No I think it was clear and I took it the intended way I think...
that no one is going to die coming down from a
pot addiction, true.
But I worry about the anxiety effect.
the reason why the person is addicted to begin with, in many cases,
self medicating.
This is a common way for people to treat anxiety issues with both pot and alcohol.
Anxiety attacks are some scary shit that takes people to the emergency room and
can happen in dangerous situations like while driving or caring for children.
Coming down may increase this as was mentioned in the article.
I have seen it in people, the fear, the pending doom, increased aggression,hyperventilation.
Anti-anxiety meds might keep those coming out of a pot addiction safer
and more comfortable.
I posted the article because too many think pot is harmless and yes of all the drugs out there
perhaps that is true,
but like you say some negative effects, I think, life changing effects.
I think if a person can choose, choose not to do anything and teach your
children to have fun without being fucked up, it will pay off in the end.
Ok good - I realized when I said "I don't worry about them" - that may not have been clear. I meant someone can stop marijuana use in an outpatient setting and I don't have to be concerned about their physical safety, whereas with alcohol they may very well need to be medically monitored. Alcohol is much more dangerous in that regard, but that's not to stay people don't struggle with stopping marijuana usage.
People can definitely experience a lot of psychological discomfort and anxiety, as they can with caffeine, sugar, etc. My concern about using an anti-anxiety med is that benzos are more dangerous than the marijuana itself. Those medications can be really addictive and much more dangerous to detox from (a lot of treatment centers won't even take clients with benzo addictions for that reason). If someone is struggling with anxiety while trying to stop use, I'd rather try some other anxiety coping techniques.
Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature.
Why yes, sir...that IS true And, nothing wrong with one getting fucked up from time to time too. If I, in the privacy of our home, want to smoke a huge fatty, turn up some music and chill...whose business is that? And I'd say the same for libations.
Anyway, I'm sometimes of a mind similar to Bill Hicks; to paraphrase - "pot shouldn't just be legal, it should be mandatory."
And also to paraphrase my new herione from The Big C - "life is so precious, and it's too fucking short, so don't delay the happy."
Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature.
This very true and is moderation.
But its funny that little buzz that little mellow the straight eye sees
(straight as in not under the influence)
The worry for me is what children see and learn,
they are really straight.
Those little eyes take in everything from tiny on and mimic.
If one thinks their child does not know because one hides alcohol and pot use,
they are wrong, the child knows
and is much more likely to try both or to use both as an adult.
Is that bad?
Maybe not unless they get busted under age or have an addiction problem as an adult.
Both can totally ruin their young lives and the parents in turn.
talk about guilt...
I don't see drug or alcohol use around children as being different from abusing anything- gambling, too much TV, eating too much junk food etc. I grew up in a household with moderate alcohol consumption, occasional junk food binges and more TV in a week than I watch in a year today. Those had no negative affect on me. I don't think a kid would notice the use or abuse of alcohol or drugs so much as the behaviors that might stem from it. I think it's the behaviors that kids focus on. And I think it's possible for a parent to get good and bombed now and then and not have that be a negative affect on the kids as long as the parent has it together enough not to do anything appropriate while blitzed. I'm not advocating getting wasted around kids- it's inappropriate behaviors I would condemn or be critical of.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature.
Why yes, sir...that IS true And, nothing wrong with one getting fucked up from time to time too. If I, in the privacy of our home, want to smoke a huge fatty, turn up some music and chill...whose business is that? And I'd say the same for libations.
Anyway, I'm sometimes of a mind similar to Bill Hicks; to paraphrase - "pot shouldn't just be legal, it should be mandatory."
And also to paraphrase my new herione from The Big C - "life is so precious, and it's too fucking short, so don't delay the happy."
As a good friend once said, "Everything in moderation... including moderation".
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I don't think a kid would notice the use or abuse of alcohol or drugs so much as the behaviors that might stem from it. I think it's the behaviors that kids focus on. .
Completely agree.
To the question of which is worse? Depends on the person, I guess. But alcohol is extremely addictive. One doesn't have to be the stereotypical alcoholic either. The person needing that whiskey (or tipple of choice) every day to wind down/go to sleep, is addicted. Dependence has been created and so easily as alcohol is socially accepted. I bet most of us will know a good number of people like this too. Guess pot is sort of socially accepted but that would be more in the US and within a certain society than in other western countries.
Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature.
This very true and is moderation.
But its funny that little buzz that little mellow the straight eye sees
(straight as in not under the influence)
The worry for me is what children see and learn,
they are really straight.
Those little eyes take in everything from tiny on and mimic.
If one thinks their child does not know because one hides alcohol and pot use,
they are wrong, the child knows
and is much more likely to try both or to use both as an adult.
Is that bad?
Maybe not unless they get busted under age or have an addiction problem as an adult.
Both can totally ruin their young lives and the parents in turn.
talk about guilt...
I don't see drug or alcohol use around children as being different from abusing anything- gambling, too much TV, eating too much junk food etc. I grew up in a household with moderate alcohol consumption, occasional junk food binges and more TV in a week than I watch in a year today. Those had no negative affect on me. I don't think a kid would notice the use or abuse of alcohol or drugs so much as the behaviors that might stem from it. I think it's the behaviors that kids focus on. And I think it's possible for a parent to get good and bombed now and then and not have that be a negative affect on the kids as long as the parent has it together enough not to do anything appropriate while blitzed. I'm not advocating getting wasted around kids- it's inappropriate behaviors I would condemn or be critical of.
No it is not the behaviors it's the absolute loss of a coherent brain, the brain they trust,
the brain the child knows and depends on, learns from. The loss of that connection, relationship,
the meeting of the minds between parent and child. The loss of trust and faith if even for
that time of being blitzed as you call it. This is not pretty for a child. Do they adapt of course,
but the risks are immense, you are molding your child and your lifetime love.
Do children a favor learn to have fun without drugs and alcohol. Mixing the two
can really confuse and cause future bad behavior.
lt.
No it is not the behaviors it's the absolute loss of a coherent brain, the brain they trust,
the brain the child knows and depends on, learns from. The loss of that connection, relationship,
the meeting of the minds between parent and child. The loss of trust and faith if even for
that time of being blitzed as you call it. This is not pretty for a child. Do they adapt of course,
but the risks are immense, you are molding your child and your lifetime love.
Do children a favor learn to have fun without drugs and alcohol. Mixing the two
can really confuse and cause future bad behavior.
I guess it's knowing ones' limits. Some people have a single drink or a small toke and become total idiots or belligerent or whatever and other have a half dozen drinks and smoke a whole fatty and be quite pleasant and remain responsible. Like I said, my parents liked to drink a bit now and then and I think those were actually times they were doing me a favor because it lightened them up a bit. It really is about behaviors. At least that's my experience.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
No I think it was clear and I took it the intended way I think...
that no one is going to die coming down from a
pot addiction, true.
But I worry about the anxiety effect.
the reason why the person is addicted to begin with, in many cases,
self medicating.
This is a common way for people to treat anxiety issues with both pot and alcohol.
Anxiety attacks are some scary shit that takes people to the emergency room and
can happen in dangerous situations like while driving or caring for children.
Coming down may increase this as was mentioned in the article.
I have seen it in people, the fear, the pending doom, increased aggression,hyperventilation.
Anti-anxiety meds might keep those coming out of a pot addiction safer
and more comfortable.
I posted the article because too many think pot is harmless and yes of all the drugs out there
perhaps that is true,
but like you say some negative effects, I think, life changing effects.
I think if a person can choose, choose not to do anything and teach your
children to have fun without being fucked up, it will pay off in the end.
Ok good - I realized when I said "I don't worry about them" - that may not have been clear. I meant someone can stop marijuana use in an outpatient setting and I don't have to be concerned about their physical safety, whereas with alcohol they may very well need to be medically monitored. Alcohol is much more dangerous in that regard, but that's not to stay people don't struggle with stopping marijuana usage.
People can definitely experience a lot of psychological discomfort and anxiety, as they can with caffeine, sugar, etc. My concern about using an anti-anxiety med is that benzos are more dangerous than the marijuana itself. Those medications can be really addictive and much more dangerous to detox from (a lot of treatment centers won't even take clients with benzo addictions for that reason). If someone is struggling with anxiety while trying to stop use, I'd rather try some other anxiety coping techniques.
maybe a good ole placebo?
I think sometimes that could do the trick!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Here is what I found: Prolonged and consistent use of alcohol affects nearly every organ of the body, especially the gastrointestinal track, cardiovascular system, and central nervous system. Alcohol is a contributing factor in gastritis, ulcers, liver cirrhosis, pancreatitis, hypertension, muscle weakness, and memory impairment. Other symptoms include: Tremor, unsteady gait, insomnia, and erectile dysfunction. In pregnant women, drinking can lead to abortion or fetal alcohol syndrome and birth defects. Drinkers fall more and cause accidents. Alcohol is related to 55% of fatal auto accidents. Half of all murderers and their victims are believed to involve alcohol. Furthermore, alcohol leads to disinhibition of feelings of sadness and aggression which can lead to suicide.
Cannabis, on the other hand, increases appetite, dry mouth, tachycardia, euphoria, sedation and a slowed sense of time. It can also cause a chronic cough or throat problems due to smoking.
OK. These are the symptoms and consequences of cannabis and alcohol according to the DSM-IV, the bible of the psychiatric community. Now, that you have read them yourself, what do you think?
Alcohol is socially acceptable and legal for those over 18 or 21, people drink or over indulge out in the public in places like restaurants and bars. This means at some point they'll try to go home, even with all the admonitions against it, some of these less-than-sober folks will get behind the wheel of a car and put non-consenting, innocent others at risk because of their behavior.
Since marijuana is illegal and not as widely accepted, people tend to indulge at home. Marijuana also tends to kill one's motivation to go do anything other than raid the kitchen. It helped me to fall asleep, I at times have trouble falling asleep. On some level, if you're high, I think you're a little more aware of it (and aware you're doing something inherently illegal), so you're more likely to keep a low profile.
Not saying people don't drive when they're stoned...just that I've observed it to be less likely for them to choose to drive when they're stoned than when they're drunk. Besides most who do drive stoned drive way damn TOO slow ESPECIALLY down here in Florida. I think this because at times I hear myself saying *Are you serious, you MUST be high!*
One more thing I've never heard of someone OD smokingweed but one can OD on drinking alcohol, right.
What do you all think, I don't believe it's weed but some may think it may lead to mental illness.
Peace
Really where in the world would you get an idea like that?
Of course that would not be weed but much harder drugs...
although I have known people with paranoia tendencies to really freak out on pot
and those with thyroid problems actually have psychotic type episodes
that need medical attention. Not everyone can smoke pot without physical side effects
or even enjoy it due to paranoia.
My idea is the bolded red there can pretty much cover most any substance and the effects
different on the individual body of course. Keep in mind moderation is the best policy...
common sense.
I got it from my energetic redheaded fiancee who posed this question to me. We argued about the mental illness thought that marijuana by itself could lead to some form of mental illness, I said it could not. We also spoke about whether or not marijuana could be addictive, she said yes, I said no. I looked at that scenario as to how much experience one had in smoking...she's far more experienced than I am. I can easily stop or go years without smoking and wouldn't miss it one bit.
Moderation is key in every thing people do and use...although even in moderately drinking and driving can lead to very dangerous situations while driving.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
did anyone notice the source of this link? now what would drug rehab centers and the national institute on drug abuse have to gain by promoting scare tactics that convince ppl that pot is addictive and dangerous? hmmmm...might it be hundreds of millions (probably more) in profits?
the conclusions are based on very small studies, which leaves one wondering which more positive/less negative studies were left out. i'm not saying it doesn't bring up a few points...though it mostly seems like a more clinical version of reefer madness :P
like others have already said, pot as with anything used in excess can potentially cause harm...it's all about moderation
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lt.
No it is not the behaviors it's the absolute loss of a coherent brain, the brain they trust,
the brain the child knows and depends on, learns from. The loss of that connection, relationship,
the meeting of the minds between parent and child. The loss of trust and faith if even for
that time of being blitzed as you call it. This is not pretty for a child. Do they adapt of course,
but the risks are immense, you are molding your child and your lifetime love.
Do children a favor learn to have fun without drugs and alcohol. Mixing the two
can really confuse and cause future bad behavior.
I guess it's knowing ones' limits. Some people have a single drink or a small toke and become total idiots or belligerent or whatever and other have a half dozen drinks and smoke a whole fatty and be quite pleasant and remain responsible. Like I said, my parents liked to drink a bit now and then and I think those were actually times they were doing me a favor because it lightened them up a bit. It really is about behaviors. At least that's my experience.
it's not about being a jerk it's about being in a different state...
an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
and yes my home too full of party times, it's where we learn how to have fun.
Also, if often enough, how we learn to be an alcoholic or pot head....
or go on to the use of harder drugs.
All I am saying is don't teach children this s is how to have fun because it can set
them up for trouble.
did anyone notice the source of this link? now what would drug rehab centers and the national institute on drug abuse have to gain by promoting scare tactics that convince ppl that pot is addictive and dangerous? hmmmm...might it be hundreds of millions (probably more) in profits?
the conclusions are based on very small studies, which leaves one wondering which more positive/less negative studies were left out. i'm not saying it doesn't bring up a few points...though it mostly seems like a more clinical version of reefer madness :P
like others have already said, pot as with anything used in excess can potentially cause harm...it's all about moderation
lt.
No it is not the behaviors it's the absolute loss of a coherent brain, the brain they trust,
the brain the child knows and depends on, learns from. The loss of that connection, relationship,
the meeting of the minds between parent and child. The loss of trust and faith if even for
that time of being blitzed as you call it. This is not pretty for a child. Do they adapt of course,
but the risks are immense, you are molding your child and your lifetime love.
Do children a favor learn to have fun without drugs and alcohol. Mixing the two
can really confuse and cause future bad behavior.
I guess it's knowing ones' limits. Some people have a single drink or a small toke and become total idiots or belligerent or whatever and other have a half dozen drinks and smoke a whole fatty and be quite pleasant and remain responsible. Like I said, my parents liked to drink a bit now and then and I think those were actually times they were doing me a favor because it lightened them up a bit. It really is about behaviors. At least that's my experience.
it's not about being a jerk it's about being in a different state...
an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
and yes my home too full of party times, it's where we learn how to have fun.
Also, if often enough, how we learn to be an alcoholic or pot head....
or go on to the use of harder drugs.
All I am saying is don't teach children this s is how to have fun because it can set
them up for trouble.
I know someone who was video taped (unbeknownst to him at the time) while quite drunk. Seeing the video later on led him to making some changes in his life. That was a good thing. That would not happen to me. The only problem I would have in being video taped in any state would be that I am self-conscious about being video taped. I never let myself get out of control, even in a different state of mind. I don't have a problem with being in a different state of mind if that's my intention. And no one around me does either. I know my limits and I'm a responsible person. If someone can't be responsible and know their limits, that might be a problem.
I find it interesting that you say you have parties where you learn to have fun and that through your parties at home you learned to be an alcoholic or pot head and have gone on to harder drugs. I didn't know that about you. That seems incongruous to other things you have said in other posts. Easy does it, Pandora.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
it's not about being a jerk it's about being in a different state...
an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
and yes my home too full of party times, it's where we learn how to have fun.
Also, if often enough, how we learn to be an alcoholic or pot head....
or go on to the use of harder drugs.
All I am saying is don't teach children this s is how to have fun because it can set
them up for trouble.
Why do you have to turn every conversation about drugs into a conversation about parenting? I realize they are not mutually exclusive topics, but the topic of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with children or parenting.
While I shouldn't play along with your derailment, I will say....I agree that kids are sponges and pick up on pretty much everything a parent does....but I don't think the effects of marijuana, on an experienced user, are severe enough for a kid to pick up on. Unless the parent is actually smoking in front of the kid, chances are the kid will never know the difference. Maybe once they're taught symptoms and know to look for glossy/red eyes....but until then...what exactly do you think they're going to pick up on?
A lot of people really overstate the effects of MJ. It's not like these people become instant couch potatoes or lose their ability to parent as soon as they inhale. In fact, I would think that in some circumstances, it would be beneficial to the parent/child interaction....a relaxed parent with a slight buzz would be preferable to a bone-sober parent with blood pressure thru the roof....of course, this isn't the ideal coping method for stressed parents...but if it does the trick and doesn't harm or endanger the child, nor the relationship, then on occasion....whats the big deal?
did anyone notice the source of this link? now what would drug rehab centers and the national institute on drug abuse have to gain by promoting scare tactics that convince ppl that pot is addictive and dangerous? hmmmm...might it be hundreds of millions (probably more) in profits?
the conclusions are based on very small studies, which leaves one wondering which more positive/less negative studies were left out. i'm not saying it doesn't bring up a few points...though it mostly seems like a more clinical version of reefer madness :P
like others have already said, pot as with anything used in excess can potentially cause harm...it's all about moderation
Ya, I noticed quite a number of statements that I've seen contradicted in research papers....I will take some time later to mention a few...(don't like googling my references on this topic from work )...I take issue with some of the statements about absenteeism, impairment levels (esp in relation to driving and accidents), side effects, and addiction.
One example.....
Studies show that approximately 6 to 11 percent of fatal accident victims test positive for THC. In many of these cases, alcohol is detected as well.36, 37, 38
In reviewing the footnotes, I'm seeing things like: "36 - Mason, A.P., and McBay, A.J. Ethanol, marijuana, and other drug use in 600 drivers killed in single-vehicle crashes in North Carolina, 1978Ð1981. J Forensic Sci 29(4):987-1026, 1984."
.....a 30 year old sample of 600 fatalities...smells like a cherry-picked study with loosely interpreted figures, to me. 6-11% of drivers in fatal crashes test positive for MJ, huh?....soooo for starters.....their figure is +/- 85%? 6 to 11%? That's quite the range......and it's also pretty damn close to the percentage of people who admit to regular use...Take into account that it can take weeks to eliminate THC from the system, and it's obviously not an indication of driving impairment, only that THC is in the system. It also doesn't define whether they were at fault in the accident....It even mentions that alcohol is present in some of those cases. So....I'm not sure how they can make their stats sound like a definitive correlation between driving high and fatalities, when there is clearly a lot of grey in those numbers.
To answer this question, it's pretty simple:
Q: Which Is WORSE For Your Health: Marijuana Or Alcohol?
A: Think about a stadium full of Oakland Raiders Fans on drunk on Alcohol... versus a stadium full of Oakland Raiders Fans high on pot. I get the part where neither one of them is good for your health, but ask yourself, "Which on is worse?"
There... is your answer.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
it's not about being a jerk it's about being in a different state...
an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
and yes my home too full of party times, it's where we learn how to have fun.
Also, if often enough, how we learn to be an alcoholic or pot head....
or go on to the use of harder drugs.
All I am saying is don't teach children this s is how to have fun because it can set
them up for trouble.
Why do you have to turn every conversation about drugs into a conversation about parenting? I realize they are not mutually exclusive topics, but the topic of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with children or parenting.
While I shouldn't play along with your derailment, I will say....I agree that kids are sponges and pick up on pretty much everything a parent does....but I don't think the effects of marijuana, on an experienced user, are severe enough for a kid to pick up on. Unless the parent is actually smoking in front of the kid, chances are the kid will never know the difference. Maybe once they're taught symptoms and know to look for glossy/red eyes....but until then...what exactly do you think they're going to pick up on?
A lot of people really overstate the effects of MJ. It's not like these people become instant couch potatoes or lose their ability to parent as soon as they inhale. In fact, I would think that in some circumstances, it would be beneficial to the parent/child interaction....a relaxed parent with a slight buzz would be preferable to a bone-sober parent with blood pressure thru the roof....of course, this isn't the ideal coping method for stressed parents...but if it does the trick and doesn't harm or endanger the child, nor the relationship, then on occasion....whats the big deal?
Keep the delusion if you like.
The problem is it does both ...
harm the relationship and endangers the child but I have a feeling you won't be able to see that
so no need to discuss.
Another posted mentioned about a little buzz a little mellow I said that was fine except when children are involved, the straight eyes, this how it came up and yes they are anything but exclusive topics.
it's not about being a jerk it's about being in a different state...
an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
and yes my home too full of party times, it's where we learn how to have fun.
Also, if often enough, how we learn to be an alcoholic or pot head....
or go on to the use of harder drugs.
All I am saying is don't teach children this s is how to have fun because it can set
them up for trouble.
Why do you have to turn every conversation about drugs into a conversation about parenting? I realize they are not mutually exclusive topics, but the topic of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with children or parenting.
While I shouldn't play along with your derailment, I will say....I agree that kids are sponges and pick up on pretty much everything a parent does....but I don't think the effects of marijuana, on an experienced user, are severe enough for a kid to pick up on. Unless the parent is actually smoking in front of the kid, chances are the kid will never know the difference. Maybe once they're taught symptoms and know to look for glossy/red eyes....but until then...what exactly do you think they're going to pick up on?
A lot of people really overstate the effects of MJ. It's not like these people become instant couch potatoes or lose their ability to parent as soon as they inhale. In fact, I would think that in some circumstances, it would be beneficial to the parent/child interaction....a relaxed parent with a slight buzz would be preferable to a bone-sober parent with blood pressure thru the roof....of course, this isn't the ideal coping method for stressed parents...but if it does the trick and doesn't harm or endanger the child, nor the relationship, then on occasion....whats the big deal?
Pardon my interuption, you dont "learn " to become an alcoholic. you may drink to excess to a point that the body/mind are dependent or in my case I was born an alcoholic. there was/is no learning to become one.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
They're BOTH bad for your health and everyone should abstain.
edit-who's healthier? The person that drinks one glass of red wine a night or the person that smokes a joint every night?
I'm thinking it's the wine drinker...
I read somewhere that people who drink 1 to 3 drinks a night, preferably red wine, live longer than those who don't drink at all,
BUT, those who drank 4+ drinks a day had much shorter lives.. And the numbers got exponentially worse each drink above the moderation limit.
well.... a 'glass' of wine should technically be 5 ounces or 2/3 of a cup. one bottle of wine = 5 1/2 servings. If you actually sit down and measure it, it's shocking. Most people drink much more.
I'm still going to hold firm in my belief that the person that drinks one serving of wine per night is healthier than the person that smokes the average sized joint per night.
this argument has come up a million times over the years...
Haha, one bottle of wine is about 4 servings if I'm pouring, though I'm aware the pours are on the heavy side. Less trips back to the kitchen during dinner that way!
it's not about being a jerk it's about being in a different state...
an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
and yes my home too full of party times, it's where we learn how to have fun.
Also, if often enough, how we learn to be an alcoholic or pot head....
or go on to the use of harder drugs.
All I am saying is don't teach children this s is how to have fun because it can set
them up for trouble.
I know someone who was video taped (unbeknownst to him at the time) while quite drunk. Seeing the video later on led him to making some changes in his life. That was a good thing. That would not happen to me. The only problem I would have in being video taped in any state would be that I am self-conscious about being video taped. I never let myself get out of control, even in a different state of mind. I don't have a problem with being in a different state of mind if that's my intention. And no one around me does either. I know my limits and I'm a responsible person. If someone can't be responsible and know their limits, that might be a problem.
I find it interesting that you say you have parties where you learn to have fun and that through your parties at home you learned to be an alcoholic or pot head and have gone on to harder drugs. I didn't know that about you. That seems incongruous to other things you have said in other posts. Easy does it, Pandora.
You mentioned your parents and home life as a kid..
I mentioned mine saying there was also partying....drinking.
I never said I went on to be any of those things I said a child witnessing and growing
up in a environment like that learns to have fun by by using substances
and could very possibly take that into teenage and adulthood.
This could result in future trouble.
My point of course, teach your kids to have fun without
a substance involved and refrain from including them in the times one gets bombed or blitzed
as you put it.
To the straight eye of a small child, a parent never looks responsible when drunk or high,
they look different, very different. What's wrong with Daddy?
In my opinion when it comes to a parent neither is better or worse, neither should be used as a part of parenting....
if this was the case future generation might have a fighting chance against addiction.
The problem is it does both ...
harm the relationship and endangers the child but I have a feeling you won't be able to see that
so no need to discuss.
Another posted mentioned about a little buzz a little mellow I said that was fine except when children are involved, the straight eyes, this how it came up and yes they are anything but exclusive topics.
We will agree to disagree once again.
sooo...."we'll agree to disagree again...but first let me call you delusional". fair enough :roll:
Can you explain the red paragraph above a little more clearly?
I don't understand how you can say 'a little buzz a little mellow' is fine...but then say that 'straight eyes' will pick up on the difference, to their detriment? Is that not contradictory? edit: sorry, read that again...now I see the 'except'....
What's wrong with daddy? From MJ? I don't think so.....
Anyway, good to see you don't have me blocked anymore. I so enjoy our conversations :P
Pardon my interuption, you dont "learn " to become an alcoholic. you may drink to excess to a point that the body/mind are dependent or in my case I was born an alcoholic. there was/is no learning to become one.
Good point.
I'm no expert, but I would say that a parents' examples can affect the way a person learns about intoxicants.....but a bigger factor is genetics....some people are definitely born with more of a predisposition to addiction than others.
I guess it's knowing ones' limits. Some people have a single drink or a small toke and become total idiots or belligerent or whatever and other have a half dozen drinks and smoke a whole fatty and be quite pleasant and remain responsible. Like I said, my parents liked to drink a bit now and then and I think those were actually times they were doing me a favor because it lightened them up a bit. It really is about behaviors. At least that's my experience.
So true. It's all about practice, baby! I can drink a reasonable amount and generally handle myself admirably, but if I so much as look cross-eyed at a bong I turn into a mouth-breathing maroon. Halfway through sentences I forget what they were about, can't even look at a friend without giggling, etc. You can guess which drug I have more experience with.
I can tell just from personal experience that alcohol is about a million times worse for my health than pot. Plus, I've never heard of anyone having to go to the hospital or dying because they smoked too much pot. That alone is definitive proof of what is worse for you health.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
This is a great idea, I may have to try this out in the privacy of my hotel room next week.
comebackgirl -- you're in mental health, right? Any suggestions for a psychological activity/test to try on on said video, something that would challenge the brain just enough to help illustrate the deficiencies of an alcohol-impaired cortex?
Pardon my interuption, you dont "learn " to become an alcoholic. you may drink to excess to a point that the body/mind are dependent or in my case I was born an alcoholic. there was/is no learning to become one.
Some interesting articles on the subject of both hereditary and environmental links to
substance abuse
It has been quite a debate really, hereditary or learned, as it runs in families
and some experiments have been done on twins. I think a logical way to look
at it would be both influence a child.
From my personal experience I would say that for me and my sisters.
Honestly, the OP question is a no-brainer.....
I think a more difficult question to answer is:
Which is WORSE for your health: marijuana or potatoes? http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/potato.asp
Potatoes are more toxic...
Also, in their french fried or chipped form, they can cause severe health problems, particularly when mixed with marijuana.
Comments
Anyway, I'm sometimes of a mind similar to Bill Hicks; to paraphrase - "pot shouldn't just be legal, it should be mandatory."
And also to paraphrase my new herione from The Big C - "life is so precious, and it's too fucking short, so don't delay the happy."
I don't see drug or alcohol use around children as being different from abusing anything- gambling, too much TV, eating too much junk food etc. I grew up in a household with moderate alcohol consumption, occasional junk food binges and more TV in a week than I watch in a year today. Those had no negative affect on me. I don't think a kid would notice the use or abuse of alcohol or drugs so much as the behaviors that might stem from it. I think it's the behaviors that kids focus on. And I think it's possible for a parent to get good and bombed now and then and not have that be a negative affect on the kids as long as the parent has it together enough not to do anything appropriate while blitzed. I'm not advocating getting wasted around kids- it's inappropriate behaviors I would condemn or be critical of.
As a good friend once said, "Everything in moderation... including moderation".
To the question of which is worse? Depends on the person, I guess. But alcohol is extremely addictive. One doesn't have to be the stereotypical alcoholic either. The person needing that whiskey (or tipple of choice) every day to wind down/go to sleep, is addicted. Dependence has been created and so easily as alcohol is socially accepted. I bet most of us will know a good number of people like this too. Guess pot is sort of socially accepted but that would be more in the US and within a certain society than in other western countries.
the brain the child knows and depends on, learns from. The loss of that connection, relationship,
the meeting of the minds between parent and child. The loss of trust and faith if even for
that time of being blitzed as you call it. This is not pretty for a child. Do they adapt of course,
but the risks are immense, you are molding your child and your lifetime love.
Do children a favor learn to have fun without drugs and alcohol. Mixing the two
can really confuse and cause future bad behavior.
I guess it's knowing ones' limits. Some people have a single drink or a small toke and become total idiots or belligerent or whatever and other have a half dozen drinks and smoke a whole fatty and be quite pleasant and remain responsible. Like I said, my parents liked to drink a bit now and then and I think those were actually times they were doing me a favor because it lightened them up a bit. It really is about behaviors. At least that's my experience.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I got it from my energetic redheaded fiancee who posed this question to me. We argued about the mental illness thought that marijuana by itself could lead to some form of mental illness, I said it could not. We also spoke about whether or not marijuana could be addictive, she said yes, I said no. I looked at that scenario as to how much experience one had in smoking...she's far more experienced than I am. I can easily stop or go years without smoking and wouldn't miss it one bit.
Moderation is key in every thing people do and use...although even in moderately drinking and driving can lead to very dangerous situations while driving.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
did anyone notice the source of this link? now what would drug rehab centers and the national institute on drug abuse have to gain by promoting scare tactics that convince ppl that pot is addictive and dangerous? hmmmm...might it be hundreds of millions (probably more) in profits?
the conclusions are based on very small studies, which leaves one wondering which more positive/less negative studies were left out. i'm not saying it doesn't bring up a few points...though it mostly seems like a more clinical version of reefer madness :P
like others have already said, pot as with anything used in excess can potentially cause harm...it's all about moderation
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an experiment... video tape yourself blitzed bombed whatever you called it and see what
the straight eye sees. Now be in the shoes of a tiny child learning...
and yes my home too full of party times, it's where we learn how to have fun.
Also, if often enough, how we learn to be an alcoholic or pot head....
or go on to the use of harder drugs.
All I am saying is don't teach children this s is how to have fun because it can set
them up for trouble.
I know someone who was video taped (unbeknownst to him at the time) while quite drunk. Seeing the video later on led him to making some changes in his life. That was a good thing. That would not happen to me. The only problem I would have in being video taped in any state would be that I am self-conscious about being video taped. I never let myself get out of control, even in a different state of mind. I don't have a problem with being in a different state of mind if that's my intention. And no one around me does either. I know my limits and I'm a responsible person. If someone can't be responsible and know their limits, that might be a problem.
I find it interesting that you say you have parties where you learn to have fun and that through your parties at home you learned to be an alcoholic or pot head and have gone on to harder drugs. I didn't know that about you. That seems incongruous to other things you have said in other posts. Easy does it, Pandora.
While I shouldn't play along with your derailment, I will say....I agree that kids are sponges and pick up on pretty much everything a parent does....but I don't think the effects of marijuana, on an experienced user, are severe enough for a kid to pick up on. Unless the parent is actually smoking in front of the kid, chances are the kid will never know the difference. Maybe once they're taught symptoms and know to look for glossy/red eyes....but until then...what exactly do you think they're going to pick up on?
A lot of people really overstate the effects of MJ. It's not like these people become instant couch potatoes or lose their ability to parent as soon as they inhale. In fact, I would think that in some circumstances, it would be beneficial to the parent/child interaction....a relaxed parent with a slight buzz would be preferable to a bone-sober parent with blood pressure thru the roof....of course, this isn't the ideal coping method for stressed parents...but if it does the trick and doesn't harm or endanger the child, nor the relationship, then on occasion....whats the big deal?
One example..... In reviewing the footnotes, I'm seeing things like: "36 - Mason, A.P., and McBay, A.J. Ethanol, marijuana, and other drug use in 600 drivers killed in single-vehicle crashes in North Carolina, 1978Ð1981. J Forensic Sci 29(4):987-1026, 1984."
.....a 30 year old sample of 600 fatalities...smells like a cherry-picked study with loosely interpreted figures, to me. 6-11% of drivers in fatal crashes test positive for MJ, huh?....soooo for starters.....their figure is +/- 85%? 6 to 11%? That's quite the range......and it's also pretty damn close to the percentage of people who admit to regular use...Take into account that it can take weeks to eliminate THC from the system, and it's obviously not an indication of driving impairment, only that THC is in the system. It also doesn't define whether they were at fault in the accident....It even mentions that alcohol is present in some of those cases. So....I'm not sure how they can make their stats sound like a definitive correlation between driving high and fatalities, when there is clearly a lot of grey in those numbers.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Q: Which Is WORSE For Your Health: Marijuana Or Alcohol?
A: Think about a stadium full of Oakland Raiders Fans on drunk on Alcohol... versus a stadium full of Oakland Raiders Fans high on pot. I get the part where neither one of them is good for your health, but ask yourself, "Which on is worse?"
There... is your answer.
Hail, Hail!!!
Keep the delusion if you like.
The problem is it does both ...
harm the relationship and endangers the child but I have a feeling you won't be able to see that
so no need to discuss.
Another posted mentioned about a little buzz a little mellow I said that was fine except when children are involved, the straight eyes, this how it came up and yes they are anything but exclusive topics.
We will agree to disagree once again.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I mentioned mine saying there was also partying....drinking.
I never said I went on to be any of those things
up in a environment like that learns to have fun by by using substances
and could very possibly take that into teenage and adulthood.
This could result in future trouble.
My point of course, teach your kids to have fun without
a substance involved and refrain from including them in the times one gets bombed or blitzed
as you put it.
To the straight eye of a small child, a parent never looks responsible when drunk or high,
they look different, very different. What's wrong with Daddy?
In my opinion when it comes to a parent neither is better or worse,
neither should be used as a part of parenting....
if this was the case future generation might have a fighting chance against addiction.
Can you explain the red paragraph above a little more clearly?
I don't understand how you can say 'a little buzz a little mellow' is fine...but then say that 'straight eyes' will pick up on the difference, to their detriment? Is that not contradictory? edit: sorry, read that again...now I see the 'except'....
What's wrong with daddy? From MJ? I don't think so.....
Anyway, good to see you don't have me blocked anymore. I so enjoy our conversations :P
Good point.
I'm no expert, but I would say that a parents' examples can affect the way a person learns about intoxicants.....but a bigger factor is genetics....some people are definitely born with more of a predisposition to addiction than others.
comebackgirl -- you're in mental health, right? Any suggestions for a psychological activity/test to try on on said video, something that would challenge the brain just enough to help illustrate the deficiencies of an alcohol-impaired cortex?
substance abuse
http://neuroanthropology.net/2008/05/06 ... addiction/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... binge.html
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drinkers ... _Drink.htm
It has been quite a debate really, hereditary or learned, as it runs in families
and some experiments have been done on twins. I think a logical way to look
at it would be both influence a child.
From my personal experience I would say that for me and my sisters.
I think a more difficult question to answer is:
Which is WORSE for your health: marijuana or potatoes?
http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/potato.asp
Potatoes are more toxic...
Also, in their french fried or chipped form, they can cause severe health problems, particularly when mixed with marijuana.