to pursue and understand better that order, you will be ostracized."
i'm comfortable with that notion.
Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm on
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The brain is a tool used by a non physical organism that inhabits a physical body?
I understand that so little that I wish I had never read it.
You don't understand it, or you don't agree with it?
I posted some videos (look up above) of actual professors and medical doctors who (if they don't go this far) at LEAST acknowledge that materialism itself fails to account for what we now know of how "consciousness" functions.
If the brain is not the cause of consciousness, but simply a tool used by consciousness, then what IS the cause of it?
The quote you take from me and essentially mock and call garbage (be honest with yourself, you are trashing me and my POV, "i understand so little, i wish i had never read it"? pretty much a "fuck you", but whatever) is an attempt to put this in to perspective. If the brain is simply a tool used by consciousness, then from whence does consciousness spring? Would you ascribe it to another organ? No. I'm telling you, modern medical science is beginning to acknowledge that ***the basis of consciousness is NON PHYSICAL***.
what does that imply to you?
The Mystery Schools (and the bible, if you can look through the language) tell you:
a. it comes from god
b. it is non-physical
c. it is universal (meaning it exists not just in your body but elsewhere in the universe)
d. it is permanent (the passing of a physical life does not mean the end of consciousness, refer up to points a,b and c)
I admit that I did not look at the video until after I posted that. I read that one line 6 times and couldn't wrap my brain around it. But, I was not mocking you or trashing your view. I honestly didn't understnd it.
I admit that I did not look at the video until after I posted that. I read that one line 6 times and couldn't wrap my brain around it. But, I was not mocking you or trashing your view. I honestly didn't understnd it.
No worries.
Ours is a crazy world.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I won't (can't) speak for chadwick, but I will say that his spirit and soul are huge and loving - and intolerant of all forms of bullshit
He's what I'd consider a fine, solid human being.
aw crap, I don't want to sound like I don't like ya Chadwick... I've been digging your posts for awhile, and admire you for all you do..so not really saying that you're anything other than a cool person who does things in a great way and is a kind heart person.. not saying I don't dig you or where you are coming from..just that I come from a place where I don't say science answers all, as I don't think we'll ever figure out all the science we ever need to figure all, or any of that. Just ... I'll shut up now :oops:
When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest.
I think science is slowly coming to a reckoning with the notion that what holds true at the microcosm holds true for the macrocosm. This is the old truism of the Masons, "as above so below" brought in to the 21st century.
Specifically, i am saying (and what Henry Stapp says in his chat with Chopra in link in my last post above) that the quantum mechanical notion of "a wave of probability" is just as true for a photon as it is for you and I and the universe at large. Just as a photon can, in very real quantum terms, be said to not exist as a single entity at a single location in time, but instead as an infinite multitude of photon-probabilities in an infinite multitude of positions ... SO TOO CAN YOUR LIFE, and THE PATH YOUR LIFE TAKES be thought of not as a single life in a single location in time, but instead as an infinite multitude of life-probabilities in an infinite multitude of states.
And, going even further, what I am (and I believe what Henry Stapp is) suggesting is that just like how the original Copenhagen-school quantum physicists DID admit the function of the MIND as observer AFFECTING THE POSITION OF LIGHT, so to can your mind affect the position of your LIFE.
What you think affects not just how you perceive your day and your perceived emotional state, IT, IN VERY REAL QUANTUM TERMS, SEEMS TO ACTUALLY DICTATE HOW YOUR DAY WILL ***ACTUALLY*** GO.
Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm on
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Very good reads...and videos... I think we're more alike than not.
I think this thread is showing me exactly why I kind of think of PJ fans as a unit of togetherness. I was curious to see if people were of a similar mindset and what I'm learning is that even though we have different titles, different approaches, differing developments to our conscious and conscience beings... we all seem to have an understanding that things are bigger than we are, always will be, and who we are as humans, no matter where that understanding lies, truly embraces a synergy... maybe our connection with music that we love so much, via lyrics, meaning to our own lives, sounds and the emotive manner that they are evolving through this music-- It just feels that there are wiser souls who are drawn to it, and who are ready to impart knowledge, and I don't think I've met a single dickwad, self-centered troll, or even anyone who has anything other than coolness to them here. I've never really hung on to any social media site, but this one seems to live. Really live.
When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest.
either we will all see "god" or none of us will
either every single second, every single atom of hydrogen was organized from the beginning so that while you think you are making decisions and it was all programmed 14ish billion years ago
or "god" only gave each universe potential and we'll just flounder around until it's over
or (i have a hard time believing) it is all meangingless
fuck 'em if they can't take a joke
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
either we will all see "god" or none of us will
either every single second, every single atom of hydrogen was organized from the beginning so that while you think you are making decisions and it was all programmed 14ish billion years ago
or "god" only gave each universe potential and we'll just flounder around until it's over
or (i have a hard time believing) it is all meangingless
Sometimes I reach to myself, hear (here?) god.
Maybe god is subjective. Maybe it's a sense. Maybe it's tangible.
I don't know...but how can it - anything - be all or none? No black or white.
I do know that for me, it's not either/or; can't be. Maybe in the overall picture, I've been floundering? I don't think so though. Life isn't meaningless. It's precious and while I believe in serendipity and...I don't know, some sense of a meant-to-be-ness in some aspects...I think life is as meaningful as we choose to make it, and live it.
My favorite high school teacher rambled repeatedly about both Campbell and Jung, and it piqued my interest enough to read The Hero's Journey (it's been a long time since then).
I think Campbell had a very keen understanding of the universal nature of the mystical process.
"The monomyth" is really just a polite name for the initiatory or religious experience.
It is the process that all mystics (any who have "made contact", whether recognized as "mystics" or otherwise) go through. It really shouldn't be a surprise that it is reflected with relative symmetry across cultures, because the process is the same across space and time. Man leads a normal life, one that is often lacking in some form. Man is provided with some impetus to explore his own nature and his world. Man battles with his own nature, with an external force, or both. Man comes to attainment of a profound knowledge. Man then takes this profound knowledge and uses it to the benefit of his normal daily life.
I think there are extra steps in Campbell's journey that probably are not universal, but the core of the Hero's Journey reads like a cut and paste from an occult textbook. I'm not sure if he ever was aware of that (though i'm pretty damn sure Jung was).
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
well i suppose you are admitting to there being a god in existence then
well done, catefrances
we each are a powerful creature. thing is, we are buried under a metric shit ton of everything negative, propaganda, brainwashing & so on; including laziness & boredom
I am also an openly devout Atheist.... Although I really don't feel like anyone cares, except when I offer that info to those people at the malls and train stations who stand there trying to convert people. When the approach me I also very politely say, "Oh, thank you, but I'm an Atheist." And they always look horrified and really really sad for me at the same time. But generally, I think that Atheism is WAY more accepted in Canada than it is in the US. I know that a lot of Americans still think of Atheists as being against America in a way, and are not to be trusted. That's pretty fucked up.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I am also an openly devout Atheist.... Although I really don't feel like anyone cares, except when I offer that info to those people at the malls and train stations who stand there trying to convert people. When the approach me I also very politely say, "Oh, thank you, but I'm an Atheist." And they always look horrified and really really sad for me at the same time. But generally, I think that Atheism is WAY more accepted in Canada than it is in the US. I know that a lot of Americans still think of Atheists as being against America in a way, and are not to be trusted. That's pretty fucked up.
I am also an openly devout Atheist.... Although I really don't feel like anyone cares, except when I offer that info to those people at the malls and train stations who stand there trying to convert people. When the approach me I also very politely say, "Oh, thank you, but I'm an Atheist." And they always look horrified and really really sad for me at the same time. But generally, I think that Atheism is WAY more accepted in Canada than it is in the US. I know that a lot of Americans still think of Atheists as being against America in a way, and are not to be trusted. That's pretty fucked up.
:?
never heard of this
can you provide this info?
These are the first couple of things I grabbed in a quick search. There is more.
thank you, pj_soul. i will read through those links
let me ask you & anyone who cares to share their belief/understanding
what do you all believe?
the bearded man in the clouds behind a golden gate? that is a fairy tale in my opinion
do you believe this planet is a mystical place? do you believe that when we die there is eternal darkness/nothing
please give some detail if you can as i am quite interested in your belief systems/understanding
I'm with you that the whole bearded master with a pointy finger isn't accurate. I also understand the idea that religions themselves are more forms of government, and always have been. Edicts and boogie men to provide a matter of control over others.. that's what I think of most religions. (most, not all...)
I think Christopher Hitchens and Dr. Richard Dawkins writings are both wonderful for explaining Atheists and why we are who we are. The Watchtower, by Dawkins is a sort of "athesit bible". You an see some of Dawkins videos and how he explains things are just beauitiful. We lost Hitch to cancer not too long ago-- we were friends to both, so it was a hard hit. We have his portrait in our hallway so people see him as they come and go, much like others would have religious icons in their halls.
Freethought Societies, and James Randi's JREF.org are great places to learn about who we are and why. Each year there's something called The Amazing Meeting, (TAM), put on by James Randi's Educational Foundation, and there's some sort of misunderstanding I've found through non-Atheists- we do have communities, and we do get together. It's human nature to want to find others who have similar comprehensions about life.
My personal philosophy is the more I know about people, the more I learn about music. Music to me is a very powerful way of communicating. An example of the strength of it, and how it binds us-- on EVs solo tour, he plays Arc, layering and layering sounds in honor of those who have died and it becomes incredibly primal, with a hum so deep and roaring that the entire venue shakes with it...then it slowly ebbs back to silence. The same feeling I got came from hearing the Tibetan monks singing at Calarts when I was a student there..the throat singing, started so slowly, quietly, until the chanting is just all there is in the world and you are not where you are, but where you need to be, and for the two hours it went on, I swear it felt just like seconds. I get that same feeling when I hear the harmonics of the Bulgarian Women Folk Choir. Anytime I feel I guess what others may call spiritual...it's all music related. That's when I feel most connected and grounded with others and time and space.
When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest.
I believe in a higher power, but I don't know or care what it is. I just know it's there. Let's just say that when you feel a greater force saving you when circumstances should have killed you, one has no better way to describe it.
Ratmando - I have agood portion of response to your last post saved for revision and later posting, but can you please give me some guidance on another point.
I have not read much / if any popular modern atheistic writings (unless you count old Bertrand Russell essays) but can you fill me in from what you seem to have read of the greater minds of your point of view ...
What is their opinion on consciousness? I can hazard a guess they chalk it all up to electrochemical happenstance, and rationalize it away as nothing of great ulterior meaning, but I would like to hear your more eloquent paraphrasing of their notions.
To me, that is the mot difficult stumbling block to accepting an atheistic world view. having read so much esoteric (what you may call) garbage ... I believe I have been thoroughly indoctrinated and convinced of the belief that the origins of consciousness could ONLY be non-physical. The notion of it being simply a facade or autonomic response to stimulus seems like garbage to me. I believe people have original thoughts and emotions. I believe great thinkers and geniuses bring something to the physical world that is not already there, that is original, the product of free will, and that is the emanation of a non-physical being. In short I think sentience and consciousness are direct evidence of the non-physical backbone of life. That it exists absent physical form.
I also believe, as the esoteric schools claim (Alice bailey states this verbatim) that "science is on the verge of discovering and recognizing the existence of the ether." Tesla already did recognize "it", and quite frankly, Einstein in his 1920 speech came right back to it himself. That frank admission, from the man who so long denied it, should have sent shockwaves across the scientific community, but instead it seems to have been buried.
Why is that important? Because the ether is not "stuff". at least not a stuff that we can currently detect or measure. it is the very fabric of "empty" space-time itself. (read that again, it isnt the empty fabric of space alone. it is the fabric of space-TIME ... it is mighty strange indeed). Because it would seem that the ether functions as the barrier or "ring-pass-me-not" for "non-stuff" to become stuff. Everything that we know of the physical world is suspended in and emanating from the ether. Not only is it the carrier of light (einsteins own admission) but according to Tessa's only extant writings, it seems inextricably linked to gravity itself. This all hints at something beyond our current materialist comprehension. I suspect that is largely why recognition of the ether has been suppressed and why modern science is insistent on thinking of space as (at worst) "empty vacuum" and at "best" to be made up largely of "dark matter" (a semantic cover up for ether. See? If you call it dark MATTER the materialist paradigm is maintained. Call it ether as Einstein and tesla surely knew, and the lid flies off fast!)
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Again, I think we're on the same page, just using different books. I can't speak for those of whom I admire, but I can surmise my own experiences based on their works. My entire life has been an embracing of art in all forms, primarily music, and fine art. In both music and art, negative space is of the same importance, if not more so than creations in the negative space. This also becomes true when I relive the part of my life when dance was a daily part. The motions between the sound, the thud of a dancers foot falling in silence in a theater, all of this created a whole new response depending upon the length, the depth of the negative space- be it size of theater, or sound or the physical characteristics of the one dancing.
I'm also, as stated in the first post, a non-"believer" in converting by pounding my thoughts into someone else's head, or assuming another's beliefs are wrong-- just different than mine. Therefore, I can't possibly assume or even accept that what someone else thinks is stupid, or garbage, if you will. Life would be very boring if everyone were a robotic version of each other, all thinking the same, and responding the same, based on one vision.
I don't believe in the idea of a god. That's what atheism is...absence of gods. A deist believes in a god, but not exactly pinpointing what god, yet understands godly things whether Talmud, bible, or other tomes. Agnostics believe there is a bigger thing out there, god or not. A humanist, what I identify with most, believes that people are responsible for choices, and their choices are reflected in the world around them.
I'm very interested in Tesla, and in fact, Nikolai wrote a few great pieces on the failures of disproving the negative-- which is impossible, according to not only him but other major minds in science. It's extraordinary what happened to him in his life, in that living so many years under the watching eye of the Russian motherland which wouldn't allow him to continue his work...he's an amazing man to study.
I don't see science as a god- again, I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in following religions simply because I don't like to add an additional governing body to my freedom loving nature. I most identify with many Native American understandings of religion, and with many teachings of Buddhist monks, (Being Nothing Going Nowhere-- a long read, or if you want a Sacred Warrior version, as a shorter read). I find it more loving to give a homeless guy a cup of coffee than to pretend he doesn't exist. I find it more human to hold the hand of a senior citizen at a bus stop than watch her shake in the cold at night. I've been this way since childhood. I'm not a saint.. (pun for fun)... by any means. In my 20's I could be the biggest tramp on the planet one minute, and buying doughnuts for everyone in a coffee shop the next.
I love Einstein's quote- "Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds". It's one of my favorites for the simple reason-- my thoughts aren't any truer than anyone else's, they're just true for me. And everyone else has thoughts that are true for them; belittling another for being themselves is the anti-me. Penn Jillette says, "You can't blame the victim". I don't think of those who have gods as victims-- I think of them as understanding the world on their own terms.
How does this fit in with conscience and sentience in being? I used to wear,"I"m JUST getting a PAP SMEAR" t-shirt when I went to planned parenthood. It was part joke, and part deeply painful to me that others assumed my actions were other than health related...as if it was theirs to decide? Babies can't care for themselves, we have to choice to care for them. I can't have kids, anyway, so I couldn't tell you as a parent where my understandings are by watching a baby grow and become who they are by personality. (My work with animals shows me that personalities are formed fairly quickly...but I don't know if this is true for humans.. never had a way to find that out.)
As a teacher, though, I've watched people go from just following the road as the people before them had, to discovering new roads exist, and could be created.. to me that's a thrilling part of being an educator. But a good teacher lets students discover things-- and discoveries can't be made if only one option is offered. In fact, a better teacher asks what the students discover on their own. I taught college students how to communicate with video. I'm always floored by things they came up with...they are powerful beings in their own right. My job was to teach them to use the tools. They created as they wanted to, and that's a nice paradigm for childhood to adult hood. My tools were always based on freedoms, and I elected to use them to create art, music, writing... whereas my sister used them to create units of areas in her life she could control- - same back grounds, different productions in life.
When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest.
Comments
CHADWICK,
are you aware that this is all straight out of occult\esoteric tradition, or did you just come to this on your own? The planet being a "god", specifically. But the other stuff too. Alice Bailey, speaking for the Mystery Tradition, claims there are actually 7 Kingdoms of nature, there being two below the lowest we recognize. Things considered inanimate by modern man are considered to be "alive" in a real sense by the Mystery Schools (this includes minerals and atomic "life", and going even further, *light* itself is supposedly the very fabric\breath\spirit of god -- and if you look in to the implications of Quantum Physics' "Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser" experiment, this actually doesn't sound so goofy any more). Planets and the Sun (the sun specifically and in a big way) are all considered to be advanced forms of intelligent life that have lived enough times and mastered their own selves to such a high degree that they are now the larger visible parts of god's body ... and, in the case of the sun, they are in charge of organizing an entire solar system (and providing it with life sustaining light).
RATMANDO,
i think i made a preemptive answer to you question about how i arrived at a "belief" in "god". Check my other posts in this thread. I too have spent a fair share of my time as either agnostic, atheistic, or simply not caring. But now I'm back to a notion of "god".
I see that you have vacillated between "Christianity" and "new age" traditions in your life, and that you seem to think of them as opposites. Have you eve looked at the bible in light of what the esoteric\occult\mystery schools teach? Have you never seen similarities? Particularly, the writings of John are largely occult. The notion of god within in you when you have "accepted" "christ", and of "christ" actually being "the logos" -- he is talking about accepting and believing in the spark of god within you, your soul nature, which when both recognized and then actualized, impels you closer and closer to god. Much of the new testament reads as a metaphorical externalization of the initiatory process, and other parts fairly clearly reference directly occult traditions (for instance, "the seven spirits before the throne", seem pretty clearly to be "the seven rays" of occult "science").
Just wondering.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
i am very much unaware of alice bailey & i am unaware of the seven kingdoms; however, these are my beliefs as they make sense to me & from reading pagan, native american indian & some white witch craft books. yes the sun is a god of sorts & or advanced intelligence as is the moon & all planets.
i believe in nature, soil, water, green, animals & fresh air & so on. we are a minority & laughed out of town. which is good, fine w/ me. town sucks ass anyhow
all in all, the powers that be, big business & government will most likely destroy this planet, i will be surprised if they do not
icelanders believe spirits dwell in boulders. when they build roads they go around the boulders that are in the way, they are not removed. boulders in the cities/towns (structures built around them) have names.
neat...
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
you asked what led me to arrive at my current belief system?
i told you that i answered this previously but i will go one further:
lots of things.
quantum physics, astrophysics, the few extant writings of Tesla and his thoughts about "the ether", new age writing on "the ether", serendipitous life experiences, "coincidence", etc ...
here is one off the top:
Consciousness without brain activity (page i got this video from) ... there are too many things I have encountered in my life (not necessarily personally, in fact, but at least i have encountered in text, or in video, etc) that point to the same conclusion indicated here ... this video shows a UVA Professor & Neurobehavioral Doctor speaking before the United Nations essentially acknowledging outright that materialism fails to answer certain recorded incidents involving "the brain" and consciousness. Essentially he says, "in certain recorded cases it is acknowledged by the scientific community that one can "think" without ANY brain function." Why?
If you ask me, and we aren't limiting ourselves to scientific terms only, it seems pretty clear that "the brain" is only a TOOL used by a NON-physical organism that inhabits a physical body. Consciousness EXISTS, period. It is not the product of "the brain". The brain is a mere TOOL, USED by "consciousness", which exists independently. Once you arrive at THAT conclusion, surely you can see the next leap one is encouraged to take?
???
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I understand that so little that I wish I had never read it.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You don't understand it, or you don't agree with it?
I posted some videos (look up above) of actual professors and medical doctors who (if they don't go this far) at LEAST acknowledge that materialism itself fails to account for what we now know of how "consciousness" functions.
If the brain is not the cause of consciousness, but simply a tool used by consciousness, then what IS the cause of it?
The quote you take from me and essentially mock and call garbage (be honest with yourself, you are trashing me and my POV, "i understand so little, i wish i had never read it"? pretty much a "fuck you", but whatever) is an attempt to put this in to perspective. If the brain is simply a tool used by consciousness, then from whence does consciousness spring? Would you ascribe it to another organ? No. I'm telling you, modern medical science is beginning to acknowledge that ***the basis of consciousness is NON PHYSICAL***.
what does that imply to you?
The Mystery Schools (and the bible, if you can look through the language) tell you:
a. it comes from god
b. it is non-physical
c. it is universal (meaning it exists not just in your body but elsewhere in the universe)
d. it is permanent (the passing of a physical life does not mean the end of consciousness, refer up to points a,b and c)
a quote from the man in the second video i posted (who is a very real Medical Doctor engaged in research and founding new treatments for OCD based on non-mechanical non-materialist notions):
"When we see an elite, and it is an elite, an elite that controls essentially all the research money in science saying there is no such thing as moral truth, that science will not be related to religion.
If you believe in God, and you believe that there's an intrinsic order in the universe, and you believe that it's the role of science to try to pursue and understand better that order, you will be ostracized."
i'm comfortable with that notion.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Once in a lifetime
I admit that I did not look at the video until after I posted that. I read that one line 6 times and couldn't wrap my brain around it. But, I was not mocking you or trashing your view. I honestly didn't understnd it.
No worries.
Ours is a crazy world.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
aw crap, I don't want to sound like I don't like ya Chadwick... I've been digging your posts for awhile, and admire you for all you do..so not really saying that you're anything other than a cool person who does things in a great way and is a kind heart person.. not saying I don't dig you or where you are coming from..just that I come from a place where I don't say science answers all, as I don't think we'll ever figure out all the science we ever need to figure all, or any of that. Just ... I'll shut up now :oops:
Henry David Thoreau
If I opened it now would you not understand?
good share.
I think science is slowly coming to a reckoning with the notion that what holds true at the microcosm holds true for the macrocosm. This is the old truism of the Masons, "as above so below" brought in to the 21st century.
Specifically, i am saying (and what Henry Stapp says in his chat with Chopra in link in my last post above) that the quantum mechanical notion of "a wave of probability" is just as true for a photon as it is for you and I and the universe at large. Just as a photon can, in very real quantum terms, be said to not exist as a single entity at a single location in time, but instead as an infinite multitude of photon-probabilities in an infinite multitude of positions ... SO TOO CAN YOUR LIFE, and THE PATH YOUR LIFE TAKES be thought of not as a single life in a single location in time, but instead as an infinite multitude of life-probabilities in an infinite multitude of states.
And, going even further, what I am (and I believe what Henry Stapp is) suggesting is that just like how the original Copenhagen-school quantum physicists DID admit the function of the MIND as observer AFFECTING THE POSITION OF LIGHT, so to can your mind affect the position of your LIFE.
What you think affects not just how you perceive your day and your perceived emotional state, IT, IN VERY REAL QUANTUM TERMS, SEEMS TO ACTUALLY DICTATE HOW YOUR DAY WILL ***ACTUALLY*** GO.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I think this thread is showing me exactly why I kind of think of PJ fans as a unit of togetherness. I was curious to see if people were of a similar mindset and what I'm learning is that even though we have different titles, different approaches, differing developments to our conscious and conscience beings... we all seem to have an understanding that things are bigger than we are, always will be, and who we are as humans, no matter where that understanding lies, truly embraces a synergy... maybe our connection with music that we love so much, via lyrics, meaning to our own lives, sounds and the emotive manner that they are evolving through this music-- It just feels that there are wiser souls who are drawn to it, and who are ready to impart knowledge, and I don't think I've met a single dickwad, self-centered troll, or even anyone who has anything other than coolness to them here. I've never really hung on to any social media site, but this one seems to live. Really live.
Henry David Thoreau
either every single second, every single atom of hydrogen was organized from the beginning so that while you think you are making decisions and it was all programmed 14ish billion years ago
or "god" only gave each universe potential and we'll just flounder around until it's over
or (i have a hard time believing) it is all meangingless
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
Maybe god is subjective. Maybe it's a sense. Maybe it's tangible.
I don't know...but how can it - anything - be all or none? No black or white.
I do know that for me, it's not either/or; can't be. Maybe in the overall picture, I've been floundering? I don't think so though. Life isn't meaningless. It's precious and while I believe in serendipity and...I don't know, some sense of a meant-to-be-ness in some aspects...I think life is as meaningful as we choose to make it, and live it.
Henry David Thoreau
I think Campbell had a very keen understanding of the universal nature of the mystical process.
"The monomyth" is really just a polite name for the initiatory or religious experience.
It is the process that all mystics (any who have "made contact", whether recognized as "mystics" or otherwise) go through. It really shouldn't be a surprise that it is reflected with relative symmetry across cultures, because the process is the same across space and time. Man leads a normal life, one that is often lacking in some form. Man is provided with some impetus to explore his own nature and his world. Man battles with his own nature, with an external force, or both. Man comes to attainment of a profound knowledge. Man then takes this profound knowledge and uses it to the benefit of his normal daily life.
I think there are extra steps in Campbell's journey that probably are not universal, but the core of the Hero's Journey reads like a cut and paste from an occult textbook. I'm not sure if he ever was aware of that (though i'm pretty damn sure Jung was).
If I opened it now would you not understand?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
well done, catefrances
we each are a powerful creature. thing is, we are buried under a metric shit ton of everything negative, propaganda, brainwashing & so on; including laziness & boredom
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
yep I am... and im it.... for me, at least. just like every single one of us is our own god.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
:?
never heard of this
can you provide this info?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... e-distrust
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... reatening/
let me ask you & anyone who cares to share their belief/understanding
what do you all believe?
the bearded man in the clouds behind a golden gate? that is a fairy tale in my opinion
do you believe this planet is a mystical place? do you believe that when we die there is eternal darkness/nothing
please give some detail if you can as i am quite interested in your belief systems/understanding
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I think Christopher Hitchens and Dr. Richard Dawkins writings are both wonderful for explaining Atheists and why we are who we are. The Watchtower, by Dawkins is a sort of "athesit bible". You an see some of Dawkins videos and how he explains things are just beauitiful. We lost Hitch to cancer not too long ago-- we were friends to both, so it was a hard hit. We have his portrait in our hallway so people see him as they come and go, much like others would have religious icons in their halls.
Freethought Societies, and James Randi's JREF.org are great places to learn about who we are and why. Each year there's something called The Amazing Meeting, (TAM), put on by James Randi's Educational Foundation, and there's some sort of misunderstanding I've found through non-Atheists- we do have communities, and we do get together. It's human nature to want to find others who have similar comprehensions about life.
My personal philosophy is the more I know about people, the more I learn about music. Music to me is a very powerful way of communicating. An example of the strength of it, and how it binds us-- on EVs solo tour, he plays Arc, layering and layering sounds in honor of those who have died and it becomes incredibly primal, with a hum so deep and roaring that the entire venue shakes with it...then it slowly ebbs back to silence. The same feeling I got came from hearing the Tibetan monks singing at Calarts when I was a student there..the throat singing, started so slowly, quietly, until the chanting is just all there is in the world and you are not where you are, but where you need to be, and for the two hours it went on, I swear it felt just like seconds. I get that same feeling when I hear the harmonics of the Bulgarian Women Folk Choir. Anytime I feel I guess what others may call spiritual...it's all music related. That's when I feel most connected and grounded with others and time and space.
Henry David Thoreau
And I regularly question everything.
I have not read much / if any popular modern atheistic writings (unless you count old Bertrand Russell essays) but can you fill me in from what you seem to have read of the greater minds of your point of view ...
What is their opinion on consciousness? I can hazard a guess they chalk it all up to electrochemical happenstance, and rationalize it away as nothing of great ulterior meaning, but I would like to hear your more eloquent paraphrasing of their notions.
To me, that is the mot difficult stumbling block to accepting an atheistic world view. having read so much esoteric (what you may call) garbage ... I believe I have been thoroughly indoctrinated and convinced of the belief that the origins of consciousness could ONLY be non-physical. The notion of it being simply a facade or autonomic response to stimulus seems like garbage to me. I believe people have original thoughts and emotions. I believe great thinkers and geniuses bring something to the physical world that is not already there, that is original, the product of free will, and that is the emanation of a non-physical being. In short I think sentience and consciousness are direct evidence of the non-physical backbone of life. That it exists absent physical form.
I also believe, as the esoteric schools claim (Alice bailey states this verbatim) that "science is on the verge of discovering and recognizing the existence of the ether." Tesla already did recognize "it", and quite frankly, Einstein in his 1920 speech came right back to it himself. That frank admission, from the man who so long denied it, should have sent shockwaves across the scientific community, but instead it seems to have been buried.
Why is that important? Because the ether is not "stuff". at least not a stuff that we can currently detect or measure. it is the very fabric of "empty" space-time itself. (read that again, it isnt the empty fabric of space alone. it is the fabric of space-TIME ... it is mighty strange indeed). Because it would seem that the ether functions as the barrier or "ring-pass-me-not" for "non-stuff" to become stuff. Everything that we know of the physical world is suspended in and emanating from the ether. Not only is it the carrier of light (einsteins own admission) but according to Tessa's only extant writings, it seems inextricably linked to gravity itself. This all hints at something beyond our current materialist comprehension. I suspect that is largely why recognition of the ether has been suppressed and why modern science is insistent on thinking of space as (at worst) "empty vacuum" and at "best" to be made up largely of "dark matter" (a semantic cover up for ether. See? If you call it dark MATTER the materialist paradigm is maintained. Call it ether as Einstein and tesla surely knew, and the lid flies off fast!)
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I'm also, as stated in the first post, a non-"believer" in converting by pounding my thoughts into someone else's head, or assuming another's beliefs are wrong-- just different than mine. Therefore, I can't possibly assume or even accept that what someone else thinks is stupid, or garbage, if you will. Life would be very boring if everyone were a robotic version of each other, all thinking the same, and responding the same, based on one vision.
I don't believe in the idea of a god. That's what atheism is...absence of gods. A deist believes in a god, but not exactly pinpointing what god, yet understands godly things whether Talmud, bible, or other tomes. Agnostics believe there is a bigger thing out there, god or not. A humanist, what I identify with most, believes that people are responsible for choices, and their choices are reflected in the world around them.
I'm very interested in Tesla, and in fact, Nikolai wrote a few great pieces on the failures of disproving the negative-- which is impossible, according to not only him but other major minds in science. It's extraordinary what happened to him in his life, in that living so many years under the watching eye of the Russian motherland which wouldn't allow him to continue his work...he's an amazing man to study.
I don't see science as a god- again, I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in following religions simply because I don't like to add an additional governing body to my freedom loving nature. I most identify with many Native American understandings of religion, and with many teachings of Buddhist monks, (Being Nothing Going Nowhere-- a long read, or if you want a Sacred Warrior version, as a shorter read). I find it more loving to give a homeless guy a cup of coffee than to pretend he doesn't exist. I find it more human to hold the hand of a senior citizen at a bus stop than watch her shake in the cold at night. I've been this way since childhood. I'm not a saint.. (pun for fun)... by any means. In my 20's I could be the biggest tramp on the planet one minute, and buying doughnuts for everyone in a coffee shop the next.
I love Einstein's quote- "Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds". It's one of my favorites for the simple reason-- my thoughts aren't any truer than anyone else's, they're just true for me. And everyone else has thoughts that are true for them; belittling another for being themselves is the anti-me. Penn Jillette says, "You can't blame the victim". I don't think of those who have gods as victims-- I think of them as understanding the world on their own terms.
How does this fit in with conscience and sentience in being? I used to wear,"I"m JUST getting a PAP SMEAR" t-shirt when I went to planned parenthood. It was part joke, and part deeply painful to me that others assumed my actions were other than health related...as if it was theirs to decide? Babies can't care for themselves, we have to choice to care for them. I can't have kids, anyway, so I couldn't tell you as a parent where my understandings are by watching a baby grow and become who they are by personality. (My work with animals shows me that personalities are formed fairly quickly...but I don't know if this is true for humans.. never had a way to find that out.)
As a teacher, though, I've watched people go from just following the road as the people before them had, to discovering new roads exist, and could be created.. to me that's a thrilling part of being an educator. But a good teacher lets students discover things-- and discoveries can't be made if only one option is offered. In fact, a better teacher asks what the students discover on their own. I taught college students how to communicate with video. I'm always floored by things they came up with...they are powerful beings in their own right. My job was to teach them to use the tools. They created as they wanted to, and that's a nice paradigm for childhood to adult hood. My tools were always based on freedoms, and I elected to use them to create art, music, writing... whereas my sister used them to create units of areas in her life she could control- - same back grounds, different productions in life.
Henry David Thoreau