People Nowadays

Jeanwah · November 2012

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

And in what way does having a cell phone truly make one secure?

You can call 911 if you're in trouble in any way, call AAA if your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, and call someone or consult GPS if you're lost, and police can trace your signal if you've disappeared, as in been reported missing. (Again, all search and rescue crews advise everyone going into the woods or out on the ocean, especially alone, to carry a cell phone or satellite phone in case of emergency). They are very useful.

Poor thing, you're scared shitless, it sounds.

Jeanwah · November 2012

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I prefer the convenience and security of a phone and the freedom to turn it off or not answer it when I don't want to be tracked down. But I do think it sucks that parents' leashes have become too short. I guess a lot of kids might not be allowed to just turn off or not answer. Yes, that is lame.

See, you are a part of that Y generation, the generation that grew up with cell phones. You don't know what life is like without the internet of a portable smart phone... It was a lot more freer to not be attached to these things, let me tell you. Public telephones were the norm and were quite available when needed.

Huh? I'm generation X. I didn't get my first cell phone until in was 26. I was born in 1976 and am quite knowledgeable about growing up in the 80s. I just adapt well and see value where there is value to be had.

But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.

Drowned Out · November 2012

I do agree with you to an extent, jeanwah.....but I am finding myself on the devil's advocate side here.
This criticism, while I agree in ways (like how odd it seems to me to film an entire concert on an iphone), there are ways that this complaint feels like the old 'kids these days, with their devil music and wild dancing' kind of thing....
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be.... when the way things used to be just plain sucked compared to now.
I read an article a while back about parents who let kids play with electronics....the author used the example of extended car rides, and how for the longest time she was insisting her kids use their imaginations to entertain themselves......but she admitted that after she thought about it for a while, it was just her being set in her ways and hearing her parents' voices in her head. What is the benefit of forcing a kid to play "I spy" for four hours, instead of letting them play tetris on a phone or something? My parents did that to me, and it drove me nuts....like...the trip would have been so much more bearable if they'd just bought me two more AA batteries for my walkman, and a wordsearch puzzle. Instead I had to play I spy and sing stupid fucking camp songs? :roll: On the flipside...I took a vacation with my kids, and found myself totally frustrated that they wanted to play games instead of check out the scenery in a different country....then I realized - the scenery didn't change a whole lot along that one highway - same shit over and over for hours....so why am I being like my parent and insisting they be miserable during that car ride?

Don't know if I'm making my point or not, but again.....it comes down to 'all things in moderation' (including moderation).

Jeanwah · November 2012

Drowned Out wrote:

I do agree with you to an extent, jeanwah.....but I am finding myself on the devil's advocate side here.
This criticism, while I agree in ways (like how odd it seems to me to film an entire concert on an iphone), there are ways that this complaint feels like the old 'kids these days, with their devil music and wild dancing' kind of thing....
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be.... when the way things used to be just plain sucked compared to now.
I read an article a while back about parents who let kids play with electronics....the author used the example of extended car rides, and how for the longest time she was insisting her kids use their imaginations to entertain themselves......but she admitted that after she thought about it for a while, it was just her being set in her ways and hearing her parents' voices in her head. What is the benefit of forcing a kid to play "I spy" for four hours, instead of letting them play tetris on a phone or something? My parents did that to me, and it drove me nuts....like...the trip would have been so much more bearable if they'd just bought me two more AA batteries for my walkman, and a wordsearch puzzle. Instead I had to play I spy and sing stupid fucking camp songs? :roll: On the flipside...I took a vacation with my kids, and found myself totally frustrated that they wanted to play games instead of check out the scenery in a different country....then I realized - the scenery didn't change a whole lot along that one highway - same shit over and over for hours....so why am I being like my parent and insisting they be miserable during that car ride?

Don't know if I'm making my point or not, but again.....it comes down to 'all things in moderation' (including moderation).

I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".

But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.

I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.

PJ_Soul · November 2012

Jeanwah wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

See, you are a part of that Y generation, the generation that grew up with cell phones. You don't know what life is like without the internet of a portable smart phone... It was a lot more freer to not be attached to these things, let me tell you. Public telephones were the norm and were quite available when needed.

Huh? I'm generation X. I didn't get my first cell phone until in was 26. I was born in 1976 and am quite knowledgeable about growing up in the 80s. I just adapt well and see value where there is value to be had.

But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.

That doesn't make sense... I bemoan the fact that parents have too much ability to contact their kids at any time, and you take that as me being young? Huh?
And no, I'm jot scared shitless btw. :roll: Wtf?? Not even close (some people actually think i'm quite careless with my own security). I'm just pointing out the benefits, just in case. It IS good to be able to call if you"re ever in trouble. Sometimes people really are. Doesn't mean I'm scared I'm going to be in trouble. Not at all. I also know that shit happens. What's your problem?? :? You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions.

Anyway, I also like smart phones because I like being able to access the internet wherever I am. Find a store, look up product ratings when trying to decide on a purchase, settle bets immediately, lol, see when the next bus is coming, call a cab when I need one, in use my GPS all the time when I don't know where I'm going, etc etc etc etc. They're great! But again, in do recognize the pitfalls too, and definitely have some concern when it comes to younger people and how they are overly immersed and lacking independence. Plus all the texting and tweeting is destroying their language/writing skills.

Drowned Out · November 2012

Jeanwah wrote:

I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".

But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.

I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.

I agree about the live music experience, and I agree that when people are passing up an experience for a glance at their phone, it's detrimental to their lives and to society in general....but I think in a lot of instances, people are applying this criticism in situations that it doesn't really apply. Let's face it - we have a lot of downtime in our lives....waiting for things. Lineups, waiting rooms, bus stops, travel, non-critical work time

.....yes, if someone is ignoring a concert or standing on a mountain top while texting...sure, wtf???....but for the most part, people disconnect when there is not much better to do. I guess in some of those situations we could take the opportunity to get to know people around us or whatever....but as our lives get busier and busier, and we have less time with our loved ones, live further from them etc....maybe that downtime is a good time to catch up with them with an email, text, or picture exhange?
And no - I'm def not discouraging imagination....I'm saying that in some instances, insisting on imagination was totally taking things too far. Telling a kid to use their imagination and go play outside with their friends, when they have freedom to move, and a whole world around them, is totally different from insisting they do it while locked in a moving car (the example I used).

Jeanwah · November 2012

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.

That doesn't make sense... I bemoan the fact that parents have too much ability to contact their kids at any time, and you take that as me being young? Huh?
And no, I'm jot scared shitless btw. :roll: Wtf?? Not even close (some people actually think i'm quite careless with my own security). I'm just pointing out the benefits, just in case. It IS good to be able to call if you"re ever in trouble. Sometimes people really are. Doesn't mean I'm scared I'm going to be in trouble. Not at all. I also know that shit happens. What's your problem?? :? You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions.

Anyway, I also like smart phones because I like being able to access the internet wherever I am. Find a store, look up product ratings when trying to decide on a purchase, settle bets immediately, lol, see when the next bus is coming, call a cab when I need one, in use my GPS all the time when I don't know where I'm going, etc etc etc etc. They're great! But again, in do recognize the pitfalls too, and definitely have some concern when it comes to younger people and how they are overly immersed and lacking independence. Plus all the texting and tweeting is destroying their language/writing skills.

I don't call being tracked by police, accessibility to internet in the middle of the woods, and living in fear good reasons to owning a smart phone.

PJ_Soul · November 2012

Jeanwah wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

I do agree with you to an extent, jeanwah.....but I am finding myself on the devil's advocate side here.
This criticism, while I agree in ways (like how odd it seems to me to film an entire concert on an iphone), there are ways that this complaint feels like the old 'kids these days, with their devil music and wild dancing' kind of thing....
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be.... when the way things used to be just plain sucked compared to now.
I read an article a while back about parents who let kids play with electronics....the author used the example of extended car rides, and how for the longest time she was insisting her kids use their imaginations to entertain themselves......but she admitted that after she thought about it for a while, it was just her being set in her ways and hearing her parents' voices in her head. What is the benefit of forcing a kid to play "I spy" for four hours, instead of letting them play tetris on a phone or something? My parents did that to me, and it drove me nuts....like...the trip would have been so much more bearable if they'd just bought me two more AA batteries for my walkman, and a wordsearch puzzle. Instead I had to play I spy and sing stupid fucking camp songs? :roll: On the flipside...I took a vacation with my kids, and found myself totally frustrated that they wanted to play games instead of check out the scenery in a different country....then I realized - the scenery didn't change a whole lot along that one highway - same shit over and over for hours....so why am I being like my parent and insisting they be miserable during that car ride?

Don't know if I'm making my point or not, but again.....it comes down to 'all things in moderation' (including moderation).

I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".

But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.

I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.

On the concert front I do agree. It seems crazy to miss the moment by watching it through a screen and worrying about whether or not the shot is okay. Very strange choice to make IMO. However, there are a LOT of people who don't do this. Last show I went to, there were less people filming than not at any given time (a lot less). So it's not like all is lost. And for me.... I don't do it and enjoy the shit out of the show. Just get a few very short snippets of vid to show my friends what it was like. I don't feel all.worked up over those who do it. That's their choice... and frankly, since my observations tell me that well under 50% of people watch concerts through their phones, and if what you say about passion or lack thereof as itnrelates to this issue is true, then I don't think there are any more people without passion than there ever was. It's just coming out in a different way. And that doesn't even address the fact that some people who like to film a lot very well may have TONS of passion, and you are just being sweepingly judgemental, and discounting the idea that perhaps people's passions come out and are expressed in different ways.

PJ_Soul · November 2012

Jeanwah wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.

That doesn't make sense... I bemoan the fact that parents have too much ability to contact their kids at any time, and you take that as me being young? Huh?
And no, I'm jot scared shitless btw. :roll: Wtf?? Not even close (some people actually think i'm quite careless with my own security). I'm just pointing out the benefits, just in case. It IS good to be able to call if you"re ever in trouble. Sometimes people really are. Doesn't mean I'm scared I'm going to be in trouble. Not at all. I also know that shit happens. What's your problem?? :? You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions.

Anyway, I also like smart phones because I like being able to access the internet wherever I am. Find a store, look up product ratings when trying to decide on a purchase, settle bets immediately, lol, see when the next bus is coming, call a cab when I need one, in use my GPS all the time when I don't know where I'm going, etc etc etc etc. They're great! But again, in do recognize the pitfalls too, and definitely have some concern when it comes to younger people and how they are overly immersed and lacking independence. Plus all the texting and tweeting is destroying their language/writing skills.

I don't call being tracked by police, accessibility to internet in the middle of the woods, and living in fear good reasons to owning a smart phone.

Being tracked by police when you went for a hike and never came out of the woods is pretty solid though, no? Not like they are just randomly tracking you. :roll: Access to the internet in the middle of the woods is irrelevant. It's good to have a phone in case you fall and hurt yourself or get lost or stranded. I don't know where you live, but where I live people get lost or hurt in all the surrounding wilderness ALL the time, and they get out because they can call someone. The ones who don't get out and die or suffer for days are the ones who go in without a phone. This is just common sense where I live. And saying that thinking it's nice to be able to call for help if needed is living in fear is like saying having smoke detectors and a fire extinguisher in your home is living in fear too. It's a ridiculous premise. And smoke detectors aren't even useful beyond detecting smoke. You can't check the next movie time with a smoke detector.

brianlux · November 2012

Drowned Out wrote:

The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be....

Well, umm, umm...

You are so right, my friend! Every now and them my peers and I find ourselves saying, "Good gawd, we sound just like our parents!"

Look out- one day you'll say the same thing.

Since I've already outed myself on this thread once as a hypocrite I'll do it again. In my "old guy" opinion, I think too many people not only spend too much time looking at life through their cell phones but through electronic gadgets in general and the internet in particular. But this includes me. I probably spend too much time seeing the world through the 13 1/2 x 7 1/2 in eye in front of me. But on the other hand, the internet has provided me access to people and ideas in ways we never dreamed-- like back in the sixties and seventies when only guys like Mannix had car phones (that were as big as a bread box).

The cell phone picture thing at shows fascinates me. When I saw Jimi Hendrix in 1970 we were allowed to take practically anything into the show (take that anyway you want) including cameras. I have slides (an ancient form of photography where images are projected through a transparency onto a viewing screen) from that show. (I need to make those available before I croak.) Then the 80's came along and you couldn't take anything at all resembling a sound or image device into a show. Now it's cells phones that do everything except take the bass players thumb prints. Fascinating.

But yes, I agree with those who say it makes more sense to be there with the show. I loved that about Missoula. The only thing between my eyes and the band was a mild haze of smoke.

acutejam · November 2012

Wow, this has really taken off all over the place, wonderful discussion!

I love that graphic, but I don't think the TECH is nesc the most important piece. In the past, were we apt to jump in and rescue that drowning person? I think that's up for discussion. But now insult to injury, we don't just walk by, we stop and record.

I think the "doing the right thing" aspect has been fading more and more. If I had come across that scene, I'd be apt to look around for a hidden camera at this point. Thanks MTV and Jackass and Punk'd.

But this age of self-esteem is going to take it's toll, it already is. New hires into the work force can not cope with the old guard. "WHat do you mean I missed the report? You never reminded me it was due!"

The economic downturn has been somewhat of a godsend to HR depts -- fading are the demands for flexible schedules, internet access, big titles. Any job will do in the storm.

There's some kind of correlation between this self-esteem, trophies for everyone, spelling doesn't count movement and the fading "doing the right thing" hiding behind our tech, worried about our own dang selves.

These next generations are growing up with EVERY moment of their lives photographed, video'd, blogged and tweeted -- their parents and friends have been pointing cameras at them non-stop. Their teachers give them all gold stars and the coaches hand trophies to them for making a practice, yet alone an actual game, which doesn't matter, cause they're not keeping score....

And heaven forbid you offer some critical feedback to any of 'em. You'll either find yourself facing a waterfall of tears or a uncontrolled rage of fury.

Tech is just another tool -- what does it matter if i use a compass on my hike or a GPS? A film or digital camera? The more tools you can combine into one box for me, the better I like that. A flare gun or a phone with 911. And again to devil advocate, sitting at home watching sports is WAY more fun with a good twitter group or feed. Given, I could be in the stands, but then I have to deal with all the idiots face to face...

Cacooning of society has been one of the rising trends for decades. We gather for drinks, we drive in a convoy to the event in our little pod of people, we stay in teh herd....

callen · November 2012

Jeanwah wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

People are special. But we need to do a better job of thinking about how our actions can affect others negatively.

We need to do a better job of detaching from technology and actually getting out and living. We need to stop thinking of only ourselves and actually caring about other people. We need to get lost in the music because if we didn't love the music, we wouldn't be on this board writing. Obviously we're music lovers, so why do we let the music get in the way of our love for personal gadgets at shows? I know as a society, we're selfish, but there's no reason for these gadgets to get in the way of a great live show. But they do, because people are more focused on the tangible proof of an event over the actual memory of feeling joy of being there. That's where I'm trying to go with this thread.

Sorry Cincy, your not special. There are 7 Billion others just like us. Just a very successful large mammal.

Why capture at the expense of the missing the present? Take in the moment. Especially at PJ concert.

"Fuck those tomorrow people, its all about the present." EV Night one of 2 day gig.

Jeanwah · November 2012

Drowned Out wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".

But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.

I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.

I agree about the live music experience, and I agree that when people are passing up an experience for a glance at their phone, it's detrimental to their lives and to society in general....but I think in a lot of instances, people are applying this criticism in situations that it doesn't really apply. Let's face it - we have a lot of downtime in our lives....waiting for things. Lineups, waiting rooms, bus stops, travel, non-critical work time .....yes, if someone is ignoring a concert or standing on a mountain top while texting...sure, wtf???....but for the most part, people disconnect when there is not much better to do. I guess in some of those situations we could take the opportunity to get to know people around us or whatever....but as our lives get busier and busier, and we have less time with our loved ones, live further from them etc....maybe that downtime is a good time to catch up with them with an email, text, or picture exhange?
And no - I'm def not discouraging imagination....I'm saying that in some instances, insisting on imagination was totally taking things too far. Telling a kid to use their imagination and go play outside with their friends, when they have freedom to move, and a whole world around them, is totally different from insisting they do it while locked in a moving car (the example I used).

I'm not dissing cell phones in general, just at inopportune moments. You get it! I know our lives are getting busier and busier, but I don't know, I've been through the worst of situations and almost didn't make it through. I see life differently now, would rather not be busy and work my life away, I make time for friends, and do things that really matter to me.

Jeanwah · November 2012

callen wrote:

"Fuck those tomorrow people, its all about the present." EV Night one of 2 day gig.

:thumbup:

lukin2006 · November 2012

If said people are on their phones and not bothering you...who cares? It's their ticket, their money, their time. Has it occurred to anyone that they are there with a spouse or buddy and have no particular interest in the show, not their type of music...who cares what the artists think? Even though I doubt they notice or care, all they care is that they sold enough tickets to make it worth his/her/their while to perform.

People are more connected today, they choose to be, they want to be...the world changes...such as life.

Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.

DS1119 · November 2012

lukin2006 wrote:

Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.

Spot on.

whygohome · November 2012

DS1119 wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.

Spot on.

Not really spot on.
People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.

Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
It's rather annoying and disrespectful.

Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.

DS1119 · November 2012

whygohome wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.

Spot on.

Not really spot on.
People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.

Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
It's rather annoying and disrespectful.

Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.

I think I was spot on and no no one using a cell phone at a concert has never bothered me. That's my opinion. I love all of the youtube videos personally.

whygohome · November 2012

DS1119 wrote:

I think I was spot on and no no one using a cell phone at a concert has never bothered me. That's my opinion. I love all of the youtube videos personally.

Fair enough.

hedonist · November 2012

Jeanwah wrote:

I've been through the worst of situations and almost didn't make it through. I see life differently now, would rather not be busy and work my life away, I make time for friends, and do things that really matter to me.

You remind me so much of my sister, Jeanwah; brutally honest, strong, and decent at the core. She's going through her own tough times, but that attitude of fighter, loyalty, and appreciation for the NOW...just makes me smile at the both of you.

I hope this comes across in the good spirit with which it's intended

People Nowadays

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