It's comical that after 3 songs, people are proclaiming the new album to be the Titanic.
exactly my thoughts!
I've been thinking the same thing. They've literally played only 1/4 of the songs from the full album. And only one we've been able to listen to fully produced, as it will be heard on Lightning Bolt.
You may like all, some, or none of the new songs, but there are still 9 whole songs you (presumably) haven't heard yet in any form. We should wait until we hear at least a few more songs before making judgments, no? Or how about waiting until we hear the album in its entirety? But then again, what would we talk about...
I really like that BOB song they played at Wrigley. I thought the keyboard was nice.
1992 Tinley Park, 1995 Chicago (Mike Watt), 1995 Milwaukee, 1995 Chicago, 1998 Chicago, 1999 Tibetan Freedom Concert, 2000 Chicago, 2003 St Paul, 2003 Chicago, 2006 Chicago, 2006 St Paul, 2006 Los Angeles, 2009 Chicago 1, 2009 Chicago 2, 2011 Minneapolis (EV), 2011 East Troy 1, 2011 East Troy 2, 2013 Chicago, 2014 Moline, 2014 St Paul, 2016 Chicago 1, 2016 Chicago 2, 2016 Seattle (TOTH), 2018 Chicago 1, 2018 Chicago 2, 2022 Chicago (EV), 2022 St Louis
It's comical that after 3 songs, people are proclaiming the new album to be the Titanic.
Nope, it could surprise the hell out of me. It's just very much looking like a continuation of the heavy-ham-handed softness of a producer who, I would say, had a large role in ruining the band's last album.
As to the person who asked if I'm the same type of person who dislikes Binaural, etc. Nope, I quite like most of Binaural. Riot Act has some stuff I like, some I don't but I'm not calling out the producer on it. I can't seem to get many people to understand this isn't about mellow music. Weak songs can be fast, slow, heavy or soft. It's about a producer adding cheez whiz elements all over the place on studio efforts and now live performances of Pearl Jam. It's not a yearning for Pearl Jam of 20 years ago or anything like that. It's a yearning for production that lets the band's own music be the focus and about finding a producer who doesn't want to be an extra band member. It's about having a producer who understands his role is to produce the music of the band, not to feature himself with the band and even perform with them in place of their existing keyboardist. The more I look at this, the more I see a confused relationship and blurred boundaries that are having a detrimental impact on the music we're being delivered.
Another person asked how I could be sure the cheez whiz was the product of BOB. To be honest, I don't think all of it is. I think Ed's lyrics are suffering a bit lately from some cheez too. But that's not what my particular grievance in this post is about. I don't doubt that BOB is better on the keys than Boom. However, BOB is not a band member and is becoming more recognizable on Pearl Jam tracks lately to me than say Jeff. That's pretty screwed up if you ask me. I see that some here get what I'm trying to get across and agree and some either don't get what I'm talking about or like the cheez whiz, so I probably don't have much more to say on this particular matter.
If you can't hear the cheez whiz all over Backspacer and now on a song like Future Days, I really don't know what else to say to you. For those of us who can hear the cheez whiz, what I'm saying is that I was really stoked to not hear ANY of it on Mind Your Manners and then it came roaring back in as BOB came out on stage and performed Future Days. Anticipation and excitement instantly transformed to cringing and "dread." Will I be able to get over a shitty Pearl Jam album or more ham-fisted production from BOB? Sure. Do I want to have to? Nope.
Maybe this will help get my point across and maybe not... Vampires didn't sparkle until Twilight. Pearl Jam didn't tinkle until BOB made them.
Fact is, BOB is a far superior keyboardist than Boom.
Pearl Jam doesn't need a keyboardist, or an organ. Fact.
As a piano player, I disagree. :nono: I love songs with heavy keyboards/piano/organ, as long as it's done well.
As a former piano player, I disagree. There's a time and place for everything, and an organ during Even Flow is just nonsense. Crazy Mary was ruined, and let's not forget about Black. I think one of the main reasons why I have such a hard time enjoying Riot Act is because of Boom. To this day, I never understood the point of his addition to the band. Nothing against him, I just don't like Pearl Jam sounding like The Phantom of the Opera.
If you can't hear the cheez whiz all over Backspacer and now on a song like Future Days, I really don't know what else to say to you. For those of us who can hear the cheez whiz, what I'm saying is that I was really stoked to not hear ANY of it on Mind Your Manners and then it came roaring back in as BOB came out on stage and performed Future Days. Anticipation and excitement instantly transformed to cringing and "dread." Will I be able to get over a shitty Pearl Jam album or more ham-fisted production from BOB? Sure. Do I want to have to? Nope.
Borrowing your expression, I hear the cheez whiz, and it is strong in Future Days.
Lately, I am liking/loving individual songs in Pearl Jam albums, but not loving them as a whole. And I have a feeling this is how I will feel about Lightning Bolt as well.
I am just a dreamer, but you are just a dream... If I knew where it was I would take you there.
BOB makes suggestions. It's up to the band to accept or decline those suggestions. By accepting his suggestions the band is willingly taking his direction. If you dont like their recent music then blame the band, not the producer whose only making suggestions.
Funny to me how some people think it's an argument for faster or harder or angrier... It's not about any of that!
It's about cool vs not cool. It's very simple.
I don't give a fuck if Ed sings about butterflies so long as it ends up being a cool song. Saying it's not 1992 anymore is a copout. Are people asking radiohead to remake their first albums? Not anymore, because radiohead has always remained fucking cool (and have gone through a much greater evolution than PJ and written far more "love songs"). That's what I want from a rock band. I need you to be fucking cooler than I am and realize that the Fixer is embarrassing without having to hear it from me. You should already know it. You can have as many kids and wives as you want but it's still your job to write cool shit. Having a wife and kids shouldn't be an excuse for making corny song writing choices.
That's how I see it anyway.
Yeah, it's one thing to evolve, it's another to do it well. It's expected they were bound to evolve. The problem seems that as individuals they are evolving into different directions, and i think they're not combining their new interests seamlessly. It seems a bit forced and loose. Some of the music is good but it's clearly not an evolution where they all share a similar vision. Thats the way it seems to me anyway. I still love amongst the waves and unthought known, but the evolution is struggling a bit.
I do think they should record a full album in one sitting with Rick Rubin though.
PJ - Sydney 1998; Sydney 2003; Sydney, Melbourne, Newcastle 2006; Melbourne, Sydney 2009; Gold Coast, Melbourne, Sydney 2014.
EV - Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney 2011; Sydney 2014.
Pearl Jam doesn't need a keyboardist, or an organ. Fact.
As a piano player, I disagree. :nono: I love songs with heavy keyboards/piano/organ, as long as it's done well.
As a former piano player, I disagree. There's a time and place for everything, and an organ during Even Flow is just nonsense. Crazy Mary was ruined, and let's not forget about Black. I think one of the main reasons why I have such a hard time enjoying Riot Act is because of Boom. To this day, I never understood the point of his addition to the band. Nothing against him, I just don't like Pearl Jam sounding like The Phantom of the Opera.
Well I don't mean that there should be keys in every or even a lot of songs obviously. :fp: That would be nuts. And PJ does not have heavys keys. But it's still good for a band to have a keyboardist for those songs where it does sound cool, so I think it works just find for Boom (or whoever) to be on hand. I personally don't think his presence ever ruined anything.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Ticket threads or complaints........i thought this was a place where we could all express our love for the band....not just voice everything we think the band should be doing.
Kat and Sea, maybe we should just start a complaining forum.
Ticket threads or complaints........i thought this was a place where we could all express our love for the band....not just voice everything we think the band should be doing.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Once in a while its ok to voice concerns, dislikes, ect. but this forum has been flooded with these things for a long time. Really too bad.
So? If people want to voice their concern, so be it. People are happy when they are happy, and not happy when they are not.
Rather have a board which reflects the members and where people can critize and bring up things that should change instead of a place where you just "talk about how much you love the band" or otherwise keep quiet.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Rather have a board which reflects the members and where people can critize and bring up things that should change instead of a place where you just "talk about how much you love the band" or otherwise keep quiet.[/quote]
I understand what you are saying...but say I was a new fan to Pearl Jam after hearing MYM (which fuckin rocks btw) and I came on here....I would be so taken a back by all the negativity. Didn't your moms ever tell you if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.
And if you really look at it a lot of the negativity is about art!!!! Trashing art is never cool........
i only have one thing to say: i appreciated BOB's input much more during "Merkinball" era than during this keys solo..
sorry, but this should not have happened.. hate to say it but it was just cheezy.
_____________________________
Prague '95 (w/Neil Young), Warsaw '96, Seattle '98, Katowice x2 '00, Berlin '00, Berlin '06, Katowice '07, Copenhagen '07, Belfast '10, Berlin '10, Amsterdam '12, Prague'12, Berlin x2 '12, Vienna '14, Berlin '14..
Rather have a board which reflects the members and where people can critize and bring up things that should change instead of a place where you just "talk about how much you love the band" or otherwise keep quiet.
I understand what you are saying...but say I was a new fan to Pearl Jam after hearing MYM (which fuckin rocks btw) and I came on here....I would be so taken a back by all the negativity. Didn't your moms ever tell you if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.
And if you really look at it a lot of the negativity is about art!!!! Trashing art is never cool........[/quote]
When something is pleasing to people they often post about it. In fact, I just posted the lyrics and praise about Cold Concession. When something is cheezy as hell or we see the band trapped in a relationship with a producer who thinks he's "one of the guys" and it's having a detrimental impact on the music, we should be able to speak about that too. Maybe there's a reason for people's negativity and maybe there's a reason when things are positive. A review of this thread seems to make it clear that at least some of the fanbase are hearing a very "cheezy" influence being added to Pearl Jam albums and now live performances of songs like Future Days and we're not happy about it. At the same time, we can see people piling on praise for some stuff that slipped out. We can also see a lot of praise for Mind Your Manners which is quite free from the O'Brien cheez factor, though I would still argue that it has some "digital" feel about it. A digital feel isn't the tinkling cheez those of us who are complaining about O'Brien's production are complaining about though. Saying that something is art or lumping a producer's production, cheezy additions, and unusual relationship with a band into art and then declaring art sacrosanct/immune to criticism is just silly.
Comments
I've been thinking the same thing. They've literally played only 1/4 of the songs from the full album. And only one we've been able to listen to fully produced, as it will be heard on Lightning Bolt.
You may like all, some, or none of the new songs, but there are still 9 whole songs you (presumably) haven't heard yet in any form. We should wait until we hear at least a few more songs before making judgments, no? Or how about waiting until we hear the album in its entirety? But then again, what would we talk about...
Nope, it could surprise the hell out of me. It's just very much looking like a continuation of the heavy-ham-handed softness of a producer who, I would say, had a large role in ruining the band's last album.
As to the person who asked if I'm the same type of person who dislikes Binaural, etc. Nope, I quite like most of Binaural. Riot Act has some stuff I like, some I don't but I'm not calling out the producer on it. I can't seem to get many people to understand this isn't about mellow music. Weak songs can be fast, slow, heavy or soft. It's about a producer adding cheez whiz elements all over the place on studio efforts and now live performances of Pearl Jam. It's not a yearning for Pearl Jam of 20 years ago or anything like that. It's a yearning for production that lets the band's own music be the focus and about finding a producer who doesn't want to be an extra band member. It's about having a producer who understands his role is to produce the music of the band, not to feature himself with the band and even perform with them in place of their existing keyboardist. The more I look at this, the more I see a confused relationship and blurred boundaries that are having a detrimental impact on the music we're being delivered.
Another person asked how I could be sure the cheez whiz was the product of BOB. To be honest, I don't think all of it is. I think Ed's lyrics are suffering a bit lately from some cheez too. But that's not what my particular grievance in this post is about. I don't doubt that BOB is better on the keys than Boom. However, BOB is not a band member and is becoming more recognizable on Pearl Jam tracks lately to me than say Jeff. That's pretty screwed up if you ask me. I see that some here get what I'm trying to get across and agree and some either don't get what I'm talking about or like the cheez whiz, so I probably don't have much more to say on this particular matter.
If you can't hear the cheez whiz all over Backspacer and now on a song like Future Days, I really don't know what else to say to you. For those of us who can hear the cheez whiz, what I'm saying is that I was really stoked to not hear ANY of it on Mind Your Manners and then it came roaring back in as BOB came out on stage and performed Future Days. Anticipation and excitement instantly transformed to cringing and "dread." Will I be able to get over a shitty Pearl Jam album or more ham-fisted production from BOB? Sure. Do I want to have to? Nope.
Maybe this will help get my point across and maybe not... Vampires didn't sparkle until Twilight. Pearl Jam didn't tinkle until BOB made them.
As a former piano player, I disagree. There's a time and place for everything, and an organ during Even Flow is just nonsense. Crazy Mary was ruined, and let's not forget about Black. I think one of the main reasons why I have such a hard time enjoying Riot Act is because of Boom. To this day, I never understood the point of his addition to the band. Nothing against him, I just don't like Pearl Jam sounding like The Phantom of the Opera.
Borrowing your expression, I hear the cheez whiz, and it is strong in Future Days.
Lately, I am liking/loving individual songs in Pearl Jam albums, but not loving them as a whole. And I have a feeling this is how I will feel about Lightning Bolt as well.
If I knew where it was I would take you there.
Yeah, it's one thing to evolve, it's another to do it well. It's expected they were bound to evolve. The problem seems that as individuals they are evolving into different directions, and i think they're not combining their new interests seamlessly. It seems a bit forced and loose. Some of the music is good but it's clearly not an evolution where they all share a similar vision. Thats the way it seems to me anyway. I still love amongst the waves and unthought known, but the evolution is struggling a bit.
I do think they should record a full album in one sitting with Rick Rubin though.
EV - Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney 2011; Sydney 2014.
in referring to unthought known, apparently BoB said "this song was one worth recording".
i laughed at the time but i dont know if many others found the same humour in it. from memory he also said that BoB was around for the "good" albums.
A.not in the studio and have no idea what happend
B.not around for the original conception of these songs but wanna blame the guy that the band thinks brings out the best of them.
Everyday this forum becomes more and more unbearable.
It's changed alot...
You used to be able to discuss loads of PJ related stuff on the old forum...
Now it's basically page after page of ticket threads...
Kat and Sea, maybe we should just start a complaining forum.
Rather have a board which reflects the members and where people can critize and bring up things that should change instead of a place where you just "talk about how much you love the band" or otherwise keep quiet.
I understand what you are saying...but say I was a new fan to Pearl Jam after hearing MYM (which fuckin rocks btw) and I came on here....I would be so taken a back by all the negativity. Didn't your moms ever tell you if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.
And if you really look at it a lot of the negativity is about art!!!! Trashing art is never cool........
sorry, but this should not have happened.. hate to say it but it was just cheezy.
Prague '95 (w/Neil Young), Warsaw '96, Seattle '98, Katowice x2 '00, Berlin '00, Berlin '06, Katowice '07, Copenhagen '07, Belfast '10, Berlin '10, Amsterdam '12, Prague'12, Berlin x2 '12, Vienna '14, Berlin '14..
I understand what you are saying...but say I was a new fan to Pearl Jam after hearing MYM (which fuckin rocks btw) and I came on here....I would be so taken a back by all the negativity. Didn't your moms ever tell you if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.
And if you really look at it a lot of the negativity is about art!!!! Trashing art is never cool........[/quote]
When something is pleasing to people they often post about it. In fact, I just posted the lyrics and praise about Cold Concession. When something is cheezy as hell or we see the band trapped in a relationship with a producer who thinks he's "one of the guys" and it's having a detrimental impact on the music, we should be able to speak about that too. Maybe there's a reason for people's negativity and maybe there's a reason when things are positive. A review of this thread seems to make it clear that at least some of the fanbase are hearing a very "cheezy" influence being added to Pearl Jam albums and now live performances of songs like Future Days and we're not happy about it. At the same time, we can see people piling on praise for some stuff that slipped out. We can also see a lot of praise for Mind Your Manners which is quite free from the O'Brien cheez factor, though I would still argue that it has some "digital" feel about it. A digital feel isn't the tinkling cheez those of us who are complaining about O'Brien's production are complaining about though. Saying that something is art or lumping a producer's production, cheezy additions, and unusual relationship with a band into art and then declaring art sacrosanct/immune to criticism is just silly.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."