Which Is WORSE For Your Health: Marijuana Or Alcohol?
Comments
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Really? you wouldn't worry about a patient? or prescribe something for coming off weed,comebackgirl wrote:Withdrawing from alcohol can be very dangerous and fatal, but I'm never concerned about the effects if someone stops using marijuana. You can die from alcohol (and benzo) withdrawal, but not even from opiates. That's sort of scary. If something is that dangerous leaving the body it must do a lot of damage on the way in. That being said, I don't smoke, but I do have the occasional drink :think:
one who is highly addicted to it?
I have known a few people who sought help for just this, massively abusing pot
to the point it was harming work, relationships and health.
As part of their medical evaluation and treatment were given medication.
In fact two remain on prescription drugs still.
Seems to me when someone is addicted to any substance their is a reason for it
often untreated mental issues can be at the core,
probably the case for those two I know.
Any substance, their is a reason people get addicted.
Can be an addictive personality or the need to find a way for one to feel right.
Get right.0 -
No - I'm not worried about them physically. Withdrawal from marijuana is not physically dangerous, nor is withdrawal from opiates. People may feel like they want to die, but they won't actually die as they can with alcohol and benzo withdrawal. That's not to say people shouldn't seek treatment for addiction of any kind (including addictions to things like gambling which wouldn't physically have an effect). I was referring to the withdrawal effects in my post, not about the impact it can have on someone's life or the need for treatment. I'm in agreement with you on this.pandora wrote:
Really? so you wouldn't worry about a patient? or prescribe something for coming off weed,comebackgirl wrote:Withdrawing from alcohol can be very dangerous and fatal, but I'm never concerned about the effects if someone stops using marijuana. You can die from alcohol (and benzo) withdrawal, but not even from opiates. That's sort of scary. If something is that dangerous leaving the body it must do a lot of damage on the way in. That being said, I don't smoke, but I do have the occasional drink :think:
one who is highly addicted to it?
I have known a few people who sought help for just this, massively abusing pot
to the point it was harming work, relationships and health.
As part of their medical evaluation and treatment were given medication.
In fact two remain on prescription drugs still.
Seems to me when someone is addicted to any substance their is a reason for it
often untreated mental issues can be at the core,
probably the case for those two I know.
Any substance, their is a reason people get addicted.
Can be an addictive personality or the need to find a way for one to feel right.
Get right.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
http://www.drug-rehabilitation.com/mari ... index.html
for those who think pot is not dangerous in the least...
Scientists have learned a great deal about how THC acts in the brain to produce its many effects. When someone smokes marijuana, THC rapidly passes from the lungs into the bloodstream, which carries the chemical to organs throughout the body, including the brain. In the brain, THC connects to specific sites called cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and thereby influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.29
What are the acute
effects of marijuana use?
Marijuana's effects begin immediately after the drug enters the brain and last from 1 to 3 hours. If marijuana is consumed in food or drink, the short-term effects begin more slowly, usually in 1/2 to 1 hour, and last longer, for as long as 4 hours. Smoking marijuana deposits several times more THC into the blood than does eating or drinking the drug.30
Within a few minutes after inhaling marijuana smoke, an individual's heart begins beating more rapidly, the bronchial passages relax and become enlarged, and blood vessels in the eyes expand, making the eyes look red. The heart rate, normally 70 to 80 beats per minute, may increase by 20 to 50 beats per minute or, in some cases, even double.16 This effect can be greater if other drugs are taken with marijuana.31
As THC enters the brain, it causes a user to feel euphoric - or "high" - by acting in the brain's reward system, areas of the brain that respond to stimuli such as food and drink as well as most drugs of abuse. THC activates the reward system in the same way that nearly all drugs of abuse do, by stimulating brain cells to release the chemical dopamine.32,33,34
A marijuana user may experience pleasant sensations, colors and sounds may seem more intense, and time appears to pass very slowly. The user's mouth feels dry, and he or she may suddenly become very hungry and thirsty. His or her hands may tremble and grow cold. The euphoria passes after awhile, and then the user may feel sleepy or depressed. Occasionally, marijuana use produces anxiety, fear, distrust, or panic.
Marijuana use impairs a person's ability to form memories, recall events (see Marijuana, Memory, and the Hippocampus), and shift attention from one thing to another.8,35 THC also disrupts coordination and balance by binding to receptors in the cerebellum and basal ganglia, parts of the brain that regulate balance, posture, coordination of movement, and reaction time.11 Through its effects on the brain and body, marijuana intoxication can cause accidents. Studies show that approximately 6 to 11 percent of fatal accident victims test positive for THC. In many of these cases, alcohol is detected as well.36, 37, 38
In a study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a moderate dose of marijuana alone was shown to impair driving performance; however, the effects of even a low dose of marijuana combined with alcohol were markedly greater than for either drug alone39. Driving indices measured included reaction time, visual search frequency (driver checking side streets), and the ability to perceive and/or respond to changes in the relative velocity of other vehicles.
Marijuana users who have taken high doses of the drug may experience acute toxic psychosis, which includes hallucinations, delusions, and depersonalization - a loss of the sense of personal identity, or self-recognition.10,16 Although the specific causes of these symptoms remain unknown, they appear to occur more frequently when a high dose of cannabis is consumed in food or drink rather than smoked.
Marijuana's Effects on the Brain
When marijuana is smoked, its active ingredient THC travels throughout the body, including the brain, to produce its many effects. THC attaches to sites called cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells in the brain, affecting the way those cells work. Cannabinoid receptors are abundant in parts of the brain that regulate movement, coordination, learning and memory, higher cognitive functions such as judgment, and pleasure.
Brain Region Functions Associated With Region
Brain regions in which cannabinoid receptors are abundant
Cerebellum Body movement coordination
Hippocampus Learning and memory
Cerebral cortex, especially cingulate, frontal, and parietal regions Higher cognitive functions
Nucleus accumbens Reward
Basal ganglia
Substantia nigra pars reticulata
Entopeduncular nucleus
Globus pallidus
Putamen
Movement control
Brain regions in which cannabinoid receptors are moderately concentrated
Hypothalamus Body housekeeping functions (body temperature regulation, salt and water balance, reproductive function)
Amygdala Emotional response, fear
Spinal cord Peripheral sensation, including pain
Brain stem Sleep and arousal, temperature regulation, motor control
Central gray Analgesia
Nucleus of the solitary tract Visceral sensation, nausea and vomiting
How does marijuana use
affect physical health?
Marijuana use has been shown to increase users' difficulty in trying to quit smoking tobacco.40 This was recently reported in a study comparing smoking cessation in adults who smoked both marijuana and tobacco with those who smoked only tobacco. The relationship between marijuana use and continued smoking was particularly strong in those who smoked marijuana daily at the time of the initial interview, 13 years prior to the followup interview.
A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers do.41 Many of the extra sick days used by the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.
Even infrequent marijuana use can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, often accompanied by a heavy cough. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers do, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illnesses, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency toward obstructed airways.4
Cancer of the respiratory tract and lungs may also be promoted by marijuana smoke.4 A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced strong evidence that smoking marijuana increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck, and that the more marijuana smoked, the greater the increase.18 A statistical analysis of the data suggested that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers.
Marijuana has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens.42 In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke.43 It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form, levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells.44 Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs' exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco does.
Some adverse health effects caused by marijuana may occur because THC impairs the immune system's ability to fight off infectious diseases and cancer. In laboratory experiments that exposed animal and human cells to THC or other marijuana ingredients, the normal disease-preventing reactions of many of the key types of immune cells were inhibited.17 In other studies, mice exposed to THC or related substances were more likely than unexposed mice to develop bacterial infections and tumors.15,45
One study has indicated that a person's risk of heart attack during the first hour after smoking marijuana is four times his or her usual risk.46 The researchers suggest that a heart attack might occur, in part, because marijuana raises blood pressure and heart rate and reduces the oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.
Marijuana, Memory, and the Hippocampus
Marijuana's damage to short-term memory seems to occur because THC alters the way in which information is processed by the hippocampus, a brain area responsible for memory formation. Laboratory rats treated with THC displayed the same reduced ability to perform tasks requiring short-term memory as other rats showed after nerve cells in their hippocampus were destroyed.65 In addition, the THC-treated rats had the greatest difficulty with the tasks precisely during the time when the drug was interfering most with the normal functioning of cells in the hippocampus.
As people age, they normally lose neurons in the hippocampus, which decreases their ability to remember events. Chronic THC exposure may hasten the age-related loss of hippocampal neurons. In one series of studies, rats exposed to THC every day for 8 months (approximately 30 percent of their lifespan), when examined at 11 to 12 months of age, showed nerve cell loss equivalent to that of unexposed animals twice their age.66
The Body's Natural THC-Like Chemicals
THC owes many of its effects to its similarity to a family of chemicals called the endogenous cannabinoids, which are natural Cannabis-like chemicals. Because a THC molecule is shaped like these endogenous cannabinoids, it interacts with the same receptors on nerve cells, the cannabinoid receptors, that endogenous cannabinoids do, and it influences many of the same processes. Research has shown that the endogenous cannabinoids help control a wide array of mental and physical processes in the brain and throughout the body, including memory and perception, fine motor coordination, pain sensations,67 immunity to disease, and reproduction.68
When someone smokes marijuana, THC overstimulates the cannabinoid receptors, leading to a disruption of the endogenous cannabinoids' normal control. This overstimulation produces the intoxication experienced by marijuana smokers. Over time, it may degrade some cannabinoid receptors, possibly producing permanent adverse effects and contributing to addiction and risk for a withdrawal syndrome.69,70
The Science of Medical Marijuana
THC, the main active ingredient in marijuana, produces effects that potentially can be useful for treating a variety of medical conditions. It is the main ingredient in an oral medication that is currently used to treat nausea in cancer chemotherapy patients and to stimulate appetite in patients with wasting due to AIDS. Scientists are continuing to investigate other potential medical uses for cannabinoids.71 Research is underway to examine the effects of smoked marijuana and extracts of marijuana on appetite stimulation, certain types of pain, and spasticity due to multiple sclerosis.
Some clinical trials of smoked marijuana for therapy are underway, but the inconsistency of THC dosage in different marijuana samples poses a major hindrance to valid trials and to the safe and effective use of the drug. Moreover, the adverse effects of marijuana smoke on the respiratory system will offset the helpfulness of smoked marijuana for some patients. Finally, little is known about the many chemicals besides THC that are in marijuana, or their possible deleterious impact on patients with medical conditions.
How does marijuana use
affect school, work,
and social life?
Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared with their nonsmoking peers.22,47,48,49 In one study, researchers compared marijuana smoking and nonsmoking 12th-graders' scores on standardized tests of verbal and mathematical skills. Although all of the students had scored equally well in 4th grade, the smokers' scores were significantly lower in 12th grade than the nonsmokers' scores were.9
Workers who smoke marijuana are more likely than their co-workers to have problems on the job. Several studies have associated workers' marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers' compensation claims, and job turnover. A study among municipal workers found that employees who smoked marijuana on or off the job reported more "withdrawal behaviors" - such as leaving work without permission, daydreaming, spending work time on personal matters, and shirking tasks - that adversely affect productivity and morale.50
Depression19, anxiety19,20, and personality disturbances5 are all associated with marijuana use. Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana use has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana's adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.9,35
For example, a study of 129 college students found that among heavy users of marijuana, those who smoked the drug at least 27 of the preceding 30 days, critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning were significantly impaired, even after they had not used the drug for at least 24 hours.35 The heavy marijuana users in the study had more trouble sustaining and shifting their attention and in registering, organizing, and using information than did the study participants who had used marijuana no more than 3 of the previous 30 days. As a result, someone who smokes marijuana once daily may be functioning at a reduced intellectual level all of the time. More recently, the same researchers showed that a group of long-term heavy marijuana users' ability to recall words from a list was impaired 1 week following cessation of marijuana use, but returned to normal by 4 weeks.52 An implication of this finding is that even after long-term heavy marijuana use, if an individual quits marijuana use, some cognitive abilities may be recovered.
Another study produced additional evidence that marijuana's effects on the brain can cause cumulative deterioration of critical life skills in the long run. Researchers gave students a battery of tests measuring problem-solving and emotional skills in 8th grade and again in 12th grade.53 The results showed that the students who were already drinking alcohol plus smoking marijuana in 8th grade started off slightly behind their peers but that the distance separating these two groups grew significantly by their senior year in high school. The analysis linked marijuana use, independently of alcohol use, to reduced capacity for self-reinforcement, a group of psychological skills that enable individuals to maintain confidence and persevere in the pursuit of goals.
Can marijuana use
during pregnancy harm the baby?
Research has shown that babies born to women who used marijuana during their pregnancies display altered responses to visual stimuli, increased tremulousness, and a high-pitched cry, which may indicate problems with neurological development.54 During infancy and preschool years, marijuana-exposed children have been observed to have more behavioral problems and to perform tasks of visual perception, language comprehension, sustained attention, and memory more poorly than nonexposed children do.55,56 In school, these children are more likely to exhibit deficits in decision-making skills, memory, and the ability to remain attentive.55,56
Is marijuana use addictive?
Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they use the drug compulsively even though it often interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. According to the 2001 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, an estimated 5.6 million Americans age 12 or older reported problems with illicit drug use in the past year. Of these, 3.6 million met diagnostic criteria for dependence on an illicit drug. More than 2 million met diagnostic criteria for dependence on marijuana/hashish.57 In 1999, more than 220,000 people entering drug abuse treatment programs reported that marijuana was their primary drug of abuse.58
Along with craving, withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop using the drug. People trying to quit report irritability, difficulty sleeping, and anxiety.59,60 They also display increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately 1 week after they last used the drug.61
What treatments are available
for marijuana abusers?
Treatment programs directed at marijuana abuse are rare, partly because many who use marijuana do so in combination with other drugs, such as cocaine and alcohol. However, with more people seeking help to control marijuana abuse, research has focused on ways to overcome problems with abuse of this drug.62
One study of adult marijuana users found comparable benefits from a 14-session cognitive-behavioral group treatment and a 2-session individual treatment that included motivational interviewing and advice on ways to reduce marijuana use.63 Participants were mostly men in their early thirties who had smoked marijuana daily for over 10 years. By increasing patients' awareness of what triggers their marijuana use, both treatments sought to help them devise avoidance strategies. Use, dependence symptoms, and psychosocial problems decreased for at least 1 year after both treatments. About 30 percent of users were abstinent during the last 3-month followup period. Another study suggests that giving patients vouchers for abstaining from marijuana can improve outcomes.64 Vouchers can be redeemed for such goods as movie passes, sports equipment, or vocational training.
No medications are now available to treat marijuana abuse. However, recent discoveries about the workings of THC receptors have raised the possibility that scientists may eventually develop a medication that will block THC's intoxicating effects. Such a medication might be used to prevent relapse to marijuana abuse by reducing or eliminating its appeal.0 -
covered in bliss wrote:They're BOTH bad for your health..."...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”0 -
They both may not be bad either used in moderation, very individual.
Problem is both can be addicting in their own way....
This can be said for just about anything that brings pleasure....
even sex.
It's that dopamine, the brain reward system. 0 -
This is good information. Thanks for posting.pandora wrote:
When I said withdrawal from marijuana is not physically dangerous, I didn't mean to imply that smoking it does not have negative physical effects. My post may not have been clear, so I realize it may have come across that way.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
No I think it was clear and I took it the intended way I think...comebackgirl wrote:
This is good information. Thanks for posting.pandora wrote:
When I said withdrawal from marijuana is not physically dangerous, I didn't mean to imply that smoking it does not have negative physical effects. My post may not have been clear, so I realize it may have come across that way.
that no one is going to die coming down from a
pot addiction, true.
But I worry about the anxiety effect.
the reason why the person is addicted to begin with, in many cases,
self medicating.
This is a common way for people to treat anxiety issues with both pot and alcohol.
Anxiety attacks are some scary shit that takes people to the emergency room and
can happen in dangerous situations like while driving or caring for children.
Coming down may increase this as was mentioned in the article.
I have seen it in people, the fear, the pending doom, increased aggression,hyperventilation.
Anti-anxiety meds might keep those coming out of a pot addiction safer
and more comfortable.
I posted the article because too many think pot is harmless and yes of all the drugs out there
perhaps that is true,
but like you say some negative effects, I think, life changing effects.
I think if a person can choose, choose not to do anything and teach your
children to have fun without being fucked up, it will pay off in the end.0 -
Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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Ok good - I realized when I said "I don't worry about them" - that may not have been clear. I meant someone can stop marijuana use in an outpatient setting and I don't have to be concerned about their physical safety, whereas with alcohol they may very well need to be medically monitored. Alcohol is much more dangerous in that regard, but that's not to stay people don't struggle with stopping marijuana usage.pandora wrote:
No I think it was clear and I took it the intended way I think...comebackgirl wrote:
This is good information. Thanks for posting.pandora wrote:
When I said withdrawal from marijuana is not physically dangerous, I didn't mean to imply that smoking it does not have negative physical effects. My post may not have been clear, so I realize it may have come across that way.
that no one is going to die coming down from a
pot addiction, true.
But I worry about the anxiety effect.
the reason why the person is addicted to begin with, in many cases,
self medicating.
This is a common way for people to treat anxiety issues with both pot and alcohol.
Anxiety attacks are some scary shit that takes people to the emergency room and
can happen in dangerous situations like while driving or caring for children.
Coming down may increase this as was mentioned in the article.
I have seen it in people, the fear, the pending doom, increased aggression,hyperventilation.
Anti-anxiety meds might keep those coming out of a pot addiction safer
and more comfortable.
I posted the article because too many think pot is harmless and yes of all the drugs out there
perhaps that is true,
but like you say some negative effects, I think, life changing effects.
I think if a person can choose, choose not to do anything and teach your
children to have fun without being fucked up, it will pay off in the end.
People can definitely experience a lot of psychological discomfort and anxiety, as they can with caffeine, sugar, etc. My concern about using an anti-anxiety med is that benzos are more dangerous than the marijuana itself. Those medications can be really addictive and much more dangerous to detox from (a lot of treatment centers won't even take clients with benzo addictions for that reason). If someone is struggling with anxiety while trying to stop use, I'd rather try some other anxiety coping techniques.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
This very true and is moderation.brianlux wrote:Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature.
But its funny that little buzz that little mellow the straight eye sees
(straight as in not under the influence)
The worry for me is what children see and learn,
they are really straight.
Those little eyes take in everything from tiny on and mimic.
If one thinks their child does not know because one hides alcohol and pot use,
they are wrong, the child knows
and is much more likely to try both or to use both as an adult.
Is that bad?
Maybe not unless they get busted under age or have an addiction problem as an adult.
Both can totally ruin their young lives and the parents in turn.
talk about guilt...Post edited by pandora on0 -
maybe a good ole placebo?comebackgirl wrote:
Ok good - I realized when I said "I don't worry about them" - that may not have been clear. I meant someone can stop marijuana use in an outpatient setting and I don't have to be concerned about their physical safety, whereas with alcohol they may very well need to be medically monitored. Alcohol is much more dangerous in that regard, but that's not to stay people don't struggle with stopping marijuana usage.pandora wrote:No I think it was clear and I took it the intended way I think...
that no one is going to die coming down from a
pot addiction, true.
But I worry about the anxiety effect.
the reason why the person is addicted to begin with, in many cases,
self medicating.
This is a common way for people to treat anxiety issues with both pot and alcohol.
Anxiety attacks are some scary shit that takes people to the emergency room and
can happen in dangerous situations like while driving or caring for children.
Coming down may increase this as was mentioned in the article.
I have seen it in people, the fear, the pending doom, increased aggression,hyperventilation.
Anti-anxiety meds might keep those coming out of a pot addiction safer
and more comfortable.
I posted the article because too many think pot is harmless and yes of all the drugs out there
perhaps that is true,
but like you say some negative effects, I think, life changing effects.
I think if a person can choose, choose not to do anything and teach your
children to have fun without being fucked up, it will pay off in the end.
People can definitely experience a lot of psychological discomfort and anxiety, as they can with caffeine, sugar, etc. My concern about using an anti-anxiety med is that benzos are more dangerous than the marijuana itself. Those medications can be really addictive and much more dangerous to detox from (a lot of treatment centers won't even take clients with benzo addictions for that reason). If someone is struggling with anxiety while trying to stop use, I'd rather try some other anxiety coping techniques.0 -
Why yes, sir...that IS truebrianlux wrote:Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature. And, nothing wrong with one getting fucked up from time to time too. If I, in the privacy of our home, want to smoke a huge fatty, turn up some music and chill...whose business is that? And I'd say the same for libations.
Anyway, I'm sometimes of a mind similar to Bill Hicks; to paraphrase - "pot shouldn't just be legal, it should be mandatory."
And also to paraphrase my new herione from The Big C - "life is so precious, and it's too fucking short, so don't delay the happy."0 -
pandora wrote:
This very true and is moderation.brianlux wrote:Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature.
But its funny that little buzz that little mellow the straight eye sees
(straight as in not under the influence)
The worry for me is what children see and learn,
they are really straight.
Those little eyes take in everything from tiny on and mimic.
If one thinks their child does not know because one hides alcohol and pot use,
they are wrong, the child knows
and is much more likely to try both or to use both as an adult.
Is that bad?
Maybe not unless they get busted under age or have an addiction problem as an adult.
Both can totally ruin their young lives and the parents in turn.
talk about guilt...
I don't see drug or alcohol use around children as being different from abusing anything- gambling, too much TV, eating too much junk food etc. I grew up in a household with moderate alcohol consumption, occasional junk food binges and more TV in a week than I watch in a year today. Those had no negative affect on me. I don't think a kid would notice the use or abuse of alcohol or drugs so much as the behaviors that might stem from it. I think it's the behaviors that kids focus on. And I think it's possible for a parent to get good and bombed now and then and not have that be a negative affect on the kids as long as the parent has it together enough not to do anything appropriate while blitzed. I'm not advocating getting wasted around kids- it's inappropriate behaviors I would condemn or be critical of."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
hedonist wrote:
Why yes, sir...that IS truebrianlux wrote:Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature. And, nothing wrong with one getting fucked up from time to time too. If I, in the privacy of our home, want to smoke a huge fatty, turn up some music and chill...whose business is that? And I'd say the same for libations.
Anyway, I'm sometimes of a mind similar to Bill Hicks; to paraphrase - "pot shouldn't just be legal, it should be mandatory."
And also to paraphrase my new herione from The Big C - "life is so precious, and it's too fucking short, so don't delay the happy."
As a good friend once said, "Everything in moderation... including moderation".
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Completely agree.brianlux wrote:I don't think a kid would notice the use or abuse of alcohol or drugs so much as the behaviors that might stem from it. I think it's the behaviors that kids focus on. .
To the question of which is worse? Depends on the person, I guess. But alcohol is extremely addictive. One doesn't have to be the stereotypical alcoholic either. The person needing that whiskey (or tipple of choice) every day to wind down/go to sleep, is addicted. Dependence has been created and so easily as alcohol is socially accepted. I bet most of us will know a good number of people like this too. Guess pot is sort of socially accepted but that would be more in the US and within a certain society than in other western countries.0 -
No it is not the behaviors it's the absolute loss of a coherent brain, the brain they trust,brianlux wrote:pandora wrote:
This very true and is moderation.brianlux wrote:Isn't it true that you you can drink or smoke without getting "fucked up"? How about just getting a little mellow or a nice little buzz? Not all drugs have to be used to excess, especially if the user is a mature.
But its funny that little buzz that little mellow the straight eye sees
(straight as in not under the influence)
The worry for me is what children see and learn,
they are really straight.
Those little eyes take in everything from tiny on and mimic.
If one thinks their child does not know because one hides alcohol and pot use,
they are wrong, the child knows
and is much more likely to try both or to use both as an adult.
Is that bad?
Maybe not unless they get busted under age or have an addiction problem as an adult.
Both can totally ruin their young lives and the parents in turn.
talk about guilt...
I don't see drug or alcohol use around children as being different from abusing anything- gambling, too much TV, eating too much junk food etc. I grew up in a household with moderate alcohol consumption, occasional junk food binges and more TV in a week than I watch in a year today. Those had no negative affect on me. I don't think a kid would notice the use or abuse of alcohol or drugs so much as the behaviors that might stem from it. I think it's the behaviors that kids focus on. And I think it's possible for a parent to get good and bombed now and then and not have that be a negative affect on the kids as long as the parent has it together enough not to do anything appropriate while blitzed. I'm not advocating getting wasted around kids- it's inappropriate behaviors I would condemn or be critical of.
the brain the child knows and depends on, learns from. The loss of that connection, relationship,
the meeting of the minds between parent and child. The loss of trust and faith if even for
that time of being blitzed as you call it. This is not pretty for a child. Do they adapt of course,
but the risks are immense, you are molding your child and your lifetime love.
Do children a favor learn to have fun without drugs and alcohol. Mixing the two
can really confuse and cause future bad behavior.0 -
pandora wrote:lt.
No it is not the behaviors it's the absolute loss of a coherent brain, the brain they trust,
the brain the child knows and depends on, learns from. The loss of that connection, relationship,
the meeting of the minds between parent and child. The loss of trust and faith if even for
that time of being blitzed as you call it. This is not pretty for a child. Do they adapt of course,
but the risks are immense, you are molding your child and your lifetime love.
Do children a favor learn to have fun without drugs and alcohol. Mixing the two
can really confuse and cause future bad behavior.
I guess it's knowing ones' limits. Some people have a single drink or a small toke and become total idiots or belligerent or whatever and other have a half dozen drinks and smoke a whole fatty and be quite pleasant and remain responsible. Like I said, my parents liked to drink a bit now and then and I think those were actually times they were doing me a favor because it lightened them up a bit. It really is about behaviors. At least that's my experience."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I think sometimes that could do the trick!pandora wrote:
maybe a good ole placebo?comebackgirl wrote:
Ok good - I realized when I said "I don't worry about them" - that may not have been clear. I meant someone can stop marijuana use in an outpatient setting and I don't have to be concerned about their physical safety, whereas with alcohol they may very well need to be medically monitored. Alcohol is much more dangerous in that regard, but that's not to stay people don't struggle with stopping marijuana usage.pandora wrote:No I think it was clear and I took it the intended way I think...
that no one is going to die coming down from a
pot addiction, true.
But I worry about the anxiety effect.
the reason why the person is addicted to begin with, in many cases,
self medicating.
This is a common way for people to treat anxiety issues with both pot and alcohol.
Anxiety attacks are some scary shit that takes people to the emergency room and
can happen in dangerous situations like while driving or caring for children.
Coming down may increase this as was mentioned in the article.
I have seen it in people, the fear, the pending doom, increased aggression,hyperventilation.
Anti-anxiety meds might keep those coming out of a pot addiction safer
and more comfortable.
I posted the article because too many think pot is harmless and yes of all the drugs out there
perhaps that is true,
but like you say some negative effects, I think, life changing effects.
I think if a person can choose, choose not to do anything and teach your
children to have fun without being fucked up, it will pay off in the end.
People can definitely experience a lot of psychological discomfort and anxiety, as they can with caffeine, sugar, etc. My concern about using an anti-anxiety med is that benzos are more dangerous than the marijuana itself. Those medications can be really addictive and much more dangerous to detox from (a lot of treatment centers won't even take clients with benzo addictions for that reason). If someone is struggling with anxiety while trying to stop use, I'd rather try some other anxiety coping techniques.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
pandora wrote:
Really where in the world would you get an idea like that?g under p wrote:Which Is WORSE For Your Health: Marijuana Or Alcohol?Here is what I found:
Prolonged and consistent use of alcohol affects nearly every organ of the body, especially the gastrointestinal track, cardiovascular system, and central nervous system. Alcohol is a contributing factor in gastritis, ulcers, liver cirrhosis, pancreatitis, hypertension, muscle weakness, and memory impairment. Other symptoms include: Tremor, unsteady gait, insomnia, and erectile dysfunction. In pregnant women, drinking can lead to abortion or fetal alcohol syndrome and birth defects. Drinkers fall more and cause accidents. Alcohol is related to 55% of fatal auto accidents. Half of all murderers and their victims are believed to involve alcohol. Furthermore, alcohol leads to disinhibition of feelings of sadness and aggression which can lead to suicide.
Cannabis, on the other hand, increases appetite, dry mouth, tachycardia, euphoria, sedation and a slowed sense of time. It can also cause a chronic cough or throat problems due to smoking.
OK. These are the symptoms and consequences of cannabis and alcohol according to the DSM-IV, the bible of the psychiatric community. Now, that you have read them yourself, what do you think?
Alcohol is socially acceptable and legal for those over 18 or 21, people drink or over indulge out in the public in places like restaurants and bars. This means at some point they'll try to go home, even with all the admonitions against it, some of these less-than-sober folks will get behind the wheel of a car and put non-consenting, innocent others at risk because of their behavior.
_____________________________________________________________________
Since marijuana is illegal and not as widely accepted, people tend to indulge at home. Marijuana also tends to kill one's motivation to go do anything other than raid the kitchen. It helped me to fall asleep, I at times have trouble falling asleep. On some level, if you're high, I think you're a little more aware of it (and aware you're doing something inherently illegal), so you're more likely to keep a low profile.
Not saying people don't drive when they're stoned...just that I've observed it to be less likely for them to choose to drive when they're stoned than when they're drunk. Besides most who do drive stoned drive way damn TOO slow ESPECIALLY down here in Florida. I think this because at times I hear myself saying *Are you serious, you MUST be high!*
One more thing I've never heard of someone OD smokingweed but one can OD on drinking alcohol, right.
What do you all think, I don't believe it's weed but some may think it may lead to mental illness.
Peace
Of course that would not be weed but much harder drugs...
although I have known people with paranoia tendencies to really freak out on pot
and those with thyroid problems actually have psychotic type episodes
that need medical attention. Not everyone can smoke pot without physical side effects
or even enjoy it due to paranoia.
My idea is the bolded red there can pretty much cover most any substance and the effects
different on the individual body of course. Keep in mind moderation is the best policy...
common sense.
I got it from my energetic redheaded fiancee who posed this question to me. We argued about the mental illness thought that marijuana by itself could lead to some form of mental illness, I said it could not. We also spoke about whether or not marijuana could be addictive, she said yes, I said no. I looked at that scenario as to how much experience one had in smoking...she's far more experienced than I am. I can easily stop or go years without smoking and wouldn't miss it one bit.
Moderation is key in every thing people do and use...although even in moderately drinking and driving can lead to very dangerous situations while driving.
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
pandora wrote:
did anyone notice the source of this link? now what would drug rehab centers and the national institute on drug abuse have to gain by promoting scare tactics that convince ppl that pot is addictive and dangerous? hmmmm...might it be hundreds of millions (probably more) in profits?
the conclusions are based on very small studies, which leaves one wondering which more positive/less negative studies were left out. i'm not saying it doesn't bring up a few points...though it mostly seems like a more clinical version of reefer madness :P
like others have already said, pot as with anything used in excess can potentially cause harm...it's all about moderation*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
angels share laughter
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