Boston Marathon - explosion

dignin · April 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

I'm really surprised that on a rock bands website that so many are ok with the authorities extending their powers ... especially when the facts indicate the civilians were just as helpful and many cases were more helpful.

i agree..the problem is when u need to secure fast a situation,must take calls that leave no risk..i think they did that this time..
i dont know anyone with common sense that likes military in the street of the city..

I agree they acted fast and did what they thought was best. Doesn't make what they did right. We have every right to question this after the fact and learn what mistakes were made.

dignin · April 2013

redrock wrote:

I'm also thinking that from a policing and search point of view, having all kinds of people in the streets, gawking, trying to get some footage or photos on their cell phones to be able to put up on youtube or sell to the papers (the 'I was there' thing), etc. for their 15 minutes of fame would hinder the efforts of those trying to find the guy. Not only would they need to be super vigilant to their surroundings for their main purpose, they would have to be looking after the safety of the people out in the streets when a potentially dangerous person is on the loose in the neighbourhood.

Another point, easier to find a 'fugitive' trying to run away when no one else is in the street, as opposed to this fugitive melting away in a crowd.

If people hadn't been evacuated or told to stay in, I'd hate to think what the whole 'pointing of fingers' would be if one or more citizens got hurt or killed by a potential grenade/bomb/gun.

They just didn't know what this guy had on him/with him.

Just a couple of thoughts....

good points

dimitrispearljam · April 2013

redrock wrote:

I'm also thinking that from a policing and search point of view, having all kinds of people in the streets, gawking, trying to get some footage or photos on their cell phones to be able to put up on youtube or sell to the papers (the 'I was there' thing), etc. for their 15 minutes of fame would hinder the efforts of those trying to find the guy. Not only would they need to be super vigilant to their surroundings for their main purpose, they would have to be looking after the safety of the people out in the streets when a potentially dangerous person is on the loose in the neighbourhood.

Another point, easier to find a 'fugitive' trying to run away when no one else is in the street, as opposed to this fugitive melting away in a crowd.

If people hadn't been evacuated or told to stay in, I'd hate to think what the whole 'pointing of fingers' would be if one or more citizens got hurt or killed by a potential grenade/bomb/gun.

They just didn't know what this guy had on him/with him.

Just a couple of thoughts....

thats why ii said it so many times here in the forum in different topics..
rules of engagement .trained people.,..there are specific ways to search,secure area,keep safe public,atttack,disarm,arrest..is all a plan..there are policeman,military for trained every day for do this 2-3 times in their lifes..
they know better..

JimmyV · April 2013

dignin wrote:

I agree they acted fast and did what they thought was best. Doesn't make what they did right. We have every right to question this after the fact and learn what mistakes were made.

I don't disagree, but I do think there is a faction that was going to criticize whatever was done. They don't have much credibility in my eyes.

dimitrispearljam · April 2013

dignin wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

I'm really surprised that on a rock bands website that so many are ok with the authorities extending their powers ... especially when the facts indicate the civilians were just as helpful and many cases were more helpful.

i agree..the problem is when u need to secure fast a situation,must take calls that leave no risk..i think they did that this time..
i dont know anyone with common sense that likes military in the street of the city..

I agree they acted fast and did what they thought was best. Doesn't make what they did right. We have every right to question this after the fact and learn what mistakes were made.

i agree ofcourse you must question you have every right....but what you will choose the next time this will happen??
at you city?at your area??at your block??
to see open roads,no policeman at your street?or special forces block the road and ready to act to catch the fugitive?

hedonist · April 2013

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Jesus. Westboro's going after this?

Absolutely shameful.

Let the poor girl be buried and mourned and celebrated in peace.

dignin · April 2013

JimmyV wrote:

dignin wrote:

I agree they acted fast and did what they thought was best. Doesn't make what they did right. We have every right to question this after the fact and learn what mistakes were made.

I don't disagree, but I do think there is a faction that was going to criticize whatever was done. They don't have much credibility in my eyes.

Yes, I am borderline in that category. Past dealings with the police and having my rights trampled on have made me that way.

I watched and listened to that whole day going down and thought what the police were doing was reasonable and justified. But as stories came out later and upon further reflection I changed my mind. It worried me, and our acceptance of it worries me even more. There needs to be a push-back and criticism of this kind of use of force.

mikepegg44 · April 2013

hedonist wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Jesus. Westboro's going after this?

Absolutely shameful.

Let the poor girl be buried and mourned and celebrated in peace.

why would you expect anything less?

seriously, I hope there is a god, because when these morons go in front of him to be judged they will then realize what a waste their lives were and I hope that he lets me sit in and watch their spirit faces go all wide eyed when the trap door opens...

brianlux · April 2013

mikepegg44 wrote:

hedonist wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Jesus. Westboro's going after this?

Absolutely shameful.

Let the poor girl be buried and mourned and celebrated in peace.

why would you expect anything less?

seriously, I hope there is a god, because when these morons go in front of him to be judged they will then realize what a waste their lives were and I hope that he lets me sit in and watch their spirit faces go all wide eyed when the trap door opens...

Well said, mikepegg. The actions of these people is sickening and disgusting. How on earth do people become so twisted and vile and self-righteous? Utterly shameful.

81 · April 2013

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

wanna be a celebrated terrorist? bomb these fucks.

disclaimer, i don't condone violence, nor am i suggesting anyone really do this.

hedonist · April 2013

mikepegg44 wrote:

hedonist wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Jesus. Westboro's going after this?

Absolutely shameful.

Let the poor girl be buried and mourned and celebrated in peace.

why would you expect anything less?

seriously, I hope there is a god, because when these morons go in front of him to be judged they will then realize what a waste their lives were and I hope that he lets me sit in and watch their spirit faces go all wide eyed when the trap door opens...

It didn't even occur to me that this young woman - this whole thing - would be in their cross-hairs.

I hope that they, like some of the others who've escaped that madness, will eventually see how utterly fucked up their mindset and actions have been. I'd also not have a problem with retribution.

(I also hope to hell they don't pull this at the funerals for the other young lady and the little girl)

SPEEDY MCCREADY · April 2013

81 wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

wanna be a celebrated terrorist? bomb these fucks. disclaimer, i don't condone violence, nor am i suggesting anyone really do this.

Bomb the Teamsters too!

JimmyV · April 2013

http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/22/ ... story.html

Earlier, some 200 members of Teamsters Local 25 began gathering at St. Joseph’s Church before 8 a.m. today, promising to block protesters from the Westboro Baptist Church if they followed through on a threat to picket the funeral.

Sean O’Brien, president and principal officer of Teamster’s local, said the community reached out to the Teamsters yesterday “because they know how influential we are.”

“It’s the right thing to do,” O’Brien said of the decision to protect the funeral. “The family deserves a peaceful grieving process that’s free from any coward-led group.”

O’Brien said the Teamsters mobilized their members and other unions through Twitter and Facebook yesterday. He added that about 350 Teamsters are expected this morning, “and we can get 1,000 if we need them.”

The Kansas church is a fringe religious organization whose members stage protests at high-profile funeral services to draw attention to their views. No church members were visible as of late morning.

While the blocking of possible protests was organized by the Teamsters, it drew many people without union ties.

Derek Lofstrom, 33, of Winchester said he learned protesters would possibly be at the funeral on Sunday night through his Facebook feed, and immediately decided he would help block them. He climbed a tree in a yard across from the church to help hang a large American flag Monday.

“I felt it was kind of my civic duty to come out,” he said. “There’s no way in hell I wasn’t going to.”

Mary Mackey, 25, and Charlie Sanphy, 27, drove from Nahant to join the crowd in Medford, not because they’re in a union, but to object to the protesters. “They shouldn’t be protesting funerals,” Mackey said of the Westboro Baptist Church. “I’m here to stand up to them. I don’t like people who spew hate. I’m also here to support this family.”

Gary Lewis, 56, of Reading, stood at the corner of High Street and Boynton Road Monday morning, wearing his leather jacket with a US Marine Corps insignia on the back.

“I want this family to have some peace and mourn without putting up with the [protesters],” he said. “I hope try get the respect they deserve.”

dimitrispearljam · April 2013

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Why they do that?

JimmyV · April 2013

hedonist wrote:

It didn't even occur to me that this young woman - this whole thing - would be in their cross-hairs.

I hope that they, like some of the others who've escaped that madness, will eventually see how utterly fucked up their mindset and actions have been. I'd also not have a problem with retribution.

(I also hope to hell they don't pull this at the funerals for the other young lady and the little girl)

They released a statement that these attacks were the fault of gay marriage supporters.

They would be funny if they were not so disgusting.

badbrains · April 2013

dignin wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Don't play with words: inciting violence is a little different than crime and punishment.

It's been suggested that vengeance is the justice that people are seeking in this case. I think there's an enormous body of legal theory, philosophy and psychology supporting the idea that vengeance is smallest and perhaps least important part of "justice." Ask yourselves: when did you feel relief in this case? When you heard that he was captured? Or when you heard that he was bloodied in the process? Personally, I can say without a doubt (and I think most honest people will agree) that I felt far more relief knowing that the guy was caught than I did knowing that he had been injured or shot in the process. My secondary concern after the bombings happened (primary being the people killed or injured) was: what's next? Are there others? Will more die? It was vaguely how I felt after September 11.

Our justice system, as in many civil societies, is theoretically and largely based on restoration of order, not retribution. The media focuses on the criminals, sure, because it's interesting, it draws viewers etc (and there's a whole body of theory on why that is too). But realistically and practically speaking, criminal justice is focused on taking disorder and making it orderly again. Chaos after a bomb goes off in a crowd of innocent people...into a conviction and a state-sanctioned sentence. Our dispassionate processes ensure that no one violent criminal or act can send our world into chaos and dysfunction. For so many reasons that I do not need to elaborate on, I much prefer this scenario, as opposed to chaos after a bomb...into the chaos of mob justice.

The concern with people describing what they'd like to see done to this guy or why they're glad/satisfied/OK with whatever injuries he has is that many of us, myself included, don't just limit their opinions to these messageboards. You got out. You talk with your family. You talk with your friends. You tell your co-workers. You tell your kids. You cast votes. You sit on juries.

And sooner or later, the pernicious idea that vengeance IS justice sits in the minds of people who are able to deny due process. And when that happens, sooner or later, due process is denied in a case where the defendant truly could benefit from it (i.e. the wrongfully convicted).

What I've been arguing in this thread has nothing to do with whether I think this guy is guilty and deserves severe punishment (I do). It has everything to do with what I perceive as a concerning trend among people to allow emotion and hot-bloodedness to guide the things they say and do. Even in most cruel and awful cases, dispassionate reason must be our guide. Ask yourselves: is the benefit in capturing this guy that order and peace has been restored? Or are we happier because he's been punched, shot or injured?

I implore you: don't waste your breathe and energy and good nature wishing pain and suffering on a guy like this. He will be dealt with accordingly.

Take chaos and make it orderly.

Fantastic post.

I second it. Well put

SPEEDY MCCREADY · April 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Why they do that?

Go read about the Westboro Baptist Church.

A Socialist Act of Treason.

badbrains · April 2013

dimitrispearljam wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Why they do that?

Because they are some very disturbed people. This shits uncalled for and unreal. Let the family have there time to say good bye. Maybe people should start protesting these fucks and show up at there church. How far is Chadwick from these fuckers? I'm sure he can put a scare into them. :evil:

Hugh Freaking Dillon · April 2013

dignin wrote:

redrock wrote:

I'm also thinking that from a policing and search point of view, having all kinds of people in the streets, gawking, trying to get some footage or photos on their cell phones to be able to put up on youtube or sell to the papers (the 'I was there' thing), etc. for their 15 minutes of fame would hinder the efforts of those trying to find the guy. Not only would they need to be super vigilant to their surroundings for their main purpose, they would have to be looking after the safety of the people out in the streets when a potentially dangerous person is on the loose in the neighbourhood.

Another point, easier to find a 'fugitive' trying to run away when no one else is in the street, as opposed to this fugitive melting away in a crowd.

If people hadn't been evacuated or told to stay in, I'd hate to think what the whole 'pointing of fingers' would be if one or more citizens got hurt or killed by a potential grenade/bomb/gun.

They just didn't know what this guy had on him/with him.

Just a couple of thoughts....

good points

I made these exact same points pages ago,and they were all ignored by the "critics". because there's nothing to refute here.

dimitrispearljam · April 2013

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Teamsters blocking the Westboro Baptist Church at Krystle Campbell's funeral.

Why they do that?

Go read about the Westboro Baptist Church.

A Socialist Act of Treason.

The Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American independent Baptist church known for its extreme ideologies, especially those against gay people. The church is widely described as a hate group

i think i read enough..

Boston Marathon - explosion

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