People Nowadays

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Comments

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,781
    whygohome wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.


    Spot on.

    Not really spot on.
    People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.

    Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
    It's rather annoying and disrespectful.

    Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.
    I don't think it's the same thing. At a concert, people are screaming and yelling, lights are flashing all over the place, music is blaring... not exactly the same as sitting there quietly in a movie theatre in the dark or enjoying a quiet meal! I agree with the others... with all that other chaos going on at an rock concert, how in the world can some little glowing screens scattered through the crowd bother someone so much??? Unless someone is actually holding a phone in front of my face and really obstructing my view, I couldn't care less.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    hedonist wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I've been through the worst of situations and almost didn't make it through. I see life differently now, would rather not be busy and work my life away, I make time for friends, and do things that really matter to me.
    You remind me so much of my sister, Jeanwah; brutally honest, strong, and decent at the core. She's going through her own tough times, but that attitude of fighter, loyalty, and appreciation for the NOW...just makes me smile at the both of you.

    I hope this comes across in the good spirit with which it's intended :)

    :D Aww, thank you Hedonist, You just made my day! Hugs to you!
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    whygohome wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:


    Spot on.

    Not really spot on.
    People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.

    Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
    It's rather annoying and disrespectful.

    Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.
    I don't think it's the same thing. At a concert, people are screaming and yelling, lights are flashing all over the place, music is blaring... not exactly the same as sitting there quietly in a movie theatre in the dark or enjoying a quiet meal! I agree with the others... with all that other chaos going on at an rock concert, how in the world can some little glowing screens scattered through the crowd bother someone so much??? Unless someone is actually holding a phone in front of my face and really obstructing my view, I couldn't care less.

    One thing about writing in forums is that people pick what they want to out of an entire thread and focus on that small detail rather than consider the entire objective. :roll:

    The point is (as already stated) is that people at shows choose to let their personal technology get in the way of their love of the music. Obviously, phones are more important to people than actually living and enjoying the joy that is felt while being lost in the music, or whatever you're doing at any time that might be enjoyable.

    And to those defending use of using their phones at shows, movies, mountain summits? See the first post of the thread. The cartoon is reflecting you. People nowadays!! :)
  • justam
    justam Posts: 21,415
    Jeanwah, I wonder about this on so many days. People attached to their little phones while they drive, while they are standing in lines, while they are doing A LOT of things.

    They seem disconnected from where they are!

    When it's while they are driving, I kind of resent it. It means there's a distracted, unattentive driver in front of me, or beside me, or behind me.

    In lines, people don't move forward when the line moves, they don't talk to others, they don't talk to the check-out clerk. They're not present!

    Students sit in the back rows of lecture halls and don't listen to the lectures their tuition is paying for. They parents probably don't realize they are wasting the opportunity to learn on some stupid text conversation!

    I think it's irritating in a lot of situations. :geek: Ignoring real life for some trivial text. :wtf:
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,781
    Jeanwah wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    whygohome wrote:

    Not really spot on.
    People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.

    Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
    It's rather annoying and disrespectful.

    Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.
    I don't think it's the same thing. At a concert, people are screaming and yelling, lights are flashing all over the place, music is blaring... not exactly the same as sitting there quietly in a movie theatre in the dark or enjoying a quiet meal! I agree with the others... with all that other chaos going on at an rock concert, how in the world can some little glowing screens scattered through the crowd bother someone so much??? Unless someone is actually holding a phone in front of my face and really obstructing my view, I couldn't care less.

    One thing about writing in forums is that people pick what they want to out of an entire thread and focus on that small detail rather than consider the entire objective. :roll:

    The point is (as already stated) is that people at shows choose to let their personal technology get in the way of their love of the music. Obviously, phones are more important to people than actually living and enjoying the joy that is felt while being lost in the music, or whatever you're doing at any time that might be enjoyable.

    And to those defending use of using their phones at shows, movies, mountain summits? See the first post of the thread. The cartoon is reflecting you. People nowadays!! :)
    In was responding to that particular quoted post there. I already thoroughly covered my thoughts on what you bring up here, earlier in this thread.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,680
    I don't mean to derail here- I think this is related- what is it with driving and being on the cell phone and worse, driving and texting? It's against the law to do both in California yet it seems to be everywhere- and I don't drive that much.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,781
    brianlux wrote:
    I don't mean to derail here- I think this is related- what is it with driving and being on the cell phone and worse, driving and texting? It's against the law to do both in California yet it seems to be everywhere- and I don't drive that much.
    That's just people who arrogantly think that bad things, like dying in car accidents, can't happen to them.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,680
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    I don't mean to derail here- I think this is related- what is it with driving and being on the cell phone and worse, driving and texting? It's against the law to do both in California yet it seems to be everywhere- and I don't drive that much.
    That's just people who arrogantly think that bad things, like dying in car accidents, can't happen to them.

    Yes, and even if they don't think they will get killed I wonder if it occurs to them that maybe someone walking the streets won't be that fortunate? :|
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    whygohome wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.


    Spot on.

    Not really spot on.
    People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.

    Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
    It's rather annoying and disrespectful.

    Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.

    No really doesn't bother me...as long as their cell phone don't continuously ring...I generally mind my own business.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Jeanwah wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I've been through the worst of situations and almost didn't make it through. I see life differently now, would rather not be busy and work my life away, I make time for friends, and do things that really matter to me.
    You remind me so much of my sister, Jeanwah; brutally honest, strong, and decent at the core. She's going through her own tough times, but that attitude of fighter, loyalty, and appreciation for the NOW...just makes me smile at the both of you.

    I hope this comes across in the good spirit with which it's intended :)

    :D Aww, thank you Hedonist, You just made my day! Hugs to you!
    And to you :)

    brian, yes...so many times I'm sitting at the light on the way home from work, waiting for the left-turn green arrow, check the rearview and the person behind me is clearly doing something on their phone - distracted. Sometimes I brace myself that they're gonna plow into me as soon as I shift up a foot or two.
  • helplessdancer
    helplessdancer Posts: 5,293
    Jeanwah wrote:

    I feel this way particularly when I go to a show, and I can only wonder how the artists on stage feel. Why are people more focused on their mobile devices than the world? Why can't I go to a show and see the folks in the front few rows rocking out and getting lost in the music rather than texting or taking pictures? What happened to people that we are unable to tune in to what's in front of us rather than being lost in technology? And I do feel that it's also a generational thing.

    Same goes for meeting celebrities. No longer are meet and greets about talking to your idols; it's become nothing but having tangible proof that you were in the same room together. I was at a meet and greet last week and no one said a word to the person I met; people were more interested in autographs and photos rather than actually asking how he was doing. And let me tell you, he was uncomfortable as hell being there, which is odd because he's so comfortable talking to people otherwise (you can't really shut him up, on stage and out and about).

    So what's up with this bizarre behavior that everyone seems to participate in? People are just dying to "meet" members of the band but that only means having a physical piece of them? What happened to valuing the experience?

    some artists love the attention of pictures/cameras. u2 for example
    i'm also sure that there are a bunch of new artists that would love the publicity of someone actually caring about their band and putting a live video up on utube or sharing a pic as a tweet

    some people take videos on their phones/cameras as selfish acts and they post those videos to utube so everyone may enjoy

    i happen love utube and i love the person's philly rndm videos he took, selfishly for us(well maybe not for you)

    seeking autographs is hardly a new concept. i happen to cherish the autographs i have got in person over the many years and i always try to get them personalized whenever possible.

    smart phones are the future and some people are living in the past. it won't be going back to the days of old so don't hold yer breath :)

    some of my bands LOVE twitter and i don't have a smart phone cause i don't need one and life goes on

    live and let live

    if stuff like this is bothering you then i think you need bigger things to worry about
    i'm glad there are fan made live videos of eyes of the world on utube

    the little stuff just doesn't really bother me, after august 1995
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    helplessdancer wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:

    I feel this way particularly when I go to a show, and I can only wonder how the artists on stage feel. Why are people more focused on their mobile devices than the world? Why can't I go to a show and see the folks in the front few rows rocking out and getting lost in the music rather than texting or taking pictures? What happened to people that we are unable to tune in to what's in front of us rather than being lost in technology? And I do feel that it's also a generational thing.

    Same goes for meeting celebrities. No longer are meet and greets about talking to your idols; it's become nothing but having tangible proof that you were in the same room together. I was at a meet and greet last week and no one said a word to the person I met; people were more interested in autographs and photos rather than actually asking how he was doing. And let me tell you, he was uncomfortable as hell being there, which is odd because he's so comfortable talking to people otherwise (you can't really shut him up, on stage and out and about).

    So what's up with this bizarre behavior that everyone seems to participate in? People are just dying to "meet" members of the band but that only means having a physical piece of them? What happened to valuing the experience?

    some artists love the attention of pictures/cameras. u2 for example
    i'm also sure that there are a bunch of new artists that would love the publicity of someone actually caring about their band and putting a live video up on utube or sharing a pic as a tweet

    some people take videos on their phones/cameras as selfish acts and they post those videos to utube so everyone may enjoy

    i happen love utube and i love the person's philly rndm videos he took, selfishly for us(well maybe not for you)

    seeking autographs is hardly a new concept. i happen to cherish the autographs i have got in person over the many years and i always try to get them personalized whenever possible.

    smart phones are the future and some people are living in the past. it won't be going back to the days of old so don't hold yer breath :)

    some of my bands LOVE twitter and i don't have a smart phone cause i don't need one and life goes on

    live and let live

    if stuff like this is bothering you then i think you need bigger things to worry about
    i'm glad there are fan made live videos of eyes of the world on utube

    the little stuff just doesn't really bother me, after august 1995

    +1
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    On the news the other morning

    a young mother of two, 22 years old, left them alone to go charge her phone
    at her cousins house.

    No electricity no heat but an oven door left open to warm the apartment
    ages 4 and 6.

    But she has a phone...
    that needs to be charged...
    no heat no electricity but she's got that damn phone...

    priorities
  • helplessdancer
    helplessdancer Posts: 5,293
    pandora wrote:
    On the news the other morning

    a young mother of two, 22 years old, left them alone to go charge her phone
    at her cousins house.

    No electricity no heat but an oven door left open to warm the apartment
    ages 4 and 6.

    But she has a phone...
    that needs to be charged...
    no heat no electricity but she's got that damn phone...

    priorities

    a 22 year old mother of two, aged 4 and 6
    so, what was the point that you are trying to make??
    16years old is to young to have a child...
    and i think your post is in the wrong category ;)

    iloveyoutube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E52mH3p3Hb8
    RNDM - Hollow Girl (Philly) 11-4-12
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    helplessdancer wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    On the news the other morning

    a young mother of two, 22 years old, left them alone to go charge her phone
    at her cousins house.

    No electricity no heat but an oven door left open to warm the apartment
    ages 4 and 6.

    But she has a phone...
    that needs to be charged...
    no heat no electricity but she's got that damn phone...

    priorities

    a 22 year old mother of two, aged 4 and 6
    so, what was the point that you are trying to make??
    16years old is to young to have a child...
    and i think your post is in the wrong category ;)

    iloveyoutube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E52mH3p3Hb8
    RNDM - Hollow Girl (Philly) 11-4-12
    no that phones are a priority as others have mentioned at concerts
    I think a phone is nothing more than a phone not a priority what's so ever

    that wouldn't link in for me ...

    but I love youtube too :D
  • PJFAN13
    PJFAN13 Posts: 1,422
    callen wrote:
    but spending big bucks to see a show and having a 4" screen blaring light right in front of you the entire show royally sucks and not worth it in my opinion.

    Last night = Mumford & Sons. I'm old school, refuse to bring my phone in - crappy old iPhone - love to just rock out and not worry about it breaking, falling, etc...

    I was utterly amazed of how many 4" blaring light screens were up in front of me (to the sides of me and behind me)...flabbergasted, in fact. There can be NO WAY one can enjoy a show handling that thing, staring through it, etc opposed to just living in the moment and enjoying the vibe, can there? On the 2 1/2 hr drive back to San Diego I complained about the people in front of us and my wife said I was crazy and that's the way it is. "People like to post on their Facebook accounts and You Tube"...I don't do Facebook either.
    At 40, feeling like a relic. Thanks god for the dude to my right last night - I still have faith in humanity...
    HIM: "Put the fucking iPhone down or it will fly when I let loose during Little Lion Man" The lady moved, never to be seen again.
    11.30.93~10.2.96~9.13.98~9.1.00~8.25.00~7.3.03~7.5.03
    7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
    8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
    11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
    2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,680
    PJFAN13 wrote:
    callen wrote:
    but spending big bucks to see a show and having a 4" screen blaring light right in front of you the entire show royally sucks and not worth it in my opinion.

    Last night = Mumford & Sons. I'm old school, refuse to bring my phone in - crappy old iPhone - love to just rock out and not worry about it breaking, falling, etc...

    I was utterly amazed of how many 4" blaring light screens were up in front of me (to the sides of me and behind me)...flabbergasted, in fact. There can be NO WAY one can enjoy a show handling that thing, staring through it, etc opposed to just living in the moment and enjoying the vibe, can there? On the 2 1/2 hr drive back to San Diego I complained about the people in front of us and my wife said I was crazy and that's the way it is. "People like to post on their Facebook accounts and You Tube"...I don't do Facebook either.
    At 40, feeling like a relic. Thanks god for the dude to my right last night - I still have faith in humanity...
    HIM: "Put the fucking iPhone down or it will fly when I let loose during Little Lion Man" The lady moved, never to be seen again.


    Good! If venues allow these gadgets I suppose there's nothing that can be done about that, but people should respect the desire of others to not be affected by them. Courtesy needs to be re-introduced into society. If a cell phone or iPhone is bothering someone close by it should be put away.

    There's never an excuse to use these devices while driving and yet I see that all the time and it's like watching an accident waiting to happen. It's criminal and idiotic and happens all the time.

    Edward Abbey once remarked about people having eyed hooded, ears plugged (sunglasses, walkman) as a way of pointing out the more and more we aren't looking at the real world around us. Today, he would be greatly disturbed by all of this.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,781
    helplessdancer wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:

    I feel this way particularly when I go to a show, and I can only wonder how the artists on stage feel. Why are people more focused on their mobile devices than the world? Why can't I go to a show and see the folks in the front few rows rocking out and getting lost in the music rather than texting or taking pictures? What happened to people that we are unable to tune in to what's in front of us rather than being lost in technology? And I do feel that it's also a generational thing.

    Same goes for meeting celebrities. No longer are meet and greets about talking to your idols; it's become nothing but having tangible proof that you were in the same room together. I was at a meet and greet last week and no one said a word to the person I met; people were more interested in autographs and photos rather than actually asking how he was doing. And let me tell you, he was uncomfortable as hell being there, which is odd because he's so comfortable talking to people otherwise (you can't really shut him up, on stage and out and about).

    So what's up with this bizarre behavior that everyone seems to participate in? People are just dying to "meet" members of the band but that only means having a physical piece of them? What happened to valuing the experience?

    some artists love the attention of pictures/cameras. u2 for example
    i'm also sure that there are a bunch of new artists that would love the publicity of someone actually caring about their band and putting a live video up on utube or sharing a pic as a tweet

    some people take videos on their phones/cameras as selfish acts and they post those videos to utube so everyone may enjoy

    i happen love utube and i love the person's philly rndm videos he took, selfishly for us(well maybe not for you)

    seeking autographs is hardly a new concept. i happen to cherish the autographs i have got in person over the many years and i always try to get them personalized whenever possible.

    smart phones are the future and some people are living in the past. it won't be going back to the days of old so don't hold yer breath :)

    some of my bands LOVE twitter and i don't have a smart phone cause i don't need one and life goes on

    live and let live

    if stuff like this is bothering you then i think you need bigger things to worry about
    i'm glad there are fan made live videos of eyes of the world on utube

    the little stuff just doesn't really bother me, after august 1995
    +2
    And Twitter is a GREAT tool for big music fans! I only discovered that recently, and am so glad I did!
    Maybe I missed a post or something... what happened in August 1995?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,781
    pandora wrote:
    helplessdancer wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    On the news the other morning

    a young mother of two, 22 years old, left them alone to go charge her phone
    at her cousins house.

    No electricity no heat but an oven door left open to warm the apartment
    ages 4 and 6.

    But she has a phone...
    that needs to be charged...
    no heat no electricity but she's got that damn phone...

    priorities

    a 22 year old mother of two, aged 4 and 6
    so, what was the point that you are trying to make??
    16years old is to young to have a child...
    and i think your post is in the wrong category ;)

    iloveyoutube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E52mH3p3Hb8
    RNDM - Hollow Girl (Philly) 11-4-12
    no that phones are a priority as others have mentioned at concerts
    I think a phone is nothing more than a phone not a priority what's so ever

    that wouldn't link in for me ...

    but I love youtube too :D
    That story has nothing to do with anything. All of says is that she is a terrible mother. If she hadn't left the kids to charge a phone, she would have left them for any number of other reasons, and probably already had several times before anyone noticed.

    This is all very much just a case of 'kids these days' syndrome. I mean, phones are a priority for young people? This seems new to people?? Because I am pretty sure that young people being glued to a telephone for hours a day is a very old problem. I know that most parents of my friends in the 80s and 90s were ready to get rid of the phones in their homes so that their kid would actually get off the fucking phone for long enough to have an face to face conversation with their family.... seriously, I think some of you are simply getting old and losing perspective (no offense - it happens. But it never hurts to stop and try to grasp reality sometimes either!).

    And as for those people, young and otherwise, at concerts filming everything... I don't personally do it, but come on. It's not about changing attitudes. It's simply about the fact that technology allows us to have a video camera inn the front pocket of hour jeans now. If this existed 20, 30, 40.... years ago, just as many people would have been filming concerts and everything else as well. Some of you act as though all these passion-packed people of yesteryear would have poo-pooed such behaviour. Hardly. Has everyone forgotten about the intense shallowness and materialism and youths' self-absorbtion of the 80s btw? Remember how adults thought generation x was starting to look like a lost cause to the grown ups? Well... now some of you are those grown ups. :lol: Remember telling yourself that you'd never turn into what they were? ... well... :lol:;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    brianlux wrote:
    PJFAN13 wrote:
    callen wrote:
    but spending big bucks to see a show and having a 4" screen blaring light right in front of you the entire show royally sucks and not worth it in my opinion.

    Last night = Mumford & Sons. I'm old school, refuse to bring my phone in - crappy old iPhone - love to just rock out and not worry about it breaking, falling, etc...

    I was utterly amazed of how many 4" blaring light screens were up in front of me (to the sides of me and behind me)...flabbergasted, in fact. There can be NO WAY one can enjoy a show handling that thing, staring through it, etc opposed to just living in the moment and enjoying the vibe, can there? On the 2 1/2 hr drive back to San Diego I complained about the people in front of us and my wife said I was crazy and that's the way it is. "People like to post on their Facebook accounts and You Tube"...I don't do Facebook either.
    At 40, feeling like a relic. Thanks god for the dude to my right last night - I still have faith in humanity...
    HIM: "Put the fucking iPhone down or it will fly when I let loose during Little Lion Man" The lady moved, never to be seen again.


    Good! If venues allow these gadgets I suppose there's nothing that can be done about that, but people should respect the desire of others to not be affected by them. Courtesy needs to be re-introduced into society. If a cell phone or iPhone is bothering someone close by it should be put away.

    There's never an excuse to use these devices while driving and yet I see that all the time and it's like watching an accident waiting to happen. It's criminal and idiotic and happens all the time.

    Edward Abbey once remarked about people having eyed hooded, ears plugged (sunglasses, walkman) as a way of pointing out the more and more we aren't looking at the real world around us. Today, he would be greatly disturbed by all of this.

    Thank you guys for completely getting the jist of why I started this thread.

    Helplessdancer, it's about fully feeling life in a joyful moment, and not being tied to portable electronics and allowing these devices to take precedence of the real experience. Surely, you must love the joy of being completely lost in the music. Have you read the entire thread?

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