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  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    Go Beavers wrote:
    pj1981 wrote:
    Go Beavers wrote:
    What exactly is "changing choices and needs"?
    Is that not explanatory?

    I forgot to add I really like what you said about the 1000 women perhaps that can
    be applied to those you stay are being righteous seeing that you can not know all their hearts
    or all the motives. All you could do is listen though as you might do with the 1000 women.

    "Changing choices and needs" is not explanatory at all. It's actually totally vague. What choices and what needs? What specific things are they doing that have evidence of effecting change?

    I'm not claiming to know their hearts, I'm basing my thoughts about their sincerity on their behaviors and statements. A group of pro-choice people at a rally are their to maintain the right to have an abortion and it's usually clearly stated. Groups of anti-abortion people talk about the issue from different angles and approaches, but the agenda of many is to chip away at abortion rights with different tactics. Not too many come out and have a protest asking directly for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade. I'm either assuming or reading between the lines, but that is the eventual goal for many of them.

    Was there a participant at the rally referenced in the OP that also is a sex educator teaching a valid curriculum? Maybe there's a you tube link of this person putting a condom on a banana in front of a group of 15 year-olds.
    In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.
  • Prince Of Dorkness
    Prince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    pj1981 wrote:
    In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.

    And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?

    For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
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  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,569
    pj1981 wrote:
    Go Beavers wrote:

    "Changing choices and needs" is not explanatory at all. It's actually totally vague. What choices and what needs? What specific things are they doing that have evidence of effecting change?

    I'm not claiming to know their hearts, I'm basing my thoughts about their sincerity on their behaviors and statements. A group of pro-choice people at a rally are their to maintain the right to have an abortion and it's usually clearly stated. Groups of anti-abortion people talk about the issue from different angles and approaches, but the agenda of many is to chip away at abortion rights with different tactics. Not too many come out and have a protest asking directly for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade. I'm either assuming or reading between the lines, but that is the eventual goal for many of them.

    Was there a participant at the rally referenced in the OP that also is a sex educator teaching a valid curriculum? Maybe there's a you tube link of this person putting a condom on a banana in front of a group of 15 year-olds.
    In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.

    You wrote this on page 3: "teaching women to not exercise this right to take a life,
    not to need to exercise the right".

    Is that what you mean by "change that would come"? It's still not really clear what this means or what anti-abortion groups/people are doing to teach women.
  • rbrum7
    rbrum7 Posts: 989
    600,000 people all in one place telling everyone else how to live their life and what choices they NEED to make Sounds intolerable. Such a righteous mindset...makes me sick.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    pj1981 wrote:
    In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.

    yeah thanks but no thanks.. i choose to keep sovereignty over my own body. women dont need anybodys righteous morality shoved down their throats when it comes to such a personal matter that no one but they has the right to exercise a will over.
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  • oceaninmyeyes
    oceaninmyeyes Posts: 4,646
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    pro lifers love fetuses until they are out of the womb.


    then fuck em'


    really ignorant statement. Not surprised.

    I am not a Catholic, but I have a great respect for several Catholic sisters. One of whom is Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun. In 2004, she said essentially what Smellyman said above, just maybe a little more eloquently: “But I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking. If all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, and why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of what pro-life is.”
    If you are pro-life, shouldn’t your concerns exist beyond the womb?
    http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... e-question
    And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
  • oceaninmyeyes
    oceaninmyeyes Posts: 4,646
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Let me ask you a question (I do agree with your sentiment by the way)... what kind of education is needed?

    Well, we could teach teenagers about birth control instead of "abstinence only" and maybe they would know how to avoid unwanted pregnancies. That would be a skill they could carry with them.

    We also might prevent sexually transmitted diseases with youth, as well.

    You think most unwanted pregnancies stem from people not knowing about condoms, etc?

    I think this is true for a small portion of the population, but not most. That is why when people talk about education being the solution, while I think it can help, I don't believe it will solve the majority of the problems. People always blame a lack of knowing when most of the time it's a lack of applying the knowledge you have.

    Or an inability to apply the knowledge you have. For example, cost may be an issue, especially for teens.

    On Oct. 5, 2012 Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis reported the findings of a study they performed and published in the journal, Obstetrics and Gynecology They studied over 9,250 women and provided them with free birth control. Abortion rates dropped to as low as 4.4 % per 1000 women in the study , compared to 13.4 %per 1000 women in St.Louis, and 19.6% per 1000 women nationally.

    The best news was that there were 6.3 births per 1,000 girls aged 15 to 19 in the study, compared with the national rate of 34.3 births per 1,000 teen girls.

    http://healthland.time.com/2012/10/05/s ... z2Jj5Owz90
    And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
  • dancepartner
    dancepartner Posts: 324
    oceaninmyeyes wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:
    pro lifers love fetuses until they are out of the womb.


    then fuck em'


    really ignorant statement. Not surprised.

    I am not a Catholic, but I have a great respect for several Catholic sisters. One of whom is Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun. In 2004, she said essentially what Smellyman said above, just maybe a little more eloquently: “But I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking. If all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, and why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of what pro-life is.”

    If you are pro-life, shouldn’t your concerns exist beyond the womb?
    http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... e-question

    Agreed. smellyman is maybe just rough around the edges?
    Ocean; i also like the study you posted about education.
    Abortion, death penalty, gun control. 3 topics in which Americans can typically get very passionate about. these are great examples of where we must then find the basic common ground in which to start from, to then think of new approaches to and end we all agree on: nobody wants a life not cherished.
    For instance, the many unwanted babies that land in dumpsters or the ones that end up on a hospital step only to take on a million plus weaning detox stint and then still, have no one wanting them. Their mothers, the ones who can't think beyond their next fix much less the care of a baby, is one part of the problem. for this %, how about providing a free tubal in exchange for a clean, full, daily needle until they either a) choose to detox or b) die?
  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    pj1981 wrote:
    In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.

    And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?

    For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
    Yes that is the big controversy when does life begin? your opinion on that? for you when does life begin?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,569
    pj1981 wrote:
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

    And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?

    For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
    Yes that is the big controversy when does life begin? your opinion on that? for you when does life begin?

    It's the big controversy because the people who want abortion to be illegal push that point, and if they get an answer, they then equate it with murder.
  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    Go Beavers wrote:
    pj1981 wrote:
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

    And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?

    For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
    Yes that is the big controversy when does life begin? your opinion on that? for you when does life begin?

    It's the big controversy because the people who want abortion to be illegal push that point, and if they get an answer, they then equate it with murder.
    kind of an important point
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,569
    pj1981 wrote:
    Go Beavers wrote:
    pj1981 wrote:

    It's the big controversy because the people who want abortion to be illegal push that point, and if they get an answer, they then equate it with murder.
    kind of an important point

    It is, especially when you want to make abortion illegal.
  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    Go Beavers wrote:
    It is, especially when you want to make abortion illegal.
    I agree. And even if your agenda is not to make abortion illegal.

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