Any Other Happy Heathens?

ratmando

I''m a devout atheist, and I'm not one of the proselytizing annoying, YOU are STUPID if you AREN'T like ME people, because that makes me as buggy as the Mormons at the door, and the guy in the dress with the pointy hat telling me that my crotch is his business. :fp: It amazes me that when I tell people I'm atheist they don't just shrug it off, like I do when they tell me their idioms or preferred belief system. I even wrote a book for those of us who are grieving called Godless Grief, because I couldn't find one that didn't use the phrase, 'In a better place", or 'higher power' or some such. (Maybe that's why I love the song Light Years so much.)

Are there many other atheists here? Or Muslims or Islamists or.. those of us who confuse the masses because they don't quite know who we really are except what is assumed by the press or verbal history from family? How do you handle it? I'm a comedian, (seriously), so I usually make jokes, or play up their confusion. But I've seriously had to convince people that I'm NOT a person who sits around a pentagram and babbles to Satan or Santa giving curses and hoping for an apocalypse. (my husband does, but i don't)..(a joke...)(And yeah, I have had to tell people that too!)
how many of my lovely jamsters are happy heathens or other such folk?

hedonist

I'm pretty happy, possibly heathenistic :P ...and agnostic.

I've zero problem with those who believe, with those who don't, and with those who fall somewhere in between.

I think if folks are generally comfortable with their own beliefs (or lack thereof, as the case may be), they're less likely to lash out at or belittle others who see things from a different perspective.

Funny, when my father died - coming on five years now - god didn't even enter into it for me...and he was Jewish yet! On the one hand, it was about him being in a better place (cancer sucks bigtime) but on the other, there was no "why, god?". He knew, I knew, it was his time to go. If faith helped his wife to grieve, it's not my place to say it's wrong; it just wasn't for me.

(I also just googled your book - and website? - sounds interesting!)

ratmando

I'm working on the second version, includes suicide, military, and a special spot for those who grieve because we're not young anymore..HUGE issue ignored by a lot of books. (You want the older version, just pm your email addy, and I'll give it to you in pdf format.. it's not the one edited, but it's pretty much the same as it was when published.) Oh, my first publisher said it wasn't atheist enough..the second wanted it to be changed to the Catholic perspective! lol Talk about not getting it!?!

But yep, I'm in the same bus as you.... if you're not bugging me about it, and I'm not bugging you about it, what's the big deal? I do find it fascinating when people go loopy tho... figured other folks may have similar stories.

chadwick

higher powers that be, that's where i am. in fact, i have a large variety of beliefs so unusual i think a lot of folks would declare me mentally insane.

everything is alive
water
rocks
trees
grass, each blade part of a whole
our air is alive

how can this be?
for starters this planet is a god rolling around the galaxy just having a hoot of a time
also, we each are a god of sorts as is every life that ever existed or will exist

that's just the tip of the iceberg

we are not here by chance. this thing called life is unexplainable & beyond understanding. yet we seem to be bacteria buzzing around a petri dish

i dig buddhism & hinduism. those are some beautiful people with a deep love & connection with the earth & the spiritual side of everything

ajedigecko

chadwick wrote:

higher powers that be, that's where i am. in fact, i have a large variety of beliefs so unusual i think a lot of folks would declare me mentally insane.

everything is alive
water
rocks
trees
grass, each blade part of a whole
our air is alive

how can this be?
for starters this planet is a god rolling around the galaxy just having a hoot of a time
also, we each are a god of sorts as is every life that ever existed or will exist

that's just the tip of the iceberg

we are not here by chance. this thing called life is unexplainable & beyond understanding. yet we seem to be bacteria buzzing around a petri dish

Sweet summation



Infinite dreams

chadwick

ajedigecko wrote:

chadwick wrote:

higher powers that be, that's where i am. in fact, i have a large variety of beliefs so unusual i think a lot of folks would declare me mentally insane.

everything is alive
water
rocks
trees
grass, each blade part of a whole
our air is alive

how can this be?
for starters this planet is a god rolling around the galaxy just having a hoot of a time
also, we each are a god of sorts as is every life that ever existed or will exist

that's just the tip of the iceberg

we are not here by chance. this thing called life is unexplainable & beyond understanding. yet we seem to be bacteria buzzing around a petri dish

Sweet summation



Infinite dreams

infinite dreams for sure my friend

DriftingByTheStorm

Yeah.
I'm with Chadwick.
Actually, you could describe me as A Recovering Atheist
My dads family was Jewish, and my moms was catholic.
Neither of them was practicing, and were both rather atheistic.
Actually my dad, following his hero, Bertrand Russell, is probably more accurately agnostic.
I was raised being allowed to make up my own mind.
However when the subject came up, there was always a latent atheistic bias... Ie ... "Some people find comfort in that." Or "some people need to think that."

However, now in my thirties, I have experienced enough of life, and had enough of my own thoughts on the subject (and also read probably too much esoteric/new age stuff) to come to an appreciation of the grandeur of life, and a respect for "the god force", and the notion of an interconnected universe sharing one singular life breath with many individualized expressions. I also find it inherently hard to accept that physical life can exist devoid of some sort of "non physical" presence back of matter. Consciousness and the impulses and behaviors of not just man, but many forms of life, seem to hint at this fact repeatedly, if you only look. I also find route behavior, chance, and "survival of the fittest" to all be a poor basis for the evolutionary process as we think we know it. I find the notion of an inherently intelligent and striving soul to be far more accurate rationale for why sentient life behaves the way it does, and why it has and continues to evolve the way it has. Also, I find that atheists generally have a very poor excuse for a answer to the problem of the origins of life. Or of the universe, for that matter.

ratmando

I definitely feel like we're all connected... one of my favorite quotes:
Self reliance is impossible. Whether protozoa or grand universe a catalyst exists; weather, and even the unsought of "whether" creates variations to any certainties. There are no single entities, families, sects, societies, cities, countries, nationalities, species, continents, planets, or anything in any form that exists on a SOLE basis. To create war in ensuring ONE is basic and only a true form of the word futile. To create leaders to maintain direction for "self reliance" is nothing less than dangerously humorous, and certainly gravely inhumane. To RELY is to live. Anything else is to ensure loss of all and complete loss at that. - cbj

Smellyman

happy here.


Always strange to me being looked as the odd one for not believing in the puppet master in the sky.

ratmando

Does your location make it even more odd? I live in Las Vegas-- surprise- the second largest per capita for people of the Mormon faith- it was originally a "rest stop" for those going from Salt Lake City to California. (not much different except the toilets have slot machines now.) When one woman asked me to lunch one week, I said, I had Sunday free- she was shocked, "Well don't you go to brunch after church?" The part that shocked her is that I looked completely dead pan and asked her as if she was speaking a foreign language, "what's church?" The conversation got so confusing for her I finally had her comparing it to Deadheads who followed the band around... that I understood. :fp:

brianlux

ratmando wrote:

I definitely feel like we're all connected... one of my favorite quotes:
Self reliance is impossible. Whether protozoa or grand universe a catalyst exists; weather, and even the unsought of "whether" creates variations to any certainties. There are no single entities, families, sects, societies, cities, countries, nationalities, species, continents, planets, or anything in any form that exists on a SOLE basis. To create war in ensuring ONE is basic and only a true form of the word futile. To create leaders to maintain direction for "self reliance" is nothing less than dangerously humorous, and certainly gravely inhumane. To RELY is to live. Anything else is to ensure loss of all and complete loss at that. - cbj

Good quote. I'm too tired to figure it out- who is "cbj"?

Heathen? You might say I'm a part time heathen. For the most part I'm just good with knowing that some things are unanswerable. I just saw the excellent movie, "The Milagro Beanfield War". When Joe's very old father gets up one morning he looks in the mirror and says, "Thank you, God, for one more day." But the old man also talks to ghosts. He's not boxed in. That's the way I like things. No box, no label.

ratmando

cbj... could be jesus, called by jews, created by jello, cream baked jellyfish, (okay now it sounds like the new list for songs on LB) cathe boudreau jones. Its a favorite quote because it got a lot of people to stop arguing at a very large gathering of hateful people, and had a little kid, (er the cbj), make a bunch of adults wonder how an 8 year old figured that out....and got me kicked out of catechism. I found it again when I was going through the diaries I had as a child. This was in a story I wrote as a second grader... during busing, when a lot of people in my hometown of Boston were in dire need of waking up about the blatant silliness their racism was to a bunch of kids who were starting to see the world as a place where Julia could be a nurse on TV, and Captain Kirk could kiss Ohura, the Jeffersons could move on up, and Jay-Jay was kid Dyn-o-mite. Half the town was blaring epitaphs, and the other half was trying to figure out why the fighting was happening in the first place in a city of allegedly educated people from the finest universities, (Harvard, Wentworth, MIT, Tufts, etc), were not getting the basic principles that Sesame Street was feeding to the kids who were affected by the school bus issues directly.

Its been my life's philosophy- hate is dull, caring is much more useful, and can lead to more worthwhile directions in life. So CBJ- she was mini-me. I sometimes hope I can still think like her.

ajedigecko

...heathen?

On this internet site - i am the heathen. Or. A heathen.

hedonist

ajedigecko wrote:

...heathen?

On this internet site - i am the heathen. Or. A heathen.

Well...you're certainly welcome here

I like this thread.

DriftingByTheStorm

Ratmando - I saw you mention catechism, which makes me think you are one of those who had too much force fed Catholicism, and that turned you, not just against that particular religion, but against the entire notion of a living universe and the breath of god.
Yay or nay?

brianlux

I like your quote even more, ratmando (or cbj ) knowing it's orginal.

ratmando

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Ratmando - I saw you mention catechism, which makes me think you are one of those who had too much force fed Catholicism, and that turned you, not just against that particular religion, but against the entire notion of a living universe and the breath of god.
Yay or nay?

Surprisingly, nay. I was about six when I figured out that when I was praying I was talking to myself, but when I reached out to people, or within myself, things were much better for me. In high school, I went whole-hog bible thumping, and lived that way for about four years... really just profoundly upset that I didn't have a belief system and others did... but then at 20, when I realized for those years I was so deeply depressed, (as teens get), and started again to reach within for answers....life felt a whole lot better, and I felt like a more complete person-- I was clear on the concept in the bible that free will is what separates us from animals. ("When I was a child I .....then I became a man and removed childish thought")

I also went the whole other way- I mean 180-- and thought, well maybe it's the new age life that I'm really reaching out to, and for about a two year period, I tried to see the world as wiccans would, or as Buddhists would, and I truly identify with the Buddhist belief system, and I spent a couple of years living in a home with Native Americans, and discovered so many truths in their belief systems... and again realized that inside, whenI just was good to other people, and felt that i could find answers if I just discovered my own experiences led me to them... I realized and fully appreciated, I wasn't agnostic, I wasn't of any religious ideology, I was truly happy with the truth I have within me, that we are all we have, we are what makes things bad or good, and looking outside just prevents you from reaching in and finding the biggest powers you can possibly have-- again, free will, kindness, the ability to listen to others without judging them, and truly CARING for other people as you are able to... that's who I am.

I don't have any ties to anything outside of me to do this... I'm the only me I've got, and I'm pretty cool at being me, so why do I need to acknowledge some exterior force, some "guy in the sky", or "a better place", heaven and all that? I just don't get that feeling or need-- to me heaven is a day when my dog is on my lap wagging his tail. Or, maybe it's driving because I'm able to drive, (I'm disabled..or as the PC whacko's call me, alternatively abled.. I prefer the word "gimp" because it makes it less scary that I can't do things and people don't act as afraid of my limitations if they see I realize I'm here as I am, and do what I can... Stephen Hawking is as disabled as anyone and to me, he's the King Gimp, if you will.) Things in my life are going to go bad.. things in my life are going to be fine... everyone loses, everyone wins, some people are assholes by nature, and they're probably "evil", but they are who they are. Some people are sweet hearts, and very giving, and kind. But assholes and sweet hearts both can act opposite of their nature at times. It's just the human state.

Family members are also atheist, or if it is less scary to the outsiders we know, then the word "humanist" is used..but both really are the same.... once you see and feel how strong the human experience is.. who you are, who you have in your life, how you live, how you respond to others, how others respond to you.. and you get that it's all how you choose to behave.. you use that free will, you know that you have the responsibility of your actions, life becomes YOURS to life. And it specifically self-responsibility which I think a lot of religious stuff seems to distract others from, truly. That's why I think we're all connected.. self responsibility is the choice to understand that others need, want and feel, just as you do. Some people have brain chemical issues and just don't get that, they're sociopathic, or autistic or have other issues... but for those who don't... and have the capacity for self responsibility, and accept we are who we are... it's just so fulfilling to me, as just a dust speck in the universe.

I hope that clarifies why I'm who I am. Why is it you have a god in your life? Has it always been that way, or is it tradition or? That is something I'm fascinated by-- how people have reached their beliefs, and understandings of the world, and why is it a "outer force" that makes people feel better or safer as individuals.

grooveme

I'm Hindu, and also agnostic. Which is ok, I think

I think all religions have value when taken as guiding principles rather than as literal truth, to the exclusion of other belief systems. Unfortunately many of them are used to oppress women, nonbelievers, etc. and are used to enrich the clergy. Thus I do not care for organized religion as practiced these days. But I mostly keep that opinion to myself!

Hedonist I agree that those who are comfortable in their own beliefs are less likely to bash others.

The Christians I know who most act in what I would consider Christ-like ways are those who are quietest about their faith, and one of them is married to a Jewish guy. Those who are loudest seem often to be hypocritical in their behavior

grooveme

I should add that when I say "guiding principles" I mean principles to live your own life by, not to force on others!

ratmando

brianlux wrote:

I like your quote even more, ratmando (or cbj ) knowing it's orginal.

:wave: :thumbup:

ratmando

hedonist wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

...heathen?

On this internet site - i am the heathen. Or. A heathen.

Well...you're certainly welcome here

I like this thread.

It's interesting learning about human to human thinking, I like it too.

Gern Blansten

I guess I tend to refer to myself as agnostic but yeah....I don't believe any of that crap.

It doesn't take much research to see where christianity came from. As soon as I discovered that and took a few astronomy/anthropology/philosophy courses in college the transformation was complete for me. I was brought up Methodist but always listened in church to things that didn't seem any where near rational or possible.

chadwick

little science classes & labs do not & can not undergo the proper studies of spiritual belief. rational thought does not exist in someone's spiritual journey; possibility is endless in this realm

it is best to let it be & be concerned about yourself & how you can be a better person & to stop worrying about what whoever may or may not believe. help feed others who can not feed themselves. that is all i have to say

Gern Blansten

Disagree....we are made of star dust not god farts

ratmando

chadwick...the idea that someone who doesn't have a spiritual side as you may doesn't exclude them from wanting and doing things to help other people. If that's all you have to say, you're kind of missing the point... morals have nothing to do with spirituality, and everything to do with humanity. To say that I'm not someone who is out feeding people on the streets, (I actually got arrested for doing so in San Francisco where some mayor thought it would be wise to arrest anyone feeding the homeless), or to say I wouldn't help someone who lost their home build a new one and house them while doing so, or saying that my state of being is any different simply not a state of ACTION because of spirituality? You really aren't clear that I don't need, nor do many of us who feel as I do, to think we need some external force to be kind, loving,and actively out in the world making a difference. In my personal experience, every single day I leave the house, with my service dog, and visit other disabled veterans... because the dog is able to bring calm to scared men and women who are about to go through medical procedures at the local hospital. I do that daily. It's not enough to talk about how to change the world, you have to live it. I think we can both agree there? But, I accept to you, and your free will, and your understanding, this is something that's grounded in your spirit. To me, it's grounded in my human-ness.

Last-12-Exit

As Chadwick has stated in another thread, I don't like to be labeled, atheist or agnostic. I do not believe in god or a god or traveling souls in the afterlife.

hedonist

ratmando wrote:

chadwick...the idea that someone who doesn't have a spiritual side as you may doesn't exclude them from wanting and doing things to help other people. If that's all you have to say, you're kind of missing the point... morals have nothing to do with spirituality, and everything to do with humanity. To say that I'm not someone who is out feeding people on the streets, (I actually got arrested for doing so in San Francisco where some mayor thought it would be wise to arrest anyone feeding the homeless), or to say I wouldn't help someone who lost their home build a new one and house them while doing so, or saying that my state of being is any different simply not a state of ACTION because of spirituality? You really aren't clear that I don't need, nor do many of us who feel as I do, to think we need some external force to be kind, loving,and actively out in the world making a difference. In my personal experience, every single day I leave the house, with my service dog, and visit other disabled veterans... because the dog is able to bring calm to scared men and women who are about to go through medical procedures at the local hospital. I do that daily. It's not enough to talk about how to change the world, you have to live it. I think we can both agree there? But, I accept to you, and your free will, and your understanding, this is something that's grounded in your spirit. To me, it's grounded in my human-ness.

I won't (can't) speak for chadwick, but I will say that his spirit and soul are huge and loving - and intolerant of all forms of bullshit

He's what I'd consider a fine, solid human being.

Are human-ness and spirit all that different? I'm not so sure, when the roots are kindness, caring, giving.

Walking the walk.

Again, digging this thread; these varying (but not so different) viewpoints are good food.

josevolution

This is so strange someone here at work just asked me this and i said i don't believe in any God they precceded to tell me that i'm a satan lover , I said no I'm of this Earth actually i believe i came from the Sea ....

hedonist

josevolution wrote:

This is so strange someone here at work just asked me this and i said i don't believe in any God they precceded to tell me that i'm a satan lover , I said no I'm of this Earth actually i believe i came from the Sea ....

The oceans made me, but who came up with _______?

Speaking of that song, I think it kind of fits within the realm of this thread.

"I'm like an opening band for the sun"

Humility in our tininess...amongst the waves.

We really KNOW nothing - and that's fine - maybe we don't have to.

josevolution

hedonist wrote:

josevolution wrote:

This is so strange someone here at work just asked me this and i said i don't believe in any God they precceded to tell me that i'm a satan lover , I said no I'm of this Earth actually i believe i came from the Sea ....

The oceans made me, but who came up with _______?

Speaking of that song, I think it kind of fits within the realm of this thread.

"I'm like an opening band for the sun"

Humility in our tininess...amongst the waves.

We really KNOW nothing - and that's fine - maybe we don't have to.

I'm fine with not knowing

chadwick

hedonist wrote:

josevolution wrote:

This is so strange someone here at work just asked me this and i said i don't believe in any God they precceded to tell me that i'm a satan lover , I said no I'm of this Earth actually i believe i came from the Sea ....

The oceans made me, but who came up with _______?

Speaking of that song, I think it kind of fits within the realm of this thread.

"I'm like an opening band for the sun"

Humility in our tininess...amongst the waves.

We really KNOW nothing - and that's fine - maybe we don't have to.