For the world to know!!!

pj1981 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

I disagree with the sincerity of many of the anti-abortion people. If they wanted to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, then they would put their full energy into effective sex education programs and improving access to cheap and effective contraception. All I see is them putting up road blocks to this. Their views come across as self-righteous preaching which only has the effect of making themselves feel good. A lot of these people are the same ones, who two years after the mom has her kid, are shaming her for being on public assistance and lecturing her about needing to take responsibility for the choices she's made in her life.

There are many prochoice people who are anti-abortion as myself. There are many anti-abortion
people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused
and not necessarily in self righteous preaching.
Could you be viewing some for many?
Personal responsibility truly is the key though, stopping the need for abortion
and to begin to respect life.

Of course I don't know the numbers in the groups I'm referencing, but in your post you're supporting my point by how you've worded things: "people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused" and "personal responsibility is key, though". This is veiled language which implies abstinence only education and shaming women.

I know many women who wouldn't get an abortion, but at the same time they are pro-choice in the sense of wanting to maintain abortion as a choice for others. Is that what you're saying when you say you're pro-choice and anti-abortion?

fear4freedom wrote:

Come on human nature shows us that we are too lazy to walk a few blocks for condoms!

Human Nature shows us that?

:fp:

How does human nature show us this? Because I walk a few blocks all the time. I walked a block and a half to get a coffee this morning.

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

Come on human nature shows us that we are too lazy to walk a few blocks for condoms!

Human Nature shows us that?

:fp:

How does human nature show us this? Because I walk a few blocks all the time. I walked a block and a half to get a coffee this morning.

Seriously...I'd walk a few miles for a good cup of coffee

pj1981 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

Of course I don't know the numbers in the groups I'm referencing, but in your post you're supporting my point by how you've worded things: "people who do want programs to change how abortion is used and abused" and "personal responsibility is key, though". This is veiled language which implies abstinence only education and shaming women.

I know many women who wouldn't get an abortion, but at the same time they are pro-choice in the sense of wanting to maintain abortion as a choice for others. Is that what you're saying when you say you're pro-choice and anti-abortion?

Yes I believe we must keep the choice for women and hope to change the need to have abortions
in the years to come. And yes I support your points you make about some people's
abortion views, they do exist but it's important to realize many only want to
protect the unborn's right to live. The number of lives taken each year is staggering
and it is through personal responsibility that this number can be lessened.
You mention women you know who would not consider an abortion, what makes these women
different than those who choose abortion?

I can see where you're going in your last sentence. It's an attempt to funnel it into the responsibility/morality direction, which I guess makes it easier to digest, but the fact is, if you have a 1000 women and survey them about the decision to not have an abortion vs. having one, you would have unique answers from all of them.

Again though, you change the need to have abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. You point out that many only want to protect the unborn's rights, which was my point earlier about anti-abortion activists. They're on a crusade of self-righteousness (or at least that's how it comes across), and nothing else.

Bentleyspop wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

There have been four glbt marches on Washington and most of the mainstream news ignored them...

Fox News gave wall to wall coverage on their silly tea party rallies and when two weeks later, there was an equal-size glbt march, they only mentioned it while talking about something else and didn't show a single picture.

The news can cover whatever it wants.

Quite frankly l'm sick of hearing about the anti-abortion crowd because they have nothing new to offer, we get it, you want freedom and liberty and the right to shove cameras up women's vaginas and take pictures of the microscopic fetus to force her to look at it.

But gun control is a very central and topical issue... They're going to talk about it.

Those middle class white people do that pro-life thing every year on the same day and have been doing so for years
no one cares anymore
except of course for all the middle class white peope who particiapte every year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

fear4freedom wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

Im sure there are MANY teenage girls who have unprotected sex because they know if they do get pregnant.....they can just go get an abortion! That thought and irresponsibilty becomes a lifestyle.
Dont want to walk to 7-11 for condoms cause its too far, in the cold....."ah well worst case scenario, if I get pregnant, I can get an abortion"

In what fucked up world do you live in where getting an abortion is easier than walking down to the 711?

Honestly... Do you buy your big bags of bullshit by the truckload or do you shovel them yourself?

Hey Princy-Poo you mean to tell me that in the heat of the moment, people say "I didnt think we would go this far and I dont have any condoms, so lets take a break from this romantic moment and take a walk a few blocks to get them! YEA OK! LOL

Also, people are lazy and irresponsible! Many of them are teens and they dont think with their heads! Cmon man we all been there, Ill admit it! I was like that! You werent? I know human nature and we dont think with our heads! Its that simple!

so those lazy and irresponsible people should be parents, and not only be responsible for the complete care and well-being of a tiny little life, but one that they didn't want to have in the first place? Going by what you've written, they can't even take care of their own well-being. That doesn't sound like much concern for the life of the unborn. The impact of abuse and neglect or even just a total lack of attachment will be life-long - and the unborn will pay the price for that. Preventing abortion doesn't suddenly make people want to be parents or transform them into people who will properly care for and love a child. Let's focus on preventing unintended and unwanted pregnancies in the first place and giving people the knowledge and the tools to do so.

Religious zealots marching and protesting a woman's choice to have an abortion is hardly a reason to consider insisting a nation move in that direction. If a zygote is deemed a fully functional human being and an abortion is tantamount to murder... then why not go a little further and protest the loss of sperm cells into tissue paper from masturbating young men? Those wiggly little things have some life in them too.

I see the need for abortion just as I see abortions abused. Just as I can admit that, sadly, some women may have used an abortion as a method of birth control... don't tell me the incest victim or the foolish, young, drunk teen does not have the right to terminate her unwanted pregnancy.

I teach sex ed. Our comprehensive curriculum promotes abstinence, but provides knowledge necessary for teens to handle the choices they might make if opting to act out on their intense urges. There is no greater level of attention paid to the level of attention kids give when being instructed on the proper use of a condom: from opening the package to safely removing it from the penis after sex and disposing of it. Kids giggle and laugh when they handle them and apply them to bananas, but they are interested and they learn.

I'm surprised to hear that some sex ed. classes might not do anything other than attempt to brainwash or shame kids into choosing abstinence. This methodology is similar to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand to hide- it's ignoring the reality of the situation and maybe even damaging to adult/student relations (when the kids determine that adults are completely out of touch with the needs of the youth sector).

pj1981 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

I can see where you're going in your last sentence. It's an attempt to funnel it into the responsibility/morality direction, which I guess makes it easier to digest, but the fact is, if you have a 1000 women and survey them about the decision to not have an abortion vs. having one, you would have unique answers from all of them.

Again though, you change the need to have abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. You point out that many only want to protect the unborn's rights, which was my point earlier about anti-abortion activists. They're on a crusade of self-righteousness (or at least that's how it comes across), and nothing else.

Well actually I wanted your opinion on what you thought made women choose an abortion or not.
Wasn't pointing a finger at the choices women make. Do you feel it is self righteous to save lives?
It sounds from your words you are lumping too many into the self righteous motive and
disregarding those, the many, protecting the unborn not through wanting abortion abolished but through changing choices and needs.

What exactly is "changing choices and needs"?