Trayvon Martin
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I'm surprised there's not more talk about the jury. I think I heard that they are all women. I thought I read somewhere that this might make it more difficult for Zimmerman.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0
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JonnyPistachio wrote:I'm surprised there's not more talk about the jury. I think I heard that they are all women. I thought I read somewhere that this might make it more difficult for Zimmerman.
that will be the topic after the verdict is read.
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No Martin DNA on Zimmerman's gun, no Zimmerman DNA under Martin's fingernails.1998-06-30 Minneapolis
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vant0037 wrote:No Martin DNA on Zimmerman's gun, no Zimmerman DNA under Martin's fingernails.
As far as the jury goes, if I'm not mistaken, most of the jurors in the Jody arias trial were women. It may not be so bad for Zimmerman.
Edit: not Jody arias. The woman's name escapes me now who was accused of killing her kid. I believe it was in Florida as well.0 -
Last-12-Exit wrote:vant0037 wrote:No Martin DNA on Zimmerman's gun, no Zimmerman DNA under Martin's fingernails.
Maybe not, but I'll bet it's unusual for someone involved in a life-or-death tussle to not end up with DNA under their fingernails. Unless of course Trayvon Martin was untouched as he punched George Zimmerman (which none of the evidence suggests, from the insignicance of Zimmerman's injuries to Zimmerman's own words to the neighbors to the fact that the gun was fired from right up against Martin). I'll wager that most "ground and pound" melees result in an exchange of DNA amongst opponents in a lot areas: hands, mouths, eyes especially.
So yeah, the fact there was no Zimmerman DNA under Martin's fingernails might suggest that Martin wasn't using his fingernails to throw punches (what?), or perhaps it suggests that someone isn't being entirely honest about the nature of the fight. :think:1998-06-30 Minneapolis
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ajedigecko wrote:...if tm were white - this would not even be news.
If zimmerman is innoncent .. Level 10 riots of anger.
If zimmerman is guilty...level 6 riots of joy.
...savages either way.
i don't get why you are calling the people that are passionate about wanting justice for trayvon savages. it is insulting."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
yeah i know what that is like to see stars. you can fight through that stuff. you play defense. if the guy is on top of you you try to guard him up and pull him onto you so he can not create distance to keep raining shots down on you. either that, or you try to put your face in his chest so he can't hit you. you can fight through seeing stars because instinct takes over. you just grab onto the guy. the hard part is when you get hit in the nose and your eyes get all teary, so reflexively you close them and try to grab on to the guy. distance is a puncher's best friend and the punchee's worst enemy. if you ever watch an mma fight, the guy on top is always pushing himself away to create distance so he has enough force to maybe knock the guy out or make him submit.
if zimmerman's head hit the ground 4 times, where was the bruising? where was the contusion? the scalp and the tissue under the skin is very vascular and it bleeds a ton. even if the skin does not break, there is usually bruising and swelling under the skin. that is missing in the zimmerman pics. those were tiny wounds if his head hit the concrete that many times there should be more bruising and deeper lacerations..
yeah you know how many times you get hit in a flurry. most times. in standup, like boxing, most guys throw 2-5 punch combos at the most. most of them do not connect, so you can go in and block or slip 3 of them and feel the two that land. on your back, it is so hard for a guy to stay on top and rain down effective shots that most times you can count the ones that hit you. it takes unbelievable core/abdominal strength to stay on top of someone and punch down at the same time. but you are not worried about counting punches in a fight. you are worried about not getting knocked out. if you have any kind of training, on the bottom, you know how to put a guy in the guard, and if you are mounted you know how to get out of that. zimmerman had mma training. for him to be mounted by a kid who he outweighed by 50 lbs tells me that zimmerman was a jabroni that had no idea what he was doing. if he got mounted by trayvon and ate a bunch of shots, his instructor would throw him out of the gym for being an embarrassment to the sport. he is a wannabe, nothing more.
edit to add, today they said that zimmerman got an A in criminal justice courses, and in that course the stand your ground law was covered. he told hannity he had never heard of such a law. also, in concealed carry class, do they not tell you the self defense laws? hell, in CPR class they cover the laws, duty to act, good samaritan laws, etc, and the legalities involved. you would think the laws would be covered when it comes to carrying a deadly weapon... how on earth could zimmerman claim in a national interview to be ignorant of the law? this man is an out and out liar.Last-12-Exit wrote:So you know that if hit hard enough, things sometimes feels out of place. The seeing stars effect. I'm not saying that's what happened in zimmermans case, but its a possibility. As far as the ME, when cross examined, omeara got her to say that its possible that his head could have hit the concrete as many as 4 times.
During your fights, do you know exactly how many times you were hit during a flurry of punches?
All of this shows that the prosecution has a very weak case. They have to proove that Zimmerman went out seeking Martin with evil intent. From what I've heard, its not there."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Insulting??? That is why we have become a land of whinners.
Far too many people unable to accept the fact that you will be insulted many times in this life.
So yes...savages base decisions on emotion or a lack of frontal lobe development.
As for the race card....
Zimmerman is as white as obama.live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.0 -
ajedigecko wrote:Insulting??? That is why we have become a land of whinners.
Far too many people unable to accept the fact that you will be insulted many times in this life.
So yes...savages base decisions on emotion or a lack of frontal lobe development.
As for the race card....
Zimmerman is as white as obama.
what are you gonna do if zimmerman goes to jail for a long time? are you gonna call the decision bullshit? or are you gonna accept it?"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
http://drdavidjleonard.com/2013/07/03/n ... -question/
No question about its roots: White Supremacy and the Cracker Question
Posted on July 3, 2013 by djlwsu Standard
While little surprises me about CNN (Cable’s NON News), the sensational efforts to play off the George Zimmerman trial, to link the “N Word” to Cracker, and to situate the discussion within a discourse of “which is worse” is a testament to their failures as a network. As someone on Twitter and my colleague Rich King noted, the mere fact that CNN says Cracker but encodes the “N-word” tells us all we know, yet the conversation continues.
Despite amazing participants, the framing of the discussion, which centers whiteness (can’t have a discussion of “N word” without somehow bringing the debate back to whiteness), on false comparisons is telling! If CNN wanted to have a discussion to add depth to Zimmerman trial as it relates to Cracker but instead they wandered down the problematic road of “everyone is racist” and “everyone has their own slurs.”
Cracker has a long history; a longer history than America. Dating back at least to Shakespeare, the origins and meaning are disparate. Jelani Cobb, on NPR’s Code Switch, offers insight into its more contemporary usage:
“Cracker,” the old standby of Anglo insults was first noted in the mid 18th century, making it older than the United States itself. It was used to refer to poor whites, particularly those inhabiting the frontier regions of Maryland, Virginia and Georgia. It is suspected that it was a shortened version of “whip-cracker,” since the manual labor they did involved driving livestock with a whip (not to mention the other brutal arenas where those skills were employed.) Over the course of time it came to represent a person of lower caste or criminal disposition, (in some instances, was used in reference to bandits and other lawless folk.).
Despite this very specific history, one that locates cracker within history of white supremacy and one that position itself outside this history, some still try to connect Cracker with “N word” as part of its narrative on “white victimhood” and “double standards. Joan Walsh took up this line of argumentation in a recent post:
From Glenn Beck’s the Blaze to the Breitbots to smaller right-wing shriekers to Twitter trolls everywhere, white grievance-mongers seemed less bothered by the fact that Martin allegedly used the term, than by Jeantel saying it wasn’t a slur…. My God, don’t these people get tired of themselves? So much of the trumped-up racial upset on the right, generally, is about language: If black people can use the N-word, why can’t we? (Even Paula Deen tried to use that as self-defense at first.) Now we’re moving on to: If the N-word is racist and forbidden, words like “cracker” should be, too. But “cracker” has never had the same power to demean, or to exile, or to sting. No social order has ever been devised whereby African-Americans oppress people they deride as “crackers.”
Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker too articulated the absurdity of the comparison:
For those needing a refresher course, here are just a few reasons why cracker doesn’t compare to the N-word. Cracker has never been used routinely to:
Deny a white person a seat at a lunch counter.
Systematically deny whites the right to vote.
Deny a white person a seat near the front of a bus.
Crack the skulls of peaceful white protesters marching for equality.
Blow up a church and kill four little white girls.
Need more? Didn’t think so.
Cracker may be a pejorative in some circles. It may even be used to insult a white person. But it clearly lacks the grievous, historical freight of the other.
The efforts to push back at this attempt to imagine white victimhood, to reduce racism discussions to individual prejudices or slurs, to deny white privilege through noting double standards and the assault on whiteness, is nothing new. It’s central to a post civil rights discourse, which has sought to deny the structural advantages that continue to benefit white America. Tim Wise makes this clear in his piece “Revisiting a Past Essay — Honky Wanna Cracker? Examining the Myth of Reverse Racism:”
Simply put, what separates white racism from any other form and makes anti-black and brown humor more dangerous than its anti-white equivalent is the ability of the former to become lodged in the minds and perceptions of the citizenry. White perceptions are what end up counting in a white-dominated society. If whites say Indians are savages, be they “noble” or vicious, they’ll be seen in that light. If Indians say whites are mayonnaise-eating Amway salespeople, who the hell’s going to care? If anything, whites will simply turn it into a marketing opportunity. When you have the power, you can afford to be self-deprecating.
The day that someone produces a newspaper ad that reads: “Twenty honkies for sale today: good condition, best offer accepted,” or “Cracker to be lynched tonight: whistled at black woman,” then perhaps I’ll see the equivalence of these slurs with the more common type to which we’ve grown accustomed. When white churches start getting burned down by militant blacks who spray paint “Kill the honkies” on the sidewalks outside, then maybe I’ll take seriously these concerns over “reverse racism.”
So to be clear, comparing the “N-Word” to Cracker is like comparing ice cream to cardboard. Yet, both very much pivot on white supremacy. Yes, white supremacy grounds both the N-Word and Cracker. The history and origins of Cracker points to the way it seeks to normalize whiteness as middle-class, civility, and civilization. It, like White Trash (see here for great discussion), seeks to differentiate between those who are southern, those who are lower-classes, and those who don’t embody the desired inscription of whiteness. Cracker seeks to humanize white normativity. Matt Wray (cited here), writing about discourse surrounding white trash, argues:
Current stereotypes of white trash can be traced to a series of studies produced around the turn of the century by the US Eugenics Records Office… wherein the researchers sought to demonstrate scientifically, that large numbers of rural poor whites were “genetic defectives.” Typically, researchers conducted their studies by locating relatives who were either incarcerated or institutionalized and then racing their genealogies back to a “defective” source (often, but not always, a person of mixed blood) (2)
Given this history, Cracker must be understood not as anti-White per se but serving in the maintenance of white supremacy and the white power structure. It establishes a qualifier to those who are “white” who don’t embody the hegemonic vision of whiteness. It not only Others the “white poor,” furthering narratives that demonize and blame the poor across the color line, but humanizes whiteness as a category. The history of Cracker and the word itself is very much one of race, class, and caste, in which WHITES judged, policed, and categorized OTHER WHITES to determine who was truly WHITE and who was not quite WHITE. Rather than recycling the tried and trusted story of white victimization (notice how the debate about “N Word,” Cracker, Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act, Paula Deen, etc. always in some way comes back to a delusional sense of white victimhood), we must begin to think about the structural context, one where “whites continue to swim in preference.” Cracker isn’t simply a word or a slur but a window into America’s racial history, into white supremacy.0 -
...you can attempt to label me all you want. I am not insulted.
My thinking is - the outcome guilty or innoncent...they want blood.
Zimmerman is just a face now. This trial has become about whites and blacks. Haves and have nots.
These are my simple observations - based on simple history.
As for the race card you enjoy...use it all you like, i am not insulted.
White
Yellow
Red
Black
Pink
Green
Blue
Brown
I do not care ( my favorite color)live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.0 -
I think the whole thing started with a lot of race issues, but I feel like most of that has been left behind at this point.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0
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Never seen someone get so fat on prison food
Dude is guilty... He's nervous, if it went down the way he said nothing to worry bout
He ain't John Gotti eating prosciutto and cheeses in the can, he's scarfing down slop
In all seriousness he's a pussy0 -
CROJAM95 wrote:Never seen someone get so fat on prison food
Dude is guilty... He's nervous, if it went down the way he said nothing to worry bout
He ain't John Gotti eating prosciutto and cheeses in the can, he's scarfing down slop
In all seriousness he's a pussy
I think he is out on bail. According to his lawyer "in hiding"I found my place......and it's alright0 -
otter wrote:CROJAM95 wrote:Never seen someone get so fat on prison food
Dude is guilty... He's nervous, if it went down the way he said nothing to worry bout
He ain't John Gotti eating prosciutto and cheeses in the can, he's scarfing down slop
In all seriousness he's a pussy
I think he is out on bail. According to his lawyer "in hiding"
Got ya...looks like a different person0 -
otter wrote:CROJAM95 wrote:Never seen someone get so fat on prison food
Dude is guilty... He's nervous, if it went down the way he said nothing to worry bout
He ain't John Gotti eating prosciutto and cheeses in the can, he's scarfing down slop
In all seriousness he's a pussy
I think he is out on bail. According to his lawyer "in hiding"
remember when his wife lied about their finances?? :fp:"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
RW81233 wrote:http://drdavidjleonard.com/2013/07/03/no-question-about-its-roots-white-supremacy-and-the-cracker-question/
No question about its roots: White Supremacy and the Cracker Question
Posted on July 3, 2013 by djlwsu .
Thank you for posting this.2013 Wrigley, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
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No problem...wish others would have at least considered the historically grounded argument. It's interesting to me that those who claim to be all about the ideals of our forefathers don't actually "get" what they were about, OR they actually want to go all Paula Deen at get back to a time when slaves were a reality.0
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do some of you think trayvon was at no blame of his own for his death ?
"I'm a gansta" "creepy ass cracka" pictures of travon that show a not so innocent kid ?
it's shame that he is dead but I don't think this zimmerman guy went after travon with the intention to kill him.
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RW81233 wrote:http://drdavidjleonard.com/2013/07/03/no-question-about-its-roots-white-supremacy-and-the-cracker-question/
No question about its roots: White Supremacy and the Cracker Question
Posted on July 3, 2013 by djlwsu Standard
While little surprises me about CNN (Cable’s NON News), the sensational efforts to play off the George Zimmerman trial, to link the “N Word” to Cracker, and to situate the discussion within a discourse of “which is worse” is a testament to their failures as a network. As someone on Twitter and my colleague Rich King noted, the mere fact that CNN says Cracker but encodes the “N-word” tells us all we know, yet the conversation continues.
Despite amazing participants, the framing of the discussion, which centers whiteness (can’t have a discussion of “N word” without somehow bringing the debate back to whiteness), on false comparisons is telling! If CNN wanted to have a discussion to add depth to Zimmerman trial as it relates to Cracker but instead they wandered down the problematic road of “everyone is racist” and “everyone has their own slurs.”
Cracker has a long history; a longer history than America. Dating back at least to Shakespeare, the origins and meaning are disparate. Jelani Cobb, on NPR’s Code Switch, offers insight into its more contemporary usage:
“Cracker,” the old standby of Anglo insults was first noted in the mid 18th century, making it older than the United States itself. It was used to refer to poor whites, particularly those inhabiting the frontier regions of Maryland, Virginia and Georgia. It is suspected that it was a shortened version of “whip-cracker,” since the manual labor they did involved driving livestock with a whip (not to mention the other brutal arenas where those skills were employed.) Over the course of time it came to represent a person of lower caste or criminal disposition, (in some instances, was used in reference to bandits and other lawless folk.).
Despite this very specific history, one that locates cracker within history of white supremacy and one that position itself outside this history, some still try to connect Cracker with “N word” as part of its narrative on “white victimhood” and “double standards. Joan Walsh took up this line of argumentation in a recent post:
From Glenn Beck’s the Blaze to the Breitbots to smaller right-wing shriekers to Twitter trolls everywhere, white grievance-mongers seemed less bothered by the fact that Martin allegedly used the term, than by Jeantel saying it wasn’t a slur…. My God, don’t these people get tired of themselves? So much of the trumped-up racial upset on the right, generally, is about language: If black people can use the N-word, why can’t we? (Even Paula Deen tried to use that as self-defense at first.) Now we’re moving on to: If the N-word is racist and forbidden, words like “cracker” should be, too. But “cracker” has never had the same power to demean, or to exile, or to sting. No social order has ever been devised whereby African-Americans oppress people they deride as “crackers.”
Conservative columnist Kathleen Parker too articulated the absurdity of the comparison:
For those needing a refresher course, here are just a few reasons why cracker doesn’t compare to the N-word. Cracker has never been used routinely to:
Deny a white person a seat at a lunch counter.
Systematically deny whites the right to vote.
Deny a white person a seat near the front of a bus.
Crack the skulls of peaceful white protesters marching for equality.
Blow up a church and kill four little white girls.
Need more? Didn’t think so.
Cracker may be a pejorative in some circles. It may even be used to insult a white person. But it clearly lacks the grievous, historical freight of the other.
The efforts to push back at this attempt to imagine white victimhood, to reduce racism discussions to individual prejudices or slurs, to deny white privilege through noting double standards and the assault on whiteness, is nothing new. It’s central to a post civil rights discourse, which has sought to deny the structural advantages that continue to benefit white America. Tim Wise makes this clear in his piece “Revisiting a Past Essay — Honky Wanna Cracker? Examining the Myth of Reverse Racism:”
Simply put, what separates white racism from any other form and makes anti-black and brown humor more dangerous than its anti-white equivalent is the ability of the former to become lodged in the minds and perceptions of the citizenry. White perceptions are what end up counting in a white-dominated society. If whites say Indians are savages, be they “noble” or vicious, they’ll be seen in that light. If Indians say whites are mayonnaise-eating Amway salespeople, who the hell’s going to care? If anything, whites will simply turn it into a marketing opportunity. When you have the power, you can afford to be self-deprecating.
The day that someone produces a newspaper ad that reads: “Twenty honkies for sale today: good condition, best offer accepted,” or “Cracker to be lynched tonight: whistled at black woman,” then perhaps I’ll see the equivalence of these slurs with the more common type to which we’ve grown accustomed. When white churches start getting burned down by militant blacks who spray paint “Kill the honkies” on the sidewalks outside, then maybe I’ll take seriously these concerns over “reverse racism.”
So to be clear, comparing the “N-Word” to Cracker is like comparing ice cream to cardboard. Yet, both very much pivot on white supremacy. Yes, white supremacy grounds both the N-Word and Cracker. The history and origins of Cracker points to the way it seeks to normalize whiteness as middle-class, civility, and civilization. It, like White Trash (see here for great discussion), seeks to differentiate between those who are southern, those who are lower-classes, and those who don’t embody the desired inscription of whiteness. Cracker seeks to humanize white normativity. Matt Wray (cited here), writing about discourse surrounding white trash, argues:
Current stereotypes of white trash can be traced to a series of studies produced around the turn of the century by the US Eugenics Records Office… wherein the researchers sought to demonstrate scientifically, that large numbers of rural poor whites were “genetic defectives.” Typically, researchers conducted their studies by locating relatives who were either incarcerated or institutionalized and then racing their genealogies back to a “defective” source (often, but not always, a person of mixed blood) (2)
Given this history, Cracker must be understood not as anti-White per se but serving in the maintenance of white supremacy and the white power structure. It establishes a qualifier to those who are “white” who don’t embody the hegemonic vision of whiteness. It not only Others the “white poor,” furthering narratives that demonize and blame the poor across the color line, but humanizes whiteness as a category. The history of Cracker and the word itself is very much one of race, class, and caste, in which WHITES judged, policed, and categorized OTHER WHITES to determine who was truly WHITE and who was not quite WHITE. Rather than recycling the tried and trusted story of white victimization (notice how the debate about “N Word,” Cracker, Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act, Paula Deen, etc. always in some way comes back to a delusional sense of white victimhood), we must begin to think about the structural context, one where “whites continue to swim in preference.” Cracker isn’t simply a word or a slur but a window into America’s racial history, into white supremacy.
we all know what cracker means today 20012-13 this is not the 1800 or before and doubt travon knew anything about the history of the word cracker, and zimmerman is mexican aint he ? stuff like this is what will cause riots if zimmerman walks.
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