Edward Snowden & The N.S.A Revelations

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  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    do you think matters how me or you calling him.?.he is wanted from usa..u know what that means..

    He's a whistle blower, not a spy. Big difference.
    i agree..wait to see how media will make him look like...
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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,309
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    do you think matters how me or you calling him.?.he is wanted from usa..u know what that means..

    He's a whistle blower, not a spy. Big difference.
    As a general rule, whistle blowers do not steal classified top secret info and then take that info to China and then Russia. This falls under the term known as espionage at this point in time.
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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    unsung wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    do you think matters how me or you calling him.?.he is wanted from usa..u know what that means..

    He's a whistle blower, not a spy. Big difference.


    Exactly.

    "Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. I will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government."

    ----Barack Obama 2008
    :clap:
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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,309
    unsung wrote:
    "Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. I will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government."

    ----Barack Obama 2008
    And now he was prosecuted more whistleblowers then every other POTUS combined.

    Forward.
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Dirty Wars author Jeremy Scahill: Is journalism being criminalised? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -interview
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jason P wrote:
    As a general rule, whistle blowers do not steal classified top secret info and then take that info to China and then Russia. This falls under the term known as espionage at this point in time.

    No it doesn't. He revealed that the U.S government has been spying on it's own citizens, in breach of the U.S Constitution, and has also been spying on the citizens of other countries. That's not espionage, it's whistle-blowing. Although I can see how desperate you are to paint him as a traitor and spy, because you love your government so much, and will defend them even when they commit crimes against the American people.

    Edward Snowden: '...let's be clear: I did not reveal any US operations against legitimate military targets. I pointed out where the NSA has hacked civilian infrastructure such as universities, hospitals, and private businesses because it is dangerous. These nakedly, aggressively criminal acts are wrong no matter the target. Not only that, when NSA makes a technical mistake during an exploitation operation, critical systems crash. Congress hasn't declared war on the countries - the majority of them are our allies - but without asking for public permission, NSA is running network operations against them that affect millions of innocent people. And for what? So we can have secret access to a computer in a country we're not even fighting? So we can potentially reveal a potential terrorist with the potential to kill fewer Americans than our own Police? No, the public needs to know the kinds of things a government does in its name, or the "consent of the governed" is meaningless.'

    Was Daniel Ellsberg also a traitor for revealing the Pentagon Papers to the World, and showing us that the U.S government had been consistently lying about the Vietnam war?

    The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEKGZk3OjHM
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Dirty Wars author Jeremy Scahill: Is journalism being criminalised? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -interview

    This is a good contribution.

    You know what? As much as the technology doesn't really freak me out... the process by which the government is operating does. It's hard to get behind this administration and their bullying tactics that attempt to silence journalism which exposes them.

    The scathing bit (regarding what journalists are allowed to see and report on... and what they are not): That's not independently verifiable information. What that is is propaganda.

    Spider senses are tingling now.
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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,309
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    As a general rule, whistle blowers do not steal classified top secret info and then take that info to China and then Russia. This falls under the term known as espionage at this point in time.

    No it doesn't. He revealed that the U.S government has been spying on it's own citizens, in breach of the U.S Constitution, and has also been spying on the citizens of other countries. That's not espionage, it's whistle-blowing. Although I can see how desperate you are to paint him as a traitor and spy, because you love your government so much, and will defend them even when they commit crimes against the American people.

    [/i]
    I'm not desperate to paint him as anything until I see the facts lay themselves out.

    OK, good for him. He told us what Will Smith and Gene Hackman told us in 1998. Shocking.

    But taking classified US intel info to China and then Russia is either espoinage or extreme stupidity. I still hold my right to make of this case what it is as more info is revealed.
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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    You know what? As much as the technology doesn't really freak me out... the process by which the government is operating does. It's hard to get behind this administration and their bullying tactics that attempt to silence journalism which exposes them.

    This is where my head is at as well. I do not care so much about the "spying". Much of it seems like logical standard operating procedure in today's world. That said...there is a heavy handedness to the way the government is acting that is cause for concern.
    ___________________________________________

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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jason P wrote:
    But taking classified US intel info to China and then Russia is either espoinage or extreme stupidity.

    It's neither. And the effects of his revelations would have been exactly the same if he'd taken the info to Guadalupe and Tierra Del Fuego.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JimmyV wrote:
    This is where my head is at as well. I do not care so much about the "spying". Much of it seems like logical standard operating procedure in today's world. That said...there is a heavy handedness to the way the government is acting that is cause for concern.

    They don't need to carry out a blanket surveillance of millions of Americans. They should be able to narrow their searches to those individuals deemed to be potential dangers.
    And it also happens to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

    Glenn Greenwald & Daniel Ellsberg on Piers Morgan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmx1GmvRLkM
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    The New York Times' Moscow correspondent Ellen Barry flags a report in Russian in which President Vladimir Putin says Snowden is in a transit zone at Sheremetyevo International Airport.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,309
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    But taking classified US intel info to China and then Russia is either espoinage or extreme stupidity.

    It's neither. And the effects of his revelations would have been exactly the same if he'd taken the info to Guadalupe and Tierra Del Fuego.
    Guadalupe and Tierra Del Fuego are on par as rivals such as China and the U.S.S.R? Do they have telepathic donkeys that can replicate hard drives in Guadalupe and Tierra Del Fuego? And do they have spy agencies that are as well funded and developed as the NSA in Guadalupe and Tierra Del Fuego?

    What are there? 195 recognized nations? If someone stole classifed info from the US government ... what would be the first two countries that Obama would pray that the info didn't go to????????

    Could it possibly be the first two countries that Snowden went to? Out of 195? Or would it by Guadalupe and Tierra Del Fuego?

    Why not go to Ecuador in the first place? Any idiot with half a sense would have done that. Instead of maxing out your credit card at a $500 / night hotel in Hong Kong.

    :think:

    It's all a farce anyway. Just a political game of thrones as it stands. If Russia and China didn't already know what Snowden knows, well, they would be just another Guadalupe or Tierra Del Fuego. :geek:
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  • vant0037
    vant0037 Posts: 6,170
    Byrnzie wrote:
    And it also happens to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

    This is what I'm talking about. Is it a violation? I don't like it, I'm concerned about the legality of the program, but it seems like a bit of assumption without more analysis.
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  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,919
    is there really any chance the Russians are letting him go without getting whatever supposedly secrets he has? and I wonder when it comes out what information the Russians get from him will the sympathizers think he is a traitor and rat then?
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    Byrnzie wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    This is where my head is at as well. I do not care so much about the "spying". Much of it seems like logical standard operating procedure in today's world. That said...there is a heavy handedness to the way the government is acting that is cause for concern.

    They don't need to carry out a blanket surveillance of millions of Americans. They should be able to narrow their searches to those individuals deemed to be potential dangers.
    And it also happens to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

    I remain unconvinced that my rights have been violated.

    As I don't receive a daily intelligence briefing, I am unwilling to pretend I know what they "don't need" or "should be able" to do.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    I thought Andrew Sullivan described my conflicting views on Snowden well:

    "...I am on the side of whistle-blowers who take a stand and face the consequences as an act of civil disobedience if they find something awry. I am on the side of journalists, like Glenn Greenwald, who are simply doing their job – informing us more about our government’s surveillance of us, in our name.

    But I am more conflicted by a man who took his job in order to expose what he already believed was wrong, then ran away to seek refuge in authoritarian regimes with open hostility to the US."

    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/06/ ... e-day-230/
    ___________________________________________

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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Pretty sad an American has to seek refuge in Russia for being a whistleblower.

    Worst political era in US history.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    But hey, gotta save us from those scary terrorists, right?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,309
    I wonder if these two guys met Snowden at the Moscow airport?

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