Edward Snowden & The N.S.A Revelations

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    President Obama once said “In the face of impossible odds, people who love this country can change it.”
    I believe Edward Snowden is one of those people. Shame the American President is such a hypocrite. But then, he is a politician after all.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    My guess is, he never went to Russia, but is now in Hanoi, Vietnam, in the presence of the Ecuadorian Foreign Minister Patino, and will probably fly back to Ecuador with him.

    I mean, why fly West, over Nato Airspace, when you could simply fly over the Pacific instead?

    The latest: Ricardo Patiño Aroca, Ecuador’s foreign minister, is holding a press conference in Hanoi now.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Isn't the Dept of Homeland Security's motto "If you see something, say something"?

    He did.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Looks like the U.S may have to come to terms with the fact that the rest of the World is not willing to put up with it's bullshit any longer.
    Ecuador's number one trade partner is the U.S.

    34% of their exports go to the U.S.

    31% of their imports are from the U.S.

    Just like Venezuela, the hypocrisy reeks. Call us the devil and then do all your business with us.

    :fp:
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jason P wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Looks like the U.S may have to come to terms with the fact that the rest of the World is not willing to put up with it's bullshit any longer.
    Ecuador's number one trade partner is the U.S.

    34% of their exports go to the U.S.

    31% of their imports are from the U.S.

    Just like Venezuela, the hypocrisy reeks. Call us the devil and then do all your business with us.

    :fp:

    There's a difference between doing trade with a country, and allowing that same country to spy on you, and exploit your resources.
    But then you know that already.
  • London BridgeLondon Bridge USAPosts: 4,732
    unsung wrote:
    Isn't the Dept of Homeland Security's motto "If you see something, say something"?

    He did.

    He didn't say anything when he first knew it was happening. How many years did he know about it?

    Yep, that's your hero. :lol: Savior of the American Constitution. Praise the Lord. Edward Snowden has arrived.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 17,558
    so wait, the guy who told you that your government is spying on you is the bad guy? what about the fucking government doing the spying?
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    There's a difference between doing trade with a country, and allowing that same country to spy on you, and exploit your resources.
    But then you know that already.
    That I do. That difference is called Cuba. A country that stands behind their words. A place where people drive cars from the 50's and duct tape 55 gallon barrels together in hopes that ocean currents drift them to America.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 17,558
    why would he fly over nato airspace where the possibility exists that a random "accident" could happen to his plane?

    wouldn't that be some shit? a summary execution via missile to a plane?
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • London BridgeLondon Bridge USAPosts: 4,732
    so wait, the guy who told you that your government is spying on you is the bad guy? what about the fucking government doing the spying?

    The charges being brought against him are legit.

    I believe there is a thread on the government spying on Americans.
    Personally, I don't take issue with what they're doing.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,474
    I guess Ed was wrong, rats do scurry ;)
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jason P wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    There's a difference between doing trade with a country, and allowing that same country to spy on you, and exploit your resources.
    But then you know that already.
    That I do. That difference is called Cuba. A country that stands behind their words. A place where people drive cars from the 50's and duct tape 55 gallon barrels together in hopes that ocean currents drift them to America.

    Is that the country that's been under a U.S blockade for the past 50 years?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I believe there is a thread on the government spying on Americans.
    Personally, I don't take issue with what they're doing.

    So you have no respect for Democracy, and the rule of law. And you'd be perfectly happy living in a police State.

    Thanks for sharing that with us.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pjhawks wrote:
    I guess Ed was wrong, rats do scurry ;)

    Because how dare anybody expose the crimes of your government, right?
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    another great thread!

    I wish the IRS audited every american taxpayer every year that has the "i have nothing to hide so spy/audit away" approach.

    would be great to see them have to respond to letter after letter either in writing or on the phone. then set up an appointment with the local IRS agent. then head down to the local IRS office with records files paperwork in hand. then set the appointment up for the in home audit. then wait months for a final determination. then argue that the findings aren't correct/fair.

    next year next to the donate $3 to the election fund, they should include a box, please check here if you have nothing to hide and would like to be audited every year. wonder how many people would check the box? i would hope/think of few forum members would!
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    That I do. That difference is called Cuba. A country that stands behind their words. A place where people drive cars from the 50's and duct tape 55 gallon barrels together in hopes that ocean currents drift them to America.

    Is that the country that's been under a U.S blockade for the past 50 years?
    A trade embargo is different from a blockade. And Obama has offered his hand to open relations.
  • And when election time comes around, I definitely know I am not voting any one of these pricks back in.

    Good luck with this.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • London BridgeLondon Bridge USAPosts: 4,732
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I believe there is a thread on the government spying on Americans.
    Personally, I don't take issue with what they're doing.

    So you have no respect for Democracy, and the rule of law. And you'd be perfectly happy living in a police State.

    Thanks for sharing that with us.

    If you believe all Americans think the surveillance of Americans is wrong, you would be incorrect.
    Like usual, you make a mountain out of an ant hill. Are you this paranoid all the time? Police state, tyranny, ...the list goes on and on.

    I'm 100% American and served my country for 6 years. To say I have no respect for Democracy is flat out wrong!
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,474
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    I guess Ed was wrong, rats do scurry ;)

    Because how dare anybody expose the crimes of your government, right?

    by committing his own criminal act but somehow it's ok for him to do so.
  • Bronx BombersBronx Bombers Posts: 2,208
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because how dare anybody expose the crimes of your government, right?

    A four-year-old disabled Chinese boy was put in a prison for over three years because his parents were protesters, his foster father has claimed.

    Chen Ya, who is now eight, was taken away by officials in Sanzao county in the southern province of Guangdong in 2009, according to Chen Fengqiang, his foster father.

    Despite being a toddler with developmental problems, the boy was kept alone in a windowless 40 sq ft cell until April, when he was finally released into Mr Chen's care.

    Today, the boy "cannot walk very far and his head shakes," said Mr Chen.

    "He cannot talk so I do not know what happened to him. But you can imagine what it is like for a four-year-old child to be taken and shut away," he said.

    "There are no bruises on his body, so I do not know whether he was abused, but if you raise your hand, he curls into a ball afraid," he added.

    Mr Chen could not explain why the authorities had chosen to put the boy in solitary confinement. On Monday he travelled to the regional capital, Guangzhou, to engage a new lawyer, Wu Kuiming, to seek redress.

    "This is a cruel method that the government uses when it wants to control protesters," said Mr Wu. "But I do not know what they wanted to achieve by locking up a four-year-old boy," he added.

    Both Mr Chen, 54, and his former partner, the boy's mother, Wei Lipei, 40, have been thorns in the side of the local government for over a decade.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... years.html

    Does it ever get lonely up there on your pedestal :lol:
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,756
    I can't believe he agreed to go to Russia. Why not fly direct to Ecuador? Moscow is further away then Hong Kong.

    It's not like Putin is going to let him do a layover without collecting all his data.

    Whistleblowing is one thing. Handing over secrets to China and Russia is another.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pjhawks wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    I guess Ed was wrong, rats do scurry ;)

    Because how dare anybody expose the crimes of your government, right?

    by committing his own criminal act but somehow it's ok for him to do so.


    Julian Assange: "The current status of Mr Snowden and Ms [Sarah] Harrrison [of Wikileaks, who travelled with him from Hong Kong]: both are health and safe and they are in contact with their legal team. I can’t give further information as to their whereabouts or present circumstances other than to say that the matter is in hand.

    We are aware of where Edward Snowden is. He is in a safe place and his spirits are high. Due to the bellicose threats coming from the US administration we cannot go into further detail at this time...Unfortunately we cannot reveal what country he is in at this time."



    He took issue with descriptions of Snowden as a traitor:

    "Edward Snowden is not a traitor. He is not a spy. He is a whistleblower who has told the public an important truth … In law a traitor must adhere to US enemies and there is also a requirement that the conduct is in congressionally approved wartime - neither of these apply here."

    He added that “the Obama administration was not given a mandate to spy on the entire world, to breach the US constitution and laws of other nations in the manner it has”. He also warned that the US’s crackdown on journalistic sources under Barack Obama threatened “the complete destruction of national security journalism”.

    Michael Ratner, Wikileaks’s American attorney, said whistleblowers were protected under international conventions on refugees. The US had recognised that when it applied to Chinese and African whistleblowers, he said, “so it’s surprising to me now - though maybe not surprising in this particular case - to see the US ignore that”.

    “Asylum trumps extradition,” he said, and countries were not supposed to interfere with each other’s asylum processes. He said there was “no international arrest warrant that we know of” so Snowden was “not a fugitive in any sense of the word”.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jason P wrote:
    Whistleblowing is one thing. Handing over secrets to China and Russia is another.

    Except he's done nothing of the sort.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because how dare anybody expose the crimes of your government, right?

    A four-year-old disabled Chinese boy was put in a prison for over three years because his parents were protesters, his foster father has claimed.

    Chen Ya, who is now eight, was taken away by officials in Sanzao county in the southern province of Guangdong in 2009, according to Chen Fengqiang, his foster father.

    Despite being a toddler with developmental problems, the boy was kept alone in a windowless 40 sq ft cell until April, when he was finally released into Mr Chen's care.

    Today, the boy "cannot walk very far and his head shakes," said Mr Chen.

    "He cannot talk so I do not know what happened to him. But you can imagine what it is like for a four-year-old child to be taken and shut away," he said.

    "There are no bruises on his body, so I do not know whether he was abused, but if you raise your hand, he curls into a ball afraid," he added.

    Mr Chen could not explain why the authorities had chosen to put the boy in solitary confinement. On Monday he travelled to the regional capital, Guangzhou, to engage a new lawyer, Wu Kuiming, to seek redress.

    "This is a cruel method that the government uses when it wants to control protesters," said Mr Wu. "But I do not know what they wanted to achieve by locking up a four-year-old boy," he added.

    Both Mr Chen, 54, and his former partner, the boy's mother, Wei Lipei, 40, have been thorns in the side of the local government for over a decade.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... years.html

    Does it ever get lonely up there on your pedestal :lol:

    What does this have to do with your government spying on you, and lying to you?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jason P wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    That I do. That difference is called Cuba. A country that stands behind their words. A place where people drive cars from the 50's and duct tape 55 gallon barrels together in hopes that ocean currents drift them to America.

    Is that the country that's been under a U.S blockade for the past 50 years?
    A trade embargo is different from a blockade. And Obama has offered his hand to open relations.

    The whole World sees the blockade as a crime. The whole World, except the U.S and Israel.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... _and_rules

    'The United Nations General Assembly has condemned the embargo as a violation of international law every year since 1992. Israel, despite ranking as one of Cuba's leading trading partners (and thus a violator of the Helms-Burton Act), is the only country that routinely joins the U.S. in voting against the resolution, as has Palau every year from 2004 to 2008. On October 26, 2010, for the 19th time, the General Assembly condemned the embargo, 187 to 2 with 3 abstentions. Israel sided with the U.S., while Marshall Islands, Palau and Micronesia abstained.'
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    If you believe all Americans think the surveillance of Americans is wrong, you would be incorrect.

    I don't believe all Americans think that their government spying on them is wrong, as I know that many Americans haven't the faintest idea what freedom means, and that they'd be perfectly happy to live in a police State.
    Though not all Americans feel this way.

    Meanwhile...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... mentpage=7
    A White House petition to pardon Edward Snowden, who has been charged with three felonies so far, has garnered more than 100,000 signatures, the threshold for earning an official reply.

    The petition gained the needed signatures with more than two weeks to spare in the petitioning period. The White House presents the petitions as a way to include "your voice in our government."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    Whistleblowing is one thing. Handing over secrets to China and Russia is another.

    Except he's done nothing of the sort.
    We don't know if he has willingly or unwillingly transfered data. But he has put himself in position to.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,756
    Byrnzie wrote:
    If you believe all Americans think the surveillance of Americans is wrong, you would be incorrect.

    I don't believe all Americans think that their government spying on them is wrong, as I know that many Americans haven't the faintest idea what freedom means, and that they'd be perfectly happy to live in a police State.
    Though not all Americans feel this way.

    Meanwhile...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... mentpage=7
    A White House petition to pardon Edward Snowden, who has been charged with three felonies so far, has garnered more than 100,000 signatures, the threshold for earning an official reply.

    The petition gained the needed signatures with more than two weeks to spare in the petitioning period. The White House presents the petitions as a way to include "your voice in our government."
    I agree that the embargo is silly. It should have died the day the Berlin wall came down.

    I have a suspicion that the Castros are probably better off with their power hold if it continues.
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I believe there is a thread on the government spying on Americans.
    Personally, I don't take issue with what they're doing.

    So you have no respect for Democracy, and the rule of law. And you'd be perfectly happy living in a police State.

    Thanks for sharing that with us.

    I agree with everything you are saying.......yet I was called paranoid......people that have information on this administration are dying! Americans that do not agree with Obama are having there homes raided......shit is happening right before our eyes and still people can not see.....example IRS
    Some people need to venture off there liberal web sites ........
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    Whistleblowing is one thing. Handing over secrets to China and Russia is another.

    Except he's done nothing of the sort.

    Technically he could have. You can't prove that with his interview with the guardian. But one cannot prove he did so as well.

    All I am saying is that we do not know 100% of what Snowden did, as well as we don't know 100% how much the government has spied. We know they did, but the extent we do not know for sure.
    ~Carter~

    You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
    or you can come to terms and realize
    you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
    makes much more sense to live in the present tense
    - Present Tense
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