I have to say that referring to internet links for info on this topic, when some of us are living it every day is quite the farce.
This could be said for any topic actually. Like I said before, parenting is not the issue here. It's about peer pressure.
Yeah, all kidding aside, it really is. I knew a girl who became a fifteen year old alcoholic because she was a PK (preacher's kid) whose parents never touched a drop and wanted to be cool around her friends. And I knew a kid who died in a car crash because he and a friend were drinking and driving and his mother was an absolute fundamentalist Christian teetotaler.
Well there ya go. Completely proves those claiming they "learn from their parents" wrong!
I have to say that referring to internet links for info on this topic, when some of us are living it every day is quite the farce.
This could be said for any topic actually. Like I said before, parenting is not the issue here. It's about peer pressure.
With all due respect, an individual's personal experience isn't really conclusive evidence of anything. That's why we have the studies in the first place.
You're excusing real life experience to studies? Really, now?
Pot is illegal... many kids get into the system by smoking underage...
every parents dream... wait nightmare.
Probation, drug testing, weekend jail, loss of license...
how about we just teach kids not to smoke and drink....
novel idea :fp:
If adults really cared about kids they would do this, set an example, set the very best
example for their children.
You don't get it. Kids do what their friends do, not their parents. And pot being illegal is one of the stupidist laws out there. It's a natural plant.
The peers who are using first are those who learned at home.
This couldn't be more wrong. :roll:
Well doesn't matter if its stupid or not when your kid gets busted. :fp:
Kids very much follow the example of their parents. If it is an accepted activity in the home
it is carried away from the home and becomes an accepted behavior in their social
life.
The best thing parents can be is consistence and have foresight.
Doing something illegal in the home like smoking pot sends a message not to respect laws.
Sends the message a child can experiment. And what stops them from then trying other drugs?
curiosity killed the cat.
Kids are much more likely to have DUI's if their parents smoke and drink in the home.
Studies prove this.
Why take a risk like that with your child's life and future?
Oh ... cause the parent likes to smoke pot and drink?
I have to say that referring to internet links for info on this topic, when some of us are living it every day is quite the farce.
This could be said for any topic actually. Like I said before, parenting is not the issue here. It's about peer pressure.
The peers who are using first are those who learned at home.
And who is not living it? I lived through it all...
and then some!
The farce is blaming your child's decisions on another child. Yes peer pressure is huge
so empower your child.
In fairness,the article researched the likelihood of drinking and driving as adults, not who starts using first. That being said, kids that grow up in a home in which both patents are alcoholics are more likely to start drinking at a younger age. The parents will absolutely have some influence when it comes to shaping kids' attitudes about alcohol and drugs. Peers can provide either a protective or motivating factor when it comes to using and are likely to have more influence when it comes to normalizing use/non-use. It's complicated though. So many factors go into it. A kid whose parents drink, but who excels in school or sports and whose friends don't use may never pick up. As i discussed in 2 personal examples, the opposite can be true. If there is true addiction in a family, the kids will be I
Impacted whether or not they ever see the parents drink or use.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
PhysOrg.com) -- It appears that when it comes to teen brain development, parents should be more worried about alcohol abuse than marijuana abuse. Two recent studies have been published showing that alcohol -- a legal substance (though not legal for teens in the U.S.) -- is considered more dangerous than marijuana, which is illegal in many countries.
One study has been published in the U.S., in the journal Clinical EEG and neuroscience: official journal of the EEG and Clinical Neuroscience Society (ENCS), and shows that alcohol has a stronger effect on teen brain development than marijuana. The other is a study published in the Lancet, offering the results of substance classification by a number of U.K. professionals, purporting that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana to individuals and to society. The U.S. study was undertaken by Squeglia, Jacobus and Tapert in a San Diego State University/University of California San Diego joint doctoral program. The study looks at teen brain development for its uniqueness, as well as for the effects that substance abuse has on the brain during this time. Because alcohol and marijuana are commonly used by high school students, it is little surprise that the study is interested in the brain abnormalities stemming from abuse of these substances. When the brain abnormalities were measured -- seen in terms of brain functioning and structure, cognitive tasks and quality of white matter -- it appeared as though alcohol had a great effect than marijuana. Heavy drinking was defined 20 drinks per month, and the abnormalities were detectable. In heavy marijuana users, abnormalities existed, but not to the same degree as those seen in alcohol abusers. Findings from the U.S. study, showing that alcohol use in teens causes more irregular brain function than marijuana, would seem to square with efforts in the U.K. to encourage new drug classification. In the Lancet, David Nutt at Bristol University, along with his colleagues, asked psychologists and scientifically or medically trained police to rank different substances according to how harmful they are. The study purports that experts rank alcohol (and tobacco) as more harmful than marijuana. In a list of 20 substances, alcohol came in at number five, tobacco came in at number nine, and marijuana/cannabis came in at number eleven. These studies are likely to add fuel to movements in both the U.S. and the U.K. to re-classify marijuana. Supporters of fewer restrictions on marijuana will undoubtedly point to scientific studies that show we already legalize less dangerous substances.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
how about we just teach kids not to smoke and drink....
novel idea :fp:
If adults really cared about kids they would do this, set an example, set the very best
example for their children.
Ya, because we know how well preaching abstinence works with teens. :roll:
Tell us pandora, do you practise what you preach? Were you always bone sober thru all of your years as a parent? If not, do you still care about your kids? or was that just your typical half-assed, inflammatory cheapshot?
And who is not living it? I lived through it all...
and then some!
This doesn't sound like consistence (sic) and foresight to me....
jeanwah - I agree with what you're saying - there is absolutely a personal aspect to this. Some of the info I posted, ironically, demonstrates how unreliable studies on MJ can be. It affects people completely differently depending on a list of factors. I think people deserve a little more credit than they're being given in determining what's best for them as ways to maintain their physical and mental health, relax, enjoy themselves, what's best for their kid, what their kids observe and how they interpret their parents' actions. Yes there are bad parents out there. But some people have trouble trying to keep separate their critical thinking process from their 'brain on drugs' conditioning/messiah complex.
But our friend went from the typical appeal to pathos, to using logos to reinforce questionable ethos, so I replied in kind (with the studies) It can also be risky to reply from a personal standpoint, in a public forum, when there are personal, career, and legal ramifications to implying oneself...finding someone else to make your point can help in that regard.
I think we're kinda pissing in the wind trying to point fingers about who or what is to 'blame' when someone forms an addiction. Parents and home life are definitely factors, but there are a million others.....we might as well cut to the chase and discuss free will vs determinism.
I have to say that referring to internet links for info on this topic, when some of us are living it every day is quite the farce.
This could be said for any topic actually. Like I said before, parenting is not the issue here. It's about peer pressure.
With all due respect, an individual's personal experience isn't really conclusive evidence of anything. That's why we have the studies in the first place.
You're excusing real life experience to studies? Really, now?
Real-life experiences aren't invalid, but they are tainted by many factors. The primary one being an incredibly small sample size (often just one, the individual experiencing it). There are myriad factors that could impact not only your actual personal experience, but your perception (and thus memory) of it. Studies attempt to control for those factors and use large sample sizes to make outliers more identifiable, among other reasons. For example, Jeanwah, how do you know your experience isn't the outlier? Even if you've seen 3 friends go through the experience in the same way, that still doesn't prove a pattern.
Plus, I've never heard of anyone having to go to the hospital or dying because they smoked too much pot. That alone is definitive proof of what is worse for you health.
I am not sure I can accept that. I mean how is it possible that pretty much every other type of smoke entering your lungs is bad for your health yet pot smoke isn't.
Plus it is worth noting I think that alcohol has saved countless lives. I mean back in the days before people understood the need for clean drinking water people who drank beer or wine has a much better chance of surviving things like cholera outbreaks. It was actually to the point where it was discovered that cholera was carried in contaminated water since in London there was an outbreak centered around a public water pump and a disproportional amount of people who weren't getting sick happened to work at a local brewery.
I meant OD'ing. Not long term affects... although I think it's a very safe assumption that drinking causes more damage to the liver than smoking pot does to the lungs. The think about pot is that you don't have to inhale very much to get high, where as you have to drink quite a bit to get drunk. Pot heads who don't smoke cigarettes don't actually inhale all that much smoke, and what smoke they do inhale don't contain all those delicious carcinogens that cigarettes have. I doubt there have been very many pot smokers who don't smoke cigarettes who have died of lung cancer.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Within a few minutes after smoking marijuana, the heart begins beating more rapidly and the blood pressure drops. Marijuana can cause the heart beat to increase by 20 to 50 beats per minute, and can increase even more if other drugs are used at the same time.
Because of the lower blood pressure and higher heart rate, researchers found that users' risk for a heart attack is four times higher within the first hour after smoking marijuana, compared to their general risk of heart attack when not smoking.
Effects on the Lungs
Smoking marijuana, even infrequently, can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, and cause heavy coughing. Scientists have found that regular marijuana smokers can experience the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers do, including:
Daily cough and phlegm production
More frequent acute chest illnesses
Increased risk of lung infections
Obstructed airways
Most marijuana smokers consume a lot less cannabis than cigarette smokers consume tobacco, however the harmful effects of smoking marijuana should not be ignored. Marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and because marijuana smokers typically inhale deeper and hold the smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers, their lungs are exposed to those carcinogenic properties longer, when smoking.
What About Cancer?
Although one study found that marijuana smokers were three times more likely to develop cancer of the head or neck than non-smokers, that study could not be confirmed by further analysis.
Because marijuana smoke contains three times the amount of tar found in tobacco smoke and 50 percent more carcinogens, it would seem logical to deduce that there is an increased risk of lung cancer for marijuana smokers. However, researchers have not been able to definitively prove such a link because their studies have not been able to adjust for tobacco smoking and other factors that might also increase the risk.
Studies linking marijuana smoking to lung cancer have also been limited by selection bias and small sample size. For example, the participants in those studies may have been too young to have developed lung cancer yet. Even though researchers have yet to "prove" a link between smoking pot and lung cancer, regular smokers may want to consider the risk.
Other Health Effects
Research indicates that THC impairs the body's immune system from fighting disease, which can cause a wide variety of health problems. One study found that marijuana actually inhibited the disease-preventing actions of key immune cells. Another study found that THC increased the risk of developing bacterial infections and tumors.
God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
What attitude/ opinion do I hold?
Please enlighten me....
You don't support the legalization of MJ.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
how about we just teach kids not to smoke and drink....
novel idea :fp:
If adults really cared about kids they would do this, set an example, set the very best
example for their children.
Ya, because we know how well preaching abstinence works with teens. :roll:
Tell us pandora, do you practise what you preach? Were you always bone sober thru all of your years as a parent? If not, do you still care about your kids? or was that just your typical half-assed, inflammatory cheapshot?
And who is not living it? I lived through it all...
and then some!
This doesn't sound like consistence (sic) and foresight to me....
jeanwah - I agree with what you're saying - there is absolutely a personal aspect to this. Some of the info I posted, ironically, demonstrates how unreliable studies on MJ can be. It affects people completely differently depending on a list of factors. I think people deserve a little more credit than they're being given in determining what's best for them as ways to maintain their physical and mental health, relax, enjoy themselves, what's best for their kid, what their kids observe and how they interpret their parents' actions. Yes there are bad parents out there. But some people have trouble trying to keep separate their critical thinking process from their 'brain on drugs' conditioning/messiah complex.
But our friend went from the typical appeal to pathos, to using logos to reinforce questionable ethos, so I replied in kind (with the studies) It can also be risky to reply from a personal standpoint, in a public forum, when there are personal, career, and legal ramifications to implying oneself...finding someone else to make your point can help in that regard.
I think we're kinda pissing in the wind trying to point fingers about who or what is to 'blame' when someone forms an addiction. Parents and home life are definitely factors, but there are a million others.....we might as well cut to the chase and discuss free will vs determinism.
If you are asking is hindsight 20/20 ... I would say of course it is. This something all parents learn because all parents make mistakes
it's good to be aware of what you can change to insure
the least amount of damage done, to the gifts we are given, our children.
I think you can agree with that.
God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
Most of those constipated politicians are seeking off and smoking in the bathroom or in their country homes. It's a beautiful plant heck even my dear old mother grew one the balcony for it's beauty, she loved the structure/design of the leaves. So did I as a teen, I thought she was crazy for growing it but it did look nice and bushy out there.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
God, it is just so STUPID to continue with anti-pot attitudes. :fp: Legalizing could do so much more good for society, while keeping it illegal does loads of harm. And it's solely this attitude that Pandora expresses, also held by a bunch of mentally constipated politicians that continues these problems. I find it really ridiculous.
What attitude/ opinion do I hold?
Please enlighten me....
You don't support the legalization of MJ.
really since when?
I have always, my entire life supported the legalization of pot...
I thought by now at age 56 it would be but
it was not until this past year or so,
when I hear some wanting the legalization of all drugs including very addicting
and highly dangerous drugs that I have rethought
my decision.
If that is the outcome I will say lets keep it medicinal under the guidance
of a doctor.
Plus, I've never heard of anyone having to go to the hospital or dying because they smoked too much pot. That alone is definitive proof of what is worse for you health.
I am not sure I can accept that. I mean how is it possible that pretty much every other type of smoke entering your lungs is bad for your health yet pot smoke isn't.
Plus it is worth noting I think that alcohol has saved countless lives. I mean back in the days before people understood the need for clean drinking water people who drank beer or wine has a much better chance of surviving things like cholera outbreaks. It was actually to the point where it was discovered that cholera was carried in contaminated water since in London there was an outbreak centered around a public water pump and a disproportional amount of people who weren't getting sick happened to work at a local brewery.
I meant OD'ing. Not long term affects... although I think it's a very safe assumption that drinking causes more damage to the liver than smoking pot does to the lungs. The think about pot is that you don't have to inhale very much to get high, where as you have to drink quite a bit to get drunk. Pot heads who don't smoke cigarettes don't actually inhale all that much smoke, and what smoke they do inhale don't contain all those delicious carcinogens that cigarettes have. I doubt there have been very many pot smokers who don't smoke cigarettes who have died of lung cancer.
Yes, good points PJ_Soul. In fact, the smoking aspect is becoming less relevant as potency increases and quantity of smoke needed to take in decreases. And marijuana (AKA herbal) vaporizers avoid even more of the toxic and carcinogenic by-products. Not to mention using it in cooking or marijuana butters.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Enforcement of marijuana laws is not healthy for children and parents and society, according to the statewide Children’s Alliance, which is endorsing Initiative 502, the legalization measure on Washington’s November ballot.
“Current marijuana enforcement is failing children and families: Decades of study have proven the unequal treatment of communities of color in the criminal justice system, especially in enforcement of marijuana policy, and Washington’s kids pay a terrible price for these persistent racial disparities,” said Paola Maranan, executive director of the Children’s Alliance.
I-502 would legalize, tax and regulate the growing of marijuana and its sale to adults. Colorado will vote on a similar measure this fall.
The initiative has drawn an unusual array of supporters: Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, former U.S. Attorney John McKay, Bellingham Mayor Kelly Linville, travel guru Rick Steves, and Charles Mandigo, former special agent in charge of the FBI’s Seattle Division.
But both candidates for Governor, Republican Rob McKenna and Democrat Jay Inslee, say they will vote against it. The initiative would not strike down federal laws against marijuana possession.
The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
By dint of a 2003 initiative, Seattle made marijuana possession its lowest law enforcement priority.
But a pot bust can have such nasty consequences as a student losing financial aid. In one case, a seasonal national park ranger — seeking a Park Service career — was denied admission into a law enforcement course after acknowledging that he took a toke on a marijuana cigarette months earlier at a party.
The issue of racial disparity has loomed large across the country in New York City.
Following a controversial “stop & frisk” policy, NYC police made more than 50,000 low-level marijuana possession arrests last year: 11,700 were of teenagers between 16 and 19. Thirty percent of those busted had no prior record.
An estimated 80 percent of those stopped, frisked and busted were African-American or Latino.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are trying to get the penalty lowered from a misdemeanor to a simple violation.
Enforcement of marijuana laws is not healthy for children and parents and society, according to the statewide Children’s Alliance, which is endorsing Initiative 502, the legalization measure on Washington’s November ballot.
“Current marijuana enforcement is failing children and families: Decades of study have proven the unequal treatment of communities of color in the criminal justice system, especially in enforcement of marijuana policy, and Washington’s kids pay a terrible price for these persistent racial disparities,” said Paola Maranan, executive director of the Children’s Alliance.
I-502 would legalize, tax and regulate the growing of marijuana and its sale to adults. Colorado will vote on a similar measure this fall.
The initiative has drawn an unusual array of supporters: Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, former U.S. Attorney John McKay, Bellingham Mayor Kelly Linville, travel guru Rick Steves, and Charles Mandigo, former special agent in charge of the FBI’s Seattle Division.
But both candidates for Governor, Republican Rob McKenna and Democrat Jay Inslee, say they will vote against it. The initiative would not strike down federal laws against marijuana possession.
The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
By dint of a 2003 initiative, Seattle made marijuana possession its lowest law enforcement priority.
But a pot bust can have such nasty consequences as a student losing financial aid. In one case, a seasonal national park ranger — seeking a Park Service career — was denied admission into a law enforcement course after acknowledging that he took a toke on a marijuana cigarette months earlier at a party.
The issue of racial disparity has loomed large across the country in New York City.
Following a controversial “stop & frisk” policy, NYC police made more than 50,000 low-level marijuana possession arrests last year: 11,700 were of teenagers between 16 and 19. Thirty percent of those busted had no prior record.
An estimated 80 percent of those stopped, frisked and busted were African-American or Latino.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are trying to get the penalty lowered from a misdemeanor to a simple violation.
Weird article -- doesn't seem like the title of the article goes with the body at all. Am I missing something? Didn't really even attempt to explain why Children's Alliance would support the legislation nor the title implicit point that criminalizing pot somehow impacts kids negatively. Other than the 16-19 year old statistic, but those are hardly "children" in any sense of the word I know.
Enforcement of marijuana laws is not healthy for children and parents and society, according to the statewide Children’s Alliance, which is endorsing Initiative 502, the legalization measure on Washington’s November ballot.
“Current marijuana enforcement is failing children and families: Decades of study have proven the unequal treatment of communities of color in the criminal justice system, especially in enforcement of marijuana policy, and Washington’s kids pay a terrible price for these persistent racial disparities,” said Paola Maranan, executive director of the Children’s Alliance.
I-502 would legalize, tax and regulate the growing of marijuana and its sale to adults. Colorado will vote on a similar measure this fall.
The initiative has drawn an unusual array of supporters: Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, former U.S. Attorney John McKay, Bellingham Mayor Kelly Linville, travel guru Rick Steves, and Charles Mandigo, former special agent in charge of the FBI’s Seattle Division.
But both candidates for Governor, Republican Rob McKenna and Democrat Jay Inslee, say they will vote against it. The initiative would not strike down federal laws against marijuana possession.
The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
By dint of a 2003 initiative, Seattle made marijuana possession its lowest law enforcement priority.
But a pot bust can have such nasty consequences as a student losing financial aid. In one case, a seasonal national park ranger — seeking a Park Service career — was denied admission into a law enforcement course after acknowledging that he took a toke on a marijuana cigarette months earlier at a party.
The issue of racial disparity has loomed large across the country in New York City.
Following a controversial “stop & frisk” policy, NYC police made more than 50,000 low-level marijuana possession arrests last year: 11,700 were of teenagers between 16 and 19. Thirty percent of those busted had no prior record.
An estimated 80 percent of those stopped, frisked and busted were African-American or Latino.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are trying to get the penalty lowered from a misdemeanor to a simple violation.
Weird article -- doesn't seem like the title of the article goes with the body at all. Am I missing something? Didn't really even attempt to explain why Children's Alliance would support the legislation nor the title implicit point that criminalizing pot somehow impacts kids negatively. Other than the 16-19 year old statistic, but those are hardly "children" in any sense of the word I know.
i can see where other than older kids losing students loans the article didn't go into much detail. although they didn't spell things out, it seems Children's alliance reasoning is based on basic common sense
according to the article a person busted for pot spends an average of 4 days in jail. it's a fact that a parent being jailed is tough on kids of any age. also many parents (if not most) will end up getting fired and be out of a job. so they can just get another one to put food on the table, right? (rotten economy & job market aside) that's not gonna be so easy...
considering a parent then has a criminal record (even just for possesion.) future employers can deny hiring them, landlords can deny renting to them, parents can be denied home or car loans, that parent will be denied a passport (don't know if by default it applies to their kid) so no family traveling outside the us. those are just a few examples...there's probably more
looking at the big picture it's fairly obvious enforcing pot laws has a negative impact on children, families & soceity
A pair of scientists at California Pacific Medical Center in San Francisco has found that a compound derived from marijuana could stop metastasis in many kinds of aggressive cancer, potentially altering the fatality of the disease forever.
"It took us about 20 years of research to figure this out, but we are very excited," said Pierre Desprez, one of the scientists behind the discovery, to The Huffington Post. "We want to get started with trials as soon as possible."
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
i can see where other than older kids losing students loans the article didn't go into much detail. although they didn't spell things out, it seems Children's alliance reasoning is based on basic common sense
according to the article a person busted for pot spends an average of 4 days in jail. it's a fact that a parent being jailed is tough on kids of any age. also many parents (if not most) will end up getting fired and be out of a job. so they can just get another one to put food on the table, right? (rotten economy & job market aside) that's not gonna be so easy...
considering a parent then has a criminal record (even just for possesion.) future employers can deny hiring them, landlords can deny renting to them, parents can be denied home or car loans, that parent will be denied a passport (don't know if by default it applies to their kid) so no family traveling outside the us. those are just a few examples...there's probably more
looking at the big picture it's fairly obvious enforcing pot laws has a negative impact on children, families & soceity
What's fairly obvious is that selling shit that's against the law to sell has a negative impact on the people selling and any offspring they've chosen to have. Whether there are enough people with kids selling pot and going to jail in order to justify the Children's Alliance dedicating time and resources to supporting it is quite less so. Seems there are a number of other things that are probably affecting children in much more notable ways that might deserve their time. My gut instinct is to wonder about what Children's Alliance is really all about.
Honestly I could give a shit one way or another about legalizing pot. But it's pretty fucking hilarious that you think a "Children's Alliance" supporting the legalization of pot is "common sense".
What's fairly obvious is that selling shit that's against the law to sell has a negative impact on the people selling and any offspring they've chosen to have. Whether there are enough people with kids selling pot and going to jail in order to justify the Children's Alliance dedicating time and resources to supporting it is quite less so. Seems there are a number of other things that are probably affecting children in much more notable ways that might deserve their time. My gut instinct is to wonder about what Children's Alliance is really all about.
Honestly I could give a shit one way or another about legalizing pot. But it's pretty fucking hilarious that you think a "Children's Alliance" supporting the legalization of pot is "common sense".
you hit upon the biggest reason for the children's alliance to support legalizing pot, once it's legal then these agencies can concentrate their full efforts on helping children & families with serious issues. they'll no longer have to use up resources to help children that are displaced simply because a parent was busted for possession.
according to the article: The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
as for selling(which you brought up) how many ppl (parent or not) will still be selling once it's available in stores?
the children's alliance is a Seattle based advocacy group with members from more than 100 social-service agencies. it's doubtful they used up much in the way of resources by issuing a press release saying they support a state ballot measure. it also makes sense they point out the racial disparities in the enforcement of pot laws because it's factual. there's no reason for you to question their integrity.
for someone that doesn't care one way or the other if it's legalized...why are you arguing about it?
btw, for whatever polls are worth.....the latest has Washington voters in favor of the initiative by 57%. the legalization initiatives in Colorado and Oregon are much closer
I believe that if pot was legized, quality ensured, and fairly priced in north america, all three countries would be MUCH better off than they are now. It's total madness that the governments continue to fight it, so much so that it makes me think there is something fishy going on, although I could be underestimating the incompetence of politicians.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I believe that if pot was legized, quality ensured, and fairly priced in north america, all three countries would be MUCH better off than they are now. It's total madness that the governments continue to fight it, so much so that it makes me think there is something fishy going on, although I could be underestimating the incompetence of politicians.
oh it's fishy alright...I began a dead-end thread a couple weeks ago that touched on several of the issues....I think most of it has to do with political inertia....it's like we need a full-stop and to start over with the war on (some) drugs. That inertia, involving all of the lobby interests wanting to maintain the status quo, using their influence on politicians, becomes a de facto conspiracy....not a set policy, but a wilful, mass neglect of the wishes of the people...as long as the people aren't making it a major election issue, there isn't much chance of changing anything.
The fact that the feds in the US handed over their patent on MJ (yes, they have a patent on MJ!) to a private pharma company may be the first step...but headed in the wrong direction (toward private control of a plant species' dna)....
The pharma companies have a lot to lose from legalization....alcohol and tobacco think they do too....the for-profit prison system is a big opponent, as well as police associations (tho they like to play both sides - retired cops in particular, support legalization).....then there's the religious right - the fear mongers...all of these groups either need to be told to f off, or weened off the drug war teat somehow, in order to move on...
you hit upon the biggest reason for the children's alliance to support legalizing pot, once it's legal then these agencies can concentrate their full efforts on helping children & families with serious issues. they'll no longer have to use up resources to help children that are displaced simply because a parent was busted for possession.
Right, pot laws impact kids. Never said they didn't. My questions are 1) whether they impact kids enough to justify a Children's Alliance making a point of supporting legalization; and 2) whether a radical revision to those laws would actually benefit children.
Also, if this is truly the biggest reason, then why do you say below that resources are not a concern for the CA when it comes to legalization efforts?
according to the article: The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
I appreciate the info, I'll have to do some research to see how this stacks up against the myriad other child-related issues out there. Also, I wonder how many of those arrests and convictions are of parents of minors? i.e., how much of that statistic really serves to justify CA's involvement?
as for selling(which you brought up) how many ppl (parent or not) will still be selling once it's available in stores?
This argument applies to everything that's ever been illegal, ever. The real question is what has the bigger negative impact -- legalizing a drug or prosecuting those selling it while it's illegal?
the children's alliance is a Seattle based advocacy group with members from more than 100 social-service agencies. it's doubtful they used up much in the way of resources by issuing a press release saying they support a state ballot measure. it also makes sense they point out the racial disparities in the enforcement of pot laws because it's factual. there's no reason for you to question their integrity.
I've already established why I think it's reasonable to question their motive on this topic. It just reeks of the almost cliched argument of "but what about the kiiiids" when it's questionable how much impact the topic in question (whatever it happens to be) impacts kids.
for someone that doesn't care one way or the other if it's legalized...why are you arguing about it?
Good question. For starters, I chose my words poorly. What I meant was that I'm undecided as to what's better for our society at this point. It may seem that my tendency is toward maintaining pot's current status in our legal system, which may be true, but only in part. For example, I doubt it's the boogeyman that some paint it to be and I question whether mandatory jail time is the right way to penalize it. On the other hand, I do tend to prefer status quo unless and until it is clearly and unequivocally established that such a radical change is in the best interest of society at large.
I have always, my entire life supported the legalization of pot...
I thought by now at age 56 it would be but
it was not until this past year or so,
when I hear some wanting the legalization of all drugs including very addicting
and highly dangerous drugs that I have rethought
my decision.
If that is the outcome I will say lets keep it medicinal under the guidance
of a doctor.
I have always, my entire life supported the legalization of pot...
I thought by now at age 56 it would be but
it was not until this past year or so,
when I hear some wanting the legalization of all drugs including very addicting
and highly dangerous drugs that I have rethought
my decision.
If that is the outcome I will say lets keep it medicinal under the guidance
of a doctor.
Here we are again, stifling freedom of choice.
Yes of course when we speak of deadly drugs, that is common sense.
Some more good info... unbiased
Comments
Well there ya go. Completely proves those claiming they "learn from their parents" wrong!
You're excusing real life experience to studies? Really, now?
Kids very much follow the example of their parents. If it is an accepted activity in the home
it is carried away from the home and becomes an accepted behavior in their social
life.
The best thing parents can be is consistence and have foresight.
Doing something illegal in the home like smoking pot sends a message not to respect laws.
Sends the message a child can experiment. And what stops them from then trying other drugs?
curiosity killed the cat.
Kids are much more likely to have DUI's if their parents smoke and drink in the home.
Studies prove this.
Why take a risk like that with your child's life and future?
Oh ... cause the parent likes to smoke pot and drink?
Impacted whether or not they ever see the parents drink or use.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
http://phys.org/news157280425.html
Developing Brains: Alcohol Worse than Marijuana
PhysOrg.com) -- It appears that when it comes to teen brain development, parents should be more worried about alcohol abuse than marijuana abuse. Two recent studies have been published showing that alcohol -- a legal substance (though not legal for teens in the U.S.) -- is considered more dangerous than marijuana, which is illegal in many countries.
One study has been published in the U.S., in the journal Clinical EEG and neuroscience: official journal of the EEG and Clinical Neuroscience Society (ENCS), and shows that alcohol has a stronger effect on teen brain development than marijuana. The other is a study published in the Lancet, offering the results of substance classification by a number of U.K. professionals, purporting that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana to individuals and to society. The U.S. study was undertaken by Squeglia, Jacobus and Tapert in a San Diego State University/University of California San Diego joint doctoral program. The study looks at teen brain development for its uniqueness, as well as for the effects that substance abuse has on the brain during this time. Because alcohol and marijuana are commonly used by high school students, it is little surprise that the study is interested in the brain abnormalities stemming from abuse of these substances. When the brain abnormalities were measured -- seen in terms of brain functioning and structure, cognitive tasks and quality of white matter -- it appeared as though alcohol had a great effect than marijuana. Heavy drinking was defined 20 drinks per month, and the abnormalities were detectable. In heavy marijuana users, abnormalities existed, but not to the same degree as those seen in alcohol abusers. Findings from the U.S. study, showing that alcohol use in teens causes more irregular brain function than marijuana, would seem to square with efforts in the U.K. to encourage new drug classification. In the Lancet, David Nutt at Bristol University, along with his colleagues, asked psychologists and scientifically or medically trained police to rank different substances according to how harmful they are. The study purports that experts rank alcohol (and tobacco) as more harmful than marijuana. In a list of 20 substances, alcohol came in at number five, tobacco came in at number nine, and marijuana/cannabis came in at number eleven. These studies are likely to add fuel to movements in both the U.S. and the U.K. to re-classify marijuana. Supporters of fewer restrictions on marijuana will undoubtedly point to scientific studies that show we already legalize less dangerous substances.
Ya, because we know how well preaching abstinence works with teens. :roll:
Tell us pandora, do you practise what you preach? Were you always bone sober thru all of your years as a parent? If not, do you still care about your kids? or was that just your typical half-assed, inflammatory cheapshot?
This doesn't sound like consistence (sic) and foresight to me....
jeanwah - I agree with what you're saying - there is absolutely a personal aspect to this. Some of the info I posted, ironically, demonstrates how unreliable studies on MJ can be. It affects people completely differently depending on a list of factors. I think people deserve a little more credit than they're being given in determining what's best for them as ways to maintain their physical and mental health, relax, enjoy themselves, what's best for their kid, what their kids observe and how they interpret their parents' actions. Yes there are bad parents out there. But some people have trouble trying to keep separate their critical thinking process from their 'brain on drugs' conditioning/messiah complex.
But our friend went from the typical appeal to pathos, to using logos to reinforce questionable ethos, so I replied in kind (with the studies)
I think we're kinda pissing in the wind trying to point fingers about who or what is to 'blame' when someone forms an addiction. Parents and home life are definitely factors, but there are a million others.....we might as well cut to the chase and discuss free will vs determinism.
Within a few minutes after smoking marijuana, the heart begins beating more rapidly and the blood pressure drops. Marijuana can cause the heart beat to increase by 20 to 50 beats per minute, and can increase even more if other drugs are used at the same time.
Because of the lower blood pressure and higher heart rate, researchers found that users' risk for a heart attack is four times higher within the first hour after smoking marijuana, compared to their general risk of heart attack when not smoking.
Effects on the Lungs
Smoking marijuana, even infrequently, can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, and cause heavy coughing. Scientists have found that regular marijuana smokers can experience the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers do, including:
Daily cough and phlegm production
More frequent acute chest illnesses
Increased risk of lung infections
Obstructed airways
Most marijuana smokers consume a lot less cannabis than cigarette smokers consume tobacco, however the harmful effects of smoking marijuana should not be ignored. Marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and because marijuana smokers typically inhale deeper and hold the smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers, their lungs are exposed to those carcinogenic properties longer, when smoking.
What About Cancer?
Although one study found that marijuana smokers were three times more likely to develop cancer of the head or neck than non-smokers, that study could not be confirmed by further analysis.
Because marijuana smoke contains three times the amount of tar found in tobacco smoke and 50 percent more carcinogens, it would seem logical to deduce that there is an increased risk of lung cancer for marijuana smokers. However, researchers have not been able to definitively prove such a link because their studies have not been able to adjust for tobacco smoking and other factors that might also increase the risk.
Studies linking marijuana smoking to lung cancer have also been limited by selection bias and small sample size. For example, the participants in those studies may have been too young to have developed lung cancer yet. Even though researchers have yet to "prove" a link between smoking pot and lung cancer, regular smokers may want to consider the risk.
Other Health Effects
Research indicates that THC impairs the body's immune system from fighting disease, which can cause a wide variety of health problems. One study found that marijuana actually inhibited the disease-preventing actions of key immune cells. Another study found that THC increased the risk of developing bacterial infections and tumors.
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm
Please enlighten me....
This something all parents learn because all parents make mistakes
it's good to be aware of what you can change to insure
the least amount of damage done, to the gifts we are given, our children.
I think you can agree with that.
Most of those constipated politicians are seeking off and smoking in the bathroom or in their country homes. It's a beautiful plant heck even my dear old mother grew one the balcony for it's beauty, she loved the structure/design of the leaves. So did I as a teen, I thought she was crazy for growing it but it did look nice and bushy out there.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I have always, my entire life supported the legalization of pot...
I thought by now at age 56 it would be but
it was not until this past year or so,
when I hear some wanting the legalization of all drugs including very addicting
and highly dangerous drugs that I have rethought
my decision.
If that is the outcome I will say lets keep it medicinal under the guidance
of a doctor.
Yes, good points PJ_Soul. In fact, the smoking aspect is becoming less relevant as potency increases and quantity of smoke needed to take in decreases. And marijuana (AKA herbal) vaporizers avoid even more of the toxic and carcinogenic by-products. Not to mention using it in cooking or marijuana butters.
Children’s Alliance: Pot enforcement bad for kids
Enforcement of marijuana laws is not healthy for children and parents and society, according to the statewide Children’s Alliance, which is endorsing Initiative 502, the legalization measure on Washington’s November ballot.
“Current marijuana enforcement is failing children and families: Decades of study have proven the unequal treatment of communities of color in the criminal justice system, especially in enforcement of marijuana policy, and Washington’s kids pay a terrible price for these persistent racial disparities,” said Paola Maranan, executive director of the Children’s Alliance.
I-502 would legalize, tax and regulate the growing of marijuana and its sale to adults. Colorado will vote on a similar measure this fall.
The initiative has drawn an unusual array of supporters: Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, former U.S. Attorney John McKay, Bellingham Mayor Kelly Linville, travel guru Rick Steves, and Charles Mandigo, former special agent in charge of the FBI’s Seattle Division.
But both candidates for Governor, Republican Rob McKenna and Democrat Jay Inslee, say they will vote against it. The initiative would not strike down federal laws against marijuana possession.
The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
By dint of a 2003 initiative, Seattle made marijuana possession its lowest law enforcement priority.
But a pot bust can have such nasty consequences as a student losing financial aid. In one case, a seasonal national park ranger — seeking a Park Service career — was denied admission into a law enforcement course after acknowledging that he took a toke on a marijuana cigarette months earlier at a party.
The issue of racial disparity has loomed large across the country in New York City.
Following a controversial “stop & frisk” policy, NYC police made more than 50,000 low-level marijuana possession arrests last year: 11,700 were of teenagers between 16 and 19. Thirty percent of those busted had no prior record.
An estimated 80 percent of those stopped, frisked and busted were African-American or Latino.
Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are trying to get the penalty lowered from a misdemeanor to a simple violation.
didn't include the pic & bit on pat robertson...it's in the link :wtf:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepoliti ... -alliance/
put that in your pipe and smoke it!
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
i can see where other than older kids losing students loans the article didn't go into much detail. although they didn't spell things out, it seems Children's alliance reasoning is based on basic common sense
according to the article a person busted for pot spends an average of 4 days in jail. it's a fact that a parent being jailed is tough on kids of any age. also many parents (if not most) will end up getting fired and be out of a job. so they can just get another one to put food on the table, right? (rotten economy & job market aside) that's not gonna be so easy...
considering a parent then has a criminal record (even just for possesion.) future employers can deny hiring them, landlords can deny renting to them, parents can be denied home or car loans, that parent will be denied a passport (don't know if by default it applies to their kid) so no family traveling outside the us. those are just a few examples...there's probably more
looking at the big picture it's fairly obvious enforcing pot laws has a negative impact on children, families & soceity
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Marijuana And Cancer: Scientists Find Cannabis Compound Stops Metastasis In Aggressive Cancers
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Honestly I could give a shit one way or another about legalizing pot. But it's pretty fucking hilarious that you think a "Children's Alliance" supporting the legalization of pot is "common sense".
you hit upon the biggest reason for the children's alliance to support legalizing pot, once it's legal then these agencies can concentrate their full efforts on helping children & families with serious issues. they'll no longer have to use up resources to help children that are displaced simply because a parent was busted for possession.
according to the article: The state recorded 9,308 misdemeanor marijuana possession arrests in 2010 which resulted in 3,259 misdemeanor convictions, with an average sentence of four days in jail.
as for selling(which you brought up) how many ppl (parent or not) will still be selling once it's available in stores?
the children's alliance is a Seattle based advocacy group with members from more than 100 social-service agencies. it's doubtful they used up much in the way of resources by issuing a press release saying they support a state ballot measure. it also makes sense they point out the racial disparities in the enforcement of pot laws because it's factual. there's no reason for you to question their integrity.
for someone that doesn't care one way or the other if it's legalized...why are you arguing about it?
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The fact that the feds in the US handed over their patent on MJ (yes, they have a patent on MJ!) to a private pharma company may be the first step...but headed in the wrong direction (toward private control of a plant species' dna)....
The pharma companies have a lot to lose from legalization....alcohol and tobacco think they do too....the for-profit prison system is a big opponent, as well as police associations (tho they like to play both sides - retired cops in particular, support legalization).....then there's the religious right - the fear mongers...all of these groups either need to be told to f off, or weened off the drug war teat somehow, in order to move on...
Also, if this is truly the biggest reason, then why do you say below that resources are not a concern for the CA when it comes to legalization efforts?
I appreciate the info, I'll have to do some research to see how this stacks up against the myriad other child-related issues out there. Also, I wonder how many of those arrests and convictions are of parents of minors? i.e., how much of that statistic really serves to justify CA's involvement?
This argument applies to everything that's ever been illegal, ever. The real question is what has the bigger negative impact -- legalizing a drug or prosecuting those selling it while it's illegal?
I've already established why I think it's reasonable to question their motive on this topic. It just reeks of the almost cliched argument of "but what about the kiiiids" when it's questionable how much impact the topic in question (whatever it happens to be) impacts kids.
Good question. For starters, I chose my words poorly. What I meant was that I'm undecided as to what's better for our society at this point. It may seem that my tendency is toward maintaining pot's current status in our legal system, which may be true, but only in part. For example, I doubt it's the boogeyman that some paint it to be and I question whether mandatory jail time is the right way to penalize it. On the other hand, I do tend to prefer status quo unless and until it is clearly and unequivocally established that such a radical change is in the best interest of society at large.
Here we are again, stifling freedom of choice.
Some more good info... unbiased
http://norml.org/component/zoo/category ... g-the-risk
www.headstonesband.com