Im glad you do too. It may balance it for you.. but not the rest of the USA. Its really too bad that so many hate groups adopted the flag really. or maybe its too bad something else with less negative implications hasnt come along to take its place, to represent pride for ones ancestry. No matter what, its a controversial symbol.. unfortunately for the few who do like it for harmless reasons.
I will agree it is too bad about hate groups adopting the flag but the way people are so quick
to generalize and hate ALL is no better than the hate groups themselves.
The hypocrisy there speaks volumes to character.
Then those who have forgiven, embraced, have love and kindness in their hearts
are called stupid and insensitive ... go figure. :fp:
No one in this thread has once said anything about hating ALL as you say. I have no idea what you're talking about. But yes, it's either stupid or insensitive to stick up for a symbol of bigotry and slavery in America just out of stubbornness. I don't find it kind or loving for someone to bolster a symbol that to most is a symbol that glorifies the disgusting history of slavery, oppression, bigotry and racially motivated murder just because you happen to have a different idea about it. You know what it means to most most people, but don't care. That isn't kind or loving at all. It's selfish. That's not hateful for me to say that.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The difference here is a hate group adopted a flag for their purposes, not everyones.
This flag is not a symbol of hate for everyone but a historic flag their lost loved ones fought for,
died for, it is here to stay for a reason.
Not sure how a rapper condoning drugging a girl with Molly without her knowing it and taking
her home and raping her has anything to do with a historic flag.
He was a person endorsing a product who made a very bad decision.
Read it again, it is pretty clear. It is symbolism...Ross was a symbol of a lifestyle for Reebok...that changed when he released that song with the lyrics in question. The meaning of symbols change.
in the highlighted part above you are making a distinction without a difference Pandora. I have already acknowledged that not all who would ever look at or display the flag think of it as a symbol of racism...BUT when the majority of a society do look at it that way that is what it means for good or bad...that is what I meant by social construct earlier. It may not be fair to those who don't display it for bigotry, but Fair is where you go to buy a pig, because life ain't it.
I'm glad you are not in charge .You would not be fair at all. In fact don't you preach freedom?
freedoms?
I'm glad that those of pure intention and heart can still honor their ancestors
and others can embrace love, kindness and forgiveness. These are all positive things.
This in spite of the closed minded generalists.
I'm glad we can still have some positivity and not succumb to hate. Because that is what
the good folk here are doing in the name of family, history and Southern pride,
when some think they are being stupid and insensitive :crazy:
So next time you see a flag know the intention even if you don't think that person should display it.
It matters that they display for good.
Yes, I enjoyed it as well. He made excellent points about why people in the south would have fought the Civil War and supported secession. However, all his points explained why they supported slavery, for religious, political, or economic reasons and in no way does this excuse someone from today for supporting the use of this flag for personal reaons. I am a lifelong resident of the south. I have family members who also believe this flag represents their southern pride. They also insist they are not racist and are not supporting the racist ideology of this war. However, they are indeed racist and do not realize that the pervasive attitudes of many within the south, especially the deep south, are racist.
I thought I was to ignore you... can I reply?
yes I know what he wrote was about and yes it was not to support how I feel it was to
bring a light to those who read about the times and what some Southerners faced.
You know racists, this is your life experiences, negative from what we can read.
But hopefully you realize not ALL are racist nor carry and honor the flag for that reason.
The people that I know are good people. They don't think they are racist and they do not mean any harm when they use this flag as a sign of their southern heritage but they do harm whether they admit it or not. Do you acknowledge and agree with the points the historian made about the reasons southerners supported and fought the war? Isn't fighting for slavery, the peculiar institution, their way of life based on a system of slavery, inherently racist?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Im glad you do too. It may balance it for you.. but not the rest of the USA. Its really too bad that so many hate groups adopted the flag really. or maybe its too bad something else with less negative implications hasnt come along to take its place, to represent pride for ones ancestry. No matter what, its a controversial symbol.. unfortunately for the few who do like it for harmless reasons.
I will agree it is too bad about hate groups adopting the flag but the way people are so quick
to generalize and hate ALL is no better than the hate groups themselves.
The hypocrisy there speaks volumes to character.
Then those who have forgiven, embraced, have love and kindness in their hearts
are called stupid and insensitive ... go figure. :fp:
No one in this thread has once said anything about hating ALL as you say. I have no idea what you're talking about. But yes, it's either stupid or insensitive to stick up for a symbol of bigotry and slavery in America just out of stubbornness. I don't find it kind or loving for someone to bolster a symbol that to most is a symbol that glorifies the disgusting history of slavery, oppression, bigotry and racially motivated murder just because you happen to have a different idea about it. You knkw what it means to most most people, bu don't care. That isn't kind or loving at all. It's selfish.
I noticed how much you embrace and try to understand those who carry the flag
that have good intentions and why they do. So who is stubborn and insensitive?
And yes they will continue to carry, display and honor their flag.
Good thing they are free to do so.
I have a feeling some here might want to remove the Freedom of Speech as well :shock:
uh oh....
whole nother thread.
yes I know what he wrote was about and yes it was not to support how I feel it was to
bring a light to those who read about the times and what some Southerners faced.
You know racists, this is your life experiences, negative from what we can read.
But hopefully you realize not ALL are racist nor carry and honor the flag for that reason.
The people that I know are good people. They don't think they are racist and they do not mean any harm when they use this flag as a sign of their southern heritage but they do harm whether they admit it or not. Do you acknowledge and agree with the points the historian made about the reasons southerners supported and fought the war? Isn't fighting for slavery, the peculiar institution, their way of life based on a system of slavery, inherently racist?
You think it is racist to display the flag that is clear. From the start of this thread it is you who are
offended by the flag and ALL who fly it. You think of it as a symbol of racism.
When to some it is not. Your very own loved ones it is not.
It is you who can not see the difference between using the flag to honor
lost patriots in a historic way and those who do in a racist way, in hate groups.
I see a big difference. Your family too I guess.
I posted the article because I like all his reads and because I wanted to show the influences
of the times on the common man in the South who did not own slaves. What made him fight?
Lose his life? What still has him being remembered and honored today by some?
This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with history.
Didn't the American Flag as we know it today more or less "replace" the confederate flag?
Whenever I see the confederate flag or sticker of it, I think that the person displaying it still wants to hold to the southern beliefs that once split the country--and the biggest split as we all know was the issue of slavery
I can see keeping the conferate flag as a memorial If a person's ancestors died in the civil war as a member of the conferate army.
But when I see it displayed, it leaves a sort of bad taste in my mouth because I think the person is trying to make a statement about wanting the country to still be split
I will agree it is too bad about hate groups adopting the flag but the way people are so quick
to generalize and hate ALL is no better than the hate groups themselves.
The hypocrisy there speaks volumes to character.
Then those who have forgiven, embraced, have love and kindness in their hearts
are called stupid and insensitive ... go figure. :fp:
No one in this thread has once said anything about hating ALL as you say. I have no idea what you're talking about. But yes, it's either stupid or insensitive to stick up for a symbol of bigotry and slavery in America just out of stubbornness. I don't find it kind or loving for someone to bolster a symbol that to most is a symbol that glorifies the disgusting history of slavery, oppression, bigotry and racially motivated murder just because you happen to have a different idea about it. You knkw what it means to most most people, bu don't care. That isn't kind or loving at all. It's selfish.
I noticed how much you embrace and try to understand those who carry the flag
that have good intentions and why they do. So who is stubborn and insensitive?
And yes they will continue to carry, display and honor their flag.
Good thing they are free to do so.
I have a feeling some here might want to remove the Freedom of Speech as well :shock:
uh oh....
whole nother thread.
Why are you taking it there?? That is a very cheap little argument to throw in, the free speech comment, and has nothing to do with what anyone is saying. No one has suggested even remotely that people don't have the right to display a symbol. We are talking about our opinions about what that symbol means and why it can't be benign no matter who wishes that it were. And then you go and accuse us of perhaps being against free speech, because we have our own opinions? That's dirty.
And I'm not about to embrace those who want to do something that hurts other people. If I did, THAT would be insensitive.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Didn't the American Flag as we know it today more or less "replace" the confederate flag?
Whenever I see the confederate flag or sticker of it, I think that the person displaying it still wants to hold to the southern beliefs that once split the country--and the biggest split as we all know was the issue of slavery
I can see keeping the conferate flag as a memorial If a person's ancestors died in the civil war as a member of the conferate army.
But when I see it displayed, it leaves a sort of bad taste in my mouth because I think the person is trying to make a statement about wanting the country to still be split
That's what I think too.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Call me naive, but I would think that a 'native' would probably have more of an overall insight as to the 'ways' of the south (or wherever).
I have been living in my 'host country' for many, many years and encountered, worked with, lived with all kinds of different people with different views pertaining to the country (or rather some areas of the country) but all within certain circles I 'move' in (which is normal). Even after all these years, I would never even think that I have as much of a broad and in depth (yes, may seem contradictory but it not really..) knowledge as a native, a life-long resident.
I know a few lovely people who fly this flag to honor their ancestors and show their 'southern pride' (whatever that may be) and are not racist.
and/or
Due to it's history and the history of the South, the flag is a symbol of racism and oppression for a majority of people - black (especially), white, etc.. No hate involved (after all, 'hate' towards a bit of fabric is just silly. And, whilst I know the word 'haters' has been used and directed towards people, it's an asinie notion here - we are talking symbol) - but justifiable offense when it is displayed without consideration by certain people (ie perhaps arrogantly by a part of the population that still have 'certain attitudes'.
and/or
It has been taken over as a symbol for white supremacy (for obvious reasons) and it is understood as such by the large majority of people. These are the people that need to be described as haters.... not those who take offense to a symbol.
Take your pick....
Those who generalize and do not differentiate between why someone flies the flag
lumping those who choose to honor the flag with those who hate...
That is what haters do... they generalize and hate.
It has nothing to do with being offended it has everything to do with not accepting
those who fly the flag for noble reasons. It is calling those people stupid and insensitive.
It is implying they should not honor because a hate group has used their flag as a symbol.
Hate the hate groups, those that deserve it and leave those who have good motives alone
and recognize them for that.
The difference here is a hate group adopted a flag for their purposes, not everyones.
This flag is not a symbol of hate for everyone but a historic flag their lost loved ones fought for,
died for, it is here to stay for a reason.
Not sure how a rapper condoning drugging a girl with Molly without her knowing it and taking
her home and raping her has anything to do with a historic flag.
He was a person endorsing a product who made a very bad decision.
Read it again, it is pretty clear. It is symbolism...Ross was a symbol of a lifestyle for Reebok...that changed when he released that song with the lyrics in question. The meaning of symbols change.
in the highlighted part above you are making a distinction without a difference Pandora. I have already acknowledged that not all who would ever look at or display the flag think of it as a symbol of racism...BUT when the majority of a society do look at it that way that is what it means for good or bad...that is what I meant by social construct earlier. It may not be fair to those who don't display it for bigotry, but Fair is where you go to buy a pig, because life ain't it.
I'm glad you are not in charge .You would not be fair at all. In fact don't you preach freedom?
freedoms?
I'm glad that those of pure intention and heart can still honor their ancestors
and others can embrace love, kindness and forgiveness. These are all positive things.
This in spite of the closed minded generalists.
I'm glad we can still have some positivity and not succumb to hate. Because that is what
the good folk here are doing in the name of family, history and Southern pride,
when some think they are being stupid and insensitive :crazy:
So next time you see a flag know the intention even if you don't think that person should display it. It matters that they display for good.
No it doesnt matter. I don't care if they were Stonewall Jackson's grandchild. Display his hat, that isn't a symbol of hate...display the uniform, that isn't a symbol of hate, display the flag and I will call you ignorant at best.
It has nothing to do with me being fair, where did that come from? ...I said it might not be fair the the symbol as been deconstructed from what you say it means and socially constructed to be a symbol for bigotry. It may not be fair, but that is the way it is.
I am not saying make it illegal, so yes I am for freedom. I am just saying that if you are going to be a member of a society you should work to be the best member you can be. Acknowledging how something makes someone else feel is part of that. So you are free to wave it however you see fit, I am just free to think whatever I want about someone who does
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
yes I know what he wrote was about and yes it was not to support how I feel it was to
bring a light to those who read about the times and what some Southerners faced.
You know racists, this is your life experiences, negative from what we can read.
But hopefully you realize not ALL are racist nor carry and honor the flag for that reason.
The people that I know are good people. They don't think they are racist and they do not mean any harm when they use this flag as a sign of their southern heritage but they do harm whether they admit it or not. Do you acknowledge and agree with the points the historian made about the reasons southerners supported and fought the war? Isn't fighting for slavery, the peculiar institution, their way of life based on a system of slavery, inherently racist?
You think it is racist to display the flag that is clear. From the start of this thread it is you who are
offended by the flag and ALL who fly it. You think of it as a symbol of racism.
When to some it is not. Your very own loved ones it is not.
It is you who can not see the difference between using the flag to honor
lost patriots in a historic way and those who do in a racist way, in hate groups.
I see a big difference. Your family too I guess.
I posted the article because I like all his reads and because I wanted to show the influences
of the times on the common man in the South who did not own slaves. What made him fight?
Lose his life? What still has him being remembered and honored today by some?
This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with history.
I never said ALL but fine I will take that bait. As a southerner who has had to listen to Confederate flag defenders for the entirety of my life, unlike you who has lived outside of the south for the majority of your life, it is racist to fly the flag on your front porch or on your car. People, like my family, like you, like your friends, can twist the meaning all you want but if you actually understood ANY of the history of the South or the Civil War then you would understand that SLAVERY is RACIST. You can twist the facts any way you like but that flag does nothing but represent the hatred of an entire ethnic/racial group. Anyone who lives in the south today knows that racism is alive and well, especially in a deep south state like GA. There are Jim Crow laws still in existence - many counties refuse to remove them from the laws 'because of their historical significance'. There are places in the deep south that still have signage denoting the Jim Crow laws and they are not removed 'for historical significance'. These are racist things NOT historical things. I, and others on here, have acknowledged the historical signficance of this flag. I, and others have acknowledged, that there are instances in which flying the flag is acceptable but to use it to 'honor the dead' or to represent southern pride is not acceptable. I do feel very strongly about this because I have to live this shit every damn day of my life. I am tired of racist rednecks without an iota of historical knowledge proclaiming their southern pride in an institution that dehumanized and HATED blacks. Religion excused it away, economic institutions excused it, politicians used it to their advantage. For shame, that southerners think that what this flag SYMBOLIZES, is anything to take pride in. I take a deep pride in being from the south. I take pride in things like calling my carbonated beverage a coke. I take pride in the totally amazing sweet tea and fried chicken that I make. I take pride in the ingrained sense of politeness, graciousness, and willingness to help others that is inherent in the south. I take pride in the care we bestow on our historical monuments and our willingness to change on so many accounts. But racism is alive and well in the south. And I find your defense of a symbol that is about hate and is about racism, and not about history, offensive.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Didn't the American Flag as we know it today more or less "replace" the confederate flag?
Whenever I see the confederate flag or sticker of it, I think that the person displaying it still wants to hold to the southern beliefs that once split the country--and the biggest split as we all know was the issue of slavery
I can see keeping the conferate flag as a memorial If a person's ancestors died in the civil war as a member of the conferate army.
But when I see it displayed, it leaves a sort of bad taste in my mouth because I think the person is trying to make a statement about wanting the country to still be split
I might have thought that as a Yankee and we see some here do. Not anymore.
I have met those who honor loved ones.
I know a few lovely people who fly this flag to honor their ancestors and show their 'southern pride' (whatever that may be) and are not racist.
and/or
Due to it's history and the history of the South, the flag is a symbol of racism and oppression for a majority of people - black (especially), white, etc.. No hate involved (after all, 'hate' towards a bit of fabric is just silly. And, whilst I know the word 'haters' has been used and directed towards people, it's an asinie notion here - we are talking symbol) - but justifiable offense when it is displayed without consideration by certain people (ie perhaps arrogantly by a part of the population that still have 'certain attitudes'.
and/or
It has been taken over as a symbol for white supremacy (for obvious reasons) and it is understood as such by the large majority of people. These are the people that need to be described as haters.... not those who take offense to a symbol.
Take your pick....
Those who generalize and do not differentiate between why someone flies the flag
lumping those who choose to honor the flag with those who hate...
That is what haters do... they generalize and hate.
It has nothing to do with being offended it has everything to do with not accepting
those who fly the flag for noble reasons. It is calling those people stupid and insensitive.
It is implying they should not honor because a hate group has used their flag as a symbol.
Hate the hate groups, those that deserve it and leave those who have good motives alone
and recognize them for that.
I agree with the hate the hate groups but from an outsiders point of view how would we know who's who and the reasons for flying the flag , if i see a pickup truck with this flag on the backwindsheild my 1st thought is not "oh look at that southern man displaying his love for hi's heritage "
I am not saying make it illegal, so yes I am for freedom. I am just saying that if you are going to be a member of a society you should work to be the best member you can be. Acknowledging how something makes someone else feel is part of that. So you are free to wave it however you see fit, I am just free to think whatever I want about someone who does
Ya know, I've been thinking this as well. If you fly a symbol that stands for racism, whether you are for it or against it, then you don't care what anyone else thinks. And that's fine. But don't expect me to treat you with respect or dignity. When knowingly flying a flag that universally represents oppression of a race and a war that was not won, you then can assume that people think the worst of you, because they likely do. Regardless of what you feel. Because flying that flag is showing a major source of disrespect to an entire race (when not flown in a historical way).
I never said ALL but fine I will take that bait. As a southerner who has had to listen to Confederate flag defenders for the entirety of my life, unlike you who has lived outside of the south for the majority of your life, it is racist to fly the flag on your front porch or on your car. People, like my family, like you, like your friends, can twist the meaning all you want but if you actually understood ANY of the history of the South or the Civil War then you would understand that SLAVERY is RACIST. You can twist the facts any way you like but that flag does nothing but represent the hatred of an entire ethnic/racial group. Anyone who lives in the south today knows that racism is alive and well, especially in a deep south state like GA. There are Jim Crow laws still in existence - many counties refuse to remove them from the laws 'because of their historical significance'. There are places in the deep south that still have signage denoting the Jim Crow laws and they are not removed 'for historical significance'. These are racist things NOT historical things. I, and others on here, have acknowledged the historical signficance of this flag. I, and others have acknowledged, that there are instances in which flying the flag is acceptable but to use it to 'honor the dead' or to represent southern pride is not acceptable. I do feel very strongly about this because I have to live this shit every damn day of my life. I am tired of racist rednecks without an iota of historical knowledge proclaiming their southern pride in an institution that dehumanized and HATED blacks. Religion excused it away, economic institutions excused it, politicians used it to their advantage. For shame, that southerners think that what this flag SYMBOLIZES, is anything to take pride in. I take a deep pride in being from the south. I take pride in things like calling my carbonated beverage a coke. I take pride in the totally amazing sweet tea and fried chicken that I make. I take pride in the ingrained sense of politeness, graciousness, and willingness to help others that is inherent in the south. I take pride in the care we bestow on our historical monuments and our willingness to change on so many accounts. But racism is alive and well in the south. And I find your defense of a symbol that is about hate and is about racism, and not about history, offensive.
Can anyone explain why some have such lust or love for a FLAG to begin with? What's with the love affair? I know that I don't need any stinking flag to symbolize my love of whatever country/state/universe/planet/galaxy I'm from. I don't need a piece of fabric on a stick to represent who I am, so why do others? I get that it's history, I get that it coincides with military duty, etc. But flags in general only have the use that one puts into them. If they're signified with a universal negative connotation (as the Confederate is) then why be a source of disrespect to the rest of human civilization? Why bother?
What I have loved the most in the South is how important
history is to some. The tracing of their family trees. The integration of black and white
and the gentleness, politeness of Southerners.
Can anyone explain why some have such lust or love for a FLAG to begin with? What's with the love affair? I know that I don't need any stinking flag to symbolize my love of whatever country/state/universe/planet/galaxy I'm from. I don't need a piece of fabric on a stick to represent who I am, so why do others? I get that it's history, I get that it coincides with military duty, etc. But flags in general only have the use that one puts into them. If they're signified with a universal negative connotation (as the Confederate is) then why be a source of disrespect to the rest of human civilization? Why bother?
Yes why bother indeed. :? You don't see as much why bother here in the South.
I guess you must not be a PJ poster person either...
kind of the same idea.
I know a few lovely people who fly this flag to honor their ancestors and show their 'southern pride' (whatever that may be) and are not racist.
and/or
Due to it's history and the history of the South, the flag is a symbol of racism and oppression for a majority of people - black (especially), white, etc.. No hate involved (after all, 'hate' towards a bit of fabric is just silly. And, whilst I know the word 'haters' has been used and directed towards people, it's an asinie notion here - we are talking symbol) - but justifiable offense when it is displayed without consideration by certain people (ie perhaps arrogantly by a part of the population that still have 'certain attitudes'.
and/or
It has been taken over as a symbol for white supremacy (for obvious reasons) and it is understood as such by the large majority of people. These are the people that need to be described as haters.... not those who take offense to a symbol.
Take your pick....
Those who generalize and do not differentiate between why someone flies the flag
lumping those who choose to honor the flag with those who hate...
That is what haters do... they generalize and hate.
It has nothing to do with being offended it has everything to do with not accepting
those who fly the flag for noble reasons. It is calling those people stupid and insensitive.
It is implying they should not honor because a hate group has used their flag as a symbol.
Hate the hate groups, those that deserve it and leave those who have good motives alone
and recognize them for that.
I agree with the hate the hate groups but from an outsiders point of view how would we know who's who and the reasons for flying the flag , if i see a pickup truck with this flag on the backwindsheild my 1st thought is not "oh look at that southern man displaying his love for hi's heritage "
I do because I have met people who display the flag with noble intentions ...
my life experiences.
Maybe if we could try to judge less and give people the benefit of the doubt more.
That has gradually happened to me over the years. To hate and assume someone is
a hater because they have the flag displayed is saying ALL....
when it is some.
Can anyone explain why some have such lust or love for a FLAG to begin with? What's with the love affair? I know that I don't need any stinking flag to symbolize my love of whatever country/state/universe/planet/galaxy I'm from. I don't need a piece of fabric on a stick to represent who I am, so why do others? I get that it's history, I get that it coincides with military duty, etc. But flags in general only have the use that one puts into them. If they're signified with a universal negative connotation (as the Confederate is) then why be a source of disrespect to the rest of human civilization? Why bother?
This is what I find so confusing. I can understand pride. I understand wanting others to know you are proud of your great great great great great grandfather. But to do so, knowing there are many/entire races that find it offensive... honestly, even if someone has ZERO negative motives, you'd think they might reconsider just out of respect, and as Mike said, display a hat or uniform, or put a civil war history book on your goddamn coffee table or something... :?
At best, the flag now represents Southern stupidity, for not getting that the Southern pride factor of this flag is dead.
(And what IS the Southern pride thing anyway?? Sometimes I get the impression that you "Southern Pride" people wouldn't much care if there was another civil war. I thought you were all supposed to be Americans! I totally vet regional pride and identity, but the Southern pride thing has a very "us vs you" thing going on, and you feel so strongly about it that you fly a flag that not only is a symbol for hate now, but also highlights the fight between the north and south in the civil war, and that you guys aren't over the fight yet (which is strange, because if the south had won slavery wouldn't have ended).
it is weird as shit in the south. they don't like that they lost. this is a fact.
At best, the flag now represents Southern stupidity, for not getting that the Southern pride factor of this flag is dead.
(And what IS the Southern pride thing anyway?? Sometimes I get the impression that you "Southern Pride" people wouldn't much care if there was another civil war. I thought you were all supposed to be Americans! I totally vet regional pride and identity, but the Southern pride thing has a very "us vs you" thing going on, and you feel so strongly about it that you fly a flag that not only is a symbol for hate now, but also highlights the fight between the north and south in the civil war, and that you guys aren't over the fight yet (which is strange, because if the south had won slavery wouldn't have ended).
it is weird as shit in the south. they don't like that they lost. this is a fact.
You may just be right. I thought it was a joke a few pages back: "The South will rise again!"
I used to tease my friends in texas. they teased me about we'll get you fuckers next go 'round. redneck hillbillies will fight again & they are this stubborn & will not back down until many lie in death's arms. true hardcore southern fucking assholes wanna "get 'er done" right today actually
Can anyone explain why some have such lust or love for a FLAG to begin with? What's with the love affair? I know that I don't need any stinking flag to symbolize my love of whatever country/state/universe/planet/galaxy I'm from. I don't need a piece of fabric on a stick to represent who I am, so why do others? I get that it's history, I get that it coincides with military duty, etc. But flags in general only have the use that one puts into them. If they're signified with a universal negative connotation (as the Confederate is) then why be a source of disrespect to the rest of human civilization? Why bother?
i love marijuana but do i announce this fact with a flag? i love cow shit because it is a wonderful fertilizer but do i wave a cow shit flag from my white trash house? no i do not. i love love love spinach salads, but do i fly a fucking spinach god damn flag? nope
my mother's great great great basdasses are these barbaric vikings who lived true to the norse lifestyle. do i sail a big huge viking barbaric flag reading with symbols, fire, axes, blood, swords. dragon head ships & hoards. i love, love, love i'm a norse bastard, but vikings hurt a lot of people as people do well. i'd never wave a flag in another's face like some do the confederate flag.
my ancestors are erik the red, lief erikson & his brother thorvald. they and other fought with indians of north america. time to fly a flag i guess.
i love buck rogers & the 24 & a 1/2 century but do i fly the flag? no i don't.
I take pride in the totally amazing sweet tea and fried chicken that I make. .
ooOOoo... where did you say you lived and at what time do you serve dinner??
Fantastic post. (I got a bit distracted as it's dinner time here.. )
Come on over, ya'll! Although, I don't really care for sweet tea - too sweet for me! My Oaks Lily (vodka drink that is the official drink of the Oaks Race which is the day before the Kentucky Derby) is even better
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I take pride in the totally amazing sweet tea and fried chicken that I make. .
ooOOoo... where did you say you lived and at what time do you serve dinner??
Fantastic post. (I got a bit distracted as it's dinner time here.. )
Come on over, ya'll! Although, I don't really care for sweet tea - too sweet for me! My Oaks Lily (vodka drink that is the official drink of the Oaks Race which is the day before the Kentucky Derby) is even better
I want a Real Pulled Pork Sandwich and some Hush Puppies! Please.
Comments
freedoms?
I'm glad that those of pure intention and heart can still honor their ancestors
and others can embrace love, kindness and forgiveness. These are all positive things.
This in spite of the closed minded generalists.
I'm glad we can still have some positivity and not succumb to hate. Because that is what
the good folk here are doing in the name of family, history and Southern pride,
when some think they are being stupid and insensitive :crazy:
So next time you see a flag know the intention even if you don't think that person should display it.
It matters that they display for good.
The people that I know are good people. They don't think they are racist and they do not mean any harm when they use this flag as a sign of their southern heritage but they do harm whether they admit it or not. Do you acknowledge and agree with the points the historian made about the reasons southerners supported and fought the war? Isn't fighting for slavery, the peculiar institution, their way of life based on a system of slavery, inherently racist?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
that have good intentions and why they do. So who is stubborn and insensitive?
And yes they will continue to carry, display and honor their flag.
Good thing they are free to do so.
I have a feeling some here might want to remove the Freedom of Speech as well :shock:
uh oh....
whole nother thread.
offended by the flag and ALL who fly it. You think of it as a symbol of racism.
When to some it is not. Your very own loved ones it is not.
It is you who can not see the difference between using the flag to honor
lost patriots in a historic way and those who do in a racist way, in hate groups.
I see a big difference. Your family too I guess.
I posted the article because I like all his reads and because I wanted to show the influences
of the times on the common man in the South who did not own slaves. What made him fight?
Lose his life? What still has him being remembered and honored today by some?
This has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with history.
Whenever I see the confederate flag or sticker of it, I think that the person displaying it still wants to hold to the southern beliefs that once split the country--and the biggest split as we all know was the issue of slavery
I can see keeping the conferate flag as a memorial If a person's ancestors died in the civil war as a member of the conferate army.
But when I see it displayed, it leaves a sort of bad taste in my mouth because I think the person is trying to make a statement about wanting the country to still be split
And I'm not about to embrace those who want to do something that hurts other people. If I did, THAT would be insensitive.
Call me naive, but I would think that a 'native' would probably have more of an overall insight as to the 'ways' of the south (or wherever).
I have been living in my 'host country' for many, many years and encountered, worked with, lived with all kinds of different people with different views pertaining to the country (or rather some areas of the country) but all within certain circles I 'move' in (which is normal). Even after all these years, I would never even think that I have as much of a broad and in depth (yes, may seem contradictory but it not really..) knowledge as a native, a life-long resident.
lumping those who choose to honor the flag with those who hate...
That is what haters do... they generalize and hate.
It has nothing to do with being offended it has everything to do with not accepting
those who fly the flag for noble reasons. It is calling those people stupid and insensitive.
It is implying they should not honor because a hate group has used their flag as a symbol.
Hate the hate groups, those that deserve it and leave those who have good motives alone
and recognize them for that.
No it doesnt matter. I don't care if they were Stonewall Jackson's grandchild. Display his hat, that isn't a symbol of hate...display the uniform, that isn't a symbol of hate, display the flag and I will call you ignorant at best.
It has nothing to do with me being fair, where did that come from? ...I said it might not be fair the the symbol as been deconstructed from what you say it means and socially constructed to be a symbol for bigotry. It may not be fair, but that is the way it is.
I am not saying make it illegal, so yes I am for freedom. I am just saying that if you are going to be a member of a society you should work to be the best member you can be. Acknowledging how something makes someone else feel is part of that. So you are free to wave it however you see fit, I am just free to think whatever I want about someone who does
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I never said ALL but fine I will take that bait. As a southerner who has had to listen to Confederate flag defenders for the entirety of my life, unlike you who has lived outside of the south for the majority of your life, it is racist to fly the flag on your front porch or on your car. People, like my family, like you, like your friends, can twist the meaning all you want but if you actually understood ANY of the history of the South or the Civil War then you would understand that SLAVERY is RACIST. You can twist the facts any way you like but that flag does nothing but represent the hatred of an entire ethnic/racial group. Anyone who lives in the south today knows that racism is alive and well, especially in a deep south state like GA. There are Jim Crow laws still in existence - many counties refuse to remove them from the laws 'because of their historical significance'. There are places in the deep south that still have signage denoting the Jim Crow laws and they are not removed 'for historical significance'. These are racist things NOT historical things. I, and others on here, have acknowledged the historical signficance of this flag. I, and others have acknowledged, that there are instances in which flying the flag is acceptable but to use it to 'honor the dead' or to represent southern pride is not acceptable. I do feel very strongly about this because I have to live this shit every damn day of my life. I am tired of racist rednecks without an iota of historical knowledge proclaiming their southern pride in an institution that dehumanized and HATED blacks. Religion excused it away, economic institutions excused it, politicians used it to their advantage. For shame, that southerners think that what this flag SYMBOLIZES, is anything to take pride in. I take a deep pride in being from the south. I take pride in things like calling my carbonated beverage a coke. I take pride in the totally amazing sweet tea and fried chicken that I make. I take pride in the ingrained sense of politeness, graciousness, and willingness to help others that is inherent in the south. I take pride in the care we bestow on our historical monuments and our willingness to change on so many accounts. But racism is alive and well in the south. And I find your defense of a symbol that is about hate and is about racism, and not about history, offensive.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I have met those who honor loved ones.
I agree with the hate the hate groups but from an outsiders point of view how would we know who's who and the reasons for flying the flag , if i see a pickup truck with this flag on the backwindsheild my 1st thought is not "oh look at that southern man displaying his love for hi's heritage "
Ya know, I've been thinking this as well. If you fly a symbol that stands for racism, whether you are for it or against it, then you don't care what anyone else thinks. And that's fine. But don't expect me to treat you with respect or dignity. When knowingly flying a flag that universally represents oppression of a race and a war that was not won, you then can assume that people think the worst of you, because they likely do. Regardless of what you feel. Because flying that flag is showing a major source of disrespect to an entire race (when not flown in a historical way).
ooOOoo... where did you say you lived and at what time do you serve dinner??
Fantastic post. (I got a bit distracted as it's dinner time here..
history is to some. The tracing of their family trees. The integration of black and white
and the gentleness, politeness of Southerners.
I guess you must not be a PJ poster person either...
kind of the same idea.
my life experiences.
Maybe if we could try to judge less and give people the benefit of the doubt more.
That has gradually happened to me over the years. To hate and assume someone is
a hater because they have the flag displayed is saying ALL....
when it is some.
:? Wow. Not even close.. well except maybe the Creed fans might find it offensive. :P
This is what I find so confusing. I can understand pride. I understand wanting others to know you are proud of your great great great great great grandfather. But to do so, knowing there are many/entire races that find it offensive... honestly, even if someone has ZERO negative motives, you'd think they might reconsider just out of respect, and as Mike said, display a hat or uniform, or put a civil war history book on your goddamn coffee table or something... :?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Get 'em next time boys. Get 'em next time.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
my mother's great great great basdasses are these barbaric vikings who lived true to the norse lifestyle. do i sail a big huge viking barbaric flag reading with symbols, fire, axes, blood, swords. dragon head ships & hoards. i love, love, love i'm a norse bastard, but vikings hurt a lot of people as people do well. i'd never wave a flag in another's face like some do the confederate flag.
my ancestors are erik the red, lief erikson & his brother thorvald. they and other fought with indians of north america. time to fly a flag i guess.
i love buck rogers & the 24 & a 1/2 century but do i fly the flag? no i don't.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Come on over, ya'll! Although, I don't really care for sweet tea - too sweet for me! My Oaks Lily (vodka drink that is the official drink of the Oaks Race which is the day before the Kentucky Derby) is even better
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I want a Real Pulled Pork Sandwich and some Hush Puppies! Please.