I disagree with the sincerity of many of the anti-abortion people. If they wanted to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, then they would put their full energy into effective sex education programs and improving access to cheap and effective contraception. All I see is them putting up road blocks to this. Their views come across as self-righteous preaching which only has the effect of making themselves feel good. A lot of these people are the same ones, who two years after the mom has her kid, are shaming her for being on public assistance and lecturing her about needing to take responsibility for the choices she's made in her life.
There are many prochoice people who are anti-abortion as myself. There are many anti-abortion
people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused
and not necessarily in self righteous preaching.
Could you be viewing some for many?
Personal responsibility truly is the key though, stopping the need for abortion
and to begin to respect life.
Of course I don't know the numbers in the groups I'm referencing, but in your post you're supporting my point by how you've worded things: "people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused" and "personal responsibility is key, though". This is veiled language which implies abstinence only education and shaming women.
I know many women who wouldn't get an abortion, but at the same time they are pro-choice in the sense of wanting to maintain abortion as a choice for others. Is that what you're saying when you say you're pro-choice and anti-abortion?
Im sure there are MANY teenage girls who have unprotected sex because they know if they do get pregnant.....they can just go get an abortion! That thought and irresponsibilty becomes a lifestyle.
Dont want to walk to 7-11 for condoms cause its too far, in the cold....."ah well worst case scenario, if I get pregnant, I can get an abortion"
In what fucked up world do you live in where getting an abortion is easier than walking down to the 711?
Honestly... Do you buy your big bags of bullshit by the truckload or do you shovel them yourself?
I disagree with the sincerity of many of the anti-abortion people. If they wanted to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, then they would put their full energy into effective sex education programs and improving access to cheap and effective contraception. All I see is them putting up road blocks to this. Their views come across as self-righteous preaching which only has the effect of making themselves feel good. A lot of these people are the same ones, who two years after the mom has her kid, are shaming her for being on public assistance and lecturing her about needing to take responsibility for the choices she's made in her life.
There are many prochoice people who are anti-abortion as myself. There are many anti-abortion
people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused
and not necessarily in self righteous preaching.
Could you be viewing some for many?
Personal responsibility truly is the key though, stopping the need for abortion
and to begin to respect life.
Of course I don't know the numbers in the groups I'm referencing, but in your post you're supporting my point by how you've worded things: "people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused" and "personal responsibility is key, though". This is veiled language which implies abstinence only education and shaming women.
I know many women who wouldn't get an abortion, but at the same time they are pro-choice in the sense of wanting to maintain abortion as a choice for others. Is that what you're saying when you say you're pro-choice and anti-abortion?
Yes I believe we must keep the choice for women and hope to change the need to have abortions
in the years to come. And yes I support your points you make about some people's
abortion views, they do exist but it's important to realize many only want to
protect the unborn's right to live. The number of lives taken each year is staggering
and it is through personal responsibility that this number can be lessened.
You mention women you know who would not consider an abortion, what makes these women
different than those who choose abortion?
Of course I don't know the numbers in the groups I'm referencing, but in your post you're supporting my point by how you've worded things: "people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused" and "personal responsibility is key, though". This is veiled language which implies abstinence only education and shaming women.
I know many women who wouldn't get an abortion, but at the same time they are pro-choice in the sense of wanting to maintain abortion as a choice for others. Is that what you're saying when you say you're pro-choice and anti-abortion?
Yes I believe we must keep the choice for women and hope to change the need to have abortions
in the years to come. And yes I support your points you make about some people's
abortion views, they do exist but it's important to realize many only want to
protect the unborn's right to live. The number of lives taken each year is staggering
and it is through personal responsibility that this number can be lessened.
You mention women you know who would not consider an abortion, what makes these women
different than those who choose abortion?
I can see where you're going in your last sentence. It's an attempt to funnel it into the responsibility/morality direction, which I guess makes it easier to digest, but the fact is, if you have a 1000 women and survey them about the decision to not have an abortion vs. having one, you would have unique answers from all of them.
Again though, you change the need to have abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. You point out that many only want to protect the unborn's rights, which was my point earlier about anti-abortion activists. They're on a crusade of self-righteousness (or at least that's how it comes across), and nothing else.
Of course I don't know the numbers in the groups I'm referencing, but in your post you're supporting my point by how you've worded things: "people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused" and "personal responsibility is key, though". This is veiled language which implies abstinence only education and shaming women.
I know many women who wouldn't get an abortion, but at the same time they are pro-choice in the sense of wanting to maintain abortion as a choice for others. Is that what you're saying when you say you're pro-choice and anti-abortion?
Yes I believe we must keep the choice for women and hope to change the need to have abortions
in the years to come. And yes I support your points you make about some people's
abortion views, they do exist but it's important to realize many only want to
protect the unborn's right to live. The number of lives taken each year is staggering
and it is through personal responsibility that this number can be lessened.
You mention women you know who would not consider an abortion, what makes these women
different than those who choose abortion?
I can see where you're going in your last sentence. It's an attempt to funnel it into the responsibility/morality direction, which I guess makes it easier to digest, but the fact is, if you have a 1000 women and survey them about the decision to not have an abortion vs. having one, you would have unique answers from all of them.
Again though, you change the need to have abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. You point out that many only want to protect the unborn's rights, which was my point earlier about anti-abortion activists. They're on a crusade of self-righteousness (or at least that's how it comes across), and nothing else.
Well actually I wanted your opinion on what you thought made women choose an abortion or not.
Wasn't pointing a finger at the choices women make. Do you feel it is self righteous to save lives?
It sounds from your words you are lumping too many into the self righteous motive and
disregarding those, the many, protecting the unborn not through wanting abortion abolished but through changing choices and needs.
Im sure there are MANY teenage girls who have unprotected sex because they know if they do get pregnant.....they can just go get an abortion! That thought and irresponsibilty becomes a lifestyle.
Dont want to walk to 7-11 for condoms cause its too far, in the cold....."ah well worst case scenario, if I get pregnant, I can get an abortion"
In what fucked up world do you live in where getting an abortion is easier than walking down to the 711?
Honestly... Do you buy your big bags of bullshit by the truckload or do you shovel them yourself?
Hey Princy-Poo you mean to tell me that in the heat of the moment, people say "I didnt think we would go this far and I dont have any condoms, so lets take a break from this romantic moment and take a walk a few blocks to get them! YEA OK! LOL
Also, people are lazy and irresponsible! Many of them are teens and they dont think with their heads! Cmon man we all been there, Ill admit it! I was like that! You werent? I know human nature and we dont think with our heads! Its that simple!
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
you mean to tell me that in the heat of the moment, people say "I didnt think we would go this far and I dont have any condoms, so lets take a break from this romantic moment and take a walk a few blocks to get them! YEA OK! LOL
I'm absolutely baffled as to how your brain could think I was saying anything like that at all.
With proper education, maybe they would know to prepare for such an event.
Or hey... there's more than one way to fire a rocket... ya know?
There have been four glbt marches on Washington and most of the mainstream news ignored them...
Fox News gave wall to wall coverage on their silly tea party rallies and when two weeks later, there was an equal-size glbt march, they only mentioned it while talking about something else and didn't show a single picture.
The news can cover whatever it wants.
Quite frankly l'm sick of hearing about the anti-abortion crowd because they have nothing new to offer, we get it, you want freedom and liberty and the right to shove cameras up women's vaginas and take pictures of the microscopic fetus to force her to look at it.
But gun control is a very central and topical issue... They're going to talk about it.
Those middle class white people do that pro-life thing every year on the same day and have been doing so for years
no one cares anymore
except of course for all the middle class white peope who particiapte every year
And seriously... how many people here had their parents talk to them about Sex Education? How many of you parents out there have sat your kid down and openly discussed sex? How did that go? "Ahh... your mom and I got drunk one night at a kegger party and we fucked in the backseat of my Chevelle and... well, 9 motnths later... you popped out of her pussy... all covered in slime".
OMG!!! this happened to me... twice! tho not quite as eloquently.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Im sure there are MANY teenage girls who have unprotected sex because they know if they do get pregnant.....they can just go get an abortion! That thought and irresponsibilty becomes a lifestyle.
Dont want to walk to 7-11 for condoms cause its too far, in the cold....."ah well worst case scenario, if I get pregnant, I can get an abortion"
In what fucked up world do you live in where getting an abortion is easier than walking down to the 711?
Honestly... Do you buy your big bags of bullshit by the truckload or do you shovel them yourself?
Hey Princy-Poo you mean to tell me that in the heat of the moment, people say "I didnt think we would go this far and I dont have any condoms, so lets take a break from this romantic moment and take a walk a few blocks to get them! YEA OK! LOL
Also, people are lazy and irresponsible! Many of them are teens and they dont think with their heads! Cmon man we all been there, Ill admit it! I was like that! You werent? I know human nature and we dont think with our heads! Its that simple!
so those lazy and irresponsible people should be parents, and not only be responsible for the complete care and well-being of a tiny little life, but one that they didn't want to have in the first place? Going by what you've written, they can't even take care of their own well-being. That doesn't sound like much concern for the life of the unborn. The impact of abuse and neglect or even just a total lack of attachment will be life-long - and the unborn will pay the price for that. Preventing abortion doesn't suddenly make people want to be parents or transform them into people who will properly care for and love a child. Let's focus on preventing unintended and unwanted pregnancies in the first place and giving people the knowledge and the tools to do so.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Religious zealots marching and protesting a woman's choice to have an abortion is hardly a reason to consider insisting a nation move in that direction. If a zygote is deemed a fully functional human being and an abortion is tantamount to murder... then why not go a little further and protest the loss of sperm cells into tissue paper from masturbating young men? Those wiggly little things have some life in them too.
I see the need for abortion just as I see abortions abused. Just as I can admit that, sadly, some women may have used an abortion as a method of birth control... don't tell me the incest victim or the foolish, young, drunk teen does not have the right to terminate her unwanted pregnancy.
I teach sex ed. Our comprehensive curriculum promotes abstinence, but provides knowledge necessary for teens to handle the choices they might make if opting to act out on their intense urges. There is no greater level of attention paid to the level of attention kids give when being instructed on the proper use of a condom: from opening the package to safely removing it from the penis after sex and disposing of it. Kids giggle and laugh when they handle them and apply them to bananas, but they are interested and they learn.
I'm surprised to hear that some sex ed. classes might not do anything other than attempt to brainwash or shame kids into choosing abstinence. This methodology is similar to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand to hide- it's ignoring the reality of the situation and maybe even damaging to adult/student relations (when the kids determine that adults are completely out of touch with the needs of the youth sector).
Strange - I haven't seen some of the usual suspects in this thread. Maybe they changed their screen names.
I could go on and on all day about this (I have ), but I think I'm going to leave you all to your baby killing or your war against women...depending on what you believe that is. Happy friday everyone.
I can see where you're going in your last sentence. It's an attempt to funnel it into the responsibility/morality direction, which I guess makes it easier to digest, but the fact is, if you have a 1000 women and survey them about the decision to not have an abortion vs. having one, you would have unique answers from all of them.
Again though, you change the need to have abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. You point out that many only want to protect the unborn's rights, which was my point earlier about anti-abortion activists. They're on a crusade of self-righteousness (or at least that's how it comes across), and nothing else.
Well actually I wanted your opinion on what you thought made women choose an abortion or not.
Wasn't pointing a finger at the choices women make. Do you feel it is self righteous to save lives?
It sounds from your words you are lumping too many into the self righteous motive and
disregarding those, the many, protecting the unborn not through wanting abortion abolished but through changing choices and needs.
I can see where you're going in your last sentence. It's an attempt to funnel it into the responsibility/morality direction, which I guess makes it easier to digest, but the fact is, if you have a 1000 women and survey them about the decision to not have an abortion vs. having one, you would have unique answers from all of them.
Again though, you change the need to have abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. You point out that many only want to protect the unborn's rights, which was my point earlier about anti-abortion activists. They're on a crusade of self-righteousness (or at least that's how it comes across), and nothing else.
Well actually I wanted your opinion on what you thought made women choose an abortion or not.
Wasn't pointing a finger at the choices women make. Do you feel it is self righteous to save lives?
It sounds from your words you are lumping too many into the self righteous motive and
disregarding those, the many, protecting the unborn not through wanting abortion abolished but through changing choices and needs.
What exactly is "changing choices and needs"?
Is that not explanatory?
I forgot to add I really like what you said about the 1000 women perhaps that can
be applied to those you stay are being righteous seeing that you can not know all their hearts
or all the motives. All you could do is listen though as you might do with the 1000 women.
Strange - I haven't seen some of the usual suspects in this thread. Maybe they changed their screen names.
I could go on and on all day about this (I have ), but I think I'm going to leave you all to your baby killing or your war against women...depending on what you believe that is. Happy friday everyone.
Well actually I wanted your opinion on what you thought made women choose an abortion or not.
Wasn't pointing a finger at the choices women make. Do you feel it is self righteous to save lives?
It sounds from your words you are lumping too many into the self righteous motive and
disregarding those, the many, protecting the unborn not through wanting abortion abolished but through changing choices and needs.
What exactly is "changing choices and needs"?
Is that not explanatory?
I forgot to add I really like what you said about the 1000 women perhaps that can
be applied to those you stay are being righteous seeing that you can not know all their hearts
or all the motives. All you could do is listen though as you might do with the 1000 women.
"Changing choices and needs" is not explanatory at all. It's actually totally vague. What choices and what needs? What specific things are they doing that have evidence of effecting change?
I'm not claiming to know their hearts, I'm basing my thoughts about their sincerity on their behaviors and statements. A group of pro-choice people at a rally are their to maintain the right to have an abortion and it's usually clearly stated. Groups of anti-abortion people talk about the issue from different angles and approaches, but the agenda of many is to chip away at abortion rights with different tactics. Not too many come out and have a protest asking directly for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade. I'm either assuming or reading between the lines, but that is the eventual goal for many of them.
Was there a participant at the rally referenced in the OP that also is a sex educator teaching a valid curriculum? Maybe there's a you tube link of this person putting a condom on a banana in front of a group of 15 year-olds.
I forgot to add I really like what you said about the 1000 women perhaps that can
be applied to those you stay are being righteous seeing that you can not know all their hearts
or all the motives. All you could do is listen though as you might do with the 1000 women.
"Changing choices and needs" is not explanatory at all. It's actually totally vague. What choices and what needs? What specific things are they doing that have evidence of effecting change?
I'm not claiming to know their hearts, I'm basing my thoughts about their sincerity on their behaviors and statements. A group of pro-choice people at a rally are their to maintain the right to have an abortion and it's usually clearly stated. Groups of anti-abortion people talk about the issue from different angles and approaches, but the agenda of many is to chip away at abortion rights with different tactics. Not too many come out and have a protest asking directly for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade. I'm either assuming or reading between the lines, but that is the eventual goal for many of them.
Was there a participant at the rally referenced in the OP that also is a sex educator teaching a valid curriculum? Maybe there's a you tube link of this person putting a condom on a banana in front of a group of 15 year-olds.
In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.
In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.
And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?
For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
"Changing choices and needs" is not explanatory at all. It's actually totally vague. What choices and what needs? What specific things are they doing that have evidence of effecting change?
I'm not claiming to know their hearts, I'm basing my thoughts about their sincerity on their behaviors and statements. A group of pro-choice people at a rally are their to maintain the right to have an abortion and it's usually clearly stated. Groups of anti-abortion people talk about the issue from different angles and approaches, but the agenda of many is to chip away at abortion rights with different tactics. Not too many come out and have a protest asking directly for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade. I'm either assuming or reading between the lines, but that is the eventual goal for many of them.
Was there a participant at the rally referenced in the OP that also is a sex educator teaching a valid curriculum? Maybe there's a you tube link of this person putting a condom on a banana in front of a group of 15 year-olds.
In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.
You wrote this on page 3: "teaching women to not exercise this right to take a life,
not to need to exercise the right".
Is that what you mean by "change that would come"? It's still not really clear what this means or what anti-abortion groups/people are doing to teach women.
600,000 people all in one place telling everyone else how to live their life and what choices they NEED to make Sounds intolerable. Such a righteous mindset...makes me sick.
Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
(EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
Manchester, TN - 6/11/16 Chicago, IL - 8/18/18 Chicago, IL - 8/20/18 (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19 Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20 (Canceled) Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20 (Canceled) Indianapolis, IN - 9/10/23 (Canceled) Indianapolis, IN - 8/26/24
In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.
yeah thanks but no thanks.. i choose to keep sovereignty over my own body. women dont need anybodys righteous morality shoved down their throats when it comes to such a personal matter that no one but they has the right to exercise a will over.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
pro lifers love fetuses until they are out of the womb.
then fuck em'
really ignorant statement. Not surprised.
I am not a Catholic, but I have a great respect for several Catholic sisters. One of whom is Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun. In 2004, she said essentially what Smellyman said above, just maybe a little more eloquently: “But I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking. If all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, and why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of what pro-life is.”
If you are pro-life, shouldn’t your concerns exist beyond the womb? http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... e-question
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
Let me ask you a question (I do agree with your sentiment by the way)... what kind of education is needed?
Well, we could teach teenagers about birth control instead of "abstinence only" and maybe they would know how to avoid unwanted pregnancies. That would be a skill they could carry with them.
We also might prevent sexually transmitted diseases with youth, as well.
You think most unwanted pregnancies stem from people not knowing about condoms, etc?
I think this is true for a small portion of the population, but not most. That is why when people talk about education being the solution, while I think it can help, I don't believe it will solve the majority of the problems. People always blame a lack of knowing when most of the time it's a lack of applying the knowledge you have.
Or an inability to apply the knowledge you have. For example, cost may be an issue, especially for teens.
On Oct. 5, 2012 Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis reported the findings of a study they performed and published in the journal, Obstetrics and Gynecology They studied over 9,250 women and provided them with free birth control. Abortion rates dropped to as low as 4.4 % per 1000 women in the study , compared to 13.4 %per 1000 women in St.Louis, and 19.6% per 1000 women nationally.
The best news was that there were 6.3 births per 1,000 girls aged 15 to 19 in the study, compared with the national rate of 34.3 births per 1,000 teen girls.
pro lifers love fetuses until they are out of the womb.
then fuck em'
really ignorant statement. Not surprised.
I am not a Catholic, but I have a great respect for several Catholic sisters. One of whom is Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun. In 2004, she said essentially what Smellyman said above, just maybe a little more eloquently: “But I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking. If all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, and why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of what pro-life is.”
Agreed. smellyman is maybe just rough around the edges?
Ocean; i also like the study you posted about education.
Abortion, death penalty, gun control. 3 topics in which Americans can typically get very passionate about. these are great examples of where we must then find the basic common ground in which to start from, to then think of new approaches to and end we all agree on: nobody wants a life not cherished.
For instance, the many unwanted babies that land in dumpsters or the ones that end up on a hospital step only to take on a million plus weaning detox stint and then still, have no one wanting them. Their mothers, the ones who can't think beyond their next fix much less the care of a baby, is one part of the problem. for this %, how about providing a free tubal in exchange for a clean, full, daily needle until they either a) choose to detox or b) die?
In a previous post I mentioned change that would come to make different choices and change that would come to eliminate the need for abortions. I would think this would be everyone's goal because the loss of life right now is disgusting. I am hopeful that in the future abortions will continue to decline as we are seeing in recent years.
And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?
For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
Yes that is the big controversy when does life begin? your opinion on that? for you when does life begin?
And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?
For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
Yes that is the big controversy when does life begin? your opinion on that? for you when does life begin?
It's the big controversy because the people who want abortion to be illegal push that point, and if they get an answer, they then equate it with murder.
Comments
Of course I don't know the numbers in the groups I'm referencing, but in your post you're supporting my point by how you've worded things: "people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused" and "personal responsibility is key, though". This is veiled language which implies abstinence only education and shaming women.
I know many women who wouldn't get an abortion, but at the same time they are pro-choice in the sense of wanting to maintain abortion as a choice for others. Is that what you're saying when you say you're pro-choice and anti-abortion?
In what fucked up world do you live in where getting an abortion is easier than walking down to the 711?
Honestly... Do you buy your big bags of bullshit by the truckload or do you shovel them yourself?
Human Nature shows us that?
:fp:
How does human nature show us this? Because I walk a few blocks all the time. I walked a block and a half to get a coffee this morning.
Skip the walk. Call Durex.
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/h ... -1.1251317
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
in the years to come. And yes I support your points you make about some people's
abortion views, they do exist but it's important to realize many only want to
protect the unborn's right to live. The number of lives taken each year is staggering
and it is through personal responsibility that this number can be lessened.
You mention women you know who would not consider an abortion, what makes these women
different than those who choose abortion?
I can see where you're going in your last sentence. It's an attempt to funnel it into the responsibility/morality direction, which I guess makes it easier to digest, but the fact is, if you have a 1000 women and survey them about the decision to not have an abortion vs. having one, you would have unique answers from all of them.
Again though, you change the need to have abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. You point out that many only want to protect the unborn's rights, which was my point earlier about anti-abortion activists. They're on a crusade of self-righteousness (or at least that's how it comes across), and nothing else.
Wasn't pointing a finger at the choices women make. Do you feel it is self righteous to save lives?
It sounds from your words you are lumping too many into the self righteous motive and
disregarding those, the many, protecting the unborn not through wanting abortion abolished but through changing choices and needs.
Hey Princy-Poo you mean to tell me that in the heat of the moment, people say "I didnt think we would go this far and I dont have any condoms, so lets take a break from this romantic moment and take a walk a few blocks to get them! YEA OK! LOL
Also, people are lazy and irresponsible! Many of them are teens and they dont think with their heads! Cmon man we all been there, Ill admit it! I was like that! You werent? I know human nature and we dont think with our heads! Its that simple!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
You have not earned the right to call me that. So don't.
I'm absolutely baffled as to how your brain could think I was saying anything like that at all.
With proper education, maybe they would know to prepare for such an event.
Or hey... there's more than one way to fire a rocket... ya know?
No argument from me on that. But what's your point?
Teenagers are lazy, therefore outlaw abortion?
Again... what does "teenagers get caught up in the moment, so let's make them have those unwanted babies?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
OMG!!! this happened to me... twice! tho not quite as eloquently.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I see the need for abortion just as I see abortions abused. Just as I can admit that, sadly, some women may have used an abortion as a method of birth control... don't tell me the incest victim or the foolish, young, drunk teen does not have the right to terminate her unwanted pregnancy.
I teach sex ed. Our comprehensive curriculum promotes abstinence, but provides knowledge necessary for teens to handle the choices they might make if opting to act out on their intense urges. There is no greater level of attention paid to the level of attention kids give when being instructed on the proper use of a condom: from opening the package to safely removing it from the penis after sex and disposing of it. Kids giggle and laugh when they handle them and apply them to bananas, but they are interested and they learn.
I'm surprised to hear that some sex ed. classes might not do anything other than attempt to brainwash or shame kids into choosing abstinence. This methodology is similar to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand to hide- it's ignoring the reality of the situation and maybe even damaging to adult/student relations (when the kids determine that adults are completely out of touch with the needs of the youth sector).
I could go on and on all day about this (I have
What exactly is "changing choices and needs"?
I forgot to add I really like what you said about the 1000 women perhaps that can
be applied to those you stay are being righteous seeing that you can not know all their hearts
or all the motives. All you could do is listen though as you might do with the 1000 women.
"Changing choices and needs" is not explanatory at all. It's actually totally vague. What choices and what needs? What specific things are they doing that have evidence of effecting change?
I'm not claiming to know their hearts, I'm basing my thoughts about their sincerity on their behaviors and statements. A group of pro-choice people at a rally are their to maintain the right to have an abortion and it's usually clearly stated. Groups of anti-abortion people talk about the issue from different angles and approaches, but the agenda of many is to chip away at abortion rights with different tactics. Not too many come out and have a protest asking directly for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade. I'm either assuming or reading between the lines, but that is the eventual goal for many of them.
Was there a participant at the rally referenced in the OP that also is a sex educator teaching a valid curriculum? Maybe there's a you tube link of this person putting a condom on a banana in front of a group of 15 year-olds.
And what "different choices" and "changes" are you saying are coming?
For the record... I don't think an abortion is any different - from a "moral" standpoint - than getting a mole removed or squeezing a pimple. It's technically living tissue but it's not a life. Not yet.
You wrote this on page 3: "teaching women to not exercise this right to take a life,
not to need to exercise the right".
Is that what you mean by "change that would come"? It's still not really clear what this means or what anti-abortion groups/people are doing to teach women.
Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
(EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
(EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20 (Canceled)
Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20 (Canceled)
Indianapolis, IN - 9/10/23 (Canceled)
Indianapolis, IN - 8/26/24
yeah thanks but no thanks.. i choose to keep sovereignty over my own body. women dont need anybodys righteous morality shoved down their throats when it comes to such a personal matter that no one but they has the right to exercise a will over.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I am not a Catholic, but I have a great respect for several Catholic sisters. One of whom is Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun. In 2004, she said essentially what Smellyman said above, just maybe a little more eloquently: “But I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking. If all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, and why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of what pro-life is.”
If you are pro-life, shouldn’t your concerns exist beyond the womb?
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... e-question
Or an inability to apply the knowledge you have. For example, cost may be an issue, especially for teens.
On Oct. 5, 2012 Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis reported the findings of a study they performed and published in the journal, Obstetrics and Gynecology They studied over 9,250 women and provided them with free birth control. Abortion rates dropped to as low as 4.4 % per 1000 women in the study , compared to 13.4 %per 1000 women in St.Louis, and 19.6% per 1000 women nationally.
The best news was that there were 6.3 births per 1,000 girls aged 15 to 19 in the study, compared with the national rate of 34.3 births per 1,000 teen girls.
http://healthland.time.com/2012/10/05/s ... z2Jj5Owz90
Agreed. smellyman is maybe just rough around the edges?
Ocean; i also like the study you posted about education.
Abortion, death penalty, gun control. 3 topics in which Americans can typically get very passionate about. these are great examples of where we must then find the basic common ground in which to start from, to then think of new approaches to and end we all agree on: nobody wants a life not cherished.
For instance, the many unwanted babies that land in dumpsters or the ones that end up on a hospital step only to take on a million plus weaning detox stint and then still, have no one wanting them. Their mothers, the ones who can't think beyond their next fix much less the care of a baby, is one part of the problem. for this %, how about providing a free tubal in exchange for a clean, full, daily needle until they either a) choose to detox or b) die?
It's the big controversy because the people who want abortion to be illegal push that point, and if they get an answer, they then equate it with murder.