Yes this guy exposed what the Obama administration is doing. If you want to call him a hero, fine. The other side of this is that he has specific knowledge top secret information that can be very damaging to US security. China can offer this guy millions (or detain) this guy to get the sensitive information.
That's why what he did isn't heroic, its stupidity. Yaaaaay, he pretty much confirmed what we already knew about the government. Lets just hope he doesn't spill the beans to China on the military info.
Still forming my thoughts/opinions, but - and recognizing that most everyone's definitions of "hero" and "traitor" will vary...I think I'm with you on this.
Again, it is not that simple.
Either we use these tools that can help to identify possible risks to our security, including the deaths of people... or we forfeit our liberties that protect us from our own government.
You have to decide which is more important to you, your family and your fellow citizens.
...
Personally, I'm glad he at least made us aware that this is going on. As to stopping our government from carrying on these operations... it may be a necessary means to prevent tragedies. I don't like it... but, i understand why it is being done.
if that is the case - why does it have to be secret? ... why not with oversight?
...
That is what I am hoping will happen. This practice has been revealed, so now... we are aware of it.
On the flip side... so does the asshole that wants to unleash Anthrax at the food court at a mall and came devise counter measures to avoid exposure.
The odd thing about whether or not this guy is a hero or not is that our government has been doing this for years. Long before terrorist groups the likes of Al Queda so says a former client of mine who was a spy through the cover of the State Dept.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Someone needs to leak a story about the NSA gathering information about people texting while they are driving.
Either text or drive. You are constantly proving to the NSA that you are incapable of doing both at the same time and need to get sent to Guantanamo.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Yes this guy exposed what the Obama administration is doing. If you want to call him a hero, fine. The other side of this is that he has specific knowledge top secret information that can be very damaging to US security. China can offer this guy millions (or detain) this guy to get the sensitive information.
That's why what he did isn't heroic, its stupidity. Yaaaaay, he pretty much confirmed what we already knew about the government. Lets just hope he doesn't spill the beans to China on the military info.
I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed
...
Question: If everybody knew this was happening already... why are we shocked and making a big deal about it?
...
Also... this wasn't one of your right wing conspiracies. Look.. when it turns out that President Obama is a Kenyan citizen... and that there was an indoctrination to Socialism subliminal message to those school kids... and that the government was injecting us with nano robots instead of flu vaccines... and that the Air Force is spraying us with mind control fog in the chemtrails of Doom... and that President Obama can create hurricanes and tornadoes... and that the murders at Sandy Hook was just an elaborate Hollywood style special effects illusion... and when the Army kicks down our doors to take away all of our guns... then, i'll apologise to you for all of your nutty conspiracy theories.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So you believe the government should have the right to breach the Constitution, and act in total secrecy with no oversight or accountability?
Funny that, because I thought America was a 'Democracy'?
I get the impression that many Americans would be perfectly happy to live in a police state. I suppose for some people, the idea of absolving yourself of all responsibility, and allowing 'your superiors' to control every aspect of what you do, say, and think, is quite comforting - almost like a return to the womb.
No wonder Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, found it so easy to lead so many people by the nose.
I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed
...
Question: If everybody knew this was happening already... why are we shocked and making a big deal about it?
...
Also... this wasn't one of your right wing conspiracies. Look.. when it turns out that President Obama is a Kenyan citizen... and that there was an indoctrination to Socialism subliminal message to those school kids... and that the government was injecting us with nano robots instead of flu vaccines... and that the Air Force is spraying us with mind control fog in the chemtrails of Doom... and that President Obama can create hurricanes and tornadoes... and that the murders at Sandy Hook was just an elaborate Hollywood style special effects illusion... and when the Army kicks down our doors to take away all of our guns... then, i'll apologise to you for all of your nutty conspiracy theories.
Because it is confirmed that this administration is not up holding The Constitution and breaking laws. This is just one....
DHS insider: It’s about to get very ugly
“If anyone thinks that what’s going on right now with all of this surveillance of American citizens is to fight some sort of foreign enemy, they’re delusional. If people think that this ‘scandal’ can’t get any worse, it will, hour by hour, day by day. This has the ability to bring down our national leadership, the administration and other senior elected officials working in collusion with this administration, both Republican and Democrats. People within the NSA, the Department of Justice, and others, they know who they are, need to come forth with the documentation of ‘policy and practice’ in their possession, disclose what they know, fight what’s going on, and just do their job. I have never seen anything like this, ever. The present administration is going after leakers, media sources, anyone and everyone who is even suspected of ‘betrayal.’ That’s what they call it, ‘betrayal.’ Can you believe the size of their cahones? This administration considers anyone telling the truth about Benghazi, the IRS, hell, you name the issue, ‘betrayal,’” he said.
“We know all this already,” I stated. He looked at me, giving me a look like I’ve never seen, and actually pushed his finger into my chest. “You don’t know jack,” he said, “this is bigger than you can imagine, bigger than anyone can imagine. This administration is collecting names of sources, whistle blowers and their families, names of media sources and everybody they talk to and have talked to, and they already have a huge list. If you’re not working for MSNBC or CNN, you’re probably on that list. If you are a website owner with a brisk readership and a conservative bent, you’re on that list. It’s a political dissident list, not an enemy threat list,” he stated. http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/55749
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed
...
Question: If everybody knew this was happening already... why are we shocked and making a big deal about it?
...
Also... this wasn't one of your right wing conspiracies. Look.. when it turns out that President Obama is a Kenyan citizen... and that there was an indoctrination to Socialism subliminal message to those school kids... and that the government was injecting us with nano robots instead of flu vaccines... and that the Air Force is spraying us with mind control fog in the chemtrails of Doom... and that President Obama can create hurricanes and tornadoes... and that the murders at Sandy Hook was just an elaborate Hollywood style special effects illusion... and when the Army kicks down our doors to take away all of our guns... then, i'll apologise to you for all of your nutty conspiracy theories.
Because now it is confirmed and not an conspiracy theory....
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
So you believe the government should have the right to breach the Constitution, and act in total secrecy with no oversight or accountability?
Funny that, because I thought America was a 'Democracy'?
I get the impression that many Americans would be perfectly happy to live in a police state. I suppose for some people, the idea of absolving yourself of all responsibility, and allowing 'your superiors' to control every aspect of what you do, say, and think, is quite comforting - almost like a return to the womb.
No wonder Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, found it so easy to lead so many people by the nose.
Not at all what I said. What he did was illegal. Treasonous.
Because it is confirmed that this administration is not up holding The Constitution and breaking laws. This is just one....
DHS insider: It’s about to get very ugly
“If anyone thinks that what’s going on right now with all of this surveillance of American citizens is to fight some sort of foreign enemy, they’re delusional. If people think that this ‘scandal’ can’t get any worse, it will, hour by hour, day by day. This has the ability to bring down our national leadership, the administration and other senior elected officials working in collusion with this administration, both Republican and Democrats. People within the NSA, the Department of Justice, and others, they know who they are, need to come forth with the documentation of ‘policy and practice’ in their possession, disclose what they know, fight what’s going on, and just do their job. I have never seen anything like this, ever. The present administration is going after leakers, media sources, anyone and everyone who is even suspected of ‘betrayal.’ That’s what they call it, ‘betrayal.’ Can you believe the size of their cahones? This administration considers anyone telling the truth about Benghazi, the IRS, hell, you name the issue, ‘betrayal,’” he said.
“We know all this already,” I stated. He looked at me, giving me a look like I’ve never seen, and actually pushed his finger into my chest. “You don’t know jack,” he said, “this is bigger than you can imagine, bigger than anyone can imagine. This administration is collecting names of sources, whistle blowers and their families, names of media sources and everybody they talk to and have talked to, and they already have a huge list. If you’re not working for MSNBC or CNN, you’re probably on that list. If you are a website owner with a brisk readership and a conservative bent, you’re on that list. It’s a political dissident list, not an enemy threat list,” he stated. http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/55749
...
Okay... add this to the stuff about the Kenyan socialist who can create hurricanes and has injected us with mind control nano robots and all of that other stuff actually happening... and you'll get your apology. Promise.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So you believe the government should have the right to breach the Constitution, and act in total secrecy with no oversight or accountability?
Funny that, because I thought America was a 'Democracy'?
I get the impression that many Americans would be perfectly happy to live in a police state. I suppose for some people, the idea of absolving yourself of all responsibility, and allowing 'your superiors' to control every aspect of what you do, say, and think, is quite comforting - almost like a return to the womb.
No wonder Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, found it so easy to lead so many people by the nose.
Not at all what I said. What he did was illegal. Treasonous.
Arguably, what the government have been doing is illegal.
As for treason, when a tiny clique abuse their power to infringe on the civil liberties of the entire population, in breach of the U.S Constitution, then I'd say that constitutes treason. Though clearly you feel that a Democracy should function to the benefit of a small group of the rich and powerful, with no oversight, transparency, or accountability, and in violation of the supreme law of the land.
In no way shape or form do I think what the government is doing is right. But that doesn't mean that I want people with highly sensitive information whistleblowing to the public every chance they get. The wrong people can get a hold of this guy before we do and out comes everything he knows. There has to be a better way of doing it. Either way, I think that guy won't be alive by this time next year.
In no way shape or form do I think what the government is doing is right. But that doesn't mean that I want people with highly sensitive information whistleblowing to the public every chance they get. The wrong people can get a hold of this guy before we do and out comes everything he knows. There has to be a better way of doing it. Either way, I think that guy won't be alive by this time next year.
If the government ceased acting beyond it's remit, then there would be no need for these leaks to occur. When they abuse and exceed the power entrusted to them, then there will always be conscientious objectors ready and willing to reign them in.
The US and the West have notionally democratic systems, but certainly not very aspirational or truly democratic systems
We have a lack of aspiration to either maintain or extend democracy in any real sense, whilst every pressure is on a reduction of accountability, and a reduction of meaningful representation, and participation.
And if you're brave enough to reveal this truth to the public with concrete evidence, then you're branded a traitor, and sent off for a show trial - à la Bradley Manning.
In no way shape or form do I think what the government is doing is right. But that doesn't mean that I want people with highly sensitive information whistleblowing to the public every chance they get. The wrong people can get a hold of this guy before we do and out comes everything he knows. There has to be a better way of doing it. Either way, I think that guy won't be alive by this time next year.
If the government ceased acting beyond it's remit, then there would be no need for these leaks to occur. When they abuse and exceed the power entrusted to them, then there will always be conscientious objectors ready and willing to reign them in.
So you believe the government should have the right to breach the Constitution, and act in total secrecy with no oversight or accountability?
Funny that, because I thought America was a 'Democracy'?
I get the impression that many Americans would be perfectly happy to live in a police state. I suppose for some people, the idea of absolving yourself of all responsibility, and allowing 'your superiors' to control every aspect of what you do, say, and think, is quite comforting - almost like a return to the womb.
No wonder Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, found it so easy to lead so many people by the nose.
Good to see .02% of our population buys into all this over inflated BS. Continue on with the angry letters written under a bare bulb in the basement to our government....
Good to see .02% of our population buys into all this over inflated BS. Continue on with the angry letters written under a bare bulb in the basement to our government....
...
If you sign this, you probably go on the NSA's 'Naughty' list.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Many politicians are calling this guy a traitor and saying what he did was treason. Treason is defined as giving info/comfort to the enemy. He released info to the American public. Does that mean these politicians believe that the American public is the enemy? I'm sure some do.
Many politicians are calling this guy a traitor and saying what he did was treason. Treason is defined as giving info/comfort to the enemy. He released info to the American public. Does that mean these politicians believe that the American public is the enemy? I'm sure some do.
You don't think that the chaos, mayhem, and ever increasing anger this seems to be causing gives comfort to American enemies?
Comments
They should waterboard him. If it's okay with us... it's okay for them.
Hail, Hail!!!
The odd thing about whether or not this guy is a hero or not is that our government has been doing this for years. Long before terrorist groups the likes of Al Queda so says a former client of mine who was a spy through the cover of the State Dept.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Either text or drive. You are constantly proving to the NSA that you are incapable of doing both at the same time and need to get sent to Guantanamo.
Hail, Hail!!!
I think everyone including Al-Qaeda knew this was happening.....but when people here in the USA would say it is happening they were being accused of paranoia, a conspiracy theorist or just dumb and ignorant.....Now it is confirmed
Question: If everybody knew this was happening already... why are we shocked and making a big deal about it?
...
Also... this wasn't one of your right wing conspiracies. Look.. when it turns out that President Obama is a Kenyan citizen... and that there was an indoctrination to Socialism subliminal message to those school kids... and that the government was injecting us with nano robots instead of flu vaccines... and that the Air Force is spraying us with mind control fog in the chemtrails of Doom... and that President Obama can create hurricanes and tornadoes... and that the murders at Sandy Hook was just an elaborate Hollywood style special effects illusion... and when the Army kicks down our doors to take away all of our guns... then, i'll apologise to you for all of your nutty conspiracy theories.
Hail, Hail!!!
So you believe the government should have the right to breach the Constitution, and act in total secrecy with no oversight or accountability?
Funny that, because I thought America was a 'Democracy'?
I get the impression that many Americans would be perfectly happy to live in a police state. I suppose for some people, the idea of absolving yourself of all responsibility, and allowing 'your superiors' to control every aspect of what you do, say, and think, is quite comforting - almost like a return to the womb.
No wonder Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, found it so easy to lead so many people by the nose.
Because it is confirmed that this administration is not up holding The Constitution and breaking laws. This is just one....
DHS insider: It’s about to get very ugly
“If anyone thinks that what’s going on right now with all of this surveillance of American citizens is to fight some sort of foreign enemy, they’re delusional. If people think that this ‘scandal’ can’t get any worse, it will, hour by hour, day by day. This has the ability to bring down our national leadership, the administration and other senior elected officials working in collusion with this administration, both Republican and Democrats. People within the NSA, the Department of Justice, and others, they know who they are, need to come forth with the documentation of ‘policy and practice’ in their possession, disclose what they know, fight what’s going on, and just do their job. I have never seen anything like this, ever. The present administration is going after leakers, media sources, anyone and everyone who is even suspected of ‘betrayal.’ That’s what they call it, ‘betrayal.’ Can you believe the size of their cahones? This administration considers anyone telling the truth about Benghazi, the IRS, hell, you name the issue, ‘betrayal,’” he said.
“We know all this already,” I stated. He looked at me, giving me a look like I’ve never seen, and actually pushed his finger into my chest. “You don’t know jack,” he said, “this is bigger than you can imagine, bigger than anyone can imagine. This administration is collecting names of sources, whistle blowers and their families, names of media sources and everybody they talk to and have talked to, and they already have a huge list. If you’re not working for MSNBC or CNN, you’re probably on that list. If you are a website owner with a brisk readership and a conservative bent, you’re on that list. It’s a political dissident list, not an enemy threat list,” he stated.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/55749
Okay... add this to the stuff about the Kenyan socialist who can create hurricanes and has injected us with mind control nano robots and all of that other stuff actually happening... and you'll get your apology. Promise.
Hail, Hail!!!
Arguably, what the government have been doing is illegal.
As for treason, when a tiny clique abuse their power to infringe on the civil liberties of the entire population, in breach of the U.S Constitution, then I'd say that constitutes treason. Though clearly you feel that a Democracy should function to the benefit of a small group of the rich and powerful, with no oversight, transparency, or accountability, and in violation of the supreme law of the land.
If the government ceased acting beyond it's remit, then there would be no need for these leaks to occur. When they abuse and exceed the power entrusted to them, then there will always be conscientious objectors ready and willing to reign them in.
We have a lack of aspiration to either maintain or extend democracy in any real sense, whilst every pressure is on a reduction of accountability, and a reduction of meaningful representation, and participation.
And if you're brave enough to reveal this truth to the public with concrete evidence, then you're branded a traitor, and sent off for a show trial - à la Bradley Manning.
Great topic Godfather. It's great to see some members on here who usually disagree agree and vice versa.
In my mind he is a Hero.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22850901
100% dead on Byrnzie. Couldn't agree more.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... n/Dp03vGYD
Nice reference- this was a great movie. Early Sean Penn.
I am keeping my eye out.
maybe get a pic with him, his autograph and a few beers in Lan kwai Fong
Take him to that same club you took me.
Ha! he may be there now.
If you sign this, you probably go on the NSA's 'Naughty' list.
Hail, Hail!!!
You don't think that the chaos, mayhem, and ever increasing anger this seems to be causing gives comfort to American enemies?