Catholic Church up to the same old sh*t

PJ_Soul · January 2013

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20957406

Catholic Church in Germany drops sex abuse inquiry

The Roman Catholic Church in Germany has terminated an independent inquiry it commissioned into sexual abuse by clergy, citing a breakdown in trust.

It said that bishops' trust in Prof Christian Pfeiffer, head of the Lower Saxony Criminological Research Institute, had been "destroyed".

Prof Pfeiffer accused the Church of obstructing his team's work by seeking to control the investigation.

The Church said a new inquiry would be commissioned with a different partner.

Bishops approached the institute in 2011 after a wave of revelations about sexual abuse broke and tens of thousands of Catholics deserted the Church.

Hundreds of people had come forward to say they were abused as minors between the 1950s and 1980s, amid suspicion the crimes were concealed.

Pope Benedict XVI, the German-born head of the Catholic Church, met victims when he visited Germany in 2011, and abuse survivors have been offered financial compensation.

'Censorship'

Prof Pfeiffer went public about his concerns, telling German media that Church officials had hampered his team's research efforts by continually intervening.

Speaking to the German national broadcaster ZDF, he accused the Church of seeking to censor the research and trying to dictate the make-up of his team.

"We were meant to submit everything for approval," the professor said.

His team consisted of retired prosecutors and judges and was allowed access to personnel records on Church employees going back more than a decade, the German broadcaster Deutsche Welle reports.

The German Bishops' Conference announced that it had ended its co-operation with Prof Pfeiffer's institute.

"The relationship of mutual trust between the bishops and the head of the institute has been destroyed," the Bishop of Trier, Stephan Ackermann, said.

"Trust is vital for such an extensive project dealing with such a sensitive issue."

About 34% of Germans are officially Roman Catholic, according to recent figures.

Meanwhile, I can't watch TV for more than 15 minutes without seeing one of these new "Come Home to the Catholic Church" ads that are begging those people who left the Church because of all the corruption and covering up of sexual abuse to come "home" to the Church because it's a whole new and wonderful and fulfilling era. :evil: Fuck you, Catholic Church. What a load of corrupt bullshit. Sorry, but I don't understand how people can keep following this Church in good conscience. I understand faith and everything, but how can people continue to follow the Vatican or listen to what they have to say or decree anymore?!?

JonnyPistachio · January 2013

They're going to have to resort to begging people to join after the reputation in the last few years.

PJ_Soul · January 2013

JonnyPistachio wrote:

They're going to have to resort to begging people to join after the reputation in the last few years.

Yeah... right now they're only begging the people who left to come back (now why would anyone do that?? Just because of their manipulative ads?). You're right, they're going to have to start begging the truly ignorant soon - those who just don't know anything about how corrupted they are. So people who are isolated from any kind of media?? Or just plain stupid people.

81 · January 2013

if i've said it once, i've said it a million times

it's a cess pool....shut it down.

hedonist · January 2013

81 wrote:

if i've said it once, i've said it a million times

it's a cess pool....shut it down.

Some of it is.

But why not address the issues within, and try to have them corrected, rather than the shut-down view? The problem will still be there, but swept moreso under the rug.

I don't want more of these fuckers around, unfettered.

As a sidenote...what about the Boy Scouts? And teachers sexually abusing their students? (this is in no way meant to offend our resident teachers here - you're stand-up people to me; but there've been an alarming number of instances here lately).

PJ_Soul · January 2013

hedonist wrote:

81 wrote:

if i've said it once, i've said it a million times

it's a cess pool....shut it down.

Some of it is.

But why not address the issues within, and try to have them corrected, rather than the shut-down view? The problem will still be there, but swept moreso under the rug.

I don't want more of these fuckers around, unfettered.

As a sidenote...what about the Boy Scouts? And teachers sexually abusing their students? (this is in no way meant to offend our resident teachers here - you're stand-up people to me; but there've been an alarming number of instances here lately).

I think the issues are WAY too deep and ingrained to be able to correct them. I think a shut-down would be the only solution.
I don't know about the numbers as far as teachers go, but that is a whole different issue, because there is no cover up whatsoever when it comes to teachers abusing students. As for the Boy Scouts... the entire administration should be fired. Luckily, they aren't a religion, so the issues within that organization could easily be fixed by getting rid of the old guard and revamping the Scouts. I also think that something should be done about troop leader selection. Perhaps only allow parents of active scouts to perform that duty or something. That would at least cut down on the creepy pedophiles who lead troops and don't even have any kids of their own.

hedonist · January 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Some of it is.

But why not address the issues within, and try to have them corrected, rather than the shut-down view? The problem will still be there, but swept moreso under the rug.

I don't want more of these fuckers around, unfettered.

As a sidenote...what about the Boy Scouts? And teachers sexually abusing their students? (this is in no way meant to offend our resident teachers here - you're stand-up people to me; but there've been an alarming number of instances here lately).

I think the issues are WAY too deep and ingrained to be able to correct them. I think a shut-down would be the only solution.
I don't know about the numbers as far as teachers go, but that is a whole different issue, because there is no cover up whatsoever when it comes to teachers abusing students. As for the Boy Scouts... the entire administration should be fired. Luckily, they aren't a religion, so the issues within that organization could easily be fixed by getting rid of the old guard and revamping the Scouts. I also think that something should be done about troop leader selection. Perhaps only allow parents of active scouts to perform that duty or something. That would at least cut down on the creepy pedophiles who lead troops and don't even have any kids of their own.

But then what does the shut-down do? What would it solve?

(and yes, teachers - like the peds in the CC - have been passed around...way too much)

Newch91 · January 2013

And people who I used to go to church with wonder why I haven't gone in years. It's because of this and me not agreeing with the Vatican that I don't go anymore. It's this same old shit that the Catholic Church does that makes me embarrassed to be a Catholic. Giving us a bad name.

PJ_Soul · January 2013

hedonist wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Some of it is.

But why not address the issues within, and try to have them corrected, rather than the shut-down view? The problem will still be there, but swept moreso under the rug.

I don't want more of these fuckers around, unfettered.

As a sidenote...what about the Boy Scouts? And teachers sexually abusing their students? (this is in no way meant to offend our resident teachers here - you're stand-up people to me; but there've been an alarming number of instances here lately).

I think the issues are WAY too deep and ingrained to be able to correct them. I think a shut-down would be the only solution.
I don't know about the numbers as far as teachers go, but that is a whole different issue, because there is no cover up whatsoever when it comes to teachers abusing students. As for the Boy Scouts... the entire administration should be fired. Luckily, they aren't a religion, so the issues within that organization could easily be fixed by getting rid of the old guard and revamping the Scouts. I also think that something should be done about troop leader selection. Perhaps only allow parents of active scouts to perform that duty or something. That would at least cut down on the creepy pedophiles who lead troops and don't even have any kids of their own.

But then what does the shut-down do? What would it solve?

(and yes, teachers - like the peds in the CC - have been passed around...way too much)

Really? Where I come from any teacher even accused of sexual abuse is practically crucified, and if they are proven to have done it they go to trial. Every time, no matter what. In the 70s and maybe even the 80s perhaps they got moved along, but not any more.

What would the shut down of the Catholic Church solve? It would cure the Earth of the the Catholic Church, for one.

fear4freedom · January 2013

Humans will fail....and when they put themselves into a religion such as Catholicism...they set themselves up for failure. Religion is a big problem....but its man-made. Its not about a list of rules to follow, or attend a church on Sundays. They set rules for themselves that they could not live up to, and their flesh driven temptations led them to little boys, instead of women. They sought out the weak to prey on! This is why I never went to church, nor wanted to go. Then, I found a non-Denominational Christian church and when I did, it felt different. Its different because its not about religion or a church.....its about a relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Catholics dont have that relationship, therefore the child molesting priests didnt feel convicted from it. Once I realized the Holy Trinity is me inside of a triangle, God the father at the top, Jesus to the bottom left and the Holy Spirit to the bottom right, I began to realize that its all about me and my relationship with them 3. Everything else goes away....including all the man-made rules. I realized its just about that and the Bible and nothing else. Pray the prayer of salvation and become saved. Thats it....I dont have to do anything else. So I found simplicity and true meaningful relationships in non-Denominational Christianity. Noone else can take that away or redefine it! SIMPLE!

PJ_Soul · January 2013

fear4freedom wrote:

Humans will fail....and when they put themselves into a religion such as Catholicism...they set themselves up for failure. Religion is a big problem....but its man-made. Its not about a list of rules to follow, or attend a church on Sundays. They set rules for themselves that they could not live up to, and their flesh driven temptations led them to little boys, instead of women. They sought out the weak to prey on! This is why I never went to church, nor wanted to go. Then, I found a non-Denominational Christian church and when I did, it felt different. Its different because its not about religion or a church.....its about a relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Catholics dont have that relationship, therefore the child molesting priests didnt feel convicted from it. Once I realized the Holy Trinity is me inside of a triangle, God the father at the top, Jesus to the bottom left and the Holy Spirit to the bottom right, I began to realize that its all about me and my relationship with them 3. Everything else goes away....including all the man-made rules. I realized its just about that and the Bible and nothing else. Pray the prayer of salvation and become saved. Thats it....I dont have to do anything else. So I found simplicity and true meaningful relationships in non-Denominational Christianity. Noone else can take that away or redefine it! SIMPLE!

That's very nice that you feel comfortable with your choice of religion.
But I don't think I agree with your reasoning as far as why so many Catholic priests have molested children. I think it's because of that Church's strange fixation on sex, which includes forbidding priests from having it. I think that pedophiles and men with other sexually deviant desires choose to devote their lives to the Church because they think that if they swear an oath of celibacy before God, they will be able to resist their urges. Of course, most of them can't, and we already know what the results are. However, I don't think any other Church would be any better at suppressing such urges, or that regular faithful Catholics feel a lesser degree of connection to Jesus. The reason that this problem is not prevalent in other churches is because other churches to make their leaders abstain from sex forever, and therefore do not draw desperate sickos attempting to control themselves. A pedophile would be no less likely to stop and be "cured" by your church as they would be by the Catholic Church (and Atheists certainly aren't more likely to commit evil acts either). So I don't think the connection to God or Jesus nurtured by the Catholic Church (or lack thereof) has anything to do with that particular problem.

That said, I should think that all of the POLITICS of the Catholic Church certainly interfere with any kind of true connection with pure faith, only because I find it hard to imagine how anyone can find that kind of connection with any God through a set of rules and beliefs that are decreed by a bunch of corrupted power mongers. It's seems impossible for their personal faith not to be tainted, assuming that their personal faith is connected to all that dogma that the Church keeps coming up with. It just shocks me that anyone still listens to the politicians from Vatican City, or trust anything that ever came out of it.

fear4freedom · January 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

Humans will fail....and when they put themselves into a religion such as Catholicism...they set themselves up for failure. Religion is a big problem....but its man-made. Its not about a list of rules to follow, or attend a church on Sundays. They set rules for themselves that they could not live up to, and their flesh driven temptations led them to little boys, instead of women. They sought out the weak to prey on! This is why I never went to church, nor wanted to go. Then, I found a non-Denominational Christian church and when I did, it felt different. Its different because its not about religion or a church.....its about a relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Catholics dont have that relationship, therefore the child molesting priests didnt feel convicted from it. Once I realized the Holy Trinity is me inside of a triangle, God the father at the top, Jesus to the bottom left and the Holy Spirit to the bottom right, I began to realize that its all about me and my relationship with them 3. Everything else goes away....including all the man-made rules. I realized its just about that and the Bible and nothing else. Pray the prayer of salvation and become saved. Thats it....I dont have to do anything else. So I found simplicity and true meaningful relationships in non-Denominational Christianity. Noone else can take that away or redefine it! SIMPLE!

That's very nice that you feel comfortable with your choice of religion.
But I don't think I agree with your reasoning as far as why so many Catholic priests have molested children. I think it's because of that Church's strange fixation on sex, which includes forbidding priests from having it. I think that pedophiles and men with other sexually deviant desires choose to devote their lives to the Church because they think that if they swear an oath of celibacy before God, they will be able to resist their urges. Of course, most of them can't, and we already know what the results are. However, I don't think any other Church would be any better at suppressing such urges, or that regular faithful Catholics feel a lesser degree of connection to Jesus. The reason that this problem is not prevalent in other churches is because other churches to make their leaders abstain from sex forever, and therefore do not draw desperate sickos attempting to control themselves. A pedophile would be no less likely to stop and be "cured" by your church as they would be by the Catholic Church (and Atheists certainly aren't more likely to commit evil acts either). So I don't think the connection to God or Jesus nurtured by the Catholic Church (or lack thereof) has anything to do with that particular problem.

That said, I should think that all of the POLITICS of the Catholic Church certainly interfere with any kind of true connection with pure faith, only because I find it hard to imagine how anyone can find that kind of connection with any God through a set of rules and beliefs that are decreed by a bunch of corrupted power mongers. It's seems impossible for their personal faith not to be tainted, assuming that their personal faith is connected to all that dogma that the Church keeps coming up with. It just shocks me that anyone still listens to the politicians from Vatican City, or trust anything that ever came out of it.

I appreciate your response....here is what I see....We both agree that Catholics set themselves up for failure. I dont see the Catholic diocese pray the "prayer of salvation" and recieve the Holy Spirit as a part of a relationship with the Holy Trinity. It seems all regulated from beginning to end in the Catholic Church. I never felt a thing, nor retained ANYTHING, when i attended a Catholic Church. It felt totally fake. My church now looks like a college campus. It has elevators, cafeteria's, conf. rooms, theater rooms and concert halls. Its DC's mega church! When you recieve the Holy Spirit, pray the prayer of salvation and begin to have a true relationship with Jesus and the Father, it becomes real! You begin to "feel it". This relationship allows you to feel God's grace and mercy, yet it also convicts you and teaches you to resist temptation. This is what Catholics are missing. They dont have that, therefore, the priests, whom cannot marry, decide to fall to their temptations. That is why there was a phenomenon in the Catholic Church.

PJ_Soul · January 2013

fear4freedom wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

Humans will fail....and when they put themselves into a religion such as Catholicism...they set themselves up for failure. Religion is a big problem....but its man-made. Its not about a list of rules to follow, or attend a church on Sundays. They set rules for themselves that they could not live up to, and their flesh driven temptations led them to little boys, instead of women. They sought out the weak to prey on! This is why I never went to church, nor wanted to go. Then, I found a non-Denominational Christian church and when I did, it felt different. Its different because its not about religion or a church.....its about a relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Catholics dont have that relationship, therefore the child molesting priests didnt feel convicted from it. Once I realized the Holy Trinity is me inside of a triangle, God the father at the top, Jesus to the bottom left and the Holy Spirit to the bottom right, I began to realize that its all about me and my relationship with them 3. Everything else goes away....including all the man-made rules. I realized its just about that and the Bible and nothing else. Pray the prayer of salvation and become saved. Thats it....I dont have to do anything else. So I found simplicity and true meaningful relationships in non-Denominational Christianity. Noone else can take that away or redefine it! SIMPLE!

That's very nice that you feel comfortable with your choice of religion.
But I don't think I agree with your reasoning as far as why so many Catholic priests have molested children. I think it's because of that Church's strange fixation on sex, which includes forbidding priests from having it. I think that pedophiles and men with other sexually deviant desires choose to devote their lives to the Church because they think that if they swear an oath of celibacy before God, they will be able to resist their urges. Of course, most of them can't, and we already know what the results are. However, I don't think any other Church would be any better at suppressing such urges, or that regular faithful Catholics feel a lesser degree of connection to Jesus. The reason that this problem is not prevalent in other churches is because other churches to make their leaders abstain from sex forever, and therefore do not draw desperate sickos attempting to control themselves. A pedophile would be no less likely to stop and be "cured" by your church as they would be by the Catholic Church (and Atheists certainly aren't more likely to commit evil acts either). So I don't think the connection to God or Jesus nurtured by the Catholic Church (or lack thereof) has anything to do with that particular problem.

That said, I should think that all of the POLITICS of the Catholic Church certainly interfere with any kind of true connection with pure faith, only because I find it hard to imagine how anyone can find that kind of connection with any God through a set of rules and beliefs that are decreed by a bunch of corrupted power mongers. It's seems impossible for their personal faith not to be tainted, assuming that their personal faith is connected to all that dogma that the Church keeps coming up with. It just shocks me that anyone still listens to the politicians from Vatican City, or trust anything that ever came out of it.

I appreciate your response....here is what I see....We both agree that Catholics set themselves up for failure. I dont see the Catholic diocese pray the "prayer of salvation" and recieve the Holy Spirit as a part of a relationship with the Holy Trinity. It seems all regulated from beginning to end in the Catholic Church. I never felt a thing, nor retained ANYTHING, when i attended a Catholic Church. It felt totally fake. My church now looks like a college campus. It has elevators, cafeteria's, conf. rooms, theater rooms and concert halls. Its DC's mega church! When you recieve the Holy Spirit, pray the prayer of salvation and begin to have a true relationship with Jesus and the Father, it becomes real! You begin to "feel it". This relationship allows you to feel God's grace and mercy, yet it also convicts you and teaches you to resist temptation. This is what Catholics are missing. They dont have that, therefore, the priests, whom cannot marry, decide to fall to their temptations. That is why there was a phenomenon in the Catholic Church.

Not to start anything, but some people would argue that those mega-Churches disable their ability to connect with the Holy Spirit just as much as the Catholic Church, if not more so (certain mega churches have also been under scrutiny, usually for embezzlement and fraud). What I mean is, it's all a matter of perspective. What you could not connect to isn't necessarily what other can't connect to. But I can appreciate what you say on a very personal level, for yourself. I just don't know if it can be applied in a general sense. Personally, I don't understand why churches exist at all, Catholic or otherwise, especially when you're talking about being closer to Jesus. It seems to me that Jesus was rather against organized religion all together, or at least didn't think that Churches brought people any closer to God than they could be otherwise without church. If anything, I thought church just served as a place for like-minded people to meet and to relate to one another. Not to find a closer connection to God.

fear4freedom · January 2013

I can empathize with you. I certainly agree everyone is different so it is recieved that way also. But there should always be a place where like minded people can go and worship, small group and study the word together. Also, my church is fun and amazing for kids. Great place to raise your kids if you dont want them to be immersed in video games and hollywood. They are actively pursuing God and recieving Him. Also, theyre hearts are softened....not hardened! Great place. I love where I go. I agree many churches are corrupt or at least not what they say they are....so its important to learn about it and see where the money goes. I just like a church that doesnt have a cemetary in the back yard! LOL

Thirty Bills Unpaid · January 2013

hedonist wrote:

But then what does the shut-down do? What would it solve?

(and yes, teachers - like the peds in the CC - have been passed around...way too much)

This couldn't be further from the truth. Teachers who abuse kids are abhorred and lose their license to teach. That stuff does happen periodically, but it is not tolerated at all. If there actually is a place that allows teachers to breach the most sacred level of trust they are given and resurface to teach again... then that region needs to get that fixed right away!

The church covers up those nasty incidents and church officials protect each other. It's set up really well for deviants because- from what I understand (and I could be wrong)- the religion essentially accepts the behaviours by pardoning the offender who seeks forgiveness for their sins... over and over again if need be.

Do I got this right?

hedonist · January 2013

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

hedonist wrote:

But then what does the shut-down do? What would it solve?

(and yes, teachers - like the peds in the CC - have been passed around...way too much)

This couldn't be further from the truth. Teachers who abuse kids are abhorred and lose their license to teach. That stuff does happen periodically, but it is not tolerated at all. If there actually is a place that allows teachers to breach the most sacred level of trust they are given and resurface to teach again... then that region needs to get that fixed right away!

The church covers up those nasty incidents and church officials protect each other. It's set up really well for deviants because- from what I understand (and I could be wrong)- the religion essentially accepts the behaviours by pardoning the offender who seeks forgiveness for their sins... over and over again if need be.

Do I got this right?

Actually, here, lately...many teachers have been put on paid admin leave while these charges are investigated - including the one who filmed his young students eating his cum from a spoon while bound.

So sorry. It has been tolerated.

mysticweed · January 2013

i firmly believe the catholic church has been a hoax since its inception
abuse of power has run rampant throughout its history
and sexual abuse of boys and girls has been overlooked and permitted for centuries

Thirty Bills Unpaid · January 2013

hedonist wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

hedonist wrote:

But then what does the shut-down do? What would it solve?

(and yes, teachers - like the peds in the CC - have been passed around...way too much)

This couldn't be further from the truth. Teachers who abuse kids are abhorred and lose their license to teach. That stuff does happen periodically, but it is not tolerated at all. If there actually is a place that allows teachers to breach the most sacred level of trust they are given and resurface to teach again... then that region needs to get that fixed right away!

The church covers up those nasty incidents and church officials protect each other. It's set up really well for deviants because- from what I understand (and I could be wrong)- the religion essentially accepts the behaviours by pardoning the offender who seeks forgiveness for their sins... over and over again if need be.

Do I got this right?

Actually, here, lately...many teachers have been put on paid admin leave while these charges are investigated - including the one who filmed his young students eating his cum from a spoon while bound.

So sorry. It has been tolerated.

I'm not sure that allowing the legal process to occur is the same as toleration. Everyone on this forum swears by 'due process' so let's stay consistent: even in the worst cases, people are presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. He should be paid until he's proven guilty.

Then...

... that guy you speak of can die. I know of the incident and death would be too good for that sick, predatory bastard in my opinion. Let's get serious though: he's not going to be teaching again.

Now, back to the church's moral corruption shall we?

hedonist · January 2013

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I'm not sure that allowing the legal process to occur is the same as toleration. Everyone on this forum swears by 'due process' so let's stay consistent: even in the worst cases, people are presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. He should be paid until he's proven guilty.

Then...

... that guy you speak of can die. I know of the incident and death would be too good for that sick, predatory bastard in my opinion. Let's get serious though: he's not going to be teaching again.

Now, back to the church's moral corruption shall we?

I figured that his actions he preserved on film appropriately evidenced his guilt.

Apologies if I trailed from the initial topic; was drawing parallels to the shut-er-down post. No free passes, from here.

Your first point isn't lost on me, by the way.

PJ_Soul · January 2013

hedonist wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

hedonist wrote:

But then what does the shut-down do? What would it solve?

(and yes, teachers - like the peds in the CC - have been passed around...way too much)

This couldn't be further from the truth. Teachers who abuse kids are abhorred and lose their license to teach. That stuff does happen periodically, but it is not tolerated at all. If there actually is a place that allows teachers to breach the most sacred level of trust they are given and resurface to teach again... then that region needs to get that fixed right away!

The church covers up those nasty incidents and church officials protect each other. It's set up really well for deviants because- from what I understand (and I could be wrong)- the religion essentially accepts the behaviours by pardoning the offender who seeks forgiveness for their sins... over and over again if need be.

Do I got this right?

Actually, here, lately...many teachers have been put on paid admin leave while these charges are investigated - including the one who filmed his young students eating his cum from a spoon while bound.

So sorry. It has been tolerated.

That's not tolerating anything. That's waiting until accusations are proven to be true (do you have any idea how often kids accuse their teachers falsely? A LOT! Of course teachers get paid admin leave until they're proven guilty. Justike cops if they've been accused of doing something. That isn't sweeping anything under the rug, it certainly isn't keeping things quiet, and if a teacher is found guilty, of course they never teach again, and usually go to jail. And their colleagues are as sick about it as anyone. Not the case with the church. They actively go about trying to cover it up!!! And even keep the offender in a position where they have pfesumed authority over and access to children! As far as I'm concerned, those church leaders even with knowledge of such activity that fail to report it to police should be tried and sentenced to prison. That includes the Pope.

hedonist · January 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's not tolerating anything. That's waiting until accusations are proven to be true (do you have any idea how often kids accuse their teachers falsely? A LOT! Of course teachers get paid admin leave until they're proven guilty. Justike cops if they've been accused of doing something. That isn't sweeping anything under the rug, it certainly isn't keeping things quiet, and if a teacher is found guilty, of course they never teach again, and usually go to jail. And their colleagues are as sick about it as anyone. Not the case with the church. They a tively go about trying to cover it up!!!

I gotcha. See my post above, please.

Catholic Church up to the same old sh*t

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