I second this. Facebook, Twitter, etc,--it's all about attention. "Look at me!! Look at me!!"
The top aspiration of 21st century culture is to be on TV. Wastebook and the like give people something that is at least close to their goal.
While true for Facebook, Twitter is a pretty powerful tool that doesn't have to be about attention and narcissism (although it can be). Like a lot of people, I was glued to the TV on Sunday night watching coverage of the storm. I was also on twitter the whole time. It was remarkable how far ahead (hours in some cases) that people on twitter were in both getting information out, and debunking some the crap that the networks went on the air with without verifying.
So I guess it just comes down to your own personal taste in social media? The site you use is ok, and the other ones are for selfish douches....? Facebook and twitter are not very different at all.
It's one thing to be annoyed by people who can't live in the moment and are obsessed with their electronics....but the criticisms of facebook people as being self-absorbed celebrity wannabe's is a totally different claim. I think there is a bit of irony there....by coming down on social media with that kind of blanket judgement, they're kinda doing the same thing - elevating the importance of your own personal choice not to participate. In the end, you're just calling your choice of entertainment/downtime superior to someone else's. Non-facebook people seem to love telling everyone how much more in tune with reality they are than facebook users, and how stupid the whole concept of social media is. There has been a new thread about it on the pit every month or two since about 2007.
This website, and pretty much any site that has real-time interaction, can be used in many many different ways...it's just another form of stereotyping to judge people on whether or not they use the site.
I use both, and use them for totally different reasons. On Facebook, I am only friends with people I know in real life. It's for more real life shit (just got invited to a football game with 40 friends and friends of friends over fb this morning, and I already know exactly who is and isn't going Also saw a cute photo of my niece ). On twitter, I don't follow, nor am i followed by, anyone from my real life (excluding those I met through this forum). I do find the two very different. But I don't think that one is better than the other beyond personal taste... Facebook has a more intimate and personal feel, which is really good. Twitter is really fun (i do like it over fb at the moment, maybe just because it's new for me still, while fb is old news), more silly, and better allows for the movement of an incredible amount of info and voices between people, which is also really good. While aware of all the pitfalls, I think both Facebook and twitter are amazing tools.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This past weekend, I was with my mom and sister, talking about my dad's death and how his wife kept some precious items we would have wanted - an old camera, his watch, some photos. But then, it really comes down to the intangible we retain - our memories. The other stuff...is just stuff.
I guess people have become more narcissistic (or have better means of displaying it?). The whole concept of twitter - following - and Facebook - liking - it's just so...strange to me.
Anyway, good post here, Jeanwah. Got me thinking this morning - perhaps a bit too much, but not a bad thing at all.
The bolded part, exactly hedonist! I wonder how many people are really going to remember numerous aspects of shows they spent behind their cameras/phones. There's so much to experience at shows and everywhere really, if we're just actually fully present. Much more to remember, to feel, etc.
And I think the idea of feeling is a huge part of it too. So when we're attached to our selfish tendencies and our portable devices, we're not feeling anything. And what's the point of living if we don't feel?
"I don't wanna think, I wanna feel, And how do I feel?"
Same goes for meeting celebrities. No longer are meet and greets about talking to your idols; it's become nothing but having tangible proof that you were in the same room together. I was at a meet and greet last week and no one said a word to the person I met; people were more interested in autographs and photos rather than actually asking how he was doing. And let me tell you, he was uncomfortable as hell being there, which is odd because he's so comfortable talking to people otherwise (you can't really shut him up, on stage and out and about).
I have a "friend" on facebook... a guy who I went to high school with 20 years ago, and haven't talked to since. I have no idea what he does for a living, but he seems to be a professional meet & greeter, for b-list celebrities. He has literally hundreds of pictures with people (many of which I don't know). I just don't see the point... "Hey, I waited in line to get a picture with an actor who played a support character on a 90's sitcom, aren't you jealous?"
I use both, and use them form totally different reasons. On Facebook, I am only friends with people I know in real life. It's for more real life shit (just got invited to a football game with 40 friends and friends of friends over fb this morning, and I already know exactly who is and isn't going Also saw a cute photo of my niece ). On twitter, I don't follow, nor am in followed by, anyone from my real life (excluding those I met through this forum). In do find the two very different. But I don't think that one is better than the other beyond pernal taste... Facebook has a more intimate and personal feel, which is really good. Twitter is really fun, more silly, and better allows for the movement of an incredible amount of info and voices between people, which is also really good. While aware of all the pitfalls, I think both Facebook and twitter are amazing tools.
But that's just how you choose to use them.....what I meant is that the platform is not all that different.
If you were only fb friends with the celebs and PJ people from your twitter, your feeds would probably look pretty similar. You'd even see a lot of repeated information on the pit if you put everyone but your friends on ignore. I think criticizing social media,like criticizing alcohol/drugs or tv or sports or casual sex or any other form of entertainment, instead of criticizing the addictive behaviour, is silly....and calling fb stupid but twitter important is taking that silliness to a new level.
It really is a good idea to leave all the electronic gadgets behind once in. A day pack with water, compass, a few energy bars, a basic first aid kit, dry matches and at least a few miles of walking away from civilization works wonders.
That and going to a show with nothing on your person except ID and a few bucks and your keys.
:thumbup: Couldn't agree more. That's why I think it's a generational thing. Kids of the 90s and before remember what it was like without having to be attached to a phone. It was great. No one could track us down and that freedom meant everything. I prefer that any day over being tracked.
I prefer the convenience and security of a phone and the freedom to turn it off or not answer it when I don't want to be tracked down. But I do think it sucks that parents' leashes have become too short. I guess a lot of kids might not be allowed to just turn off or not answer. Yes, that is lame.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It really is a good idea to leave all the electronic gadgets behind once in. A day pack with water, compass, a few energy bars, a basic first aid kit, dry matches and at least a few miles of walking away from civilization works wonders.
That and going to a show with nothing on your person except ID and a few bucks and your keys.
:thumbup: Couldn't agree more. That's why I think it's a generational thing. Kids of the 90s and before remember what it was like without having to be attached to a phone. It was great. No one could track us down and that freedom meant everything. I prefer that any day over being tracked.
I prefer the convenience and security of a phone and the freedom to turn it off or not answer it when I don't want to be tracked down.
And in what way does having a cell phone truly make one secure?
:thumbup: Couldn't agree more. That's why I think it's a generational thing. Kids of the 90s and before remember what it was like without having to be attached to a phone. It was great. No one could track us down and that freedom meant everything. I prefer that any day over being tracked.
I prefer the convenience and security of a phone and the freedom to turn it off or not answer it when I don't want to be tracked down.
And in what way does having a cell phone truly make one secure?
You can call 911 if you're in trouble in any way, call AAA if your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, and call someone or consult GPS if you're lost, and police can trace your signal if you've disappeared, as in been reported missing. (Again, all search and rescue crews advise everyone going into the woods or out on the ocean, especially alone, to carry a cell phone or satellite phone in case of emergency). They are very useful.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It really is a good idea to leave all the electronic gadgets behind once in. A day pack with water, compass, a few energy bars, a basic first aid kit, dry matches and at least a few miles of walking away from civilization works wonders.
That and going to a show with nothing on your person except ID and a few bucks and your keys.
:thumbup: Couldn't agree more. That's why I think it's a generational thing. Kids of the 90s and before remember what it was like without having to be attached to a phone. It was great. No one could track us down and that freedom meant everything. I prefer that any day over being tracked.
I prefer the convenience and security of a phone and the freedom to turn it off or not answer it when I don't want to be tracked down. But I do think it sucks that parents' leashes have become too short. I guess a lot of kids might not be allowed to just turn off or not answer. Yes, that is lame.
See, you are a part of that Y generation, the generation that grew up with cell phones. You don't know what life is like without the internet of a portable smart phone... It was a lot more freer to not be attached to these things, let me tell you. Public telephones were the norm and were quite available when needed.
:thumbup: Couldn't agree more. That's why I think it's a generational thing. Kids of the 90s and before remember what it was like without having to be attached to a phone. It was great. No one could track us down and that freedom meant everything. I prefer that any day over being tracked.
I prefer the convenience and security of a phone and the freedom to turn it off or not answer it when I don't want to be tracked down. But I do think it sucks that parents' leashes have become too short. I guess a lot of kids might not be allowed to just turn off or not answer. Yes, that is lame.
See, you are a part of that Y generation, the generation that grew up with cell phones. You don't know what life is like without the internet of a portable smart phone... It was a lot more freer to not be attached to these things, let me tell you. Public telephones were the norm and were quite available when needed.
Huh? I'm generation X. I didn't get my first cell phone until in was 26. I was born in 1976 and am quite knowledgeable about growing up in the 80s.and 90s without the internet. I just adapt well and see value where there is value to be had. Sounds to me like youare ignoring any value and focusing oy on negatives (which certainly do exist).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
And in what way does having a cell phone truly make one secure?
You can call 911 if you're in trouble in any way, call AAA if your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, and call someone or consult GPS if you're lost, and police can trace your signal if you've disappeared, as in been reported missing. (Again, all search and rescue crews advise everyone going into the woods or out on the ocean, especially alone, to carry a cell phone or satellite phone in case of emergency). They are very useful.
I prefer the convenience and security of a phone and the freedom to turn it off or not answer it when I don't want to be tracked down. But I do think it sucks that parents' leashes have become too short. I guess a lot of kids might not be allowed to just turn off or not answer. Yes, that is lame.
See, you are a part of that Y generation, the generation that grew up with cell phones. You don't know what life is like without the internet of a portable smart phone... It was a lot more freer to not be attached to these things, let me tell you. Public telephones were the norm and were quite available when needed.
Huh? I'm generation X. I didn't get my first cell phone until in was 26. I was born in 1976 and am quite knowledgeable about growing up in the 80s. I just adapt well and see value where there is value to be had.
But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.
I do agree with you to an extent, jeanwah.....but I am finding myself on the devil's advocate side here.
This criticism, while I agree in ways (like how odd it seems to me to film an entire concert on an iphone), there are ways that this complaint feels like the old 'kids these days, with their devil music and wild dancing' kind of thing....
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be.... when the way things used to be just plain sucked compared to now.
I read an article a while back about parents who let kids play with electronics....the author used the example of extended car rides, and how for the longest time she was insisting her kids use their imaginations to entertain themselves......but she admitted that after she thought about it for a while, it was just her being set in her ways and hearing her parents' voices in her head. What is the benefit of forcing a kid to play "I spy" for four hours, instead of letting them play tetris on a phone or something? My parents did that to me, and it drove me nuts....like...the trip would have been so much more bearable if they'd just bought me two more AA batteries for my walkman, and a wordsearch puzzle. Instead I had to play I spy and sing stupid fucking camp songs? :roll: On the flipside...I took a vacation with my kids, and found myself totally frustrated that they wanted to play games instead of check out the scenery in a different country....then I realized - the scenery didn't change a whole lot along that one highway - same shit over and over for hours....so why am I being like my parent and insisting they be miserable during that car ride?
Don't know if I'm making my point or not, but again.....it comes down to 'all things in moderation' (including moderation).
I do agree with you to an extent, jeanwah.....but I am finding myself on the devil's advocate side here.
This criticism, while I agree in ways (like how odd it seems to me to film an entire concert on an iphone), there are ways that this complaint feels like the old 'kids these days, with their devil music and wild dancing' kind of thing....
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be.... when the way things used to be just plain sucked compared to now.
I read an article a while back about parents who let kids play with electronics....the author used the example of extended car rides, and how for the longest time she was insisting her kids use their imaginations to entertain themselves......but she admitted that after she thought about it for a while, it was just her being set in her ways and hearing her parents' voices in her head. What is the benefit of forcing a kid to play "I spy" for four hours, instead of letting them play tetris on a phone or something? My parents did that to me, and it drove me nuts....like...the trip would have been so much more bearable if they'd just bought me two more AA batteries for my walkman, and a wordsearch puzzle. Instead I had to play I spy and sing stupid fucking camp songs? :roll: On the flipside...I took a vacation with my kids, and found myself totally frustrated that they wanted to play games instead of check out the scenery in a different country....then I realized - the scenery didn't change a whole lot along that one highway - same shit over and over for hours....so why am I being like my parent and insisting they be miserable during that car ride?
Don't know if I'm making my point or not, but again.....it comes down to 'all things in moderation' (including moderation).
I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".
But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.
I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.
See, you are a part of that Y generation, the generation that grew up with cell phones. You don't know what life is like without the internet of a portable smart phone... It was a lot more freer to not be attached to these things, let me tell you. Public telephones were the norm and were quite available when needed.
Huh? I'm generation X. I didn't get my first cell phone until in was 26. I was born in 1976 and am quite knowledgeable about growing up in the 80s. I just adapt well and see value where there is value to be had.
But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.
That doesn't make sense... I bemoan the fact that parents have too much ability to contact their kids at any time, and you take that as me being young? Huh?
And no, I'm jot scared shitless btw. :roll: Wtf?? Not even close (some people actually think i'm quite careless with my own security). I'm just pointing out the benefits, just in case. It IS good to be able to call if you"re ever in trouble. Sometimes people really are. Doesn't mean I'm scared I'm going to be in trouble. Not at all. I also know that shit happens. What's your problem?? :? You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions.
Anyway, I also like smart phones because I like being able to access the internet wherever I am. Find a store, look up product ratings when trying to decide on a purchase, settle bets immediately, lol, see when the next bus is coming, call a cab when I need one, in use my GPS all the time when I don't know where I'm going, etc etc etc etc. They're great! But again, in do recognize the pitfalls too, and definitely have some concern when it comes to younger people and how they are overly immersed and lacking independence. Plus all the texting and tweeting is destroying their language/writing skills.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".
But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.
I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.
I agree about the live music experience, and I agree that when people are passing up an experience for a glance at their phone, it's detrimental to their lives and to society in general....but I think in a lot of instances, people are applying this criticism in situations that it doesn't really apply. Let's face it - we have a lot of downtime in our lives....waiting for things. Lineups, waiting rooms, bus stops, travel, non-critical work time .....yes, if someone is ignoring a concert or standing on a mountain top while texting...sure, wtf???....but for the most part, people disconnect when there is not much better to do. I guess in some of those situations we could take the opportunity to get to know people around us or whatever....but as our lives get busier and busier, and we have less time with our loved ones, live further from them etc....maybe that downtime is a good time to catch up with them with an email, text, or picture exhange?
And no - I'm def not discouraging imagination....I'm saying that in some instances, insisting on imagination was totally taking things too far. Telling a kid to use their imagination and go play outside with their friends, when they have freedom to move, and a whole world around them, is totally different from insisting they do it while locked in a moving car (the example I used).
But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.
That doesn't make sense... I bemoan the fact that parents have too much ability to contact their kids at any time, and you take that as me being young? Huh?
And no, I'm jot scared shitless btw. :roll: Wtf?? Not even close (some people actually think i'm quite careless with my own security). I'm just pointing out the benefits, just in case. It IS good to be able to call if you"re ever in trouble. Sometimes people really are. Doesn't mean I'm scared I'm going to be in trouble. Not at all. I also know that shit happens. What's your problem?? :? You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions.
Anyway, I also like smart phones because I like being able to access the internet wherever I am. Find a store, look up product ratings when trying to decide on a purchase, settle bets immediately, lol, see when the next bus is coming, call a cab when I need one, in use my GPS all the time when I don't know where I'm going, etc etc etc etc. They're great! But again, in do recognize the pitfalls too, and definitely have some concern when it comes to younger people and how they are overly immersed and lacking independence. Plus all the texting and tweeting is destroying their language/writing skills.
I don't call being tracked by police, accessibility to internet in the middle of the woods, and living in fear good reasons to owning a smart phone.
I do agree with you to an extent, jeanwah.....but I am finding myself on the devil's advocate side here.
This criticism, while I agree in ways (like how odd it seems to me to film an entire concert on an iphone), there are ways that this complaint feels like the old 'kids these days, with their devil music and wild dancing' kind of thing....
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be.... when the way things used to be just plain sucked compared to now.
I read an article a while back about parents who let kids play with electronics....the author used the example of extended car rides, and how for the longest time she was insisting her kids use their imaginations to entertain themselves......but she admitted that after she thought about it for a while, it was just her being set in her ways and hearing her parents' voices in her head. What is the benefit of forcing a kid to play "I spy" for four hours, instead of letting them play tetris on a phone or something? My parents did that to me, and it drove me nuts....like...the trip would have been so much more bearable if they'd just bought me two more AA batteries for my walkman, and a wordsearch puzzle. Instead I had to play I spy and sing stupid fucking camp songs? :roll: On the flipside...I took a vacation with my kids, and found myself totally frustrated that they wanted to play games instead of check out the scenery in a different country....then I realized - the scenery didn't change a whole lot along that one highway - same shit over and over for hours....so why am I being like my parent and insisting they be miserable during that car ride?
Don't know if I'm making my point or not, but again.....it comes down to 'all things in moderation' (including moderation).
I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".
But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.
I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.
On the concert front I do agree. It seems crazy to miss the moment by watching it through a screen and worrying about whether or not the shot is okay. Very strange choice to make IMO. However, there are a LOT of people who don't do this. Last show I went to, there were less people filming than not at any given time (a lot less). So it's not like all is lost. And for me.... I don't do it and enjoy the shit out of the show. Just get a few very short snippets of vid to show my friends what it was like. I don't feel all.worked up over those who do it. That's their choice... and frankly, since my observations tell me that well under 50% of people watch concerts through their phones, and if what you say about passion or lack thereof as itnrelates to this issue is true, then I don't think there are any more people without passion than there ever was. It's just coming out in a different way. And that doesn't even address the fact that some people who like to film a lot very well may have TONS of passion, and you are just being sweepingly judgemental, and discounting the idea that perhaps people's passions come out and are expressed in different ways.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.
That doesn't make sense... I bemoan the fact that parents have too much ability to contact their kids at any time, and you take that as me being young? Huh?
And no, I'm jot scared shitless btw. :roll: Wtf?? Not even close (some people actually think i'm quite careless with my own security). I'm just pointing out the benefits, just in case. It IS good to be able to call if you"re ever in trouble. Sometimes people really are. Doesn't mean I'm scared I'm going to be in trouble. Not at all. I also know that shit happens. What's your problem?? :? You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions.
Anyway, I also like smart phones because I like being able to access the internet wherever I am. Find a store, look up product ratings when trying to decide on a purchase, settle bets immediately, lol, see when the next bus is coming, call a cab when I need one, in use my GPS all the time when I don't know where I'm going, etc etc etc etc. They're great! But again, in do recognize the pitfalls too, and definitely have some concern when it comes to younger people and how they are overly immersed and lacking independence. Plus all the texting and tweeting is destroying their language/writing skills.
I don't call being tracked by police, accessibility to internet in the middle of the woods, and living in fear good reasons to owning a smart phone.
Being tracked by police when you went for a hike and never came out of the woods is pretty solid though, no? Not like they are just randomly tracking you. :roll: Access to the internet in the middle of the woods is irrelevant. It's good to have a phone in case you fall and hurt yourself or get lost or stranded. I don't know where you live, but where I live people get lost or hurt in all the surrounding wilderness ALL the time, and they get out because they can call someone. The ones who don't get out and die or suffer for days are the ones who go in without a phone. This is just common sense where I live. And saying that thinking it's nice to be able to call for help if needed is living in fear is like saying having smoke detectors and a fire extinguisher in your home is living in fear too. It's a ridiculous premise. And smoke detectors aren't even useful beyond detecting smoke. You can't check the next movie time with a smoke detector.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,408
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be....
Well, umm, umm... You are so right, my friend! Every now and them my peers and I find ourselves saying, "Good gawd, we sound just like our parents!" Look out- one day you'll say the same thing.
Since I've already outed myself on this thread once as a hypocrite I'll do it again. In my "old guy" opinion, I think too many people not only spend too much time looking at life through their cell phones but through electronic gadgets in general and the internet in particular. But this includes me. I probably spend too much time seeing the world through the 13 1/2 x 7 1/2 in eye in front of me. But on the other hand, the internet has provided me access to people and ideas in ways we never dreamed-- like back in the sixties and seventies when only guys like Mannix had car phones (that were as big as a bread box).
The cell phone picture thing at shows fascinates me. When I saw Jimi Hendrix in 1970 we were allowed to take practically anything into the show (take that anyway you want) including cameras. I have slides (an ancient form of photography where images are projected through a transparency onto a viewing screen) from that show. (I need to make those available before I croak.) Then the 80's came along and you couldn't take anything at all resembling a sound or image device into a show. Now it's cells phones that do everything except take the bass players thumb prints. Fascinating.
But yes, I agree with those who say it makes more sense to be there with the show. I loved that about Missoula. The only thing between my eyes and the band was a mild haze of smoke.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Wow, this has really taken off all over the place, wonderful discussion!
I love that graphic, but I don't think the TECH is nesc the most important piece. In the past, were we apt to jump in and rescue that drowning person? I think that's up for discussion. But now insult to injury, we don't just walk by, we stop and record.
I think the "doing the right thing" aspect has been fading more and more. If I had come across that scene, I'd be apt to look around for a hidden camera at this point. Thanks MTV and Jackass and Punk'd.
But this age of self-esteem is going to take it's toll, it already is. New hires into the work force can not cope with the old guard. "WHat do you mean I missed the report? You never reminded me it was due!"
The economic downturn has been somewhat of a godsend to HR depts -- fading are the demands for flexible schedules, internet access, big titles. Any job will do in the storm.
There's some kind of correlation between this self-esteem, trophies for everyone, spelling doesn't count movement and the fading "doing the right thing" hiding behind our tech, worried about our own dang selves.
These next generations are growing up with EVERY moment of their lives photographed, video'd, blogged and tweeted -- their parents and friends have been pointing cameras at them non-stop. Their teachers give them all gold stars and the coaches hand trophies to them for making a practice, yet alone an actual game, which doesn't matter, cause they're not keeping score....
And heaven forbid you offer some critical feedback to any of 'em. You'll either find yourself facing a waterfall of tears or a uncontrolled rage of fury.
Tech is just another tool -- what does it matter if i use a compass on my hike or a GPS? A film or digital camera? The more tools you can combine into one box for me, the better I like that. A flare gun or a phone with 911. And again to devil advocate, sitting at home watching sports is WAY more fun with a good twitter group or feed. Given, I could be in the stands, but then I have to deal with all the idiots face to face...
Cacooning of society has been one of the rising trends for decades. We gather for drinks, we drive in a convoy to the event in our little pod of people, we stay in teh herd....
People are special. But we need to do a better job of thinking about how our actions can affect others negatively.
We need to do a better job of detaching from technology and actually getting out and living. We need to stop thinking of only ourselves and actually caring about other people. We need to get lost in the music because if we didn't love the music, we wouldn't be on this board writing. Obviously we're music lovers, so why do we let the music get in the way of our love for personal gadgets at shows? I know as a society, we're selfish, but there's no reason for these gadgets to get in the way of a great live show. But they do, because people are more focused on the tangible proof of an event over the actual memory of feeling joy of being there. That's where I'm trying to go with this thread.
Sorry Cincy, your not special. There are 7 Billion others just like us. Just a very successful large mammal.
Why capture at the expense of the missing the present? Take in the moment. Especially at PJ concert.
"Fuck those tomorrow people, its all about the present." EV Night one of 2 day gig.
I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".
But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.
I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.
I agree about the live music experience, and I agree that when people are passing up an experience for a glance at their phone, it's detrimental to their lives and to society in general....but I think in a lot of instances, people are applying this criticism in situations that it doesn't really apply. Let's face it - we have a lot of downtime in our lives....waiting for things. Lineups, waiting rooms, bus stops, travel, non-critical work time .....yes, if someone is ignoring a concert or standing on a mountain top while texting...sure, wtf???....but for the most part, people disconnect when there is not much better to do. I guess in some of those situations we could take the opportunity to get to know people around us or whatever....but as our lives get busier and busier, and we have less time with our loved ones, live further from them etc....maybe that downtime is a good time to catch up with them with an email, text, or picture exhange?
And no - I'm def not discouraging imagination....I'm saying that in some instances, insisting on imagination was totally taking things too far. Telling a kid to use their imagination and go play outside with their friends, when they have freedom to move, and a whole world around them, is totally different from insisting they do it while locked in a moving car (the example I used).
I'm not dissing cell phones in general, just at inopportune moments. You get it! I know our lives are getting busier and busier, but I don't know, I've been through the worst of situations and almost didn't make it through. I see life differently now, would rather not be busy and work my life away, I make time for friends, and do things that really matter to me.
If said people are on their phones and not bothering you...who cares? It's their ticket, their money, their time. Has it occurred to anyone that they are there with a spouse or buddy and have no particular interest in the show, not their type of music...who cares what the artists think? Even though I doubt they notice or care, all they care is that they sold enough tickets to make it worth his/her/their while to perform.
People are more connected today, they choose to be, they want to be...the world changes...such as life.
Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.
Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.
Spot on.
Not really spot on.
People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.
Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
It's rather annoying and disrespectful.
Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.
Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.
Spot on.
Not really spot on.
People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.
Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
It's rather annoying and disrespectful.
Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.
I think I was spot on and no no one using a cell phone at a concert has never bothered me. That's my opinion. I love all of the youtube videos personally.
I think I was spot on and no no one using a cell phone at a concert has never bothered me. That's my opinion. I love all of the youtube videos personally.
I've been through the worst of situations and almost didn't make it through. I see life differently now, would rather not be busy and work my life away, I make time for friends, and do things that really matter to me.
You remind me so much of my sister, Jeanwah; brutally honest, strong, and decent at the core. She's going through her own tough times, but that attitude of fighter, loyalty, and appreciation for the NOW...just makes me smile at the both of you.
I hope this comes across in the good spirit with which it's intended
Comments
The bolded part, exactly hedonist!
And I think the idea of feeling is a huge part of it too. So when we're attached to our selfish tendencies and our portable devices, we're not feeling anything. And what's the point of living if we don't feel?
"I don't wanna think, I wanna feel, And how do I feel?"
Creepy.
If you were only fb friends with the celebs and PJ people from your twitter, your feeds would probably look pretty similar. You'd even see a lot of repeated information on the pit if you put everyone but your friends on ignore. I think criticizing social media,like criticizing alcohol/drugs or tv or sports or casual sex or any other form of entertainment, instead of criticizing the addictive behaviour, is silly....and calling fb stupid but twitter important is taking that silliness to a new level.
And in what way does having a cell phone truly make one secure?
See, you are a part of that Y generation, the generation that grew up with cell phones. You don't know what life is like without the internet of a portable smart phone... It was a lot more freer to not be attached to these things, let me tell you. Public telephones were the norm and were quite available when needed.
Poor thing, you're scared shitless, it sounds.
But you talk about parents and leashes and kids not being able to shut off their phones. That's why I thought you were much younger.
This criticism, while I agree in ways (like how odd it seems to me to film an entire concert on an iphone), there are ways that this complaint feels like the old 'kids these days, with their devil music and wild dancing' kind of thing....
The majority of people who make these complaints are from the older generation, often lamenting the way things used to be.... when the way things used to be just plain sucked compared to now.
I read an article a while back about parents who let kids play with electronics....the author used the example of extended car rides, and how for the longest time she was insisting her kids use their imaginations to entertain themselves......but she admitted that after she thought about it for a while, it was just her being set in her ways and hearing her parents' voices in her head. What is the benefit of forcing a kid to play "I spy" for four hours, instead of letting them play tetris on a phone or something? My parents did that to me, and it drove me nuts....like...the trip would have been so much more bearable if they'd just bought me two more AA batteries for my walkman, and a wordsearch puzzle. Instead I had to play I spy and sing stupid fucking camp songs? :roll: On the flipside...I took a vacation with my kids, and found myself totally frustrated that they wanted to play games instead of check out the scenery in a different country....then I realized - the scenery didn't change a whole lot along that one highway - same shit over and over for hours....so why am I being like my parent and insisting they be miserable during that car ride?
Don't know if I'm making my point or not, but again.....it comes down to 'all things in moderation' (including moderation).
I see where you think it might be an older person looking at "kids these days".
But I'm talking about living, feeling and being in the present. Yes, it's an observation that kids are attached to their devices more than they are actually living (which goes for adults too), but the reason it's been on my mind is because we've lost the passion for Life, let alone passion for anything! Not to mention, are you really dissing the idea of having an imagination as you stated above, because that's certainly part of it. The electronics and being obsessed with them imposes on any kind of imagination and without the imagination, we are extremely boring people.
I know that when I go to a show, I turn the phone off and insist on fully being in the moment and feeling the joy of live music. There is no feeling when it comes to texting someone while leaning against the rail in the front row.
That doesn't make sense... I bemoan the fact that parents have too much ability to contact their kids at any time, and you take that as me being young? Huh?
And no, I'm jot scared shitless btw. :roll: Wtf?? Not even close (some people actually think i'm quite careless with my own security). I'm just pointing out the benefits, just in case. It IS good to be able to call if you"re ever in trouble. Sometimes people really are. Doesn't mean I'm scared I'm going to be in trouble. Not at all. I also know that shit happens. What's your problem?? :? You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions.
Anyway, I also like smart phones because I like being able to access the internet wherever I am. Find a store, look up product ratings when trying to decide on a purchase, settle bets immediately, lol, see when the next bus is coming, call a cab when I need one, in use my GPS all the time when I don't know where I'm going, etc etc etc etc. They're great! But again, in do recognize the pitfalls too, and definitely have some concern when it comes to younger people and how they are overly immersed and lacking independence. Plus all the texting and tweeting is destroying their language/writing skills.
And no - I'm def not discouraging imagination....I'm saying that in some instances, insisting on imagination was totally taking things too far. Telling a kid to use their imagination and go play outside with their friends, when they have freedom to move, and a whole world around them, is totally different from insisting they do it while locked in a moving car (the example I used).
I don't call being tracked by police, accessibility to internet in the middle of the woods, and living in fear good reasons to owning a smart phone.
Since I've already outed myself on this thread once as a hypocrite I'll do it again. In my "old guy" opinion, I think too many people not only spend too much time looking at life through their cell phones but through electronic gadgets in general and the internet in particular. But this includes me. I probably spend too much time seeing the world through the 13 1/2 x 7 1/2 in eye in front of me. But on the other hand, the internet has provided me access to people and ideas in ways we never dreamed-- like back in the sixties and seventies when only guys like Mannix had car phones (that were as big as a bread box).
The cell phone picture thing at shows fascinates me. When I saw Jimi Hendrix in 1970 we were allowed to take practically anything into the show (take that anyway you want) including cameras. I have slides (an ancient form of photography where images are projected through a transparency onto a viewing screen) from that show. (I need to make those available before I croak.) Then the 80's came along and you couldn't take anything at all resembling a sound or image device into a show. Now it's cells phones that do everything except take the bass players thumb prints. Fascinating.
But yes, I agree with those who say it makes more sense to be there with the show. I loved that about Missoula. The only thing between my eyes and the band was a mild haze of smoke.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I love that graphic, but I don't think the TECH is nesc the most important piece. In the past, were we apt to jump in and rescue that drowning person? I think that's up for discussion. But now insult to injury, we don't just walk by, we stop and record.
I think the "doing the right thing" aspect has been fading more and more. If I had come across that scene, I'd be apt to look around for a hidden camera at this point. Thanks MTV and Jackass and Punk'd.
But this age of self-esteem is going to take it's toll, it already is. New hires into the work force can not cope with the old guard. "WHat do you mean I missed the report? You never reminded me it was due!"
The economic downturn has been somewhat of a godsend to HR depts -- fading are the demands for flexible schedules, internet access, big titles. Any job will do in the storm.
There's some kind of correlation between this self-esteem, trophies for everyone, spelling doesn't count movement and the fading "doing the right thing" hiding behind our tech, worried about our own dang selves.
These next generations are growing up with EVERY moment of their lives photographed, video'd, blogged and tweeted -- their parents and friends have been pointing cameras at them non-stop. Their teachers give them all gold stars and the coaches hand trophies to them for making a practice, yet alone an actual game, which doesn't matter, cause they're not keeping score....
And heaven forbid you offer some critical feedback to any of 'em. You'll either find yourself facing a waterfall of tears or a uncontrolled rage of fury.
Tech is just another tool -- what does it matter if i use a compass on my hike or a GPS? A film or digital camera? The more tools you can combine into one box for me, the better I like that. A flare gun or a phone with 911. And again to devil advocate, sitting at home watching sports is WAY more fun with a good twitter group or feed. Given, I could be in the stands, but then I have to deal with all the idiots face to face...
Cacooning of society has been one of the rising trends for decades. We gather for drinks, we drive in a convoy to the event in our little pod of people, we stay in teh herd....
Sorry Cincy, your not special. There are 7 Billion others just like us. Just a very successful large mammal.
Why capture at the expense of the missing the present? Take in the moment. Especially at PJ concert.
"Fuck those tomorrow people, its all about the present." EV Night one of 2 day gig.
I'm not dissing cell phones in general, just at inopportune moments. You get it! I know our lives are getting busier and busier, but I don't know, I've been through the worst of situations and almost didn't make it through. I see life differently now, would rather not be busy and work my life away, I make time for friends, and do things that really matter to me.
:thumbup:
People are more connected today, they choose to be, they want to be...the world changes...such as life.
Thus brings up the more important question...why not mind ones own business? Why even give it a second thought that someone is on phone? Maybe your not into the concert as much if that little distraction bothers you.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Spot on.
Not really spot on.
People using their phones in public can be quite a nuisance; it can infringe on others trying to enjoy themselves. Have you been to the movies recently? I had to tell a person who was sitting in front of me to stop texting. The light from the phone and the tapping of the keypad is incredibly annoying.
Do you want someone yapping on the phone if you're at a restaurant? At a store? At a concert?
It's rather annoying and disrespectful.
Sometimes, GASP!, we have to be mindful and respectful of those around us.
I think I was spot on and no no one using a cell phone at a concert has never bothered me. That's my opinion. I love all of the youtube videos personally.
Fair enough.
I hope this comes across in the good spirit with which it's intended