Disney sued over headscarf.....

245

Comments

  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,067
    redrock wrote:
    Zoso wrote:
    I'm assuming you're not muslim.. you would be outraged if your employer told you couldn't go to church on sunday's as you have to work.. or restricted your religion somehow? so why not put yourself in her shoes.. she is being discriminated against based on her religion pure and simple..

    The hijab is not a religious dictate, so it would be difficult say she is being discriminated against based on religion. On the other hand, Sikhs MUST wear a Dastar (turban) - it's mandated by their religion. Asking an observant Sikh to remove his turban would be discrimination.
    That's absolute nonsense - the hijab is a religious dictate. I'm not sure what to make of this story, because I don't know much about Disney's history. For example would they bar/have they barred a Jewish man from wearing a yarmulke or a Sikh from wearing a Dastar? I'm not an expert so I will withhold making a strong opinion on the case. However, if you do think that asking an observant Sikh to remove his turban would be classified as discrimination, then it is sheer lunacy to think it would not be discrimination as well to ask a Muslim woman to remove her hijab on the sole basis that your interpretation of Islamic law is correct.
  • Zoso
    Zoso Posts: 6,425
    redrock wrote:
    Zoso wrote:
    I'm assuming you're not muslim.. you would be outraged if your employer told you couldn't go to church on sunday's as you have to work.. or restricted your religion somehow? so why not put yourself in her shoes.. she is being discriminated against based on her religion pure and simple..

    The hijab is not a religious dictate, so it would be difficult say she is being discriminated against based on religion. On the other hand, Sikhs MUST wear a Dastar (turban) - it's mandated by their religion. Asking an observant Sikh to remove his turban would be discrimination.

    Whilst I do believe this lady has the perfect right to 'preserve her modesty', she did go into a job knowing about the very strict dress code (as some said, down to facial hair, hairstyles, etc.) that Disney have. She seemed to be OK with it for 2 1/2 years as well. Disney offered an alternative head covering (keeping the modesty bit) which seems to cover the same areas as the hijab and complies with their dress code. She may not like it, but it doesn't look anymore stupid than most of what the employees there wear (guess their terms 'cast members', 'on-stage', 'costume' says it all!). I really don't believe that Disney are stopping her 'being a Muslim'.

    Should she not be working for a firm/company with strict dress (dressing up?) code, I would agree that she should be able to wear a hijab as long as it met health and safety regulations.

    hijab is absolutely a religious dicate.
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  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    definition of hijab from wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab
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  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Big fuckin deal !! who cares what hijab is...she should find her self a job that lets her where her ..hijab
    and I don't want to hear about "it's religious thing" over half the people on this forum have stated that they don't believe a cross should be displayed on public property but wearing a ..jihab is o.k :? I'm calling bullshit !
    with all the non believers on here that blame everything on religion all the sudden this jihab crap is o.k ? :problem:

    Godfather.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Why wasn't this addressed when she was interviewed / hired?

    Either she should've made it known it was a requirement for her (assume she went to the interview with it on or at the very least mentioned its importance?), or they should've made their stance clear.
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,218
    BinauralJam wrote:
    Disney has a bunch of bizarre rules for employees, for instance you cant have a mustache, even though Walt did :crazy:

    Too many rides to compete with:
    free_mustache_rides_sticker-p217891798275163356envb3_400.jpg
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  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Zoso wrote:

    hijab is absolutely a religious dicate.

    I don't want to get into religious discussions here (and all the semantics about what the prophet meant or not) but it's definitely not a dictate (ie required by the religious laws such as the Dastar). The Koran requires 'modesty' and gives guidance as to what modesty is. Nowhere does it say women HAVE to wear the hijab (or other more 'covering' apparel). Women (or the women's men) choose to interpret it that way. Which is absolutely fine. There have been a number of cases of women suing their employer for same reason but each time lost as it was not deemed to discriminate on religious grounds as it is not a specific religious requirement/law.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,067
    Godfather. wrote:
    Big fuckin deal !! who cares what hijab is...she should find her self a job that lets her where her ..hijab
    and I don't want to hear about "it's religious thing" over half the people on this forum have stated that they don't believe a cross should be displayed on public property but wearing a ..jihab is o.k :? I'm calling bullshit !
    with all the non believers on here that blame everything on religion all the sudden this jihab crap is o.k ? :problem:

    Godfather.
    Hmm...
    A few thoughts:
    1. You begin your post by basically declaring that you have no interest in learning where the grievance of someone else might stem from, and would rather speak from a position of ignorance as regards the topic of hijab.
    2. You take a stance against her, but then make it incredibly apparent (so much so, I almost thought you were joking) that your opinion is completely reactionary, and stems from people's disagreement with public property displaying of the cross.
    3. By not defending the analogy, it appears that you're speaking from a position of emotion rather than reason, which hurts your overall point.
    4. It's "hijab" not "jihab." You spelled it correctly earlier in your post, but as it appears you are speaking from a position of rage, you seemed to have forgotten its correct spelling only a sentence or two below it. Misspelling something once can be a typo, twice is a clear disregard for accuracy, and considering that it is a five-letter word and the subject of what the dispute is about, I would hope you'd strive to at least try to gain some insight into the topic.
  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    BinauralJam wrote:
    Disney has a bunch of bizarre rules for employees, for instance you cant have a mustache, even though Walt did :crazy:

    Too many rides to compete with:
    free_mustache_rides_sticker-p217891798275163356envb3_400.jpg



    Walt had Wisdom beyond his years :ugeek:
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,975
    hedonist wrote:
    Why wasn't this addressed when she was interviewed / hired?

    Either she should've made it known it was a requirement for her (assume she went to the interview with it on or at the very least mentioned its importance?), or they should've made their stance clear.

    I am sure it was covered. This isn't new to Disney.
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  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,067
    redrock wrote:
    Zoso wrote:

    hijab is absolutely a religious dicate.

    I don't want to get into religious discussions here (and all the semantics about what the prophet meant or not) but it's definitely not a dictate (ie required by the religious laws such as the Dastar). The Koran requires 'modesty' and gives guidance as to what modesty is. Nowhere does it say women HAVE to wear the hijab (or other more 'covering' apparel). Women (or the women's men) choose to interpret it that way. Which is absolutely fine. There have been a number of cases of women suing their employer for same reason but each time lost as it was not deemed to discriminate on religious grounds as it is not a specific religious requirement/law.
    That's nonsense. The most eminent Islamic scholars for centuries have maintained that it is a religious requirement, and provided ample evidence using the Qur'an and hadith. The way you say that 'some choose to interpret it that way' while making your interpretation absolute and surely the correct one speaks volumes as to the knowledge you lack in Islamic law.
    I also am not aware of any cases raised by hijabi women in Shari`ah courts that lost due to it not being a religious requirement. Perhaps you can shed some light for us.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I am sure it was covered.
    I see what you did there 8-)
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    fuck wrote:
    I also am not aware of any cases raised by hijabi women in Shari`ah courts that lost due to it not being a religious requirement. Perhaps you can shed some light for us.
    Since this thread is about a non-muslim country I was under the impression we were talking about the legal system of such country (eg US or even similar countries such as UK, France, etc.) Sharia courts will usually deal with civil cases only - within the community. They would not have any impact on lawsuits such as this one or the ones I have referred to.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    fuck wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    Big fuckin deal !! who cares what hijab is...she should find her self a job that lets her where her ..hijab
    and I don't want to hear about "it's religious thing" over half the people on this forum have stated that they don't believe a cross should be displayed on public property but wearing a ..jihab is o.k :? I'm calling bullshit !
    with all the non believers on here that blame everything on religion all the sudden this jihab crap is o.k ? :problem:

    Godfather.
    Hmm...
    A few thoughts:
    1. You begin your post by basically declaring that you have no interest in learning where the grievance of someone else might stem from, and would rather speak from a position of ignorance as regards the topic of hijab.
    2. You take a stance against her, but then make it incredibly apparent (so much so, I almost thought you were joking) that your opinion is completely reactionary, and stems from people's disagreement with public property displaying of the cross.
    3. By not defending the analogy, it appears that you're speaking from a position of emotion rather than reason, which hurts your overall point.
    4. It's "hijab" not "jihab." You spelled it correctly earlier in your post, but as it appears you are speaking from a position of rage, you seemed to have forgotten its correct spelling only a sentence or two below it. Misspelling something once can be a typo, twice is a clear disregard for accuracy, and considering that it is a five-letter word and the subject of what the dispute is about, I would hope you'd strive to at least try to gain some insight into the topic.
    nice post fuck...very well worded and great attention to detail but as you said there is....some rage involved
    because I as a guy that was born here I have to read and hear about people coming here and demanding this and that...it's real simple ..if they can't adjust their lives to a country they chose to come to for what ever reason then maybe they should just go back home, IT'S NOT UP TO ME/US TO HAVE TO ADJUST TO THEM..
    they came here, learn the rules learn the language or go home.

    Godfather.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,436
    I wonder if anyone in the Jedi Church has ever worked for Disney?
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  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Godfather. wrote:
    ....they don't believe a cross should be displayed ..

    Taking this cross thing in this context, the discrimation cases (that I know of) brought against employers who 'banned' employees wearing a cross were lost by said employees. The courts deemed this banning was part of the dress code/uniform (eg. no jewellery except wedding band, only plain stud earrings, etc.) and not discriminating against one's religion. They also deemed that the dress code was part of the contract, signed by both parties, with the employees agreeing to the terms and conditions.

    I would have thought this case would be similar.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    I'm going to side with Disney on ths one.
    She was given all sorts of alternative options, to which she declined. Like, she can still wear the scarf... under the big Minnie Mouse head, right?
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  • usamamasan1
    usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    employers watch out. this one has all the makings of a setup. ACLU my ass.
  • sparky_fry
    sparky_fry Posts: 760
    Godfather. wrote:
    fuck wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    Big fuckin deal !! who cares what hijab is...she should find her self a job that lets her where her ..hijab
    and I don't want to hear about "it's religious thing" over half the people on this forum have stated that they don't believe a cross should be displayed on public property but wearing a ..jihab is o.k :? I'm calling bullshit !
    with all the non believers on here that blame everything on religion all the sudden this jihab crap is o.k ? :problem:

    Godfather.
    Hmm...
    A few thoughts:
    1. You begin your post by basically declaring that you have no interest in learning where the grievance of someone else might stem from, and would rather speak from a position of ignorance as regards the topic of hijab.
    2. You take a stance against her, but then make it incredibly apparent (so much so, I almost thought you were joking) that your opinion is completely reactionary, and stems from people's disagreement with public property displaying of the cross.
    3. By not defending the analogy, it appears that you're speaking from a position of emotion rather than reason, which hurts your overall point.
    4. It's "hijab" not "jihab." You spelled it correctly earlier in your post, but as it appears you are speaking from a position of rage, you seemed to have forgotten its correct spelling only a sentence or two below it. Misspelling something once can be a typo, twice is a clear disregard for accuracy, and considering that it is a five-letter word and the subject of what the dispute is about, I would hope you'd strive to at least try to gain some insight into the topic.
    nice post fuck...very well worded and great attention to detail but as you said there is....some rage involved
    because I as a guy that was born here I have to read and hear about people coming here and demanding this and that...it's real simple ..if they can't adjust their lives to a country they chose to come to for what ever reason then maybe they should just go back home, IT'S NOT UP TO ME/US TO HAVE TO ADJUST TO THEM..
    they came here, learn the rules learn the language or go home.

    Godfather.


    I completely agree. It seems more and more we seem to defend other people's traditions while our own gets washed down the drain. I'm all for equal rights, but i think its better to help people adjust to our society, not our society adjust for them
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    :thumbup: ;)

    Godfather.

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