Catholic Church up to the same old sh*t

PJ_Soul

hedonist wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I'm not sure that allowing the legal process to occur is the same as toleration. Everyone on this forum swears by 'due process' so let's stay consistent: even in the worst cases, people are presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. He should be paid until he's proven guilty.

Then...

... that guy you speak of can die. I know of the incident and death would be too good for that sick, predatory bastard in my opinion. Let's get serious though: he's not going to be teaching again.

Now, back to the church's moral corruption shall we?

I figured that his actions he preserved on film appropriately evidenced his guilt.

Apologies if I trailed from the initial topic; was drawing parallels to the shut-er-down post. No free passes, from here.

Your first point isn't lost on me, by the way.

You still need a trial, no matter how compelling the evidence is. I think you know that's how it's done in north america.

PJ_Soul

hedonist wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's not tolerating anything. That's waiting until accusations are proven to be true (do you have any idea how often kids accuse their teachers falsely? A LOT! Of course teachers get paid admin leave until they're proven guilty. Justike cops if they've been accused of doing something. That isn't sweeping anything under the rug, it certainly isn't keeping things quiet, and if a teacher is found guilty, of course they never teach again, and usually go to jail. And their colleagues are as sick about it as anyone. Not the case with the church. They a tively go about trying to cover it up!!!

I gotcha. See my post above, please.

Btw, my parents were both educators (my dad a principal, my mom a teacher), and I heard the inside stories about teachers accused. So many times, some little asshole student who was given detention or were in their eyes somehow treated unfairly by a teacher cried sexual abuse or misconduct just to get back at the teacher. In most cases, it didn't get further than a meeting with the student, their parents, and the principal (where the student confessed to lying). But once in a while an especially vengeful student would take it farther, to the point where news got out, parents started pulling their kids and calling for the tea her to be fired and/or arrested. My parents knew a couple of tea hers whose lives were ruined ckmetely because people wouldn't wait for a fair investigation. By the time it's determined then teacher is innocent, it's too late to save their career. :( Parents don't want their kids in a classroom with someone who was ever accused, even if they were found innocent ... I know it's off topic, but oh well.

polaris_x

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/02/05/vatican_systematically_allowed_priests_to_rape_children_says_un_report.html

VATICAN CITY—A UN human rights committee denounced the Vatican on Wednesday for “systematically” adopting policies that allowed priests to rape and molest tens of thousands of children over decades, and urged it to open its files on the pedophiles and the bishops who concealed their crimes.

more on the link ...

gimmesometruth27

wow.

as someone said earlier, shut it down. you have to. what other institution with even a similar record of these abuses would be allowed to carry on??

PJ_Soul

gimmesometruth27 said:

wow.

as someone said earlier, shut it down. you have to. what other institution with even a similar record of these abuses would be allowed to carry on??

Well apparently, the Catholic Church is above the law. Not sure how that happened, but it's basically true. :-??

rgambs

catholic church has always been above the law! it used to BE the law

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

catholic church has always been above the law! it used to BE the law

Yeah I know it used to be, but I was under the impression that in this day and age they weren't, especially in North America. Obviously not, but I'm having trouble understanding how or why. I know the history of the Catholic Church VERY well, but I don't know much at all about it and how it deals with the law and government in NA present day. This actually seems more like a case of pointing the finger in the wrong direction. Shouldn't it be law enforcement who we should be chasing with pitchforks for not investigating the abuse?? I mean, of course the Church is all fucked up and is protecting child molesters, but since when did we expect any organized religion to not be completely corrupt and fucked up? It's law enforcement that should be doing something here.

hedonist

Totally agree with you about law enforcement, prosecutors, et al stepping up (as the church itself should have, and should be).

...but do you truly apply "completely corrupt" to all organized religions? All facets? That, I just don't see...not that end of the spectrum.

PJ_Soul

hedonist said:

Totally agree with you about law enforcement, prosecutors, et al stepping up (as the church itself should have, and should be).

...but do you truly apply "completely corrupt" to all organized religions? All facets? That, I just don't see...not that end of the spectrum.

I am strongly anti-organized religion for sure, and while of course I acknowledge that some good things come out of organized religions (not enough to justify them), I also believe that it would be impossible to find one that didn't have a river of corruption running through it.

hedonist

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

Totally agree with you about law enforcement, prosecutors, et al stepping up (as the church itself should have, and should be).

...but do you truly apply "completely corrupt" to all organized religions? All facets? That, I just don't see...not that end of the spectrum.

I am strongly anti-organized religion for sure, and while of course I acknowledge that some good things come out of them, I also believe that it would be impossible to find one that didn't have a river of corruption running under it.

Yes, A river...maybe even a few. Just not the whole damn thing flooded out

backseatLover12

Ya know, as nasty as this thread is, I've just gotta say that Pope Frank has done a lot to change the image of the Catholic Church. He can't single handedly solve the corruption and even though he should fire all the priests guilty of touching children, he probably won't (there wouldn't be many priests left) but he is certainly a breath of fresh, evolving air. That, cannot be denied.

PJ_Soul

He knows exactly what he's doing. Their number one priority right now is to bring people back into the fold and to stop losing followers. It is no coincidence that Pope Francis is saying all of the exact things that people need to hear. It is all orchestrated IMO. Whether or not Pope Francis is a decent person is neither here nor there. Reel em back in and keep up with the same old shit as soon as they caught. It is working like a charm!

backseatLover12

Frank doesn't have to accept Gays. So drop the whole thing about only saying what he has to say to get people back. You obvious have strong hate for the organization so it's doubtful that you'll say anything fair about Frank nor the Church. Your hatred shows.

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

Frank doesn't have to accept Gays. So drop the whole thing about only saying what he has to say to get people back. You obvious have strong hate for the organization so it's doubtful that you'll say anything fair about Frank nor the Church. Your hatred shows.

I don't try to hide my hatred for organized religion, so I should hope that it does show. Who said anything about gays?? What is your problem?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

backseatLover12 said:

Ya know, as nasty as this thread is, I've just gotta say that Pope Frank has done a lot to change the image of the Catholic Church. He can't single handedly solve the corruption and even though he should fire all the priests guilty of touching children, he probably won't (there wouldn't be many priests left) but he is certainly a breath of fresh, evolving air. That, cannot be denied.

Even though he should fire all the priests guilty of touching children?

Do ya think?

The church has set up a mind-numbing atmosphere for pedophiles to not only conduct, but thrive with their filthy business. Think about it: access to children, blind faith, trust, and forgiving parents.

Brilliantly played men who prey on children. Brilliantly played.

rgambs

i agree it is a PR campaign and not a sign of change

backseatLover12

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

backseatLover12 said:

Ya know, as nasty as this thread is, I've just gotta say that Pope Frank has done a lot to change the image of the Catholic Church. He can't single handedly solve the corruption and even though he should fire all the priests guilty of touching children, he probably won't (there wouldn't be many priests left) but he is certainly a breath of fresh, evolving air. That, cannot be denied.

Even though he should fire all the priests guilty of touching children?

Do ya think?

The church has set up a mind-numbing atmosphere for pedophiles to not only conduct, but thrive with their filthy business. Think about it: access to children, blind faith, trust, and forgiving parents.

Brilliantly played men who prey on children. Brilliantly played.

Granted, I left the church years ago, before this unraveled, I have family still devout. So, I give them the benefit of the doubt. You and I may see how destructive the church is, but MANY still believe in the faith. Whether I agree with it is moot. Religious beliefs are extremely personal, and no one's going to shut down the Vatican nor the faith when so many still practice it. It's a religion wrapped up in traditional values, not willing of evolve at all. Until Pope Frank. I do give him credit for trying to save it. Whether he does or not.

backseatLover12

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

Frank doesn't have to accept Gays. So drop the whole thing about only saying what he has to say to get people back. You obvious have strong hate for the organization so it's doubtful that you'll say anything fair about Frank nor the Church. Your hatred shows.

I don't try to hide my hatred for organized religion, so I should hope that it does show. Who said anything about gays?? What is your problem?

You're an angry person. Debating an angry person refusing to see the other side is completely pointless.

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

Frank doesn't have to accept Gays. So drop the whole thing about only saying what he has to say to get people back. You obvious have strong hate for the organization so it's doubtful that you'll say anything fair about Frank nor the Church. Your hatred shows.

I don't try to hide my hatred for organized religion, so I should hope that it does show. Who said anything about gays?? What is your problem?

You're an angry person. Debating an angry person refusing to see the other side is completely pointless.

I'm not an angry person at all.
I see the other side. I just don't see it the same way you do.

rgambs

i don't know PJ_Soul, but i've seen that ducky all over the forum and i certainly wouldn't say she/he is an angry person at all.

It's easy to get heated with a topic like religion though, the pendulum throws.



>:)