AMT Hero or traitor ?

245

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  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    edited June 2013
    Yes this guy exposed what the Obama administration is doing. If you want to call him a hero, fine. The other side of this is that he has specific knowledge top secret information that can be very damaging to US security. China can offer this guy millions (or detain) this guy to get the sensitive information.

    That's why what he did isn't heroic, its stupidity. Yaaaaay, he pretty much confirmed what we already knew about the government. Lets just hope he doesn't spill the beans to China on the military info.
    Post edited by Last-12-Exit on
  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    Go Beavers wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Again, it is not that simple.
    Either we use these tools that can help to identify possible risks to our security, including the deaths of people... or we forfeit our liberties that protect us from our own government.
    You have to decide which is more important to you, your family and your fellow citizens.
    ...
    Personally, I'm glad he at least made us aware that this is going on. As to stopping our government from carrying on these operations... it may be a necessary means to prevent tragedies. I don't like it... but, i understand why it is being done.

    After 9/11 we were told that the Patriot Act needed to be put in place in order to stop it from happening again, and people bought it. I don't buy it, because what we had in place prior to 9/11 was sufficient to stop it from happening.

    Maybe I'm not grasping the enormity of the leak, but on a smaller scale, isn't it the equivalent of letting people know that there's a cop ahead popping drivers with his radar gun? We knew what was in the Patriot Act, now this guy is letting us know some of the specifics.

    I think it's more along the lines of a cop sitting in your neighborhood with a scanner listening to your phone calls and a laptop that can access your email if he chooses to do so.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,956
    Shawshank wrote:
    Go Beavers wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Again, it is not that simple.
    Either we use these tools that can help to identify possible risks to our security, including the deaths of people... or we forfeit our liberties that protect us from our own government.
    You have to decide which is more important to you, your family and your fellow citizens.
    ...
    Personally, I'm glad he at least made us aware that this is going on. As to stopping our government from carrying on these operations... it may be a necessary means to prevent tragedies. I don't like it... but, i understand why it is being done.

    After 9/11 we were told that the Patriot Act needed to be put in place in order to stop it from happening again, and people bought it. I don't buy it, because what we had in place prior to 9/11 was sufficient to stop it from happening.

    Maybe I'm not grasping the enormity of the leak, but on a smaller scale, isn't it the equivalent of letting people know that there's a cop ahead popping drivers with his radar gun? We knew what was in the Patriot Act, now this guy is letting us know some of the specifics.

    I think it's more along the lines of a cop sitting in your neighborhood with a scanner listening to your phone calls and a laptop that can access your email if he chooses to do so.

    in the Verizon records case they weren't listening to phone calls.

    and heroes don't run away and hide.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    What I find puzzling is that why choose Hong Kong and stay at a $500/night hotel and max your financial credit out???

    Why not head to Ecuador? They have already shown they would grant amnesty in a similar case. If you are making $200K / yr, why not penny pinch for the last 5 years and then go to Ecuador?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    pjhawks wrote:
    in the Verizon records case they weren't listening to phone calls.

    and heroes don't run away and hide.


    What nonsense, wan't to bet Bradley Manning wishes he ran away and hide.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,956
    Jason P wrote:
    What I find puzzling is that why choose Hong Kong and stay at a $500/night hotel and max your financial credit out???

    Why not head to Ecuador? They have already shown they would grant amnesty in a similar case. If you are making $200K / yr, why not penny pinch for the last 5 years and then go to Ecuador?

    could it be he is one someone's else payroll? if so I wonder if the people calling this guy a hero would change their minds.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    pjhawks wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    What I find puzzling is that why choose Hong Kong and stay at a $500/night hotel and max your financial credit out???

    Why not head to Ecuador? They have already shown they would grant amnesty in a similar case. If you are making $200K / yr, why not penny pinch for the last 5 years and then go to Ecuador?

    could it be he is one someone's else payroll? if so I wonder if the people calling this guy a hero would change their minds.
    It would not surprise me if we never hear from him again. Seems like China would get his info and dispose of him discreetly. Hell, he probably knows less then they do anyways. He is going to be nothing but a pain in the rear for them.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,516
    As someone who used to have a top-secret clearance I can tell you unequivocally that he is a traitor.

    I can see how to some he is a hero but in the eyes of the law he is a traitor.

    Besides how can you take seriously someone who says something like this...
    "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions,'' the Guardian quoted Mr. Snowden as saying. He said he would be satisfied "if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant.''

    What's next? Blaming the New World Order? ZOG? Obama is a Muslim Socialist from Kenya?

    UGH :fp:
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Jason P wrote:
    What I find puzzling is that why choose Hong Kong and stay at a $500/night hotel and max your financial credit out???

    Why not head to Ecuador? They have already shown they would grant amnesty in a similar case. If you are making $200K / yr, why not penny pinch for the last 5 years and then go to Ecuador?

    there's more this story than we know....but I'm sure the media sorces on the pay roll will have a grand story to tell soon enough, the obama admin will cover their asses with one lie after another to wiggle out of this..

    but that aside,where I come from we call guy's like him "rats" :lol: I dont concider him a hero or a traitor but he's got balls that's for sure...or he's just dumb as a box of rocks,he had to know that there is no place he can hide without having a ..car crash or a heart attack of fall off a bridge or even killed in a home invasion.. :shock:

    Godfather.
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    hero
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Yes this guy exposed what the Obama administration is doing. If you want to call him a hero, fine. The other side of this is that he has specific knowledge top secret information that can be very damaging to US security. China can offer this guy millions (or detain) this guy to get the sensitive information.

    That's why what he did isn't heroic, its stupidity. Yaaaaay, he pretty much confirmed what we already knew about the government. Lets just hope he doesn't spill the beans to China on the military info.
    Still forming my thoughts/opinions, but - and recognizing that most everyone's definitions of "hero" and "traitor" will vary...I think I'm with you on this.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Lets just hope he doesn't spill the beans to China on the military info.
    ...
    They should waterboard him. If it's okay with us... it's okay for them.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    productimage-picture-in-a-time-of-universal-deceit-orwell-523.gif
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    Cosmo wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Again, it is not that simple.
    Either we use these tools that can help to identify possible risks to our security, including the deaths of people... or we forfeit our liberties that protect us from our own government.
    You have to decide which is more important to you, your family and your fellow citizens.
    ...
    Personally, I'm glad he at least made us aware that this is going on. As to stopping our government from carrying on these operations... it may be a necessary means to prevent tragedies. I don't like it... but, i understand why it is being done.

    if that is the case - why does it have to be secret? ... why not with oversight?
    ...
    That is what I am hoping will happen. This practice has been revealed, so now... we are aware of it.
    On the flip side... so does the asshole that wants to unleash Anthrax at the food court at a mall and came devise counter measures to avoid exposure.


    The odd thing about whether or not this guy is a hero or not is that our government has been doing this for years. Long before terrorist groups the likes of Al Queda so says a former client of mine who was a spy through the cover of the State Dept.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Someone needs to leak a story about the NSA gathering information about people texting while they are driving.
    Either text or drive. You are constantly proving to the NSA that you are incapable of doing both at the same time and need to get sent to Guantanamo.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Yes this guy exposed what the Obama administration is doing. If you want to call him a hero, fine. The other side of this is that he has specific knowledge top secret information that can be very damaging to US security. China can offer this guy millions (or detain) this guy to get the sensitive information.

    That's why what he did isn't heroic, its stupidity. Yaaaaay, he pretty much confirmed what we already knew about the government. Lets just hope he doesn't spill the beans to China on the military info.

    I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed :)
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed :)
    ...
    Question: If everybody knew this was happening already... why are we shocked and making a big deal about it?
    ...
    Also... this wasn't one of your right wing conspiracies. Look.. when it turns out that President Obama is a Kenyan citizen... and that there was an indoctrination to Socialism subliminal message to those school kids... and that the government was injecting us with nano robots instead of flu vaccines... and that the Air Force is spraying us with mind control fog in the chemtrails of Doom... and that President Obama can create hurricanes and tornadoes... and that the murders at Sandy Hook was just an elaborate Hollywood style special effects illusion... and when the Army kicks down our doors to take away all of our guns... then, i'll apologise to you for all of your nutty conspiracy theories.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Traitor.

    So you believe the government should have the right to breach the Constitution, and act in total secrecy with no oversight or accountability?

    Funny that, because I thought America was a 'Democracy'?


    I get the impression that many Americans would be perfectly happy to live in a police state. I suppose for some people, the idea of absolving yourself of all responsibility, and allowing 'your superiors' to control every aspect of what you do, say, and think, is quite comforting - almost like a return to the womb.

    No wonder Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, found it so easy to lead so many people by the nose.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed :)
    ...
    Question: If everybody knew this was happening already... why are we shocked and making a big deal about it?
    ...
    Also... this wasn't one of your right wing conspiracies. Look.. when it turns out that President Obama is a Kenyan citizen... and that there was an indoctrination to Socialism subliminal message to those school kids... and that the government was injecting us with nano robots instead of flu vaccines... and that the Air Force is spraying us with mind control fog in the chemtrails of Doom... and that President Obama can create hurricanes and tornadoes... and that the murders at Sandy Hook was just an elaborate Hollywood style special effects illusion... and when the Army kicks down our doors to take away all of our guns... then, i'll apologise to you for all of your nutty conspiracy theories.

    Because it is confirmed that this administration is not up holding The Constitution and breaking laws. This is just one....

    DHS insider: It’s about to get very ugly

    “If anyone thinks that what’s going on right now with all of this surveillance of American citizens is to fight some sort of foreign enemy, they’re delusional. If people think that this ‘scandal’ can’t get any worse, it will, hour by hour, day by day. This has the ability to bring down our national leadership, the administration and other senior elected officials working in collusion with this administration, both Republican and Democrats. People within the NSA, the Department of Justice, and others, they know who they are, need to come forth with the documentation of ‘policy and practice’ in their possession, disclose what they know, fight what’s going on, and just do their job. I have never seen anything like this, ever. The present administration is going after leakers, media sources, anyone and everyone who is even suspected of ‘betrayal.’ That’s what they call it, ‘betrayal.’ Can you believe the size of their cahones? This administration considers anyone telling the truth about Benghazi, the IRS, hell, you name the issue, ‘betrayal,’” he said.

    “We know all this already,” I stated. He looked at me, giving me a look like I’ve never seen, and actually pushed his finger into my chest. “You don’t know jack,” he said, “this is bigger than you can imagine, bigger than anyone can imagine. This administration is collecting names of sources, whistle blowers and their families, names of media sources and everybody they talk to and have talked to, and they already have a huge list. If you’re not working for MSNBC or CNN, you’re probably on that list. If you are a website owner with a brisk readership and a conservative bent, you’re on that list. It’s a political dissident list, not an enemy threat list,” he stated.
    http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/55749
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Cosmo wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed :)
    ...
    Question: If everybody knew this was happening already... why are we shocked and making a big deal about it?
    ...
    Also... this wasn't one of your right wing conspiracies. Look.. when it turns out that President Obama is a Kenyan citizen... and that there was an indoctrination to Socialism subliminal message to those school kids... and that the government was injecting us with nano robots instead of flu vaccines... and that the Air Force is spraying us with mind control fog in the chemtrails of Doom... and that President Obama can create hurricanes and tornadoes... and that the murders at Sandy Hook was just an elaborate Hollywood style special effects illusion... and when the Army kicks down our doors to take away all of our guns... then, i'll apologise to you for all of your nutty conspiracy theories.
    Because now it is confirmed and not an conspiracy theory....
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
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