Which Is WORSE For Your Health: Marijuana Or Alcohol?
Comments
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What attitude/ opinion do I hold?PJ_Soul wrote:God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
Please enlighten me....0 -
You don't support the legalization of MJ.pandora wrote:
What attitude/ opinion do I hold?PJ_Soul wrote:God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
Please enlighten me....With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
If you are asking is hindsight 20/20 ... I would say of course it is.Drowned Out wrote:pandora wrote:how about we just teach kids not to smoke and drink....
novel idea :fp:
If adults really cared about kids they would do this, set an example, set the very best
example for their children.
Ya, because we know how well preaching abstinence works with teens. :roll:
Tell us pandora, do you practise what you preach? Were you always bone sober thru all of your years as a parent? If not, do you still care about your kids? or was that just your typical half-assed, inflammatory cheapshot?
This doesn't sound like consistence (sic) and foresight to me....pandora wrote:And who is not living it? I lived through it all...
and then some!
jeanwah - I agree with what you're saying - there is absolutely a personal aspect to this. Some of the info I posted, ironically, demonstrates how unreliable studies on MJ can be. It affects people completely differently depending on a list of factors. I think people deserve a little more credit than they're being given in determining what's best for them as ways to maintain their physical and mental health, relax, enjoy themselves, what's best for their kid, what their kids observe and how they interpret their parents' actions. Yes there are bad parents out there. But some people have trouble trying to keep separate their critical thinking process from their 'brain on drugs' conditioning/messiah complex.
But our friend went from the typical appeal to pathos, to using logos to reinforce questionable ethos, so I replied in kind (with the studies)
It can also be risky to reply from a personal standpoint, in a public forum, when there are personal, career, and legal ramifications to implying oneself...finding someone else to make your point can help in that regard.
I think we're kinda pissing in the wind trying to point fingers about who or what is to 'blame' when someone forms an addiction. Parents and home life are definitely factors, but there are a million others.....we might as well cut to the chase and discuss free will vs determinism.
This something all parents learn because all parents make mistakes
it's good to be aware of what you can change to insure
the least amount of damage done, to the gifts we are given, our children.
I think you can agree with that.0 -
PJ_Soul wrote:God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
Most of those constipated politicians are seeking off and smoking in the bathroom or in their country homes. It's a beautiful plant heck even my dear old mother grew one the balcony for it's beauty, she loved the structure/design of the leaves. So did I as a teen, I thought she was crazy for growing it but it did look nice and bushy out there.
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
really since when?PJ_Soul wrote:
You don't support the legalization of MJ.pandora wrote:
What attitude/ opinion do I hold?PJ_Soul wrote:God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
Please enlighten me....
I have always, my entire life supported the legalization of pot...
I thought by now at age 56 it would be but
it was not until this past year or so,
when I hear some wanting the legalization of all drugs including very addicting
and highly dangerous drugs that I have rethought
my decision.
If that is the outcome I will say lets keep it medicinal under the guidance
of a doctor.Post edited by pandora on0 -
PJ_Soul wrote:
I meant OD'ing. Not long term affects... although I think it's a very safe assumption that drinking causes more damage to the liver than smoking pot does to the lungs. The think about pot is that you don't have to inhale very much to get high, where as you have to drink quite a bit to get drunk. Pot heads who don't smoke cigarettes don't actually inhale all that much smoke, and what smoke they do inhale don't contain all those delicious carcinogens that cigarettes have. I doubt there have been very many pot smokers who don't smoke cigarettes who have died of lung cancer.Kel Varnsen wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:Plus, I've never heard of anyone having to go to the hospital or dying because they smoked too much pot. That alone is definitive proof of what is worse for you health.
I am not sure I can accept that. I mean how is it possible that pretty much every other type of smoke entering your lungs is bad for your health yet pot smoke isn't.
Plus it is worth noting I think that alcohol has saved countless lives. I mean back in the days before people understood the need for clean drinking water people who drank beer or wine has a much better chance of surviving things like cholera outbreaks. It was actually to the point where it was discovered that cholera was carried in contaminated water since in London there was an outbreak centered around a public water pump and a disproportional amount of people who weren't getting sick happened to work at a local brewery.
Yes, good points PJ_Soul. In fact, the smoking aspect is becoming less relevant as potency increases and quantity of smoke needed to take in decreases. And marijuana (AKA herbal) vaporizers avoid even more of the toxic and carcinogenic by-products. Not to mention using it in cooking or marijuana butters."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Strange Bedfellows — Politics News
Children’s Alliance: Pot enforcement bad for kids
Enforcement of marijuana laws is not healthy for children and parents and society, according to the statewide Children’s Alliance, which is endorsing Initiative 502, the legalization measure on Washington’s November ballot.
“Current marijuana enforcement is failing children and families: Decades of study have proven the unequal treatment of communities of color in the criminal justice system, especially in enforcement of marijuana policy, and Washington’s kids pay a terrible price for these persistent racial disparities,” said Paola Maranan, executive director of the Children’s Alliance.
I-502 would legalize, tax and regulate the growing of marijuana and its sale to adults. Colorado will vote on a similar measure this fall.
The initiative has drawn an unusual array of supporters: Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, former U.S. Attorney John McKay, Bellingham Mayor Kelly Linville, travel guru Rick Steves, and Charles Mandigo, former special agent in charge of the FBI’s Seattle Division.
But both candidates for Governor, Republican Rob McKenna and Democrat Jay Inslee, say they will vote against it. The initiative would not strike down federal laws against marijuana possession.
The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
By dint of a 2003 initiative, Seattle made marijuana possession its lowest law enforcement priority.
But a pot bust can have such nasty consequences as a student losing financial aid. In one case, a seasonal national park ranger — seeking a Park Service career — was denied admission into a law enforcement course after acknowledging that he took a toke on a marijuana cigarette months earlier at a party.
The issue of racial disparity has loomed large across the country in New York City.
Following a controversial “stop & frisk” policy, NYC police made more than 50,000 low-level marijuana possession arrests last year: 11,700 were of teenagers between 16 and 19. Thirty percent of those busted had no prior record.
An estimated 80 percent of those stopped, frisked and busted were African-American or Latino.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are trying to get the penalty lowered from a misdemeanor to a simple violation.
didn't include the pic & bit on pat robertson...it's in the link :wtf:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepoliti ... -alliance/
put that in your pipe and smoke it!
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angels share laughter
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Weird article -- doesn't seem like the title of the article goes with the body at all. Am I missing something? Didn't really even attempt to explain why Children's Alliance would support the legislation nor the title implicit point that criminalizing pot somehow impacts kids negatively. Other than the 16-19 year old statistic, but those are hardly "children" in any sense of the word I know.prism wrote:Strange Bedfellows — Politics News
Children’s Alliance: Pot enforcement bad for kids
Enforcement of marijuana laws is not healthy for children and parents and society, according to the statewide Children’s Alliance, which is endorsing Initiative 502, the legalization measure on Washington’s November ballot.
“Current marijuana enforcement is failing children and families: Decades of study have proven the unequal treatment of communities of color in the criminal justice system, especially in enforcement of marijuana policy, and Washington’s kids pay a terrible price for these persistent racial disparities,” said Paola Maranan, executive director of the Children’s Alliance.
I-502 would legalize, tax and regulate the growing of marijuana and its sale to adults. Colorado will vote on a similar measure this fall.
The initiative has drawn an unusual array of supporters: Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, former U.S. Attorney John McKay, Bellingham Mayor Kelly Linville, travel guru Rick Steves, and Charles Mandigo, former special agent in charge of the FBI’s Seattle Division.
But both candidates for Governor, Republican Rob McKenna and Democrat Jay Inslee, say they will vote against it. The initiative would not strike down federal laws against marijuana possession.
The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
By dint of a 2003 initiative, Seattle made marijuana possession its lowest law enforcement priority.
But a pot bust can have such nasty consequences as a student losing financial aid. In one case, a seasonal national park ranger — seeking a Park Service career — was denied admission into a law enforcement course after acknowledging that he took a toke on a marijuana cigarette months earlier at a party.
The issue of racial disparity has loomed large across the country in New York City.
Following a controversial “stop & frisk” policy, NYC police made more than 50,000 low-level marijuana possession arrests last year: 11,700 were of teenagers between 16 and 19. Thirty percent of those busted had no prior record.
An estimated 80 percent of those stopped, frisked and busted were African-American or Latino.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are trying to get the penalty lowered from a misdemeanor to a simple violation.
didn't include the pic & bit on pat robertson...it's in the link :wtf:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepoliti ... -alliance/
put that in your pipe and smoke it!0 -
MotoDC wrote:
Weird article -- doesn't seem like the title of the article goes with the body at all. Am I missing something? Didn't really even attempt to explain why Children's Alliance would support the legislation nor the title implicit point that criminalizing pot somehow impacts kids negatively. Other than the 16-19 year old statistic, but those are hardly "children" in any sense of the word I know.prism wrote:Strange Bedfellows — Politics News
Children’s Alliance: Pot enforcement bad for kids
Enforcement of marijuana laws is not healthy for children and parents and society, according to the statewide Children’s Alliance, which is endorsing Initiative 502, the legalization measure on Washington’s November ballot.
“Current marijuana enforcement is failing children and families: Decades of study have proven the unequal treatment of communities of color in the criminal justice system, especially in enforcement of marijuana policy, and Washington’s kids pay a terrible price for these persistent racial disparities,” said Paola Maranan, executive director of the Children’s Alliance.
I-502 would legalize, tax and regulate the growing of marijuana and its sale to adults. Colorado will vote on a similar measure this fall.
The initiative has drawn an unusual array of supporters: Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, former U.S. Attorney John McKay, Bellingham Mayor Kelly Linville, travel guru Rick Steves, and Charles Mandigo, former special agent in charge of the FBI’s Seattle Division.
But both candidates for Governor, Republican Rob McKenna and Democrat Jay Inslee, say they will vote against it. The initiative would not strike down federal laws against marijuana possession.
The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
By dint of a 2003 initiative, Seattle made marijuana possession its lowest law enforcement priority.
But a pot bust can have such nasty consequences as a student losing financial aid. In one case, a seasonal national park ranger — seeking a Park Service career — was denied admission into a law enforcement course after acknowledging that he took a toke on a marijuana cigarette months earlier at a party.
The issue of racial disparity has loomed large across the country in New York City.
Following a controversial “stop & frisk” policy, NYC police made more than 50,000 low-level marijuana possession arrests last year: 11,700 were of teenagers between 16 and 19. Thirty percent of those busted had no prior record.
An estimated 80 percent of those stopped, frisked and busted were African-American or Latino.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are trying to get the penalty lowered from a misdemeanor to a simple violation.
didn't include the pic & bit on pat robertson...it's in the link :wtf:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepoliti ... -alliance/
put that in your pipe and smoke it!
i can see where other than older kids losing students loans the article didn't go into much detail. although they didn't spell things out, it seems Children's alliance reasoning is based on basic common sense
according to the article a person busted for pot spends an average of 4 days in jail. it's a fact that a parent being jailed is tough on kids of any age. also many parents (if not most) will end up getting fired and be out of a job. so they can just get another one to put food on the table, right? (rotten economy & job market aside) that's not gonna be so easy...
considering a parent then has a criminal record (even just for possesion.) future employers can deny hiring them, landlords can deny renting to them, parents can be denied home or car loans, that parent will be denied a passport (don't know if by default it applies to their kid) so no family traveling outside the us. those are just a few examples...there's probably more
looking at the big picture it's fairly obvious enforcing pot laws has a negative impact on children, families & soceity
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angels share laughter
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Marijuana certainly isn't worse if this turns out to be true...
Marijuana And Cancer: Scientists Find Cannabis Compound Stops Metastasis In Aggressive CancersA pair of scientists at California Pacific Medical Center in San Francisco has found that a compound derived from marijuana could stop metastasis in many kinds of aggressive cancer, potentially altering the fatality of the disease forever.
"It took us about 20 years of research to figure this out, but we are very excited," said Pierre Desprez, one of the scientists behind the discovery, to The Huffington Post. "We want to get started with trials as soon as possible."
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
What's fairly obvious is that selling shit that's against the law to sell has a negative impact on the people selling and any offspring they've chosen to have. Whether there are enough people with kids selling pot and going to jail in order to justify the Children's Alliance dedicating time and resources to supporting it is quite less so. Seems there are a number of other things that are probably affecting children in much more notable ways that might deserve their time. My gut instinct is to wonder about what Children's Alliance is really all about.prism wrote:i can see where other than older kids losing students loans the article didn't go into much detail. although they didn't spell things out, it seems Children's alliance reasoning is based on basic common sense
according to the article a person busted for pot spends an average of 4 days in jail. it's a fact that a parent being jailed is tough on kids of any age. also many parents (if not most) will end up getting fired and be out of a job. so they can just get another one to put food on the table, right? (rotten economy & job market aside) that's not gonna be so easy...
considering a parent then has a criminal record (even just for possesion.) future employers can deny hiring them, landlords can deny renting to them, parents can be denied home or car loans, that parent will be denied a passport (don't know if by default it applies to their kid) so no family traveling outside the us. those are just a few examples...there's probably more
looking at the big picture it's fairly obvious enforcing pot laws has a negative impact on children, families & soceity
Honestly I could give a shit one way or another about legalizing pot. But it's pretty fucking hilarious that you think a "Children's Alliance" supporting the legalization of pot is "common sense".0 -
MotoDC wrote:What's fairly obvious is that selling shit that's against the law to sell has a negative impact on the people selling and any offspring they've chosen to have. Whether there are enough people with kids selling pot and going to jail in order to justify the Children's Alliance dedicating time and resources to supporting it is quite less so. Seems there are a number of other things that are probably affecting children in much more notable ways that might deserve their time. My gut instinct is to wonder about what Children's Alliance is really all about.
Honestly I could give a shit one way or another about legalizing pot. But it's pretty fucking hilarious that you think a "Children's Alliance" supporting the legalization of pot is "common sense".
you hit upon the biggest reason for the children's alliance to support legalizing pot, once it's legal then these agencies can concentrate their full efforts on helping children & families with serious issues. they'll no longer have to use up resources to help children that are displaced simply because a parent was busted for possession.
according to the article: The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
as for selling(which you brought up) how many ppl (parent or not) will still be selling once it's available in stores?
the children's alliance is a Seattle based advocacy group with members from more than 100 social-service agencies. it's doubtful they used up much in the way of resources by issuing a press release saying they support a state ballot measure. it also makes sense they point out the racial disparities in the enforcement of pot laws because it's factual. there's no reason for you to question their integrity.
for someone that doesn't care one way or the other if it's legalized...why are you arguing about it?
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angels share laughter
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btw, for whatever polls are worth.....the latest has Washington voters in favor of the initiative by 57%. the legalization initiatives in Colorado and Oregon are much closer*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
angels share laughter
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I believe that if pot was legized, quality ensured, and fairly priced in north america, all three countries would be MUCH better off than they are now. It's total madness that the governments continue to fight it, so much so that it makes me think there is something fishy going on, although I could be underestimating the incompetence of politicians.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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oh it's fishy alright...I began a dead-end thread a couple weeks ago that touched on several of the issues....I think most of it has to do with political inertia....it's like we need a full-stop and to start over with the war on (some) drugs. That inertia, involving all of the lobby interests wanting to maintain the status quo, using their influence on politicians, becomes a de facto conspiracy....not a set policy, but a wilful, mass neglect of the wishes of the people...as long as the people aren't making it a major election issue, there isn't much chance of changing anything.PJ_Soul wrote:I believe that if pot was legized, quality ensured, and fairly priced in north america, all three countries would be MUCH better off than they are now. It's total madness that the governments continue to fight it, so much so that it makes me think there is something fishy going on, although I could be underestimating the incompetence of politicians.
The fact that the feds in the US handed over their patent on MJ (yes, they have a patent on MJ!) to a private pharma company may be the first step...but headed in the wrong direction (toward private control of a plant species' dna)....
The pharma companies have a lot to lose from legalization....alcohol and tobacco think they do too....the for-profit prison system is a big opponent, as well as police associations (tho they like to play both sides - retired cops in particular, support legalization).....then there's the religious right - the fear mongers...all of these groups either need to be told to f off, or weened off the drug war teat somehow, in order to move on...0 -
Right, pot laws impact kids. Never said they didn't. My questions are 1) whether they impact kids enough to justify a Children's Alliance making a point of supporting legalization; and 2) whether a radical revision to those laws would actually benefit children.prism wrote:you hit upon the biggest reason for the children's alliance to support legalizing pot, once it's legal then these agencies can concentrate their full efforts on helping children & families with serious issues. they'll no longer have to use up resources to help children that are displaced simply because a parent was busted for possession.
Also, if this is truly the biggest reason, then why do you say below that resources are not a concern for the CA when it comes to legalization efforts?
I appreciate the info, I'll have to do some research to see how this stacks up against the myriad other child-related issues out there. Also, I wonder how many of those arrests and convictions are of parents of minors? i.e., how much of that statistic really serves to justify CA's involvement?according to the article: The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
This argument applies to everything that's ever been illegal, ever. The real question is what has the bigger negative impact -- legalizing a drug or prosecuting those selling it while it's illegal?as for selling(which you brought up) how many ppl (parent or not) will still be selling once it's available in stores?
I've already established why I think it's reasonable to question their motive on this topic. It just reeks of the almost cliched argument of "but what about the kiiiids" when it's questionable how much impact the topic in question (whatever it happens to be) impacts kids.the children's alliance is a Seattle based advocacy group with members from more than 100 social-service agencies. it's doubtful they used up much in the way of resources by issuing a press release saying they support a state ballot measure. it also makes sense they point out the racial disparities in the enforcement of pot laws because it's factual. there's no reason for you to question their integrity.
Good question. For starters, I chose my words poorly. What I meant was that I'm undecided as to what's better for our society at this point. It may seem that my tendency is toward maintaining pot's current status in our legal system, which may be true, but only in part. For example, I doubt it's the boogeyman that some paint it to be and I question whether mandatory jail time is the right way to penalize it. On the other hand, I do tend to prefer status quo unless and until it is clearly and unequivocally established that such a radical change is in the best interest of society at large.for someone that doesn't care one way or the other if it's legalized...why are you arguing about it?0 -
pandora wrote:really since when?
I have always, my entire life supported the legalization of pot...
I thought by now at age 56 it would be but
it was not until this past year or so,
when I hear some wanting the legalization of all drugs including very addicting
and highly dangerous drugs that I have rethought
my decision.
If that is the outcome I will say lets keep it medicinal under the guidance
of a doctor.
Here we are again, stifling freedom of choice.0 -
Yes of course when we speak of deadly drugs, that is common sense.peacefrompaul wrote:pandora wrote:really since when?
I have always, my entire life supported the legalization of pot...
I thought by now at age 56 it would be but
it was not until this past year or so,
when I hear some wanting the legalization of all drugs including very addicting
and highly dangerous drugs that I have rethought
my decision.
If that is the outcome I will say lets keep it medicinal under the guidance
of a doctor.
Here we are again, stifling freedom of choice.
Some more good info... unbiased
http://norml.org/component/zoo/category ... g-the-risk0 -
it's 420, so put down the bottle and smoke some herb for god sake0
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By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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