Chicago Public School Teachers on Strike...

Options
1…1516171820

Comments

  • Posts: 24,524
    know1 wrote:
    About the only thing related to the sorry state of education these days that's worse than the schools is the parents.
    Ugh. I wish like hell I didn't agree with so much of your post, especially the quoted part up there, but I do.

    I grew up in an era where parents - many, anyway - actually were involved in their children's education, both at home and via the PTA and other activities. My father was a fixture at LAUSD meetings even after my sister and I graduated - he even taught ESL after he retired, because he gave a shit. I don't see that much now; with some exceptions, it seems that many parents use schools as their surrogate - watch over them, feed them, dictate morality, discipline them.

    Despite some wonderful, caring teachers whose desire to open doors of knowledge for us was unmistakable (even at my stupidass teenage time of getting high every morning before school) I believe I learned more at home, from my parents, than I ever did at school.

    Looking back, I'd say that that education has been much more valuable.

    School taught me skills; my parents taught me...well, they taught me. (and good!)
  • Posts: 1,538
    know1 wrote:
    There are good teachers, there's no doubt about that, but the system is bad and many teachers aren't so good. I wrote a paper in college about why teachers should have the highest paying jobs, but I no longer believe that. In fact, I would argue that they are a bit overpaid when you consider all the benefits they have and the 2-3 months off in the summer. The retirement system is so good that many are able to retire by age 52 or so.
    About the only thing related to the sorry state of education these days that's worse than the schools is the parents.
    How would you go about evaluating teachers?
    Tell me the difference between a good teacher and bad teacher without being in their classroom?
    Children are a product of their enviornment, WANTING to learn is ultimately their decision. Teachers, have no control over whether students do their homework, whether their parents create a culture of valuing education, or whether they come to school well-rested and well-fed. All of these factors influence student achievement just as much (if not more) than teaching.
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,651
    know1 wrote:
    I'm very much anti-school these days. Even though I do not have children, I have a degree in education and worked in the school system for a time. My mother was also a teacher and recently retired.

    The schools are falling farther and farther behind the times. They are too slow and immobile to adapt and are a dinosaur at this point. Around here, the school year seems to get longer and longer, but the breaks, days off, in-service days, early release days, etc. are more and more frequent. Kids rarely have to go more than 2 weeks at a time without getting some kind of break. There is always some lame excuse that lets them out or closes school as well. It just seems like nobody really wants to be there for any length of time.

    There are good teachers, there's no doubt about that, but the system is bad and many teachers aren't so good. I wrote a paper in college about why teachers should have the highest paying jobs, but I no longer believe that. In fact, I would argue that they are a bit overpaid when you consider all the benefits they have and the 2-3 months off in the summer. The retirement system is so good that many are able to retire by age 52 or so.

    I am also very anti-union and the demands in this strike are laughable. I think unions should be outlawed in general, but especially in the case of teachers.

    About the only thing related to the sorry state of education these days that's worse than the schools is the parents.

    I don't disagree with everything you say here but I have to ask, why is most of it negative input without offering any solutions?

    Also, I have to question the accuracy of some of the things you say here:
    --Most teachers do not get 2-3 months off-- much of that time is spend developing lesson plans and taking required continuing education courses (which take time and cost money), meeting with other staff and parents, etc.
    -- Teachers are not at all well paid compared to other professions requiring a similar level of education (and the continuing education courses needed to maintain a teaching certificate) that teachers are required to have.
    --Before becoming a book dealer I spent about half of my 42 working adult years working either as a teacher myself or working in other capacities in the educational system and I've yet to meet a teacher who retired as early as 52 years of age.
    --Kids rarely go to school more than two weeks without a break? Where did you work? Hollywood?

    And you say you are "anti-school". What does that mean? Shut the schools down?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Posts: 2,393
    Jason P wrote:
    show previous quotes
    The worst injuries I suffered were in intramural sports. In a pickup game of football, I was going for a deep pass and slammed into a parked car that was serving as a boundary while looking backwards for the pass. It took me out at the knees and I slammed face-first into the hood.

    :fp:

    Still, we both know this is not the solution. It's a nuance we can pick at and there is not an abundance of $60M high school stadiums. I'm guessing under 3 total, probably this is it. It's like picking away at all the luxury schools in Cali that are in trouble because they were finance prior to 2008. It's an issue and it sucks ... but it's not the problem.

    Back to the issue at hand ... the Democrat's War on Teachers. Oh, sweet irony!
    Of course that's one major ridiculous example, but the amount of money spent on formal school sports is astounding. I live down the street from Calvert Hall ... gotta go teach class but you should check out their sports stadia it's outrageous. What does sport teach kids anyway? To never question authority, to keep quiet about injury and play through it, and to break the rules of the game to gain an advantage. Anyway you are right democrats are really fucking this one up. Republicans can pretend like they wouldn't do the same.
  • Posts: 16,809
    RW81233 wrote:
    What does sport teach kids anyway? To never question authority, to keep quiet about injury and play through it, and to break the rules of the game to gain an advantage.


    Really? I bet some would ask the same question about art....music....etc.

    Sports teach kids how to work with others towards a common goal. It teaches kids about working hard and being a dependable teammate. It teaches kids about accepting your current role and doing it to the best of your ability while still striving for more. It teaches kids about exercise and staying fit. It teaches kids about respect. It teaches kids about how to win and how to lose.

    Plus, it's fun.

    Kids can gain a lot from sport. Now, does it go over the top sometimes and at some high schools, etc? Sure it does. But that is because the adults have made it that way, not the kids.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Posts: 2,393
    Cincy, we agree on this (see above). No parental involvement in high school sports would make the world a better place.
  • Posts: 19,289
    RW81233 wrote:
    Of course that's one major ridiculous example, but the amount of money spent on formal school sports is astounding. I live down the street from Calvert Hall ... gotta go teach class but you should check out their sports stadia it's outrageous. What does sport teach kids anyway? To never question authority, to keep quiet about injury and play through it, and to break the rules of the game to gain an advantage. Anyway you are right democrats are really fucking this one up. Republicans can pretend like they wouldn't do the same.
    Man, your high school must have had an 'effed up athletic program. :shock: :(

    Here is what I gleamed from playing sports:

    * Loyalty
    * Team work
    * Hard work, persistence, and the delayed payoff you reap from it
    * Integrity (never ever, ever did a coach ever suggest cheating ... football coach would punish us with bear crawls and crab walks for breaking the rules. Golf, as you may well know, relies exceptionally on rules and integrity. In swimming ... well, swimming is punishment itself ... not sure you can make it worse :think: )
    * The knowledge that 100% commitment can still lead to failure in the end ... and how to learn from it
    * Most important of all ... having fun playing sports
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,651
    Jason P wrote:
    show previous quotes
    Man, your high school must have had an 'effed up athletic program. :shock: :(

    Here is what I gleamed from playing sports:

    * Loyalty
    * Team work
    * Hard work, persistence, and the delayed payoff you reap from it
    * Integrity (never ever, ever did a coach ever suggest cheating ... football coach would punish us with bear crawls and crab walks for breaking the rules. Golf, as you may well know, relies exceptionally on rules and integrity. In swimming ... well, swimming is punishment itself ... not sure you can make it worse :think: )
    * The knowledge that 100% commitment can still lead to failure in the end ... and how to learn from it
    * Most important of all ... having fun playing sports

    I have to be honest here- the only thing I learned in school from sports was how to play "Sunshine of Your Love" on a tennis racket.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Posts: 16,809
    brianlux wrote:

    I have to be honest here- the only thing I learned in school from sports was how to play "Sunshine of Your Love" on a tennis racket.

    Yeah, but you own a bookstore, not exactly the target market!!! ;)

    All kidding aside...really? That is all you learned? Were you 100% invested in your sport or why did you do it?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,651
    cincybearcat wrote:
    show previous quotes

    Yeah, but you own a bookstore, not exactly the target market!!! ;)

    All kidding aside...really? That is all you learned? Were you 100% invested in your sport or why did you do it?

    Actually, Cincy, I opted to go easy on my response because I was trying to avoid sounding confrontational. To be even more honest, my first reaction was to remember that what I learned most in school sports was how the strongest and most aggressive were most capable of inflicting pain and injury on the weakest. This works fine and is necessary if your a wild animal but as humans we are capable of contributing to others and the world around us with our minds and creativity as well. That's why I'm a bookseller and not into a more predatory line of work.

    And I actually do like baseball- but that's more a form of physical poetry and a game of strategy than it is a sport.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Posts: 16,809
    brianlux wrote:
    my first reaction was to remember that what I learned most in school sports was how the strongest and most aggressive were most capable of inflicting pain and injury on the weakest.

    You learned that from tennis? :lol:
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,651
    cincybearcat wrote:
    show previous quotes

    You learned that from tennis? :lol:

    Of course! Always strike with the hard edge of the racket first! :lol:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Posts: 19,289
    brianlux wrote:
    Actually, Cincy, I opted to go easy on my response because I was trying to avoid sounding confrontational. To be even more honest, my first reaction was to remember that what I learned most in school sports was how the strongest and most aggressive were most capable of inflicting pain and injury on the weakest. This works fine and is necessary if your a wild animal but as humans we are capable of contributing to others and the world around us with our minds and creativity as well. That's why I'm a bookseller and not into a more predatory line of work.

    And I actually do like baseball- but that's more a form of physical poetry and a game of strategy than it is a sport.
    Besides football and wrestling, what other high school sports feature physical contact and send the message above? Wrestling is by weight so technique is more important then anything. Football is by class and it is a sport of strategy and technique ... practices were much more brutal then the actual game. Games were very fun :) ... two-a-days in August, not so much. :(

    The other sports we had were basketball, track and field, swimming, tennis, baseball, golf, cross country, soccer, volleyball ... I'm sure there were a few others but none match your description.

    Anywho, thread is getting derailed. Again, how about the Democrats War on Teachers?

    :corn:
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,651
    Jason P wrote:
    Besides football and wrestling, what other high school sports feature physical contact and send the message above?

    In high school? All of them. Except square dancing. But that sends a different message all together. :lol:

    But yes, back to war on teachers. Hardly a partisan issue. In this country, generally speaking, teachers don't get no respect. Period.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Posts: 16,809
    brianlux wrote:
    show previous quotes

    In high school? All of them. Except square dancing. But that sends a different message all together. :lol:

    But yes, back to war on teachers. Hardly a partisan issue. In this country, generally speaking, teachers don't get no respect. Period.

    They certainly play the victim well. It's almost like they are kidnapped, taken off to college to get the necessary degrees and forced into the profession despite all these terrible things about it.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,651
    cincybearcat wrote:
    show previous quotes

    They certainly play the victim well. It's almost like they are kidnapped, taken off to college to get the necessary degrees and forced into the profession despite all these terrible things about it.


    Oh, but it's not all terrible! Turning kids on to new ideas, leading them toward critical thinking, helping them pick up their own penny-- that's the reward!

    But here's a tip, beleaguered teachers: you can do much the same as a bookseller. But if you think teaching pay sucked... :lol:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Posts: 16,881
    RW81233 wrote:
    show previous quotes
    Of course that's one major ridiculous example, but the amount of money spent on formal school sports is astounding. I live down the street from Calvert Hall ... gotta go teach class but you should check out their sports stadia it's outrageous. What does sport teach kids anyway? To never question authority, to keep quiet about injury and play through it, and to break the rules of the game to gain an advantage. Anyway you are right democrats are really fucking this one up. Republicans can pretend like they wouldn't do the same.

    I think you need to re-think your position on what sports teaches kids. Athletics is the forum that gives some kids exactly what they need to 'make it out there'. Commitment, perseverance, dedication, becoming a team player, dealing with adversity, and so on, and so on... . Like it or not, it also creates an excellent setting where many leaders are developed.

    Just like one shouldn't paint all teachers with the same brush that has painted the few terrible teachers out there... one also shouldn't paint all athletic programs with the brush that has painted the high profile and rare 'scandalous' programs.

    The negative and very general statements you asserted is very disrespectful to coaches and athletes who tend to their sports just as passionately as teachers and students likely do in other contexts. Like athletics... math, music, and poetry isn't for everyone. It's appropriate to provide multitudes of contexts for students to discover themselves.

    As well, athletics can be very useful in helping establish school cultures and promoting school pride- it's a big part of the high school experience for many kids.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Posts: 2,393
    Alright to prevent further derailment here's a good article on the strike from Henry Giroux a pretty top notch academic in education: http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/11530 ... cys-demise

    As for sport I think those of you defending it so vehemently are missing my point. I said above, and reiterated it, that sport and physical activity can be a positive thing for students. Of course they learn all that flowery stuff most of you pointed out, but you're bullshitting yourself if you think that sport doesn't teach bad things as well. Hell at my high school my sister was a cheerleader and had to bake cookies for football players every Friday (presumably so she'd learn her place as a woman). Thus, my argument was the way that organized sport is currently practiced at many schools is to the detriment of student education. There are countless examples of places that vote for school athletic facilities to get more money while teachers and the educational spaces do not (http://voices.yahoo.com/go-tigers-rich- ... 76597.html). I was merely arguing for a student-centered, recreational sport system, run by students, coached by students, and organized by students whereby they become empowered to lead, make decisions, rules, and so on. This would allow for more funds to be funneled to the educational aspects of schools (train slowly re-railing).
  • Posts: 16,809
    RW81233 wrote:
    I was merely arguing for a student-centered, recreational sport system, run by students, coached by students, and organized by students whereby they become empowered to lead, make decisions, rules, and so on. This would allow for more funds to be funneled to the educational aspects of schools (train slowly re-railing).


    But why with athletics and not the rest of education...let's make music class student-centered, recreations, run by students, taught by students...

    Can do that with anything. I don't understand why academia always feels the need to belittle athletics.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Posts: 1,076
    cincybearcat wrote:
    show previous quotes


    But why with athletics and not the rest of education...let's make music class student-centered, recreations, run by students, taught by students...

    Can do that with anything. I don't understand why academia always feels the need to belittle athletics.

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPrQQx3wa1PfwWhvkteEE-fXnNP9tzX55meDq8ynjETatLjuQGFg

    We mock what we don't understand.

    Academics usually aren't very good at sports and athletes generally aren't very good at academics. Except me, of course. :D
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.
Sign In
Register

Quick Links

Categories